A 7063 lb lift? Sri Chinmoy
Bob
There has been much discussion on various threads about the claims of Sri Chinmoy
supporters that, in 1987, Chinmoy lifted with one arm, weights of 3081 lbs and 7063 lbs
in an overhead lift. Although a certain amount of information has been gathered about
these lifts, there are still areas that need to be researched before it can be concluded
with certainty whether Chinmoy’s claims are genuine or not. In case you are able to help
with this investigation, it is useful to set out what is known and what has yet to be
ascertained.
Jeff Chance, a Sri Chinmoy supporter in Montreal, Canada, has been very helpful in
providing on internet, scans of photographs of these lifts. On 24 July 1996, Jeff
offered to provide a few high quality photos of the lift to people who are genuinely
interested in the lifts. He asked those interested to send a SASE to his work address:
Jeff Chance, Dept. of Chemistry Rm 205, McGill University, 801 Sherbrooke St. W.,
Montreal QC CANADA, H3A 2K6.
Sri Chinmoy supporters offer two main pieces of evidence in support of these lifts as
follows:
1. THE PHOTOS OF THE LIFTS WERE INSPECTED BY SEVERAL LEADING WEIGHTLIFTERS WHO
ENDORSED THE LIFTS
In a post dated 22 July 1996, Jeff stated that these people were Henry Rappo, Heinz
Vierthaler, Andy Bostinto, Dan Lurie, Tom Carey, Frank Zane, Terry Todd, Cliff Sawyer,
Jim Smith, and Bill Pearl. In a posting on 24 July, Jeff made it clear that these people
were not present at the time of the lifts. He said that “I am almost certain there were
no “official” witnesses of this lift, only a small number of his students. Perhaps this
is why it is not recognised by Guinness? (The lifts have never been reported in the
Guinness Book of Records). In any event, Sri Chinmoy did not do this for the sake of
records, he did it to inspire people.”
Jeff said that Dr. Terry Todd, former U.S. powerlifting champion, and Professor of
Physical Education at the University of Texas (1987), stated that:
“It is spectacular. It certainly does appear that he has moved the weight both
vertically and laterally. It’s a spectacular photo. In fact, he probably lifted it
higher than the photo shows. It is rare that a photo catches the highest point of a
lift. His lift is creating all kinds of excitement. What he is doing is fantastic. He is
responsible for reviving the whole field of feats of strength.”
However, in a post by Mark Hunter dated 18 July 1996, it was stated that:
“In the July ‘87 issue of Ironman Magazine Terry Todd did an article concerning Sri
Chinmoy’s 7063.75 pound “lift”. In essence Chinmoy’s definition of the word lift took on
several incantations. As the weight increased, Chinmoy’s style and use of equipment
changed to accommodate the increases. Todd’s explanation of the 7063.75 lb lift involves
a combination of the 15 foot bar bending and the use of a supporting metal frame that
might have allowed for some of the load to move. Overzealous followers, according to the
article “ascribe to him almost superhuman power, which he simply does not possess... For
example, after he slid 303 pounds a few inches up the side of his special rack, a press
release was put out by one of the Sri Chinmoy organizations saying “Sri Chinmoy today
smashed Paul Anderson’s Guinness powerlifting record to become history’s strongest man”.
Jeff Chance, in his 24 July 1996 posting, said that he noticed the discrepancy between
the two accounts of what Dr. Todd was reputed to have said. However, Jeff did not
provide an explanation for the discrepancy.
This discrepancy needs to be investigated. I don’t know the present whereabouts of Dr
Todd. Can anyone help with this point? Does anyone have a copy of the July 1987 issue of
Ironman so that this article can be looked at in more detail? Has anyone seen articles
about these lifts in “Muscle Mag” which apparently ran stories about these lifts?
In a posting dated 19 August 1996, Jeff stated that:
“Readers of this thread should keep in mind that while there appears to be almost
exclusive disbelief of the lift on the newsgroup, many well-respected individuals in the
weightlifting community have gone on record supporting the lift. Even though they were
not present, the photos were convincing enough for them. These include Frank Zane (three
time Mr Olympia) and Bill Pearl (five time Mr Universe, 1953 AAU Mr. America, 1956 Mr
USA professional, 1974 WBBG World’s Best Built Man of the Century, 1978 elected IFBB
National Chairman of the Professional Physique Judges Committee) and many others. In
fact here below is another quote for the thread:
“Sri Chinmoy’s lift is the greatest lift in the history of mankind. I have been
weightlifting for 40 years, and I can tell you without a doubt that the force that moved
that weight is the strongest force ever exerted by a human being in the history of the
world. Never before in history has there been so much weight lifted in this style. It is
really beyond me!”
“There is no question as to whether or not it is really a world record; it is a galaxy
record. Sometimes people feel threatened by Sri Chinmoy’s achievements because these
achievements make them feel insignificant and inferior. Otherwise, they would recognise
this to be the greatest lift in history.”
“Sri Chinmoy’s weightlifting feats are like Roger Bannister’s running. Everyone said
that the 4-minute mile could not be accomplished. While Bannister was in medical school,
all the experts and doctors said it was physically impossible, so many people never
attempted to do a 4-minute mile.”
“Sri Chinmoy is showing how much of the sport is mental. He has freed himself from all
limitations. He has not let anything limit him. He would have stopped at 300 pounds if
he had not conquered his mind.”
-- Tom Carey
Coach of 1985 and 1986 Women’s National Powerlifting Team Champions
Trainer of world powerlifting champions
(excerpted)
If anyone knows any of the weightlifting people referred to above, it is important to
see if they can verify whether the information supplied by the Sri Chinmoy organization
about these lifts is genuine. Because they are such respected names in bodybuilding and
weightlifting, it is possible that, if these claims are not genuine, they may be very
unhappy to see their names being used in this way. The question has to be asked, how and
why would top experts in the weightlifting arena give such endorsements, when Jeff
Chance acknowledges that they did not actually witness the lifts?
Several posters to newsgroup threads have commented on how easy it is to “manufacture”
pictures to show just about anything. For example, the dumbells could have been plastic
imitations. Bill Keyes in a post dated 22 August 1996 said that: “Photographs won’t do
it. Even having “seen” it does not support this extraordinary claim; just ask any
magician how easy it would be to fool an audience, especially what I assume was an
already credulous audience.”
In his post dated 19 August 1996, Jeff Chance said that:
“Others have suggested that perhaps the lift is simply a giant fraud... but it stops
there. How? Are the weights filled with air? The photos CLEARLY show the bar being
lifted off the support. Was that close-up photo not revealing a crane or something that
was helping to lift the weight up?”
It is essential to see if any of the people quoted by supporters of Sri Chinmoy can be
found so that they can verify what their views are on these lifts. Because I live in New
Zealand, it is really hard for me to help with this one! Now to the second piece of
evidence put forward by Chinmoy supporters:
2. A CERTIFICATE WAS ISSUED IN 1987 BY THE AMERICAN POWERLIFTING FEDERATION FOR THE
3081 LB LIFT
In his post dated 19 August 1996, Jeff Chance quoted as follows from a posting by Dan
Griffis, a weightlifter with more than 25 years’ experience:
“Certificates can be gotten from many “official” sources. Personally, I question the
veracity of this organisation if they indeed authenticated either of these lifts.”
Jeff went on to say that: “Dan Griffis questions the veracity of the American
Powerlifting Federation with regard to the certificate issued for the 3081 lb lift. I
invite Dan (or anyone else) to provide some substance for the claim of non-authenticity
of this certificate.
Here is the information on the certificate:
AMERICAN POWERLIFTING FEDERATION
This is to certify that Sri Chinmoy is a WORLD RECORD HOLDER
Lift: One Arm Support
Weight: 3081.75 lbs
Weight Class: 165 lbs
Category: Feats of Strength
Age Group: 55-59
Date: 1-20-87
and signed by CHAIRMAN (it appears to be) Ernie Frantz
It needs to be stressed that the AMERICAN Powerlifting Federation (APF) is NOT the same
organisation as the UNITED STATES Powerlifting Federation. The latter organisation is
easy to communicate with and has its own site on the worldwide web. However, after
receiving advice from the United States Powerlifting Federation, it was ascertained that
the APF is associated with the Ernie Frantz Health Studio located at 60 S Bwy, Aurora,
IL 60505-3326. I have not, as yet, been able to obtain any information from the APF
about Chinmoy’s 3081 lb certificate.
It is possible that the Ernie Frantz referred to by Jeff Chance above, is the same
person who is now with the APF in Illinois. So, it would be really good if Ernie could
supply us with some information about whether Chinmoy’s 3081 lb certificate is genuine
or not.
For those of you who have not followed earlier posts about these lifts, the 7063.75 lb
lift was said by Jeff Chance (22 July 1996 posting) to comprise 68 dumbells (34 on each
side of the bar) weighing a total of 6865 5/8 lbs, to which was added the weight of the
bar and the truss which weighed 198 1/8 lbs. The truss was a special rack that was built
to prevent the bar from bending and it was not supported to the overall structure which
supported the weight about 5.5 feet in the air.
I have been asked why I started the thread about Chinmoy’s alleged lifts. The reason is
simple. I have three young friends in their early twenties (about 35 years younger than
me) who, 2 years ago were all studying at University and were looking forward to their
various planned careers. They joined Sri Chinmoy’s group merely to learn meditation but,
after about 6 months, they all joined Sri Chinmoy’s group as students (disciples) of Sri
Chinmoy. None of these people had ever previously planned to live like nuns in the
Catholic Church. They have now given up their studies, live celibate lives, believe in
reincarnation, are vegetarian, and spend all their money in travelling twice a year from
New Zealand to New York for Sri Chinmoy’s festivals. Relations with parents and former
friends has become strained. The parents of these three young people have been told not
to even discuss Sri Chinmoy’s activities with their children or they will cut off
communications altogether. These Chinmoy students have made much of the fact that they
have been lead to believe that Sri Chinmoy is the greatest weightlifter the world has
ever known. I said to these three young people that, because I have a computer, I would
ask people who are more expert than I am what their views are on these lifts. Despite
all the evidence that has been gathered so far, these three young people (and Jeff
Chance) still believe that Sri Chinmoy lifted these weights. I have never been a member
of Sri Chinmoy’s organisation, or any similar organisation (and will never want to be).
In addition, I have never been a weightlifter, but I am a person who has been trained to
think critically and not take things at face value.
Bob Beale
Jahnu dasa
On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:25:04 +1300, Bob <xtr14...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
<well done report deleted>
It was also in the Guiness book of records. Then it is supossed to be
scientifically inspected.
So he is demonstrating some of the Vedic predictions of yogic power.
-Jahnu
http://www.users.wineasy.se/storm/
http://www.webcom.com/~ara/
Bob
Jahnu dasa wrote:
>
> It was also in the Guiness book of records. Then it is supossed to be
> scientifically inspected.
>
> So he is demonstrating some of the Vedic predictions of yogic power.
>
Jahnu makes a good point. If Tom Carey’s view as quoted by Sri Chinmoy supporters is
correct (that is, that Chinmoy exerted the strongest force ever exerted by a human being
in the history of the galaxy) then one would expect to find this epoch making event
recorded in the Guinness Book of Records.
However, I can find no reference to any of Chinmoy’s claimed weightlifting records in
the Guinness Book of Records (but if anyone can find such a reference please report it
to this newsgroup). This is somewhat strange really when one considers that Ashrita
Furman (who I think may be Chinmoy’s second in charge) is recorded in the Guinness Book
of Records for several of his juggling feats etc.
The Guinness Book of Records has, however, stated that, on 12 June 1957, 26 stone Paul
Anderson raised 6270 lbs in a back lift (weight raised off trestles) at Toccoa, Georgia,
USA. This lift was described as “The greatest weight ever raised by a human being”. For
this lift, in which the weight was barely lifted, I understand that Paul used a harness
which went around his back and fastened to the weight between his legs. Paul was also
the world heavy weight Olympic Champion in 1956.
However, with the type of lift performed by Chinmoy, that is, a one-arm overhead lift,
experienced weightlifters have suggested to me that not even Paul Anderson could have
lifted more than 1000 lbs in this manner, let alone 7063 lbs!
Incidentally, in my last posting I reported that Jeff Chance offered to provide a few
high quality photos of Chinmoy’s lift to people who are genuinely interested. However,
Jeff has advised me that since the original thread on this subject has died, he has now
withdrawn this offer and he has removed the scans and his address from internet. I have
apologised to Jeff for posting his address - he indicated to me that he was only
extending a courtesy to those who were genuinely interested in the lifts and had made
the effort to view the scans.
Bob Beale
Jahnu dasa
Bob <xtr14...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>Jahnu makes a good point. If Tom Carey’s view as quoted by Sri Chinmoy supporters is
>correct (that is, that Chinmoy exerted the strongest force ever exerted by a human being
>in the history of the galaxy) then one would expect to find this epoch making event
>recorded in the Guinness Book of Records.
>
>However, I can find no reference to any of Chinmoy’s claimed weightlifting records in
>the Guinness Book of Records (but if anyone can find such a reference please report it
>to this newsgroup). This is somewhat strange really when one considers that Ashrita
>Furman (who I think may be Chinmoy’s second in charge) is recorded in the Guinness Book
>of Records for several of his juggling feats etc.
I have to admit I didn't see it in the Guinness Book of Records
myself. I just heard it was there from someone else, that I usually
consider a reliable source.
And it should be possible to perform supernatural feats through yogic
powers according to some Vedic predictions.
I also heard that he lifted himself in one arm 1500 times in one hour.
Now, _that_ cannot be done by anyone unless he has mystic powers.
And besides that this doesn't mean Chinmoy knows beans about God.
Mystic powers are in the psychic realm and doesn't really require
knowledge of the spiritual realm to be effective.
<snip info on records>
cz...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Jahnu dasa (ja...@wineasy.se) wrote:
[Re: the weightlifting guru that Jahnu claimed was in Guinness.]
: I have to admit I didn't see it in the Guinness Book of Records
: myself. I just heard it was there from someone else, that I usually
: consider a reliable source.
: I also heard that he lifted himself in one arm 1500 times in one hour.
: Now, _that_ cannot be done by anyone unless he has mystic powers.
Did you hear that from that same or another of your "reliable sources?"
--
******************************
Czar
EAC Minister-without-portfolio
******************************
Judge a man by his questions
rather than his answers.
- Voltaire
******************************
David G. Kitaguchi
In article <3242fa89...@news.wineasy.se>, ja...@wineasy.se (Jahnu dasa) writes:
> Bob <xtr14...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>>Jahnu makes a good point. If Tom Carey’s view as quoted by Sri Chinmoy supporters is
>>correct (that is, that Chinmoy exerted the strongest force ever exerted by a human being
>>in the history of the galaxy) then one would expect to find this epoch making event
Sri Chinmoy is (I am assuming the 7063 is correct) in the Guinness Book of Records. The
last I saw him, was in late 70's, early 80's? The 7063 lb lift is based on multiple
lifting events and not on one single lift. His maximum deadlift was still an incredible
2000 lbs and change.
>>
>>However, I can find no reference to any of Chinmoy’s claimed weightlifting records in
>>the Guinness Book of Records (but if anyone can find such a reference please report it
>>to this newsgroup). This is somewhat strange really when one considers that Ashrita
>>Furman (who I think may be Chinmoy’s second in charge) is recorded in the Guinness Book
>>of Records for several of his juggling feats etc.
If there where a God, it would be second to the great Ashrita Furman! Mr. (The Great Beloved)
Furman holds the most recorded world records, most of which involve the holy pogo stick! He
also holds a record in milk bottle balancing (22+ miles I think) he set in Phucket, Thailand!
>I have to admit I didn't see it in the Guinness Book of Records
>myself. I just heard it was there from someone else, that I usually
>consider a reliable source.
I think the Guinness Book of World Records removed the super power lifter from its annals
for a while. He may have returned, I dunno... haven't seen a GB of R in 10 years.
>And it should be possible to perform supernatural feats through yogic
>powers according to some Vedic predictions.
>
>I also heard that he lifted himself in one arm 1500 times in one hour.
>Now, _that_ cannot be done by anyone unless he has mystic powers.
Who knows? as a knesiologist I would not think it possible. Then again there are people
who have pulled off 10,000 + situps in a single setting.
>And besides that this doesn't mean Chinmoy knows beans about God.
Hell, beans nor christians know beans about God(s).
>Mystic powers are in the psychic realm and doesn't really require
>knowledge of the spiritual realm to be effective.
I'll disagree here. Belief in ability is a powerful tool in enhancing performance.
You know, "The Little Engine that Could"... But seriously, a depressed athlete will
not perform as well as if he/she/it would if in a "inspired" mode...
Of course insipration comes in many forms.
William A. Choppa
Who's this Sri Chinmoy?
Someone post or send me email about this stuff!
BC
ja...@wineasy.se (Jahnu dasa) wrote:
> Bob <xtr14...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>Jahnu makes a good point. If Tom Carey’s view as quoted by Sri Chinmoy supporters is
>>correct (that is, that Chinmoy exerted the strongest force ever exerted by a human being
>>in the history of the galaxy) then one would expect to find this epoch making event
>>recorded in the Guinness Book of Records.
>>
>>However, I can find no reference to any of Chinmoy’s claimed weightlifting records in
>>the Guinness Book of Records (but if anyone can find such a reference please report it
>>to this newsgroup). This is somewhat strange really when one considers that Ashrita
>>Furman (who I think may be Chinmoy’s second in charge) is recorded in the Guinness Book
>>of Records for several of his juggling feats etc.
>I have to admit I didn't see it in the Guinness Book of Records
>myself. I just heard it was there from someone else, that I usually
>consider a reliable source.
>And it should be possible to perform supernatural feats through yogic
>powers according to some Vedic predictions.
>I also heard that he lifted himself in one arm 1500 times in one hour.
>Now, _that_ cannot be done by anyone unless he has mystic powers.
>And besides that this doesn't mean Chinmoy knows beans about God.
>Mystic powers are in the psychic realm and doesn't really require
>knowledge of the spiritual realm to be effective.
><snip info on records>
Bob
In a posting dated 23 September 1996, David G. Kitaguchi stated that Sri Chinmoy's
alleged 7063 lb lift is based on MULTIPLE lifting events and not on one single lift.
However, in a posting dated 22 July 1996 (made to alt.sport.weightlifting) a Sri Chinmoy
supporter made it clear that this lift was A SINGLE LIFT. The total weight was made up
of 68 one hundred pound dumbells plus the weight of a truss plus the weight of the 15
foot bar. On 24 July 1996, scans of photos of this alleged lift were put on internet and
viewed by experienced weightlifters. On 11 August 1996, a weightlifter with more than 25
years' experience stated that "I remain totally unconvinced that he or anyone else could
support 500 lbs over head with one hand, much less 7000+ lbs." This weightlifter
observed that he had "never come across such a blatant attempt at chicanery. To believe
that a human being can support over 7000 lbs with just one hand is utter nonsense, I
don't care if the guy has a direct link to heaven, this is total BS ....."
To now suggest that this lift was based on multiple lifting events is to ignore all the
evidence and photographs that were put forward in July and August on
alt.sport.weightlifting. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this
evidence should be put forward for public scrutiny whenever such claims are made.
David Kitaguchi has come forward with a new claim about Sri Chinmoy's weightlifting
feats, that is, that his "maximum deadlift was still an incredible 2000 lbs and change."
David needs to supply information about when this lift was made, who verified it, and
where it is recorded in weightlifting records before such a claim can be taken
seriously. When this information is forthcoming, it should be posted to
alt.sport.weightlifting for the weightlifters to comment on. Several weightlifters were
not impressed with the previous claims that Sri Chinmoy lifted with one arm weights of
3081 lbs and 7063 lbs!
David said that "I think the Guinness Book of World Records removed the super power
lifter from its annals for a while. He may have returned, I dunno... haven't seen a GB
of R in 10 years." Chinmoy supporters have previously suggested that some
of his weightlifting feats were recorded in the Guinness Book of Records. Although I
have searched through several of these books, I can find no references to
Chinmoy's lifts. But if someone can find such references, please give details. This
would be most helpful.
Bob Beale