Fears Grow About Depleted Uranium
Organic Observer
Fears Grow About Depleted Uranium
By JEFFREY ULBRICH, Associated Press Writer
BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - European governments are disturbed. Some of
their soldiers are falling sick and dying, and they don't know why.
Every day the question grows louder: Can the armor-piercing munitions
made of depleted uranium that NATO (news - web sites) used in Kosovo be
causing cancer?
There is no answer. Nobody has made the connection scientifically.
Certainly not NATO.
The United States, the only NATO ally to use depleted uranium weapons
during the 78-day air campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999, insisted
again Thursday that the munitions pose no health threat.
In Washington, the Pentagon (news - web sites) said it is aware of the
concerns being raised by some allies.
``We share those concerns,'' said Lt. Col. Paul Phillips. He said the
United States has conducted many studies on depleted uranium,
particularly since the 1991 Gulf War when the weapons were first used.
``In each study, we've come away convinced that the use of depleted
uranium munitions does not present significant or residual
environmental or health risks,'' Phillips said.
NATO spokeswoman Simone de Manso in Brussels, said: ``According to our
knowledge from independent research ... there is no study that can
prove a direct link between certain types of diseases of which people
are now afraid and contact with depleted uranium.''
The reassurances haven't calmed jittery Europeans, and Thursday the 15-
nation European Union (news - web sites) added its voice.
``There will be an informal inquiry,'' said EU spokesman Jonathan
Faull. He said it was too soon to say if soldiers who served in the
Balkans under NATO were suffering from illnesses as a result of contact
with depleted uranium. ``What we know is that community citizens have
been affected.''
Romano Prodi, president of the European Commission (news - web sites),
the EU's executive arm, said the EU ``needs to know the truth.''
``If there exists the slightest risk, then these weapons should be
abolished immediately,'' Prodi told Italian radio.
A year ago, NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson confirmed that
American jets had fired about 31,000 depleted uranium rounds at
Yugoslav armored vehicles in Kosovo.
The U.N. Environment Program is expected to release a report on the
subject next month. And the subject will be discussed at NATO's regular
weekly political committee Tuesday.
Italy launched an investigation last week into a possible link between
depleted uranium munitions and about 30 cases of serious illness
involving soldiers who served in missions Kosovo and earlier in Bosnia,
12 of whom developed cancer. Five of the soldiers have died of leukemia.
And France said Thursday that four French soldiers who served in the
Balkans during the 1999 bombing campaign are being treated for leukemia.
Spain, Portugal, Finland, Belgium, Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey
announced plans to screen peacekeepers.
Some don't believe the screening is worth the effort.
Wendla Paile of the Finnish Center for Radiation and Nuclear Safety in
Helsinki said such screening was ``pointless.''
``The radiation from uranium depleted ammunition is so little that it
could not explain these extra cases (of leukemia),'' Paile said.
Paul Beaver, an analyst at Janes Defense Weekly, said the countries
screening their troops have no idea what to look for.
``The problem is there hasn't been any really good work done on it,''
Beaver said. ``There is no concrete information. There has been
research carried out by the U.S. Army, the British and the French as
well, but it seems inconclusive. I've read all the literature I can
find on it, but I have no straight answer.''
Copyright © 2001 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Envirocrime
``We share those concerns,'' said Lt. Col. Paul Phillips. He said the
United States has conducted many studies on depleted uranium (NOT OH
HEALTH?],
particularly since the 1991 Gulf War when the weapons were first used.
``In each study, we've come away convinced that the use of depleted
uranium munitions does not present significant [BEWARE OF THE AMBIGOUS WORD
SIGNIFICANT - ARE WE TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND QUANTITES?] or residual
environmental or health risks,'' Phillips said.
NATO spokeswoman Simone de Manso in Brussels, said: ``According to our
knowledge from independent research ... there is no study [DID THEY CONDUCT
ONE?]that can
J Wootton
J Wootton
Seth Dillon
It has been used in aircraft since the 50's as balance weights for
flight controls (ailerons, elevators, rudders). Mechanics are exposed
to the stuff on a daily basis yet there is not a higher incidence of
luekimia or other cancers among this group than there is in the general
population. In addition while the Gulf war was the first use of DU
munitions in anger the munitions have been around since the 70's and
fired extensivly in live fire exercises with no ill effects (except to
the targets)
-Seth
J Wootton
workplace, they'd be more concerned about pancreatic cancer
http://www.gi.ucalgary.ca/patinfo/html/pancreatic_cancer.html
working with chemicals like petroleum products and solvents <snip>
Do you have access to longterm followup of everyone who has worked as a mechanic?
J
http://www.ppm.at/gesundheit_und_betrieb/msg00044.html
Testicular cancer in airplane mechanics
Datum: 27.09.1998 18:23
Von: A+Gbe...@PowerOnline.Net (Beratungs- und Informationsstelle Arbeit)
Dear all,
we would like any kind of information on cases or clusters of
TESTICULAR CANCER in AIRPLANE MECHANICS.
Background: There is a cluster of testicular cancer at one big German
airlines maintenance centre. This cluster has not been published yet. We
are looking into it in view of workers compensation.
We are aware of several publications on testicular cancer in airplane
mechanics (as well as in tannery workers).
In addition we would like to know whether anybody knows about other
clusters of testicular cancer which have not yet been published in the
scientific literature.
Perhaps you could approach union members or other contacts in your
national airlines maintenance shops to find out whether there are any
suspicious cases.
Please reply to:
A+Gbe...@PowerOnline.Net
Thank you!
Henning Wriedt,
Beratungs- und Informationsstelle Arbeit & Gesundheit
Hamburg, Germany
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
Seth Dillon
is pretty low on the list of shit we are exposed to.
-Seth
J Wootton
http://www.gi.ucalgary.ca/patinfo/html/pancreatic_cancer.html
working with chemicals like petroleum products and solvents <snip
Seth Dillon wrote:
> I have been an aircraft mechanic mechanic for 22 years. Believe me. DU
> is pretty low on the list of shit we are exposed to.
So the answer was No? (to my question).
>
> -Seth
> >
> > Do you have access to longterm followup of everyone who has worked as a mechanic?
>
Seth Dillon
is nothing new and thousands have been exposed to it for long periods
with no documented evidence of long term health risks due to that
exposure.
In my not so humble opinion I think the hysteria that is being raised is
groundless. You would probably find more of a health risk in the
expelled gasses from propellant used to send the DU bullets on their way
or in the gasses realesed when a bomb explodes.
In addition I am not sure how much DU ammunition was fired in Kosovo.
IIRC it is mostly used in the 30mm cannon carried by the A-10 for anti
tank use. It may also be used in the 30mm gun on the Bradly but I am
not sure. It is not used in either the HEAT or sabot round fired from
the main gun of an M1.
-Seth
Scott Nudds
: I have a hard time buying into all the hype about DU being dangerous.
: flight controls (ailerons, elevators, rudders). Mechanics are exposed
: to the stuff on a daily basis yet there is not a higher incidence of
: luekimia or other cancers among this group than there is in the general
: population. In addition while the Gulf war was the first use of DU
: munitions in anger the munitions have been around since the 70's and
: fired extensivly in live fire exercises with no ill effects (except to
: the targets)
Time will tell. There is mounting evidence that all is not right with
DU ammunition, although (suprise suprise), the military denies any
problem.
Exposure to expended ammunition is of course quite different from
exposure to solid blocks of metal sitting around in wooden boxes.
Expended DU ammunition is largely converted to a fine particulate oxide as
it hits it's target.
The concern is that this powder is being ingested and inhaled.
Scott Nudds
: In my not so humble opinion I think the hysteria that is being raised is
: groundless. You would probably find more of a health risk in the
: expelled gasses from propellant used to send the DU bullets on their way
: or in the gasses realesed when a bomb explodes.
Military will examine depleted uranium tests - Feb 7, 2000
--------------------------------------------
- CBC Newsworld -
HALIFAX - Defence Minister Art Eggleton said Monday the military will
look closely at medical tests that found disturbing levels of depleted
uranium in the body of a Nova Scotia soldier who had served in the
Gulf War.
Eggleton said the military is also willing to test any members of the
Canadian Forces who fear they may have been exposed to the radioactive
material that was used in weapons in the Gulf.
"I think it's very sad, Mr. Riordon's death and the results are
something we need to look at and will look at carefully," said
Eggleton outside the House of Commons.
But in the past, defence officials have dismissed the health risks of
depleted uranium to soldiers during conflicts.
Terry Riordon of Yarmouth, N.S., died last year after a series of
illnesses he believed were connected to his time in the Gulf. Riordon
was diagnosed with Gulf War Syndrome, then post-traumatic stress
disorder and finally was labelled a hypochondriac.
But Sue Riordon said her husband's symptoms weren't caused by stress
or his imagination. She said even his eyes changed colour.
"They went to a beautiful baby blue. They went to a blue-ish grey and
about a year before his death they were almost opaque."
Terry Riordon asked his wife to have his body tested for any
mysterious ailments after he died. Tissues from his kidney, liver,
brain and bones underwent intricate testing.
CBC News released the results Monday morning which found evidence of
depleted uranium still in his body nine years after the war ended.
Dr. Asaph Durakovic, a nuclear medicine specialist in Washington, has
conducted tests for depleted uranium in the urine of veterans and
analysed the Riordon findings.
"We found in the bone tissue, particularly cancerous bone, that it
contained depleted uranium," he said.
Durakovic believes when missiles exploded, radioactive dust was
breathed in by veterans. He says Riordon's tests show those
radioactive particles never left the body.
Eggleton said the department conducted its own tests on some Canadian
soldiers but found no problem with depleted uranium. But he said the
military will look at the Riordon results seriously and will arrange
tests for any soldier who believes he may be a victim of depleted
uranium.
fe...@mscd.edu
sdil...@mindspring.com wrote:
> I have a hard time buying into all the hype about DU being dangerous.
> It has been used in aircraft since the 50's as balance weights for
> flight controls (ailerons, elevators, rudders). Mechanics are exposed
> to the stuff on a daily basis yet there is not a higher incidence of
> luekimia or other cancers among this group than there is in the
general
> population. In addition while the Gulf war was the first use of DU
> munitions in anger the munitions have been around since the 70's and
> fired extensivly in live fire exercises with no ill effects (except to
> the targets)
>
> -Seth
>
I remember during the Vietnam War, one of the soldiers drank the Agent
Orgage stuff before media cameras saying it was totally harmless!
http://www.defencenews.com/?
action=display&article=5151229&template=defence/stories.txt&index=recent
UN Finds Radioactivity in Kosovo
The Associated Press, Sat 6 Jan 2001
GENEVA (AP) — U.N. scientists who visited 11 sites struck by NATO
munitions in Kosovo say they found signs of radioactivity at eight of
them — the latest evidence in a growing debate about the dangers of
depleted uranium, a material used in some NATO weapons.
The 11 sites that the U.N. Environment Program visited were among 112
identified by NATO as having been targeted by ordnance containing
depleted uranium during the 1999 Kosovo bombardment. UNEP collected
soil, water and vegetation samples and also conducted tests on
buildings and destroyed vehicles.
``At eight sites, the team found either slightly higher amounts of Beta-
radiation immediately at or around the holes left by depleted uranium
ammunition, or pieces and remnants of ammunition, such as sabots and
penetrators,'' Pekka Haavisto, the chairman of the assessment team,
said in a statement Friday.
UNEP said it is analyzing the depleted uranium samples it collected to
determine whether they present health or environmental risks. It said
it expects to have the results in early March.
``It was surprising to find remnants of depleted uranium ammunition
just lying on the ground, 1 1/2 years after the conflict. Also, the
ground directly beneath the ammunition was slightly contaminated,''
Haavisto said. ``For this reason, we paid special attention to the
risks that uranium toxicity might pose to the ground waters around the
sites.''
The agency has advised that precautions be taken when handling
ammunition found at the sites where depleted uranium was used.
A heavy metal with low levels of radioactivity, depleted uranium is
used in ammunition to penetrate tanks and other armor. Some scientists
believe the dust created when rounds hit targets may be harmful, but
studies of Gulf War troops have found no proof it caused diseases.
The controversy in Europe over NATO's use of depleted uranium in Bosnia
in 1994-95 and later in Kosovo flared in December after Italy's Defense
Minister Sergio Mattarella announced an investigation of 30 cases of
illness involving soldiers who served in the region, 12 of whom
developed cancer. Five have died of leukemia.
Most recently, NATO member Denmark's military health authorities
announced that one Danish veteran of Kosovo is being treated for
leukemia. They declined to release any other information. Denmark's top
military authority Surgeon Gen. Hans-Michael Jelsdorf said Friday he
would consider an investigation after a meeting at the NATO
headquarters in Brussels on Jan. 15.
Spain, Portugal, Greece, Finland, Belgium, Turkey, Russia, Bulgaria,
Czech Republic and the European Union have said they would screen
troops and check radiation levels where their peacekeepers are serving.
The Pentagon said this week that regular health checks have revealed no
problems with leukemia and other illnesses among U.S. troops who served
in the Balkans.
> Envirocrime wrote:
> >
> > CREATING SMOG SMOG SMOG ....
> >
> > ``We share those concerns,'' said Lt. Col. Paul Phillips. He said
the
> > United States has conducted many studies on depleted uranium (NOT OH
> > HEALTH?],
> > particularly since the 1991 Gulf War when the weapons were first
used.
> >
> > ``In each study, we've come away convinced that the use of depleted
> > uranium munitions does not present significant [BEWARE OF THE
AMBIGOUS WORD
> > SIGNIFICANT - ARE WE TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND QUANTITES?] or residual
> > environmental or health risks,'' Phillips said.
> >
> > NATO spokeswoman Simone de Manso in Brussels, said: ``According to
our
> > knowledge from independent research ... there is no study [DID THEY
CONDUCT
> > ONE?]that can
> > prove a direct link between certain types of diseases of which
people
> > are now afraid and contact with depleted uranium.''
>
J Wootton
> In article <3A55E4...@mindspring.com>,
> sdil...@mindspring.com wrote:
> > I have a hard time buying into all the hype about DU being dangerous.
> > It has been used in aircraft since the 50's as balance weights for
> > flight controls (ailerons, elevators, rudders). Mechanics are exposed
> > to the stuff on a daily basis yet there is not a higher incidence of
> > luekimia or other cancers among this group than there is in the
> general
> > population. In addition while the Gulf war was the first use of DU
> > munitions in anger the munitions have been around since the 70's and
> > fired extensivly in live fire exercises with no ill effects (except to
> > the targets)
> >
> > -Seth
> >
>
> I remember during the Vietnam War, one of the soldiers drank the Agent
> Orgage stuff before media cameras saying it was totally harmless!
Bet that soldier is shutting his mouth now (if he's still alive).
http://www.goiv.com/ao/va_brief/b3-1.html
J
karljo...@my-deja.com
af...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott Nudds) wrote:
Hi tumbleweed. Welcome back.
> Seth Dillon (sdil...@mindspring.com) wrote:
> : In my not so humble opinion I think the hysteria that is being
raised is
> : groundless. You would probably find more of a health risk in the
> : expelled gasses from propellant used to send the DU bullets on
their way
> : or in the gasses realesed when a bomb explodes.
>
> Military will examine depleted uranium tests - Feb 7, 2000
> --------------------------------------------
> - CBC Newsworld -
>
> HALIFAX - Defence Minister Art Eggleton said Monday the military will
> look closely at medical tests that found disturbing levels of depleted
> uranium in the body of a Nova Scotia soldier who had served in the
> Gulf War.
>
> Eggleton said the military is also willing to test any members of the
> Canadian Forces who fear they may have been exposed to the radioactive
> material that was used in weapons in the Gulf.
>
> "I think it's very sad, Mr. Riordon's death and the results are
> something we need to look at and will look at carefully," said
> Eggleton outside the House of Commons.
Good to look at new information when it comes up.
> But in the past, defence officials have dismissed the health risks of
> depleted uranium to soldiers during conflicts.
>
> Terry Riordon of Yarmouth, N.S., died last year after a series of
> illnesses he believed were connected to his time in the Gulf. Riordon
> was diagnosed with Gulf War Syndrome, then post-traumatic stress
> disorder and finally was labelled a hypochondriac.
>
> But Sue Riordon said her husband's symptoms weren't caused by stress
> or his imagination. She said even his eyes changed colour.
>
> "They went to a beautiful baby blue. They went to a blue-ish grey and
> about a year before his death they were almost opaque."
>
> Terry Riordon asked his wife to have his body tested for any
> mysterious ailments after he died. Tissues from his kidney, liver,
> brain and bones underwent intricate testing.
>
> CBC News released the results Monday morning which found evidence of
> depleted uranium still in his body nine years after the war ended.
>
> Dr. Asaph Durakovic, a nuclear medicine specialist in Washington, has
> conducted tests for depleted uranium in the urine of veterans and
> analysed the Riordon findings.
An important question is, was it depleted uranium, or natural uranium?
Clearly he would have some of both. The Uranium Medical Project
attempted to determine, via isotope analysis, if a significant amount
of the uranium was DU rather than natural uranium. I would say that
their methodology may in fact need rethinking.
From the Uranium Medical Project's web site http://www.umproject.org/
(This is from a more recent mass spectrometry test of soldiers urine,
rather than from the test mentioned about Mr. Riordon. KJ)
"Further analysis showed that all ten samples were positive for the
presence of uranium 234 and 236, indicating contamination with
uranium isotopes not present in nature, i.e. artificially produced
in the process of uranium enrichment. "
Clearly they are mistaken here. Uranium 234 and 236 are both naturally
occurring (and can't possibly be created in the process of enrichment).
Thus, one of this organization's methods of determining if the uranium
in the urine is from DU munitions, is inaccurate.
> "We found in the bone tissue, particularly cancerous bone, that it
> contained depleted uranium," he said.
>
> Durakovic believes when missiles exploded, radioactive dust was
> breathed in by veterans. He says Riordon's tests show those
> radioactive particles never left the body.
>
> Eggleton said the department conducted its own tests on some Canadian
> soldiers but found no problem with depleted uranium. But he said the
> military will look at the Riordon results seriously and will arrange
> tests for any soldier who believes he may be a victim of depleted
> uranium.
There may in fact be a danger to some people if the levels of uranium
they were exposed to were high enough. There was quite a few other
health hazards people were exposed to during the gulf war. Smoke from
several hundred burning oil wells for one. As with any such situation,
the key is to gather data scientifically and assess it objectively.
Condolences to all who died or were injured in the Gulf war.
Karl Johanson
Seth Dillon
the engagements? They would have had a higher exposure to the material
than the coalition forces firing the weapons. Considering the great
lengths Saddam's propoganda machine goes to discredit the United States
I would believe that any ill effects suffered by his troops would be
broadcast loudly.
Scott Nudds
: Wouldn't it be more appropriate to test the Iraqi soldiers who survived
: the engagements? They would have had a higher exposure to the material
: than the coalition forces firing the weapons. Considering the great
: lengths Saddam's propoganda machine goes to discredit the United States
: I would believe that any ill effects suffered by his troops would be
: broadcast loudly.
Early reports from Iraq - both from Iraqui officials and independent
observers, claimed an abnormally high level of radiation associated
disease in children who were exposed to sites where DU weapons were used.
In fact these reports started at about the same time U.S. soldiers began
to complain about Gulf War Syndrome.
Seth Dillon
Interesting. Not that I doubt your word, but can you point me to where
these reports were published so I can read them?
-Seth
Scott Nudds
: > observers, claimed an abnormally high level of radiation associated
: > disease in children who were exposed to sites where DU weapons were used.
: > In fact these reports started at about the same time U.S. soldiers began
: > to complain about Gulf War Syndrome.
Seth Dillon (sdil...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: Interesting. Not that I doubt your word, but can you point me to where
: these reports were published so I can read them?
Although I've been following the issue, in my view there has been
insufficient evidence to warrant archival of the significant number of
articles that have appeared over the years. Nevertheless..
/* Written 7:50 PM Jun 1, 1998 by blazing in igc:mideast.news */
/* ---------- "DEPLETED URANIUM: BLAZING TATTLES" ---------- */
DEPLETED URANIUM: BLAZING TATTLES LINKED FROM THE BBC
------------------------------------------------------
There is a web link from the British Broadcasting Company (BBC) to a
Blazing Tattles article, "Dead Children, Sick Soldiers," published in
Blazing Tattles, January 1996.* The BBC article from which it is linked
located is at: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/
english/world/middle_east/newsid_101000/ 101863.stm.
BBC article is called: "Saddam says Britain owes compensation"
(5/28/98). The link to the BT article may be found under "Internet
Links -- Depleted Uranium: It's use in Iraq"
<http://www.best.com/~cnorman/blazing/uranium.html>.
THE BBC ARTICLE
---------------
Summary: "The Iraqi government has told the UN that children are
suffering from cancers. Iraq is demanding compensation from the UK for
damage caused by depleted uranium (DU) shells during the Gulf War."
A recent admission by the UK regarding DU shells has given the impetus
for Iraq's current claims that the UK's use of DU shells caused both
"unfamiliar diseases" as well as bone and foetal abnormalities in
communities close to where the shells had fallen. Shells were made of
depleted uranium because the material is so hard that it can pierce the
bodies of tanks. "The shells have also led to an increase in child
leukaemia," Iraq's Foreign Minister alleges.
Labor MP Tam Dalyell has already called for the UK government to
cooperate with the Iraqi government to investigate the Gulf War
syndrome. Ex-servicemen and women are suffering from a condition caused
either from inoculations or from some weapons used during the war. [No
mention was made by BBC of petroleum fumes; petroleum in the drinking
and shower water; diet beverages whose sweetener had broken down from
the heat into nerve poisons; infectious agents; bombings of facilities
that made nuclear products, biological or chemical weapons; or
pesticides applied on clothing and skin; and the interactions or
synergistic effects of any of the above.] "Mr Dalyell said he believed
the Iraqi people referred to in the UN letter could be suffering the
same [Gulf War syndrome] condition."
BLAZING TATTLES COMMENTARY
--------------------------
At the time the Blazing Tattles article appeared in January of 1996, it
was posted to various groups on the Internet. At one such group,
<sci.environment>, various "goons" critiqued the article with the claim
that depleted uranium was had little radioactivity and could cause no
damage to human beings. In retrospect, that was obviously not science
and not truth. Lies, defaming truth, and defaming those who say the
truth, still goes on at this Usenet group by goons.
*Copyright (C), New Dawn 1996, No. 34 (January/February 1996), GPO Box
3126FF, Melbourne, VIC 3001, Australia.
Scott Nudds
: Hi tumbleweed. Welcome back.
Tumblin, Tumblin, Tumblin... Out of Hanford Rollen...
Tumblin, keep on tumblin. Can't hide....
: > CBC News released the results Monday morning which found evidence of
: > depleted uranium still in his body nine years after the war ended.
: >
: > Dr. Asaph Durakovic, a nuclear medicine specialist in Washington, has
: > conducted tests for depleted uranium in the urine of veterans and
: > analysed the Riordon findings.
Johanson barks:
: Clearly they are mistaken here. Uranium 234 and 236 are both naturally
: occurring (and can't possibly be created in the process of enrichment).
: Thus, one of this organization's methods of determining if the uranium
: in the urine is from DU munitions, is inaccurate.
Johanson is distorting the truth here. All isotopes of Uranium occur in
nature, and all are produced (not net) in the cores of nucelar reactors. -
again a matter of degree.
The natural abundance of U234 is .0058%. The abundance of U236 is so low
it doesn't appear on my charts.
Johanson is therefore wrong on all counts.
: > Eggleton said the department conducted its own tests on some Canadian
: > soldiers but found no problem with depleted uranium. But he said the
: > military will look at the Riordon results seriously and will arrange
: > tests for any soldier who believes he may be a victim of depleted
: > uranium.
Johanson responds:
: There may in fact be a danger to some people if the levels of uranium
: they were exposed to were high enough. There was quite a few other
: health hazards people were exposed to during the gulf war. Smoke from
: several hundred burning oil wells for one. As with any such situation,
: the key is to gather data scientifically and assess it objectively.
I agree. At this point there are conflicting interests and conflicting
stories. While there are increasing reports blaming DU for health
problems, there is no consensus view developed or rapidly developing.
Unbiased investigation is in order. I personally suspect that DU at
least as it's radioactive content will be absolved of disease causation.
Nevertheless, the reports persist and are increasing.
fungee
af...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott Nudds) wrote:
> karljo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> : Clearly they are mistaken here. Uranium 234 and 236 are both naturally
> : occurring (and can't possibly be created in the process of enrichment).
> : Thus, one of this organization's methods of determining if the uranium
> : in the urine is from DU munitions, is inaccurate.
>
> Johanson is distorting the truth here. All isotopes of Uranium occur in
> nature, and all are produced (not net) in the cores of nucelar reactors. -
> again a matter of degree.
>
> The natural abundance of U234 is .0058%. The abundance of U236 is so low
> it doesn't appear on my charts.
I dont' think all isotopes of uranium occur in nature. E.g. U242.
Anyway, the abundance of U236 is very low. It's not so low in
reprocessed uranium. I recall hearing that U236 is a contaminant of
enrichment operations due to the department of energy reprocessing
operations. Now that the cold war is over, the U236 contamination is
way down. I think it would be possible to determine the source of
uranium based upon isotopic analyses.
>
> : > Eggleton said the department conducted its own tests on some Canadian
> : > soldiers but found no problem with depleted uranium. But he said the
> : > military will look at the Riordon results seriously and will arrange
> : > tests for any soldier who believes he may be a victim of depleted
> : > uranium.
>
> Johanson responds:
> : There may in fact be a danger to some people if the levels of uranium
> : they were exposed to were high enough. There was quite a few other
> : health hazards people were exposed to during the gulf war. Smoke from
> : several hundred burning oil wells for one. As with any such situation,
> : the key is to gather data scientifically and assess it objectively.
>
> I agree. At this point there are conflicting interests and conflicting
> stories. While there are increasing reports blaming DU for health
> problems, there is no consensus view developed or rapidly developing.
>
> Unbiased investigation is in order. I personally suspect that DU at
> least as it's radioactive content will be absolved of disease causation.
I for one would not want to breathe in burning DU. My recollection is
that when DU pierces armor, it burns. One more, if not a lesser one,
hazard of combat.
--
fungee... Unsolicited commercial email (spam) is not desired. Senders
of spam will help me beta test new virii, mailbombs, and/or DoS attacks.
Sending spam to this address constitutes agreement to these terms.
karljo...@my-deja.com
karljo...@my-deja.com wrote:
A correction to part of my post. I was confused by the claim that U236
is added during enrichment.
> An important question is, was it depleted uranium, or natural uranium?
> Clearly he would have some of both. The Uranium Medical Project
> attempted to determine, via isotope analysis, if a significant amount
> of the uranium was DU rather than natural uranium. I would say that
> their methodology may in fact need rethinking.
>
> From the Uranium Medical Project's web site http://www.umproject.org/
>
> (This is from a more recent mass spectrometry test of soldiers urine,
> rather than from the test mentioned about Mr. Riordon. KJ)
>
> "Further analysis showed that all ten samples were positive for
the
> presence of uranium 234 and 236, indicating contamination with
> uranium isotopes not present in nature, i.e. artificially
produced
> in the process of uranium enrichment. "
>
> Clearly they are mistaken here. Uranium 234 and 236 are both naturally
> occurring (and can't possibly be created in the process of
>enrichment).
They are mistaken in only 2 of the 3 points. My last paragraph should
read. "U234 is naturally occuring. It is in higher concentrations in
natural uranium than in DU. The presence of U234 does not indicate DU
as the source of contamination. Neither of these isotopes are created
in the process of enrichment. DU produced from the enrichment of
natural uranium will have some U234 and no U236. Spent nuclear fuel
contains U236. Furthur reading suggests that if DU is produced from
spent nuclear fuel then it will have U236. The percentage amount of
U236 will vary significantly depending on how much (if any) of the
uranium is from spent fuel. Determining what percentage of the body
burden of uranium is from DU via this method would be complex."
fungee
While U236 is generally considered to be a man-made isotope, it did
occur naturally at Oklo. Some extremely small amounts are also likely
in uranium ore due to the absorption of neutrons by U235 from the
natural spontaneous fission of U234, U235, and U238.
U234 and 236 aren't created in the enrichment process, but if they are
present, they are enriched along with U235 when it is separated from
U238, since their mass is closer to 235 than 238.
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Ed
the advent of the nuclear age, the reality is that today U-236 is
present in the environment in "trace" amounts. It is true that the US
recycled spent nuclear fuel through its enrichment cascades and it is
true that DU can contain trace amounts of U-236, but it is incorrect
to state that the presence of U-236 in biological materials is a tag
for DU exposure. The UMP was taken to task on this issue at a
conference in Paris last year (2000).
Ed
gban...@my-deja.com
> The answer to your question is no. I just wanted to point out that DU
> is nothing new and thousands have been exposed to it for long periods
> with no documented evidence of long term health risks due to that
> exposure.
> In my not so humble opinion I think the hysteria
> that is being raised is
> groundless. You would probably find more of a health risk in the
> expelled gasses from propellant used to send
> the DU bullets on their way
> or in the gasses realesed when a bomb explodes.
When the round explodes, it releases DU dust, which is quite
different from the bulk DU.
For example - the Hg (Merqury) vapors are regarded as highly toxic,
but in the past medics have prescribed liquid Hg in big ammounts, and
the lucky patients that succed not to breathe the vapors were OK.
Also, in your aircrafts maybe there are tones of asbestos, but as
long as you do not breathe its dust, you are fine.
G.B.
Seth Dillon
What is Depleted Uranium?
Depleted Uranium (DU) is only used as a penetrator. It is not a warhead,
bomb or explosive.
For what is Depleted Uranium used on the battlefield?
It is used to penetrate the armour of modern, the residual penetrator
(and the high temperature fragments created as it passes through the
armour) striking everything inside the tank and setting fire to its fuel
and ammunition. In the Balkans, this would include the M84A (Russian
T-72) main battle tanks of the Bosnian Serb VRS and the Serbian VJ
forces. In the Gulf war, some of the Iraqi tanks were of the same T-72
type, manned by Saddam Hussein’s Republican Guards.
Who used it in the Balkans?
During the Balkans operations from 1992 to 1996, only the US Air Force
acknowledges its use in some of its 30mm cannon shells fired from the
GAU-8A cannon. It is true that some guided weapons used depleted uranium
to increase the penetration effect and that the 20mm Phalanx close-in
weapon system, used to protect warships at sea from sea-skimming
missiles, also has a percentage of DU rounds.
What about the British Army?
The British Army fired 88 DU rounds against Iraqi tanks in the Gulf war;
no such rounds were fired during the Bosnian and Kosovan campaigns. No
British aircraft are equipped with DU warheads on their weapons,
according to official reports. DU rounds are ‘war-use only’.
Any other uses?
DU is very dense so is also used as a counter-balance for large
commercial aircraft, including the Boeing 747, and in yacht keels.
Can Depleted Uranium be replaced?
DU can be replaced (Britain, France, Russia and the US are the only
commonly acknowledged users of DU as the penetrator material in kinetic
energy munitions). The great majority of armies use kinetic energy
munitions with tungsten alloy penetrators; however, these have a 20%
lower penetrative performance, and the sintered materials used to make
them are more expensive. Tungsten may not emit radiation, but, in common
with DU, its particles are poisonous.
It is alleged that DU causes leukaemia?
Leukaemia is caused by (inter alia):
- Ionising radiation - x-rays, for example
- Derivatives of benzene (hydraulic fluid, lubricating oil, fuel oil,
ceramic armour and other products found in modern armoured vehicles)
- Viruses
What happens when a DU round hits a tank?
The DU penetrator hits the tank armour, both the penetrator and armour
partially liquefying under pressure. Once the armour has been
perforated, that part of the penetrator which has not melted, together
with the molten armour and fragments that break away from the interior,
ricochet inside the vehicle. This usually causes a fire. Studies in the
USA, UK and France show that when an armoured vehicle burns at about
10,000 degrees C, the resulting oxidisation of the materials aboard,
including benzene products and depleted uranium, can create particulates
that are harmful to the human body; ingested they can affect the lungs
and kidneys.
fungee
...in significant quantities.
The natural Oklo reactor clearly had U236, and I suspect very small
quantities of U236 exist in uranium ores due to the absorption of
natural neutrons by U235.
Your statement is generally accepted as true, though.
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oinko_boinko
> Early reports from Iraq - both from Iraqui officials and independent
> observers, claimed an abnormally high level of radiation associated
> disease in children who were exposed to sites where DU weapons were used.
> In fact these reports started at about the same time U.S. soldiers began
> to complain about Gulf War Syndrome.
That would be pretty revealing, since Depleted Uranium isn't
radioactive. [Hint for Nuddnik: that's why it's called "depleted".]
Perhaps they were exposed to dust from Iraqi weapons plants? Or
maybe it's just another plot to discredit Saddam and Stalin.
fe...@mscd.edu
Oinko Boinko wrote:
> af...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott Nudds) wrote:
>
> > Early reports from Iraq - both from Iraqui officials and
independent
> > observers, claimed an abnormally high level of radiation associated
> > disease in children who were exposed to sites where DU weapons were
used.
> > In fact these reports started at about the same time U.S. soldiers
began
> > to complain about Gulf War Syndrome.
>
> That would be pretty revealing, since Depleted Uranium isn't
> radioactive. [Hint for Nuddnik: that's why it's called "depleted".]
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm
DEPLETED URANIUM
Q. What is depleted uranium?
A. Depleted uranium is the by-product of the process for converting
("enriching") natural uranium for use as nuclear fuel or nuclear
weapons. Depleted uranium is approximately 40 percent less radioactive
than natural uranium. The depleted uranium used in armor-piercing
munitions is also widely used in civilian industry, primarily for
stabilizers in airplanes and boats.
Q. What makes depleted uranium a potential hazard?
A. Depleted uranium is a heavy metal that is also slightly radioactive.
Heavy metals (uranium, lead, tungsten, etc.) have chemical toxicity
properties that, in high doses, can cause poisoning and health effects.
A common misconception is that depleted uranium's primary hazard is
radiological. This is not the case under most battlefield exposure
scenarios. Depleted uranium emits alpha and beta particles, and gamma
rays. Alpha particles, the primary radiation type produced by depleted
uranium, are blocked by skin; while beta particles are blocked by the
boots and battle dress utility uniform (BDUs) typically worn by service
members. While gamma rays are pure energy and are highly penetrating,
the amount of gamma radiation emitted by depleted uranium is extremely
low.
The 120mm sabot rounds fired from the main guns of U.S. Abrams series
tanks figure prominently in most of the depleted uranium exposure
scenarios and incidents investigated to date. The round uses a 10.7 lb.
depleted uranium penetrator that is approximately 18 inches long and
1.5 inches thick. When fired, or after "cooking off" in fires or
explosions, the depleted uranium rod, now unshielded, or exposed, poses
an extremely low radiological threat as long as it remains outside the
body. Internalized in sufficient quantity, however, via metal fragments
or dust-like particles and oxides, depleted uranium may pose a long-
term health hazard to personnel. However, the medical significance of a
specific exposure scenario is dependent on a number of factors,
including particle size distribution and solubility as well as the
amount of depleted uranium taken into the body.
Also:
The Draft EA states in Section 4.1.4 that, "Since DU has a half-life of
4.5 billion years, there would be very little decay of those DU
materials." RAMA believes the EA must consider the radioactive decay
products when looking at the environmental consequences of DU, and
uranium daughter products must not be discounted.
When uranium-238 emits an alpha particle, it is transformed to another
radionuclide, thorium-234 which in turn decays to proactinium-234.
After 15 decays, the chain ends with stable Lead-206. One of the decay
products in this chain, radon-222, is an inert and radioactive gas that
can be released to the air. Another decay product, radium-226 is, water-
soluble. Some decay products, such as bismuth-214, are gamma emitters
[Marvin Resnikoff, Health and Safety Impact of Nuclear Metals
Incorporated, 2nd Report, Radioactive Waste Management Associates,
prepared for Concerned Citizens About Nuclear Metals Incorporated,
October 23, 1991]. This is especially crucial since the proposed action
is for an "undefined" term of use (Section 2.2).
The EA also ignores research of other military services when it
discounts the environmental and public health impacts of DU. Consider
these findings of the Health and Environmental Consequences of Depleted
Uranium Use in the U.S. Army, a technical report of the Army
Environmental Policy Institute:
"No available technology can significantly change the inherent chemical
and radiological toxicity of DU. These are intrinsic properties of
uranium." [ p. xxii]
"Radioactive DU is a low-level radioactive waste and, therefore, must
be disposed in a licensed repository." [ p. 154]
"DU is inherently toxic." [p. 113]
Finally:
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du/du_sec02.htm#1. Radiological Properties
of DU
Depleted uranium—described above as a metallic remnant of one of
several processes that begin with uranium ore—is composed of three
isotopes of uranium (234U, 235U, and 238U). Depleted uranium, like all
uranium and other elements, is composed of atoms; the basic building
block of nature. Atoms consist of atomic particles called neutrons
(neutral particles), protons (positively charged particles), and
electrons (negatively charged and relatively massless). For any
element, like uranium, the number of protons and electrons determine
the chemical properties. Atoms of the same element can have different
numbers of neutrons. These different atoms of the same element are
called isotopes. Isotopes of an element have the same chemical
properties, but may have different nuclear or radiological properties.
In nature, uranium consists of the isotopes 234U, 235U, and 238U in a
certain ratio. Depleted uranium has a lower content of 234U and 235U,
which have been removed in the enrichment process.
The number of heavy particles (protons and neutrons) in the nucleus of
an atom determines the stability of the element. Unstable
elements ‘decay’ through a nuclear transformation process into new
elements called progeny or daughter products. Each daughter product has
a lower atomic weight than the unstable parent isotope. This process of
decay—radioactivity—emits one or more forms of ionizing radiation
(among them, alpha particles, beta particles, neutrons, X-rays, or
gamma rays) during each nuclear transformation. This decay process
continues until a stable (non-radioactive) element is produced. For
example, after completing several stages of the radioactive decay
process, 238U becomes lead. A more thorough description of the origins
of depleted uranium can be found at Tab C.
2. Radiological Effects
As it decays, DU emits alpha, beta, and gamma radiation. An
understanding of how DU’s emissions may cause health effects can be
drawn from existing knowledge of how radiation, in general, causes
health effects.
Radiation is everywhere. People live their lives being bombarded by
gamma rays, neutrons, and charged particles produced by materials in
nature and even in their own bodies. This ever-present background
radiation has persisted for as long as the earth has existed. Humans
have evolved and developed in this ionizing radiation environment.
In discussing health effects relating to ionizing radiation, the
term "dose" is used. "Dose" comes from the early medical use of x-rays,
much as a dose of medicine is measured in grains or ounces. It refers
to the amount of radiation energy absorbed by an organ, tissue, or
cell, measured in rems.[10] Today, the average American receives a dose
of 0.3 rem every year from natural sources—radioactive materials in
rocks and soil, cosmic radiation, radon, and radioactivity in our
bodies. Over a 70-year lifetime, the average dose is 21 rems. In some
areas of the world, people receive much higher doses from background
radiation. For example, in areas of India and Brazil the ground is
covered with monazite sand, a radioactive ore. Radiation exposure rates
there are many times the average background levels elsewhere. People
who live in these areas receive doses of up to about 0.7 rem each year
from the gamma radiation alone.[11] These levels combined with the
other sources of background radiation (cosmic rays, radon, etc.), cause
average doses that are about three times more than the US average. Yet
these people show no unusual rates of cancer or other diseases linked
to radiation.[12]
oinko_boinko
> DEPLETED URANIUM
>
> Q. What makes depleted uranium a potential hazard?
>
> A. Depleted uranium is a heavy metal that is also slightly radioactive.
> Heavy metals (uranium, lead, tungsten, etc.) have chemical toxicity
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> properties that, in high doses, can cause poisoning and health effects.
>
> A common misconception is that depleted uranium's primary hazard is
> radiological. This is not the case under most battlefield exposure
<snip!>
> The Draft EA states in Section 4.1.4 that, "Since DU has a half-life of
> 4.5 billion years, there would be very little decay of those DU
4.5 billion year half-life? That's not very radioactive, is it?
Especially considering that our bodies are full of carbon-14 which
has a far shorter half-life.
Thank you for making my point.
Envirocrime
contradiction's sake. You know nothing about this subject, that is obvious
by the lack of data that you have posted. I thank the other members for
enlightening us. If you have a point to make, please do so with some data,
formulas, etc.
oinko_boinko
I made my point, smart guy. To wit, that people who jump up and
down over the "radiation danger" from U-238 are full of shit.
What part of this escapes you?
Amos Keppler
"Oinko" here, is a paid disruptor of free information.
http://w1.2561.telia.com/~u256100380/liesofaninsanesociety.html
He and his masters don't want a discussion.
================================
WEEK 2 January 1st to 7th 2001
“DEPLETED” URANIUM STRIKES AGAIN
Lately a host of diseases formerly known as the “Gulf-Syndrome” has been
re-named the “Balkan-Syndrome”.
Grenades “enhanced” with “depleted” uranium used during the Gulf war ten years
ago caused a lot of people, among them a host of American soldiers to develop
Leukemia and other cancers. A substantial number has died. To this day the United
States government and its military authorities have denied that there is any
connection between the unnatural high number of cancer cases and the use of the
so-called “DU-ammunition”. They have also refused any responsibility for those
afflicted.
The last few years, however, there have been major developments in the case.
Recently an abnormal high number of Norwegian, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian,
Greek and Danish soldiers serving in the United Nation battalion in Kosovo
following the NATO attack on Serbia, have been contracting cancer as well. Both
NATO and American military sources are keeping up the policy of “non-admission”,
but the evidence is mounting. The Italian government has called for “a thorough
investigation into the matter”. The issue is no longer one left solely to the
American government to decide.
Soldiers were warned before going to be “cautious” when approaching destroyed
tanks and such.
Many have speculated why American (and British) military are using
DU-ammunition. The obvious explanation is the increase in destructive power. But
there are also others who believe and claim there are other, murkier
explanations.
The nuclear experiments during the fifties and sixties on soldiers and also the
general population are also something American civilian and military authorities
have refused to take any sort of responsibility for. On the contrary: A general
was caught in the act, so to speak, while saying that “the people of the city of
StGeorge, Utah, weren’t a very productive part of the population”. Nothing is
ever been done about the general in question or the fact that a radioactive cloud
killed a major part of that area’s population. No one is convicted of anything,
but has instead been rewarded tons and tons of medals and career opportunities.
Experiments on “feeble minded” and prisoners and also parts of the general
population, where people were given direct injections of lethal radioactive
isotopes. Chemical and bacteriological warfare and experiments on volunteer
students for money and scholarships. These facts and more is an integrated part
of the Post World War 2 “make up”. No one is ever made responsible for any of it.
And then there is perhaps the most important connection: The ties between the
military in nuclear power countries and the corporations owning nuclear power
plants. The nuclear industry has always been protected by layers upon layers of
secrecy and precisely those excellent relations to the industrial/military
complex. Not so strange perhaps, since they’re an integrated part of it. Of
course. They’re a necessity to it.
It does seem far-fetched, doesn’t it, and even insane, to use weapons on their
own population, their own soldiers?
Well, someone will claim that it, and the latest developments, testing people’s
tolerance to hard radioactivity, is merely a logical extension of an already
insane system. And that the last ten years of actions on their part are more than
suggesting that they’re getting even “bolder”.
WEEK 3 Jan 8th to 14th 2001
BUSINESS AS USUAL CONCERNING SELLAFIELD
The British environmental protection agency has relented on its demand that the
nuclear re-processing plant in Sellafield should reduce its spills with 80
percent during 2001. It says in a statement that they were “swayed by the owner’s
persuasive economic arguments”. The “decision” has caused an outcry of disbelief
and protests both domestically and internationally. During its 40+ years of
operation the plant christened Windscale, later to be re-christened Sellafield,
has made the Irish Sea among the most radioactive marine areas in the world,
Pigeons to be dubbed “flying radioactive waste” and number of cancers among the
human population in the area surrounding the plant to be far higher than average.
The Norwegian and Swedish authorities have also traced its easily recognizable
radioactive isotopes to Scandinavian coastal areas where even in its diluted form
it has affected the marine life. Both the Swedish and Norwegian governments have
made several official protests to the British government, concerning among other
facts, that the spills have been twenty-doubled only the last seven years.
H A
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Gregory Greenman
> And then there is perhaps the most important connection: The ties between the
> military in nuclear power countries and the corporations owning nuclear power
> plants. The nuclear industry has always been protected by layers upon layers of
> secrecy and precisely those excellent relations to the industrial/military
> complex. Not so strange perhaps, since they?re an integrated part of it. Of
> course. They?re a necessity to it.
Amos,
We've been through this before - it looks to you like there is a integral
link between the nuclear power corporations and nuclear weapons building
complex in the USA - because you don't know which companies are
involved in which activities.
First, nuclear power companies:
Reactor Manufacturers -
General Electric, Westinghouse, Babcock and Wilcox, Combustion
Engineering.
Nuclear Power Plant Builders -
Bechtel, Stone and Webster, Sargent and Lundy, ... others
Nuclear Power Plant Operators -
Commonwealth Edison, Consolidated Edison, Duke Power, PG&E
and other utilities.
Now, the nuclear weapons complex:
Nuclear Weapons Design -
University of California - operator of Los Alamos and
Lawrence Livermore National Labs.
Non-nuclear components design for nuclear weapons -
Sandia National Labs - now operated by Lockheed Martin, but
during the period that most U.S. weapons were built - Sandia
was operated by AT&T
Mechanical and electrical components -
Kansas City Plant - now operated by Honeywell, but for many
years was operated by Allied Signal.
Special nuclear materials production -
Hanford and Savannah River plants. Both have had a series of
contractor-operators, Hanford was once operated by Westinghouse
but during the time that these facilities did most of their work - the
operator was DuPont.
Surveillance, inspection, modification -
Y-12 National Security complex - now operated by BWXT
Nuclear materials fabrication -
Rocky Flats [ now closed ], operated by Rockwell International.
Nuclear Weapons Assembly -
Pantex - operated by Mason and Hanger, Silas, Mason Inc.
This information is all available on the Dept. of Energy website.
It just looks like there is an integral connection between the two
industries - because you just plain didn't do your homework.
Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist