Earth First! Activists Camp, Plot How to Halt Damage
Dan Clore
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
By Robert P. King
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 18, 2006
Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen
birds, the conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the
global struggle against industrial society.
In western Venezuela, natives are fighting to save their
homeland from strip mining, a thin New Yorker tells three
dozen others sprawled around him under a sheltering tarp. In
New Zealand, another man reports, protesters are occupying
land designated for a coal mine.
Other news trickles in — accounts of Londoners irate about
an expansion of Heathrow Airport, anger in the Netherlands
about logging near a NATO air base, the fight in Appalachia
against the mining practice known as "mountaintop removal."
Not content to bemoan the assault on nature, these folks
camping in the wilds of northwest Palm Beach County want to
know how they can stop it.
"I don't hear a lot of people talking about what it's going
to take to win," Ben Pachano, a visitor from Arizona wearing
a yarmulke and a black "Hunt Saboteur" T-shirt, says.
"What's it going to take for us to overthrow the system that
is killing the planet?"
These aren't idle words -- not when they come at a national
meeting of Earth First!, the in-your-face eco-crusade whose
followers are known for holding 2-year-long tree sit-ins,
throwing their bodies in front of bulldozers and sabotaging
logging equipment to save forests. The movement held its
annual winter conference this week in the J.W. Corbett
Wildlife Management Area, briefly making Palm Beach County
an epicenter of radical environmentalism in the United States.
"Radical" is a proud word for the movement's followers,
including Lake Worth residents who have blocked rush-hour
traffic, dumped rotten oranges in front of business leaders,
marched with giant puppets and bared breasts in The Breakers
to protest globalization, condo projects and The Scripps
Research Institute.
"People tend to throw around the word 'radical' like it's a
bad thing," says Peter "Panagioti" Tsolkas, 25, a Lake Worth
anarchist who helped organize -- if that's the proper word
-- the Earth First! gathering. "It's not that I hope we can
save the planet. We're going to save it or we're going to
die trying."
Tsolkas expects the three-day conference, followed by a
weekend "rendezvous," will draw more than 100 people by the
time it wraps up Sunday. It's a time for expressing
solidarity, discussing "green anarchy" and "eco-feminism"
and debating the dangers of sprawl, global warming and
biotechnology, the "slavery" of migrant farm labor and the
abuse of indigenous peoples.
The activists also have picked up machetes to clear trails
for the preserve, set aside time for poetry and Guatemalan
folk-punk music and feasted on food grown in organic gardens
or plucked -- Tsolkas says -- from commercial trash bins.
The gathering may be followed by a "week of actions,"
according to the invitation. The activists didn't specify
what those might be.
Earth First! is a 25-year-old movement with no formal
organization and no members, just a common philosophy of "no
compromise." That looseness is one of its great advantages,
says a 21-year-old Miami activist who goes by the name Sweet
Pea.
"You and your friends get together and do something, and you
put the name 'Earth First!' on it," she says.
Jim Flynn, an activist from Eugene, Ore., says the movement
appealed to him more than 20 years ago as "an environmental
group that's not afraid to break the law to get their point
across."
Earth First! is separate from a more militant movement, the
Earth Liberation Front, which the FBI has blamed for a wave
sabotage that has included the torchings of housing
developments, sports utility vehicle dealerships, federal
offices, McDonald's restaurants and a Colorado ski resort.
The FBI has called the liberation front one of the nation's
top domestic terror threats -- a ludicrous label, say the
Earth First! activists, who maintain that both movements
combined have injured fewer people than Vice President Dick
Cheney.
Justice Department spokesman Drew Wade countered that arson
and other destructive crimes endanger lives. "There's a
clear difference between advocacy that is protected by the
Constitution and violent criminal activity," he said.
The government doesn't consider Earth First! a terrorist
movement, says FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela, although she
says agents are aware of the Corbett gathering. "As long as
they're peaceful and they don't do anything unlawful, we
don't have any concern."
Earth First! activists have long debated the ethics of
resorting to property damage. But some also maintain that
all the federal talk about terrorism is aimed at deterring
peaceful actions as well.
In one recent example, local activists learned late last
year that an antiwar meeting in Lake Worth had shown up on a
Pentagon list of threats to national security.
If the government wants to intimidate activists such as
those gathered at Corbett, Tsolkas says, it has failed. "I
think a lot of us in our collective thought, 'We'll take
that as a compliment,'" he says.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2006/02/18/a4a_Poor_0218.html
--
Dan Clore
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
*anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
-- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
_Detective Comics_ #608
Stan de SD
"Dan Clore" <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
news:43F8EB9B...@columbia-center.org...
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
> By Robert P. King
> Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
> Saturday, February 18, 2006
>
> Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen
> birds, the conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the
> global struggle against industrial society.
Of course, what else can we expect from a bunch of Luddite kooks?
> "I don't hear a lot of people talking about what it's going
> to take to win," Ben Pachano, a visitor from Arizona wearing
> a yarmulke and a black "Hunt Saboteur" T-shirt, says.
> "What's it going to take for us to overthrow the system that
> is killing the planet?"
Once again...
===============================================
(following courtesy of Jim Alder:)
In 2003 a sociologist from Rutgers University named Ted Goertzel
wrote a paper in which he offered some insight into the psyche
of the left. Interesting reading:
In the 1970s, Stanley Rothman and Robert Lichter
administered Thematic Apperception Tests to a large sample of
"new left" radicals (Roots of Radicalism, 1982). They found that
activists were characterized by weakened self-esteem, injured
narcissism and paranoid tendencies. They were preoccupied with
power and attracted to radical ideologies that offered clear and
unambiguous answers to their questions. . . .
The unwillingness to offer alternatives reveals a lack of
self-confidence and self-esteem. If they offered their own
policy ideas they would be vulnerable to criticism. They would
run the risk that their ideas would fail, or would not seem
persuasive to others. This is especially difficult for anti-
capitalists after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has also been
difficult in the war against terrorism because Saddam Hussein
and Osama bin Laden are such unsympathetic figures.
Psychologically, it is easier to blame America for not finding a
solution than it is to put one's own ideas on the line.
===============================================
G*rd*n
> news:43F8EB9B...@columbia-center.org...
> > News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
> >
> > Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
> > By Robert P. King
> > Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
> > Saturday, February 18, 2006
> >
> > Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen
> > birds, the conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> Once again...
>
> ===============================================
> (following courtesy of Jim Alder:)
>
> In 2003 a sociologist from Rutgers University named Ted Goertzel
> wrote a paper in which he offered some insight into the psyche
> of the left. Interesting reading:
>
> In the 1970s, Stanley Rothman and Robert Lichter
> administered Thematic Apperception Tests to a large sample of
> "new left" radicals (Roots of Radicalism, 1982). They found that
> activists were characterized by weakened self-esteem, injured
> narcissism and paranoid tendencies. They were preoccupied with
> power and attracted to radical ideologies that offered clear and
> unambiguous answers to their questions. . . .
> ...
The above is a form of rhetorical dishonesty usually
called "reductionism". Instead of dealing with the
ideas or actions of one's opponents straightforwardly,
one characterizes them as diseased. A good example
of this procedure was worked out in the post-Stalin
Soviet Union as a way of neutralizing dissidents:
they were said to be mentally ill, and if they made
significant trouble they were locked up in mental
hospitals. The use of the disease metaphor against
political opponents was also practiced in Nazi Germany
and other fascist states.
It is not surprising to observe American rightists
borrowing these techniques; fortunately, they do not
yet have sufficient power to lock up their targets
for the "mental illness" of opposing the established
order.
Stan de SD
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dtb1qj$8j7$1...@reader2.panix.com...
Hardly - it's a legitimate critique of the psychological state of the hard
left, and it fits the eco-kooks to a "T".
> A good example
> of this procedure was worked out in the post-Stalin
> Soviet Union as a way of neutralizing dissidents:
> they were said to be mentally ill, and if they made
> significant trouble they were locked up in mental
> hospitals.
Sounds like the old Paranoid Personality Order kicking in, eh G*r*n?
ROTFLMAO!!! :O)
> It is not surprising to observe American rightists
> borrowing these techniques; fortunately, they do not
> yet have sufficient power to lock up their targets
> for the "mental illness" of opposing the established
> order.
I have no desire to lock you up, nor am I defending any "established order".
Au contraire, I hope you keeps keep babbling and posting, so the rest of the
world can see hos screwed up you really are. :O)
Dan Clore
You hardly need to point this out to realize how silly the
claims are. First, the bit of copy-and-paste text does not
concern anyone mentioned in the original article--it does
not mention anyone in Earth First!, which wasn't even
founded in the 1970s and does not have the same ideology or
practices as the 1970s New Left it concerns. Further, the
information it does provide is worthless. We have an
alleged, but uncited article (where, if anywhere, did this
article appear? Did it appear in a peer-reviewed journal?)
describing a study by a pair of right-wing activists (one of
them runs the "nonpartisan" Center for Media and Public
Affairs, funded by the likes of Pat Robertson and Ronald
Reagan, which devotes itself to exposing the "liberal"
media, and serves as "media analyst" for FOX News). This
study gave a number of members of the New Left the Thematic
Apperception Test, a psychological test in which subjects
look at pictures and make up stories about them. They then
draw all sorts of conclusions about the subjects, such as
that their "unwillingness to offer alternatives reveals a
lack of self-confidence and self-esteem. If they offered
their own policy ideas they would be vulnerable to
criticism. They would run the risk that their ideas would
fail, or would not seem persuasive to others." Now, how do
draw conclusions like that after asking someone to make up a
story about a picture of a kid looking at a violin on a
table? One suspects that the researchers engaged in as much
projection as the subjects.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
Stan de SD
Babbling again, as if you have any credibility around here?
Dan Clore
Once again Statist Stain reveals that he cannot argue with
facts or logic.
Stan de SD
> Stan de SD wrote:
> > "Dan Clore" <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
> > news:45sj1jF...@individual.net...
>
> > Babbling again, as if you have any credibility around here?
>
> Once again Statist Stain reveals that he cannot argue with
> facts or logic.
You haven't presented any facts or logic to even argue with, little boy.
Dan Clore
The quotes from Ted Goertzel come from an article on Noam
Chomsky:
http://crab.rutgers.edu/%7Egoertzel/NoamChomsky.htm
This appeared in something called "Clio's Psyche",
definitely not a scientific journal of any sort. It's hardly
worth perusing, but one should note that the second
paragraph quoted from it does not describe the results of
Rothman and Lichter's study; it gives Goertzel's own
opinions, unsupported by anything resembling empirical evidence.
Dan Clore
Considering that Statist Stain posted his response three
whole minutes after I made my posting, I somewhat doubt that
he examined its contents carefully enough to make any
judgment about the suitability of the junk he copy-and-pasted.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Stan de SD
I snipped all you babble, Danny Boy, so let's cut to the chase - I have a
plane to catch this evening, so I need to kick your ass quick. Please
explain the benefits to a "global struggle against industrial society", and
what you have in mind that's any better. And, keep it within the realm of
reality, instead your anarcho-commie nonsense about "worker's collectives",
OK?
Stan de SD
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net> wrote in message
news:29d22$43f9225f$45035f0b$17...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> > >>>> birds, the conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the
> > >>>> global struggle against industrial society. ...
>
> plane to catch this evening, so I need to kick your ass quick. Please
> explain the benefits to a "global struggle against industrial society",
and
> what you have in mind that's any better. And, keep it within the realm of
> reality, instead your anarcho-commie nonsense about "worker's
collectives",
> OK?
I didn't think you would respond, Clore, and it looks like I was right.
Fucking kook. :O|
Dan Clore
Posted thirteen minutes after his pathetic challenge. Okay,
Stain, you have thirteen minutes to explain the benefits of
destroying the planet and provide a complete description of
your ideal political system, without any nonsense about the
"free market", capitalist companies, etc. Otherwise you've
condemend yourself as a "Fucking kook".
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Jim E
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
> By Robert P. King
> Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
> Saturday, February 18, 2006
>
> Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen birds, the
> conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the global struggle against
> industrial society.
If these societal rejects wish to live in caves, then let them go do so.
Those of us who wish to remain in a civilized society will not tolerate
these terrorists.
Jim E
King Amdo
certain....
(just do a search for global warming)
...and that includes racist anti tribal animal rights nazi's :~
MAKAH TRIBAL SOVERIGNTY!
King Amdo
tribal single issue morons) animal rights nazi's think that they can
operate freely at EF! getherings and 'take' the energy even...this is
the 'hegmony'...and yet another reason why you will fail (to 'save the
earth' ).
King Amdo
karm's fucked.
G*rd*n
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com>:
> >>The above is a form of rhetorical dishonesty usually
> >>called "reductionism". Instead of dealing with the
> >>ideas or actions of one's opponents straightforwardly,
> >>one characterizes them as diseased.
Stan de SD wrote:
> > Hardly - it's a legitimate critique of the psychological state of the hard
> > left, and it fits the eco-kooks to a "T".
> Considering that Statist Stain posted his response three
> whole minutes after I made my posting, I somewhat doubt that
> he examined its contents carefully enough to make any
> judgment about the suitability of the junk he copy-and-pasted.
Maybe it's just the wind in the chimney, but it seems to me
that right-wingers are becoming increasingly shrill and
agitated lately. I'm reminded of those roaches in China
that start running around wildly several hours before an
earthquake. Maybe the 'wingers sense something coming more
rational people can't detect?
brique
It's so damn obvious, the violin represents 'liberty', the child is godless
communism and the table represents Gaia. The child is obviously thinking
about smashing the violin, burning the remains in a ritual ceremony it
learnt last semester, fucking the table and thus condemning humanity to an
eternity of slavery in squalid gulags whilst he wears a mink posing pouch
and desports himself in luxury whilst the people are whipped by jack-booted
guards into singing his praises.
I really cant see what all the fuss is about.........
> --
> Dan Clore
>
> My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
> Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
brique
Probably copy/pasted it from his own medical records and changed the names
to protect the guilty........
brique
They do seem to have an 'anger' issue, don't they? Perhaps not, maybe they
are just stupid and when word went around to use 'anger' to attack the
democrats they just got confused......
brique
Jim E <YD64...@SEA.net> wrote in message
news:45tbj9F...@individual.net...
the ground whilst screaming 'you're sick!, sick!, sick!' ?
>
> Jim E
>
>
Dan Clore
Having checked the article by Goertzel, I have to point out
that he did *not* attribute the conclusions I quote above to
the study by Rothman and Lichter. His work was merely
quoted, with creative use of ellipsis, to make it look as if
he did. Rather, they represent his own (unsupported) claims.
> It's so damn obvious, the violin represents 'liberty', the child is godless
> communism and the table represents Gaia. The child is obviously thinking
> about smashing the violin, burning the remains in a ritual ceremony it
> learnt last semester, fucking the table and thus condemning humanity to an
> eternity of slavery in squalid gulags whilst he wears a mink posing pouch
> and desports himself in luxury whilst the people are whipped by jack-booted
> guards into singing his praises.
> I really cant see what all the fuss is about.........
Well, I sort of figured that the New Left radical made up a
story something like this: "The child wishes to expropriate
the violin in the name of the oppressed masses, and make it
the common property of the proletariat, the People's Violin,
if you will, but he knows that his Capitalist Masters are
watching on the vidscreen from 1984 and will immediately
swoop in on him if he moves a millimeter closer to the violin--"
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
Dan Clore
Well, in Stain's case, he has made an incredible flurry of
posts in the last day or two (check out his home groups,
like alt.activism), which all seem to have in common: (1)
juvenile namecalling; (2) a complete lack of argument based
on facts or logic; and (3) frequent statements that make it
quite obvious that he has not read the material he's
purportedly responding to. He also likes to snip large
amounts of material, which (again) his comments reveal he
has not read.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Dan Clore
Can you name a single act of terrorism which the Earth
First!ers have been accused of? Remember that terrorism
requires violence or a threat of violence against a human being.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
brique
No mink-lined posing pouches then?
Jim E
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
news:114046633...@dyke.uk.clara.net...
And you think the cop was wrong ???
Jim E
> Jim E wrote:
>> "Dan Clore" <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
>> news:43F8EB9B...@columbia-center.org...
>
>>>News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>>>
>>>Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
>>>By Robert P. King
>>>Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
>>>Saturday, February 18, 2006
>>>
>>>Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen birds, the
>>>conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the global struggle against
>>>industrial society.
>>
>> If these societal rejects wish to live in caves, then let them go do so.
>> Those of us who wish to remain in a civilized society will not tolerate
>> these terrorists.
>
> Can you name a single act of terrorism which the Earth First!ers have been
> accused of? Remember that terrorism requires violence or a threat of
> violence against a human being.
>
Well in this neck of the woods there have been the torching of several
construction sites ($umpty millions) car dealerships torched, and logging
sites
sabotaged.
The Earth firsters or whatever name the locals go by
are no different than the islamizoids.
Jim E
G*rd*n
> > that right-wingers are becoming increasingly shrill and
> > agitated lately. I'm reminded of those roaches in China
> > that start running around wildly several hours before an
> > earthquake. Maybe the 'wingers sense something coming more
> > rational people can't detect?
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m>:
> They do seem to have an 'anger' issue, don't they? Perhaps not, maybe they
> are just stupid and when word went around to use 'anger' to attack the
> democrats they just got confused......
Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right
is about power, and anger is the edge of the sword. Deriding
supposed leftists about their anger is not a deprecation of
anger but of those who wield it ineffectually.
I am thinking of something else -- fear, probably. The
U.S. is in a difficult position -- actually, in a complex of
difficult positions. For instance, Iran has the U.S. military
pinned in Iraq, a situation which they did not construct and
maybe did not desire, but which has been handed to them on a
plate and which they seem to have accepted as a basis for
future play. There is as well the trade deficit, the Federal
budget deficit, the real estate bubble, the price and availability
of oil, the decay of the environment, and the growing visibility
of corruption and incompetence in the conduct of domestic
government. Nothing truly catastrophic has happened yet, but
the ice is getting very thin and the shore is far away.
G*rd*n
> >> news:43F8EB9B...@columbia-center.org...
> >> > News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
> >> >
> >> > Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
> >> > By Robert P. King
> >> > Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
> >> > Saturday, February 18, 2006
> >> >
> >> > Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen birds, the
> >> > conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the global struggle
> > against
> >> > industrial society.
Jim E <YD64...@SEA.net> wrote in message
> >> If these societal rejects wish to live in caves, then let them go do so.
> >> Those of us who wish to remain in a civilized society will not tolerate
> >> these terrorists.
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
> > Anyone else remember that old cartoon of a cop smashing a hippie's face
> > into
> > the ground whilst screaming 'you're sick!, sick!, sick!' ?
"Jim E" <YD64...@SEA.net>:
> And you think the cop was wrong ???
Gratuitously beating up harmless people is often thought
of as evidencing mental illness or moral defect. However
in some contexts, e.g. pre-Civil Rights Mississippi or
Nazi Germany, it was encouraged and rewarded rather than
sanctioned as long as the right sort of harmless person
was targeted. I guess your view of such things depends
on your idea of proper social conduct.
King Amdo
Dan Clore
Okay, say you aren't talking about the Earth First!ers and
still can't name a single act of terrorism anyway.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Jim E
I can't decide if that is denial or confusion on your part.
Jim E
Jim E
Being a Nam Vet I tended to think that hippies were fair game being as they
supported the enemy, just like liberals today.
Jim E
G*rd*n
> >> >> news:43F8EB9B...@columbia-center.org...
> >> >> > News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> >> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Earth First! activists camp, plot how to halt damage
> >> >> > By Robert P. King
> >> >> > Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
> >> >> > Saturday, February 18, 2006
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Amid the aroma of Spanish rice and the cawing of unseen birds, the
> >> >> > conversation beneath the slash pines turns to the global struggle
> >> > against
> >> >> > industrial society.
Jim E <YD64...@SEA.net> wrote in message
> >> >> If these societal rejects wish to live in caves, then let them go do
> >> >> so.
> >> >> Those of us who wish to remain in a civilized society will not
> >> >> tolerate
> >> >> these terrorists.
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
> >> > Anyone else remember that old cartoon of a cop smashing a hippie's face
> >> > into
> >> > the ground whilst screaming 'you're sick!, sick!, sick!' ?
"Jim E" <YD64...@SEA.net>:
> >> And you think the cop was wrong ???
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > Gratuitously beating up harmless people is often thought
> > of as evidencing mental illness or moral defect. However
> > in some contexts, e.g. pre-Civil Rights Mississippi or
> > Nazi Germany, it was encouraged and rewarded rather than
> > sanctioned as long as the right sort of harmless person
> > was targeted. I guess your view of such things depends
> > on your idea of proper social conduct.
"Jim E" <YD65...@sea.net>:
> Being a Nam Vet I tended to think that hippies were fair game being as they
> supported the enemy, just like liberals today.
That appears to be the theory of _Mein Kampf_: Man is a fighting
animal, therefore all who are not part of one's pack or team
are enemies, "fair game" as you put it. The only social
reality is war.
The trouble with the theory is, humans actually do a lot of
things besides war. If all they did was war, they would soon
die off.
The outcome of Vietnam is instructive. The Viet Cong fought
for Communism; then, when they won, they abandoned it. The
U.S. fought to control Viet Nam and keep it in the Western
sphere; after they gave up, it turned out that they didn't
need to control it, and the Vietnamese desired to join the
West after all. The hippies said the war was a crock, and
they were right.
However, for some people, being right is no substitute for
feeling that you can attack other people whenever you feel
like it -- war for war's sake. Which is why the author
of _Mein Kampf_ was so popular (until he lost).
I'd like to suggest a different arrangement: instead of
attacking everyone outside the pack, packs should only
engage one another -- gladitorial combat. Doesn't that
seem more worthy than chopping up helpless civilians? Or
would restricting warfare only to those who wanted to
play the game take all the fun out of it?
Stan de SD
Uh, it's your buddy Clore who is the one becoming agitated. And three
minutes is plenty of time to read Clore and realize that he is parroting the
same old crap over and over.
Stan de SD
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
The ones who want to launch a "global struggle against industrialized
society", which includes vandalism, destruction of property, and other acts
of terrorism, are the ones with the anger problem.
Stan de SD
> G*rd*n <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > > Maybe it's just the wind in the chimney, but it seems to me
> > > that right-wingers are becoming increasingly shrill and
> > > agitated lately. I'm reminded of those roaches in China
> > > that start running around wildly several hours before an
> > > earthquake. Maybe the 'wingers sense something coming more
> > > rational people can't detect?
>
> "brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m>:
> > They do seem to have an 'anger' issue, don't they? Perhaps not, maybe
they
> > are just stupid and when word went around to use 'anger' to attack the
> > democrats they just got confused......
>
> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right
> is about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children try to
destroy other people's property?
Stan de SD
Instead of blathering as usual, why don't you try to use what few brain
cells you have, Danny Boy, and answer a couple of questions:
(1) Why must "industrialized society" be destroyed, and who will benefit
from it?
(2) What do you intend to replace it with?
I submit that you have satisfactory answers to neither of these questions,
and that you know it. Now, I am sure that you will flail around to try to
divert the issue, but in doing so you will prove the argument of the
researchers that I am reposting below:
"In the 1970s, Stanley Rothman and Robert Lichter administered Thematic
Apperception Tests to a large sample of "new left" radicals (Roots of
Radicalism, 1982). They found that activists were characterized by weakened
self-esteem, injured
narcissism and paranoid tendencies. They were preoccupied with power and
attracted to radical ideologies that offered clear and unambiguous answers
to their questions. . . .
The unwillingness to offer alternatives reveals a lack of
self-confidence and self-esteem. If they offered their own policy ideas they
would be vulnerable to criticism. They would run the risk that their ideas
would fail, or would not seem persuasive to others. This is especially
difficult for anti-capitalists after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has
also been difficult in the war against terrorism because Saddam Hussein and
Osama bin Laden are such unsympathetic figures. Psychologically, it is
easier to blame America for not finding a solution than it is to put one's
own ideas on the line."
Stan de SD
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
Smoking drugs again? You need to preserve what few brain cells you have...
:O|
Stan de SD
news:46ce4lF...@individual.net...
Danny Boy's one of those brain-dead Utopianistas who thinks that
hair-brained philosophies such as environmentalism and communism can't be
held accountable for the violence and mayhem their movements cause because
the founders weren't the actual ones committing the murder and destruction.
For example, Danny and his ilk are convinced that Stalin and Mao's murdering
rampages had nothing to do with communism, and that they could have made it
somehow work if only they were put in charge... :O|
Ha-Emet
__
*Cowboy
Bush and Katrina*
Hundreds of thousands of people have died because of the
incompetence of George W. Bush. The president on August 31st peered out
of the cabin window on Air Force One to survey the damage along the Gulf
Coast of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. The people of that area
have to feel better for that - as their _moron_ president struggles with
his conscience (if he had one) over his decision months earlier to cut
essential flood control funding that would have left the area much
better prepared to deal with this storm.
*The president says it will take years to recover from this storm. While
the storm could not be prevented, the cost in lives and damage could have
been greatly reduced if domestic disaster preparedness had not been
neglected by the George W. Bush administration and funds would have been
allocated for a problem they knew existed.
**Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/BusH/CriminalNeglect.shtml
*The deaths and the damage are a result of Bush's criminal neglect. George
Bush cut funding for flood control. Books have been written about the risk
of a storm like this and the necessity for repairing levees and other
flood control structures. But the money just wasn't available because it
was diverted by George W. Bush for the war in Iraq.
brique
Mmm, wasn't that form of reasoning one of the reasons the USA rather lost
the hearts and minds of the Vietnameses people, followed by the war itself.
Dan Clore
> I can't decide if that is denial or confusion on your part.
Well, I asked you to name a single act of terrorism
committed by the Earth First!ers, and you mentioned acts
which (1) someone else committed; (2) were not acts of
terrorism. So where's the denial or confusion on my part?
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Jim E
You people just cant get away from that nazi insult, can you?
It's so much easiert than argument of facts.
: Man is a fighting
> animal, therefore all who are not part of one's pack or team
> are enemies, "fair game" as you put it. The only social
> reality is war.
>
If people didn't enjoy war they wouldn't indulge in it.
For some war is high sport.
> The trouble with the theory is, humans actually do a lot of
> things besides war. If all they did was war, they would soon
> die off.
The point you avoid is that that is not all that man does.
It's just pone aspect.
>
> The outcome of Vietnam is instructive. The Viet Cong fought
> for Communism; then, when they won, they abandoned it. The
> U.S. fought to control Viet Nam and keep it in the Western
> sphere; after they gave up, it turned out that they didn't
> need to control it, and the Vietnamese desired to join the
> West after all. The hippies said the war was a crock, and
> they were right.
They were a bunch of unwashed, dope devouring, parasites.
>
> However, for some people, being right is no substitute for
> feeling that you can attack other people whenever you feel
> like it -- war for war's sake. Which is why the author
> of _Mein Kampf_ was so popular (until he lost).
>
Again reverting to name calling by inuendo.
Pathetic liberal that you are.
> I'd like to suggest a different arrangement: instead of
> attacking everyone outside the pack, packs should only
> engage one another -- gladitorial combat. Doesn't that
> seem more worthy than chopping up helpless civilians? Or
> would restricting warfare only to those who wanted to
> play the game take all the fun out of it?
In this nation warfare is restricted to those who choose it.
Volunteers all.
Been there , done that.
Ah the memories of youth. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Jim E
G*rd*n
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > However, for some people, being right is no substitute for
> > feeling that you can attack other people whenever you feel
> > like it -- war for war's sake. Which is why the author
> > of _Mein Kampf_ was so popular (until he lost).
"Jim E" <YD65...@sea.net>:
> Again reverting to name calling by inuendo.
> Pathetic liberal that you are.
There is more to my mentioning _Mein Kampf_ than mere
name-calling. The book and its author exemplify the
belief that war is a good thing, and their path in
history follows the development and exercise of that
belief. Thus far you haven't shown us the difference
between your beliefs and those of _Mein Kampf_. War
is good; what's next?
Incidentally I want to say that I respect your taking
a forthright position on this. Most people who do
war claim to love peace, they just have to kill a few
(million) people and everything will be wonderful.
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > I'd like to suggest a different arrangement: instead of
> > attacking everyone outside the pack, packs should only
> > engage one another -- gladitorial combat. Doesn't that
> > seem more worthy than chopping up helpless civilians? Or
> > would restricting warfare only to those who wanted to
> > play the game take all the fun out of it?
"Jim E" <YD65...@sea.net>:
> In this nation warfare is restricted to those who choose it.
> Volunteers all.
> Been there , done that.
> Ah the memories of youth. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
No one who was in New York City on 9/11, 2001, is likely to
think that war is restricted to volunteers. The same goes
for people who live in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, and a
lot of other places. In Vietnam, the number of non-combatant
casualties was something like 20 times the number of combatant
casualties. War as it stands seems to be mostly against
civilians.
Joseph K.
It would have been better, i guess, if you didn't have to run away. I
mean not you personally (maybe you ran too) but American forces in
general. Or is it good anyway, even when you are defeated? My question
is not rhetorical or sarcastical, I fought in a war as well, on a much
smaller scale though, guerrilla warfare. I am interested in your
views. Those memories of youth in Nam, are they equally good even
though in the end your army was defeated? If yes (as it appears from
your post), then war was good just for the hell of it not for victory,
right? Or are you just trying to annoy those you call 'liberals'?
G*rd*n
>>>> Maybe it's just the wind in the chimney, but it seems to me
>>>> that right-wingers are becoming increasingly shrill and
>>>> agitated lately. I'm reminded of those roaches in China
>>>> that start running around wildly several hours before an
>>>> earthquake. Maybe the 'wingers sense something coming more
>>>> rational people can't detect?
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m>:
>>> They do seem to have an 'anger' issue, don't they? Perhaps not, maybe they
>>> are just stupid and when word went around to use 'anger' to attack the
>>> democrats they just got confused......
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com>:
>> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right
>> is about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children try to
> destroy other people's property?
I don't know any hysterical unwashed children, although I
am sure there are some in the world somewhere.
People destroy other people's property for a variety of
reasons, sometimes for more than one simple reason, and
sometimes for no reason at all. Bush senior bombed the
Middle East, Bill Clinton bombed the Middle East, Dub
bombed the Middle East. All of them destroyed other
people's property. Was it always for the same reason?
Curly Surmudgeon
---------snip---------
>> That appears to be the theory of _Mein Kampf_
>
>
> You people just cant get away from that nazi insult, can you?
> It's so much easiert than argument of facts.
and
>> However, for some people, being right is no substitute for
>> feeling that you can attack other people whenever you feel
>> like it -- war for war's sake. Which is why the author
>> of _Mein Kampf_ was so popular (until he lost).
>>
>
> Again reverting to name calling by inuendo.
> Pathetic liberal that you are.
Jim, you seem to be the one engaging in ad homenims here, not the one you
slander... And even if he did, you're living in a glass house and
shouldn't toss stones.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beware the American Taliban
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim E
war is not a personal thing by definition. Some people have a problem with
that concept. It's kinda like chess where you only get to know where your
own pieces are,
sometimes. And the other sides pieces almost never
(everything from the 2 shop is fiction).
But the adrenalin rush compounded with the boredom
makes one seek the rush. Every cliché seems to be true,
90% tedium, vs. 10% abject panic.
For a young man who knows he's going to live forever,
and is convinced by his trainers that he is virtually the greatest killing
machine to walk on dirt ., the rush of combat can be very addictive. Even
after seeing your own casualties, you know in your heart, that guy had *bad
luck*.
Most combat vets will tell you that luck is more important than anything,
after a few months that is, and reality sets in.
But the bravado never goes away.
Till you come home.
One green machine vet.
Jim E
This philosophy lesson costs what it is worth ZERO.
So don't complain about free .
Jim E
Jim E
> right? Or are you just trying to annoy those you call 'liberals'?
What could be better than to be a teenager, armed to the teeth, at least a
century more advanced than you adversary.
On top of that to be in a total free fire zone, you know that where ever you
go there are no other friendlies.
You are instructed , basically to kill anything mans size or larger.
Elephants were the dink duce and a half. tigers were a threat, and any human
you encountered was by definition, and rules of engagement, enemy.
Life was good, on most days.
Jim E
Jim E
"Curly Surmudgeon" <cu...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:e5mdnS7Xvox...@comcast.com...
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:06:49 -0800, Jim E wrote:
> ---------snip---------
>>> That appears to be the theory of _Mein Kampf_
>>
>>
>> You people just cant get away from that nazi insult, can you?
>> It's so much easiert than argument of facts.
>
>
> and
>
>>> However, for some people, being right is no substitute for
>>> feeling that you can attack other people whenever you feel
>>> like it -- war for war's sake. Which is why the author
>>> of _Mein Kampf_ was so popular (until he lost).
>>>
>>
>> Again reverting to name calling by inuendo.
>> Pathetic liberal that you are.
>
> Jim, you seem to be the one engaging in ad homenims here, not the one you
> slander... And even if he did, you're living in a glass house and
> shouldn't toss stones.
>
S c a r e d.
Threatened by a lib, that mildly humorous.
Jim E
Jim E
That statement is proof in itself.
You deny facts published in the leftist press. How droll.
Environazis are no better than islomizoids. A creature to be terminated on
sight. terrorism is terrorism,the perceived cause means nothing.
Compost.
See, I think green ;-)
Jim E
brique
Which is why all those who fought in Vietnam were volunteers, eh?
brique
Well, you certainly think shit, so you may very well be 'green' in that
sense.
But when you come down from the remembered rush of slicing the ears off
'dinks' and wasting elephants with quad-50's and shitting yourself every
night cos you dont know if the moving bush is a tiger or a VC or a your own
good buddies back from gang-banging the village virgins...well, of course
your mind produces shit as well.
But out of the shit does crawl a small maggot of truth: 'the percieved cause
means nothing', and reading your 'memories' it does become obvious that
either you would have been a fucked-up homicidal maniac there or at home,
its just that at home you would not have got any medals for it. Or you been
watching too much 'Full Metal Jacket'.. (careful you dont quote too directly
from it.)
>
> Jim E
>
>
>
>
>
>
James A. Donald
"G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com>:
> >> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right is
> >> about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> > And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children
> > try to destroy other people's property?
G*rd*n
> I don't know any hysterical unwashed children, although I am sure
> there are some in the world somewhere.
Actually they seemed quite stylishly dressed to me, but they do get
hysterical and do randomly destroy property.
You are frequently making arguments, in a superficially civilized
tone, which explain why me and everyone like me should be disposed of,
which despite the superficial civility sounds angry enough to me, and
brique appears to be in a permanent state of insane hysterical rage.
And, by the way, I am not a "rightist".
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
8jG9NTJJMGtDxDCI266D+NWVVvllS1ZBVaN5cCCU
4xes3aeybgYeGeiKDAcZpleOcxccR/Y+Ydl0JaVBi
James A. Donald
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:50:55 +0000 (UTC), g...@panix.com (G*rd*n)
wrote:
> The outcome of Vietnam is instructive. The Viet Cong fought for
> Communism; then, when they won, they abandoned it.
You live in a world of your own.
When the Vietcong won, they were murdered by North Vietnamese Army.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
K3O2aIRTCh4Y7gx5v53r+dZ1gtF7Q7vb043FEGgA
40acAxRL9Ko5tjQ3NlT6GdJlrK2W2gr1ykiLeUJp8
Jim E
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
I was, and that is my frame of reference.
Jim E
Dan Clore
Name the allegedly denied facts, published in the leftist
press or elsewhere.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
Jim E
"brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
We used 2.75's and minigun.
Quad 50's dont do jungle well (Vehicle mounted)
and shitting yourself every
> night cos you dont know if the moving bush is a tiger or a VC or a your
> own
> good buddies back from gang-banging the village virgins.
Your fantasies are showing.
> your mind produces shit as well.
>
> But out of the shit does crawl a small maggot of truth: 'the percieved
> cause
> means nothing',
A fact, your terrorists are no better than islamizoid terrorists.
and reading your 'memories' it does become obvious that
> either you would have been a fucked-up homicidal maniac there or at home,
> its just that at home you would not have got any medals for it.
I propose that thirty plus years of life in peace and quiet here at home
puts your silly projection in the shitter.
Or you been
> watching too much 'Full Metal Jacket'.. (careful you dont quote too
> directly
> from it.)
>
Only watched it once, war flix never seem to be worth a hoot, maybe it's
because of the fags in Hollywood.
Jim E
Stan de SD
> G*rd*n <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
> >>>> Maybe it's just the wind in the chimney, but it seems to me
> >>>> that right-wingers are becoming increasingly shrill and
> >>>> agitated lately. I'm reminded of those roaches in China
> >>>> that start running around wildly several hours before an
> >>>> earthquake. Maybe the 'wingers sense something coming more
> >>>> rational people can't detect?
>
> "brique" <briqu...@freeuk.c0m>:
> >>> They do seem to have an 'anger' issue, don't they? Perhaps not, maybe
they
> >>> are just stupid and when word went around to use 'anger' to attack the
> >>> democrats they just got confused......
>
> "G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com>:
> >> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right
> >> is about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
>
> "Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> > And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children try to
> > destroy other people's property?
>
>
> I don't know any hysterical unwashed children,
You lie...
> People destroy other people's property for a variety of
> reasons, sometimes for more than one simple reason, and
> sometimes for no reason at all. Bush senior bombed the
> Middle East, Bill Clinton bombed the Middle East, Dub
> bombed the Middle East. All of them destroyed other
> people's property. Was it always for the same reason?
Whose property got destroyed on 9/11, twit?
Joseph K.
So the fact that you were defeated did not matter much, it was just
for the hell of it.
G*rd*n
> > >> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right is
> > >> about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> > > And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children
> > > try to destroy other people's property?
G*rd*n
> > I don't know any hysterical unwashed children, although I am sure
> > there are some in the world somewhere.
James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com>:
> Actually they seemed quite stylishly dressed to me, but they do get
> hysterical and do randomly destroy property.
>
> You are frequently making arguments, in a superficially civilized
> tone, which explain why me and everyone like me should be disposed of,
> which despite the superficial civility sounds angry enough to me, and
> brique appears to be in a permanent state of insane hysterical rage.
I don't suppose it will do any good to ask you to point
out one of these arguments, since previous requests of
that kind have never elicited any cogent response. In
any case I want you to know that I wash frequently and
am not a child, just in case you were under some
misapprehension as to my status. And it's too early
in the morning to be hysterical.
James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com>:
> And, by the way, I am not a "rightist".
Did I say you were? I mean in this thread. I
wasn't thinking about you at all. You haven't seemed
any more agitated or angry than usual. I was thinking
of more mainstream types, who seem to be getting
pretty fizzy these days.
brique
James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:qjt702tqa19bnk8e2...@4ax.com...
> --
> "G*rd*n" <g...@panix.com>:
> > >> Rightists have always been angry. The politics of the Right is
> > >> about power, and anger is the edge of the sword.
>
> "Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net>:
> > > And exactly what do you call it when hysterical unwashed children
> > > try to destroy other people's property?
>
> G*rd*n
> > I don't know any hysterical unwashed children, although I am sure
> > there are some in the world somewhere.
>
> Actually they seemed quite stylishly dressed to me, but they do get
> hysterical and do randomly destroy property.
>
> You are frequently making arguments, in a superficially civilized
> tone, which explain why me and everyone like me should be disposed of,
> which despite the superficial civility sounds angry enough to me, and
> brique appears to be in a permanent state of insane hysterical rage.
>
> And, by the way, I am not a "rightist".
Of course you James, don't be silly.
brique
Oh, so when you wrote : " In this nation warfare is restricted to those who
choose it. Volunteers all." : you really only were referign to yourself.
That fits.
>
>
> Jim E
>
>
brique
Yep, prime asshole. Guess you got to kill lots of gooks on laterine duty,
huh?
>
>
> Jim E
>
>
Dan Clore
> James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote in message
> news:qjt702tqa19bnk8e2...@4ax.com...
Maybe he means that he just plays one on Usenet.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the