Question about relations between hyenas/cats/bears from Jay Leno

Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

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Mar 1, 2008, 4:39:42 AM3/1/08

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Tonight, Jay Leno had some animals on his show, including hyenas.
The animal expert said that hyenas are more closely related to
bears than to cats. That surprised me, so I went online, found:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16503281>
converted the text into part of a cladogram, then spliced that in with
<http://www.tolweb.org/Carnivora/15971>
to yield this cladogram:

Did I do it right? If so, either the animal expert was incorrect,
or I mis-heard him. Did anyone else here watch the show and hear
that particular claim?

Bob Reasoner

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Mar 1, 2008, 5:18:46 AM3/1/08

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Question about relations between hyenas/cats/bears from Jay Leno

Group: talk.origins Date: Sat, Mar 1, 2008, 1:39am (EST-3) From:
rem...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)

------

Robert Maas,

I didn't see that Leno program. If indeed the "expert" said hyenas are
more closely related to bears than to cats I think the "expert" was
wrong. I remember that hyenas used to be described as "cat-like dogs"
but are now described as "dog-like cats".

Did you do the cladogram right? Looks right to me but cladograms are
still something of a mystery to me.

Bob Reasoner

KlausH

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Mar 1, 2008, 8:56:18 AM3/1/08

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Yes, you have it right. Hyenas are in the cat/weasel branch of
carnivores; bears are in the bear/dog branch.

mel turner

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Mar 1, 2008, 9:24:47 AM3/1/08

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"KlausH" <badgerbad...@badger.net> wrote in message
news:1gdyj.59574$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

You mean, the cat/civet/mongoose branch of the carnivores.
Weasels are part of the dog/bear/raccoon/seal branch.

cheers

John Harshman

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Mar 1, 2008, 10:44:48 AM3/1/08

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Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote:

> Tonight, Jay Leno had some animals on his show, including hyenas.
> The animal expert said that hyenas are more closely related to
> bears than to cats. That surprised me, so I went online, found:
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16503281>
> converted the text into part of a cladogram, then spliced that in with
> <http://www.tolweb.org/Carnivora/15971>
> to yield this cladogram:
>
> Carnivora
> |--Feliformia
> | |(where do Felidae (cats) fit within Feliformia?)
> | |--Hyaenidae
> | | |--Proteles cristatus (aardwolf)
> | | `--+--Crocuta crocuta (spotted hyena)
> | | `--+--Parahyaena brunnea (brown hyena)
> | | `--Hyaena hyaena (striped hyena)
> | `--+-- Herpestidae#1
> | |-- Herpestidae#2
> | `-- Cryptoprocta ferox (mis-classified within Viverridae)
> `--Caniformia
> |--Canidae (wolves, dogs, coyotes, foxes, jackals)
> `--Ursidae (bears and giant panda)
>
> Did I do it right?

Yes.

The TOL website really needs an update, but here's a good reference:
Flynn, J. J., J. A. Finarelli, S. Zehr, J. Hsu, and M. A. Nedbal. 2005.
Molecular phylogeny of the Carnivora (Mammalia): Assessing the impact of
increased sampling on resolving enigmatic relationships. Syst. Biol.
54:317-337.

> If so, either the animal expert was incorrect,
> or I mis-heard him. Did anyone else here watch the show and hear
> that particular claim?

I didn't watch. But the statement you remember is wrong, for whatever
reason.

Bob Reasoner

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Mar 1, 2008, 10:02:23 PM3/1/08

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Robert Maas,

Actually, hyenas are not cats anymore than the "sabre-tooth tiger" was a
tiger. However, they both can be found on the "branch" of carnivores
that include cats and other cat-like animals.

Bob Reasoner

KlausH

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Mar 2, 2008, 1:38:50 AM3/2/08

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Yup, weasels are caniformia; I stand corrected, again.
Arghhhhhhh!

Vend

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Mar 1, 2008, 9:01:44 AM3/1/08

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On 1 Mar, 10:39, rem6...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)
wrote:

Wikipedia also lists Hyaenidae within Feliformia.

Platytude

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Mar 1, 2008, 2:13:22 PM3/1/08

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I TiVo The Tonight Show and went back and watched that scene. Jay
asked if hyenas were in the dog family and Dave Salmoni, the animal
expert on last night, responded that "they are a lot closer to bears."

-Plat

On Mar 1, 1:39 am, rem6...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)
wrote:

Geoff

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Mar 3, 2008, 9:22:49 AM3/3/08

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KlausH wrote:

>>>> Did I do it right? If so, either the animal expert was incorrect,
>>>> or I mis-heard him. Did anyone else here watch the show and hear
>>>> that particular claim?
>>
>>> Yes, you have it right. Hyenas are in the cat/weasel branch of
>>> carnivores; bears are in the bear/dog branch.
>>
>> You mean, the cat/civet/mongoose branch of the carnivores.
>> Weasels are part of the dog/bear/raccoon/seal branch.
>>
>

> Yup, weasels are caniformia; I stand corrected, again.
> Arghhhhhhh!

Hey, if you don't make a few mistakes now and then, you're not trying hard
enough.