Re: What is religions greatest accomplishment- Civilisation
fasgnadh
> On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>
> Religion's greatest accomplishment is
......
> Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
> world,
How true, Islamic Civilisation, Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
Why has atheism only produced totalitarian tyrannies.. in the USSR,
Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian
Genocide and the North Korean shithole?
Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
We all know the answer... atheism, in reality, SUCKS! B^]
---------
# From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,
# alt.religion.Islam,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,
# uk.politics.misc,aus.politics,alt.agnosticism
# Subject: US President seeks Enlightenment from Parliament
# of World Religions! 8^D
# Message-ID: <b44Um.61538$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:29:27 GMT
#
# "Obama team seeks enlightenment on Muslim relations"
# - The Age 10/12/2009
#
# "THE Obama Administration secretly sent staff to
# Melbourne this week to ask religious leaders about
# winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world."
#
# The State Department's head of religious freedom,
# Peter Kovach, White House religion expert Mara
# Vanderslice and a Gulf states policy planning
# head arrived at the Parliament of the World's
# Religions unexpectedly and asked to meet delegates,
# senior parliament staffer Tim Mannatt confirmed
# last night.
#
# Mr Mannatt said there was a private meeting on
# Monday afternoon with a small group of interfaith
# leaders the staffers invited and a larger meeting
# on Tuesday afternoon.
#
# This one involved about 100 leaders from most of
# the religions at the parliament."
#
#
# As I have frequently argued, the World's religions
# representing the spiritual aspirations of more than
# half of the worlds population, are critical in
# solving global problems.
#
# B^]
#
# No one bothers asking the atheists because history
# has shown that they have nothing to offer but a series
# of violent, murderous tyrannies, the Union of Savage
# Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great Leap Backward
# and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pot's Cambodian Genocide.
# collectively killing over 70,000,000 people.
#
# "The Age was told the doors were shut and guarded and
# the usual sign outside the room was absent.
#
# One of the Muslims, leading American imam Abdul Feisal
# Rauf, said the Administration staffers were looking for
# input and advice, and were extremely well received by
# delegates.
#
# ''It was a great indicator of hope, and an important
# part of the parliament,'' he said.
#
# ''Their position was 'we are here to learn from you'.
# They asked three questions: what should the Obama
# Administration do, what should it not do, and have you
# any immediate or long-term suggestions. They just
# listened and took notes.''
#
# Imam Rauf said he told the trio that religion was an
# extremely important part of the solution. Because the
# US formally separated church and state, it tended not
# to look at religion in its foreign policy."
#
# No nation will be sending representatives to the atheist
# convention in 2010 seeking it's input on the great issues
# of our time because atheist regimes were responsible for the
# greatest death toll in the twentieth century, terrorising,
# torturing and killing over 70,000,000 people before completely
# collapsing in the depths of misery, failure and despair.
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Jim Austin
> Jimbo wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>
> > Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>
> ......
>
> > Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>
> > world,
The accomplishments of Western Civilization stem from values gained
from the Age of Enlightenment, specifically the use of reason. That
means Western governments, which may pay lip service to religion,
govern as if atheism were true. In conducting criminal trials, such
governments do not resort to trial by combat, trial by lot, trial by
ordeal to determine the will of the Almighty. Rather, they adopt
procedures to sift through evidence to determine the outcome through
reason and logic.
> How true, Islamic Civilisation,...
Exemplified by the likes of Libya, Syria, Iran.
> ...Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
Much of which was counteracted by Western colonial administration that
allowed such religions to be practiced, but outlawed some of the more
extreme practices like human sacrifices, etc.
> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
It has. The United States of America for one. While it may have
religious window dressing, it governs as if atheism were true, without
any procedures or any official priests, oracles or ayatollahs to
divine the will of the Almighty in political affairs. It governs as if
the Almighty does not exist.
> Why has atheism only produced totalitarian tyrannies.. in the USSR,
> Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian
> Genocide and the North Korean shithole?
It didn't. While such tyrannies gave lip service to atheism, their
existence depended on the Christian virtues of humility, meekness,
servility, submissiveness, on the part of the population and the
Christian politics of the divine right of kings and dictators.
> Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
> democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
> than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
As oppose to the governments mandated by Christianity that formed
during the Dark Ages.
> We all know the answer... atheism, in reality, SUCKS! B^]
Those who hate atheism hate the process that brought it about. It's a
hatred of reason per se.
Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
material world results in science and technology, when applied to
human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
SPierce
"Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
(snipped)
> Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
> results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
> material world results in science and technology, when applied to
> human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
> to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>
Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
vacuum.
This 'application of reason' only came about when the monks interpreted
manuscripts brought back from the Arabs, and discovered Aristotelian
thought. The Jesuits were the first appliers of Aristotelian Logic to the
Christian religion, to question the unbelievers and to construct *
reasonable * argument, hence the Inquisition.
Atheism ' as an effect' is therefore only part of the story. Yes, Western
Scientific thought grew from atheism. Roger Bacon and Peter Grossetest
almost certainly the first Western European minds to be * analytic* in the
sense that we understand the word.
But atheism did not build the Greek temples. Nor the Gothic cathedrals, the
first one in Saint Denis in Paris. The stunning beauty of that
architecture was Christian religion inspired. So was the music of Hayden,
Mozart and Beethoven and the painted ceiling in the Sistine Chapel.
SPierce
"Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
(snipped)
> results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
> material world results in science and technology, when applied to
> human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
> to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>
Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
Eris
> Jimbo wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>
> > Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>
> ......
>
> > Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>
> > world,
>
> How true, Islamic Civilisation, Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
>
> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
>
> Why has atheism only produced totalitarian tyrannies.. in the USSR,
In the USSR the communist replaced a democratic society? You f^ck#ng
idiot!
The USSR had an indifferent Czar and a very oppressive Religion. I
believe Stalin was brutally sexually abused in the Seminary he was
conscripted at.
In Mao's China he rescued his people from whom?
> Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution,
Pol Pots Cambodian
> Genocide and the
North Korean shithole?
>
> Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
> democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
> than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
>
> We all know the answer... atheism, in reality, SUCKS! B^]
>
> ---------
>
> # From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,
> # alt.religion.Islam,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,
> # uk.politics.misc,aus.politics,alt.agnosticism
> # Subject: US President seeks Enlightenment from Parliament
> # of World Religions! 8^D
> # Message-ID: <b44Um.61538$ze1.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
Virgil
> Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
> democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
> than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
>
> We all know the answer... � �atheism, in reality, SUCKS! � B^]
And we all know that until Fasgnadh hasd publicly state which god(s) he
believes in, he is a sucking atheist.
fasgnadh
> On Dec 10, 3:54 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>>> On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>>> Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>> ......
>>
>> > Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>>
>>> world,
>> How true, Islamic Civilisation, Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
>>
>> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
>> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
>>
>> Why has atheism only produced totalitarian tyrannies.. in the USSR,
>> Pol Pots Cambodian Genocide and the
>> North Korean shithole?
> In the USSR the communist replaced a democratic society
Don't be a fucking moron! LEARN TO READ, you ignorant atheist cretin!
> I believe
Who gives a fuck about the 'beliefs' of an pervert who defends the
horrors of the atheist states?
> Stalin was brutally sexually abused
That doesn't excuse his atheist tyranny, you filthy apologist
for totalitarian atheist dictators and murderous thugs!
Besides it serves him right for hanging out with atheist deviants
like these sick sexual psychopaths:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
# From: Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
# Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:24:01 -0500
# Message-ID: <o07dl41sa4t4jhof3...@4ax.com>
#
# "go fuck yourself with your crucifix in a drill chuck'.
> In Mao's China he rescued his people from whom?
Madame Mao and the atheist Gang of Four..
that was just atheist killer Mao shifting blame
to some handy atheist scapegoats to save his own
neck.. no one ever said atheists were honourable! B^p
>> Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
>> democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
>> than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
>>
>> We all know the answer... atheism, in reality, SUCKS! B^]
Undisputed truth!
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>>> On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>>>
>>> Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>> ......
>>
>>> Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>>> world
>>
>>
>>
>> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
>> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
>>
Bimbo has no answer! B^D
He snips all the embarrassing questions which show atheism to be
a total failure.
> Fagboy lies by snippage
Thanks for the warning, fagboy.
I will replace what you lied about by snippage;
<unsnip>
> adds a lot of unrelated groups.
We all know that atheists are gutless cowards who hide like cockroaches
and fear the light... but your idiocy deserves to be exposed amongst
the religious you slander and among the political groups which
triumphed over the 20th century atheist tyrannies, and are amused
when you can't answer the questions and resort to whining like a
little atheist bitch! B^]
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > In the USSR the communist replaced a democratic society
>
> Don't be a fucking moron! LEARN TO READ, you ignorant atheist cretin!
Your right, communism replaced a rigid and essentially totalitarian
society dominated by the church by another antagonistic to the church.
If the original had been less dominated by the church, the revolutionary
government would most likely have been a good deal less fervently
anti-church.
Revolutions tend to concentrate their energies on real enemies.
bob young
SPierce wrote:
> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> (snipped)
> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
> >
>
> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
> vacuum.
That's true, if man did not create imaginary gods
then there would be nothing for atheism to question
IOW Atheism would not exist,
since atheism is simply a repudiation of the existence of gods
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has
been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>SPierce wrote:
>
>> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> (snipped)
>> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
>> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
>> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
>> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
>> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
>> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
>> vacuum.
>
>That's true, if man did not create imaginary gods
>then there would be nothing for atheism to question
>
>IOW Atheism would not exist,
>since atheism is simply a repudiation of the existence of gods
If theistic beliefs did not exist the only difference to atheists
would be that there were no theists.
But there would be an enormous void in the lives of theists.
Alang
There would be no such word as atheist either
>
bob young
Alang wrote:
right on
>
>
> >
bob young
"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:
Only if they had been inculcated by others into some form of beleif.
There is no void in my life.
bob young
fasgnadh wrote:
Jimbo can't dispute the facts so he whines like a little atheist bitch:
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>>> On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>>>
>>> Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>> ......
>>
>>> Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>>> world
>>
>>
>> How true, Islamic Civilisation, Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
>>
>> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
>> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
>>Bimbo has no answer! B^D
Well let us try an intelligence indicator
for the likes of fartnose . . . . . .
.
The universe revolves around the earth.
Stars are pinpricks in the heavens.
The world is flat (and on pillars)
Bats are a kind of bird.
Rabbits chew their cud.
There is enough water to flood the entire planet
Women were created from a man's rib
Rainbows are a promise from God
[Acknowledgments to 'James, Seattle']
bob young
SPierce wrote:
> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> (snipped)
> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
> >
>
> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
> vacuum.
Of curse not - it evolved from some human being questioning all of the
supertitious clap trap that was going on around him and decided to do something
about it.
Without religions there would BE no atheism
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>
>
>SPierce wrote:
>
>> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> (snipped)
>> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
>> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
>> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
>> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
>> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
>> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
>> vacuum.
>
>Of curse not - it evolved from some human being questioning all of the
>supertitious clap trap that was going on around him and decided to do something
>about it.
>
>Without religions there would BE no atheism
And the only difference it would make to atheists, is that they could
just get on with their lives without having to fend off theists any
more.
While theists would have to find something else gto fill the
theism-sized hole in their lives.
SPierce
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:vt3ki59ki9shc10qu...@4ax.com...
# That 'theism-sized hole ' * IS * Western Civilisation. All of it.
The theism and the atheism.
The magnificent architecture, the music, the literature, the Latin that
connected the thoughts of European minds, the Logic that the Inquisition
used to pull humans apart, the wars inspired by moral indignation or just
bloody-mindedness, the Science that came from the subsequent INTROSPECTION.
It made us what we are.
You can't shut off part of it because people were barbaric. People are
being barbaric today who have no faith in anything except themselves. In
fact, the part of the twentieth century that was most barbaric has been
since Christian religion was rejected by atheists. The future barbarity
will also be caused by atheists who tolerate Muslims of all people and put
Christians at risk of their lives.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
No.
Some of what you say was religious. It was also secular.
Fontainebleu and VErsailles weren't religious. Handel wrote as many
oratorios based on Shekespeare and historical subjects as he did on
religious ones.
Without religion we would nothave had a thousand years of dark ages to
fight our way out of.
And whether you like itor not, if there weren't any theists we would
just get on with our own lives.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>
I'mnot.
Theism is just one part of Western history.
>being barbaric today who have no faith in anything except themselves. In
>fact, the part of the twentieth century that was most barbaric has been
>since Christian religion was rejected by atheists.
Atheists aren't rejecting anything outside the deluded imagination of
Christians who can't understand that the world doesn't revolve around
their religion.
> The future barbarity
>will also be caused by atheists who tolerate Muslims of all people and put
>Christians at risk of their lives.
Liar.
So tell me what theists would do to fill their time if they didn't go
to church, read the Bible and all the other things theists do.
Which you and I don't do because we're already doing more important
things.
Alang
wrote:
>
>
>SPierce wrote:
>
>> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> (snipped)
>> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
>> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
>> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
>> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
>> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
>> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a mental
>> vacuum.
>
>That's true, if man did not create imaginary gods
>then there would be nothing for atheism to question
>
>IOW Atheism would not exist,
>since atheism is simply a repudiation of the existence of gods
>
>
>"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
>human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
>cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
>religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has
>been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
>simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
>[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
>
Or "atheist is a word coined by the deluded to describe those who do
not share their delusions"
>
>>
Hunter
>> just get on with their lives without having to fend off theists any
>> more.
>>
>> While theists would have to find something else gto fill the
>> theism-sized hole in their lives.
>
> # That 'theism-sized hole ' * IS * Western Civilisation. All of it.
> The theism and the atheism.
> The magnificent architecture, the music, the literature, the Latin that
> connected the thoughts of European minds, the Logic that the Inquisition
> used to pull humans apart, the wars inspired by moral indignation or just
> bloody-mindedness, the Science that came from the subsequent INTROSPECTION.
> It made us what we are.
>
> You can't shut off part of it because people were barbaric. People are
> being barbaric today who have no faith in anything except themselves. In
> fact, the part of the twentieth century that was most barbaric has been
> since Christian religion was rejected by atheists. The future barbarity
> will also be caused by atheists who tolerate Muslims of all people and put
> Christians at risk of their lives.
Actually the less theistic a civilisation is in the modern day the less
hate and problems that seem to exist within it.
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
Here you will find all sorts of interesting information such as "In
general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate
with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD
infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous
democracies (Figures 1-9)."
It seems that in societies where we are truly free to believe or
dis-believe as we see fit (such as Australia) the rate of belief is
slowly dropping, and it appears from the study linked above the more
these beliefs are dropped the happier and healthier a society becomes.
To compare two edges of the spectrum to each other lets look at Japan
and the US. The US is ridden with crime, poverty and hatred. It is one
of the most religious of those countries where people are allowed to
choose their beliefs. Japan on the other hand is one of the least
religious of these countries and has the least of these problems.
FACE
Lee <ca...@optonline.net>, wrote
>Without religion we would nothave had a thousand years of dark ages to
>fight our way out of.
I hope you are up to explaining just how religion caused or resulted into
some elongation of the dark ages. That seems to be a recent theme on
usenet. Please explain it.
FACE
bobsyo...@yahoo.com
"bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:4B2A0ADB...@netvigator.com...
>
>
> SPierce wrote:
>
>> "Jim Austin" <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:044bee39-b461-4e94...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> (snipped)
>> > Atheism is not a cause per se of anything. Atheism is an effect. It
>> > results from the application of reason, which when applied to the
>> > material world results in science and technology, when applied to
>> > human affairs results in democracy and human rights, and when applied
>> > to religion leads to the rejection of religion.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, that is true. However, atheism 'as an effect' was actually the
>> result of religious belief in the first place. I didn't evolve in a
>> mental
>> vacuum.
>
> Of curse not - it evolved from some human being questioning all of the
> supertitious clap trap that was going on around him and decided to do
> something
> about it.
>
> Without religions there would BE no atheism
The lack of belief in any god(s) was around one hell of a long time before
mankind found a need to invent god(s).
Religion is not the opposite of atheism, it is merely a meaningless delusion
created by those who have some need to believe in a (any) god.
>
>>
>> This 'application of reason' only came about when the monks interpreted
>> manuscripts brought back from the Arabs, and discovered Aristotelian
>> thought. The Jesuits were the first appliers of Aristotelian Logic to
>> the
>> Christian religion, to question the unbelievers and to construct *
>> reasonable * argument, hence the Inquisition.
The "application of reason" has nothing to do with religion.
If it did - the ONLY acceptable "reason" is that there is no reason to claim
a god, becuse there is no valid evidence FOR a god.
>>
>> Atheism ' as an effect' is therefore only part of the story. Yes,
>> Western
>> Scientific thought grew from atheism. Roger Bacon and Peter Grossetest
>> almost certainly the first Western European minds to be * analytic* in
>> the
>> sense that we understand the word.
Western scientific thought grew from a need to understand the details of the
world around us.
Atheism had absolutely NOTHING to do with it; that is merely a claim of
those defending their imaginary deities.
>>
>> But atheism did not build the Greek temples. Nor the Gothic cathedrals,
>> the
>> first one in Saint Denis in Paris. The stunning beauty of that
>> architecture was Christian religion inspired. So was the music of
>> Hayden,
>> Mozart and Beethoven and the painted ceiling in the Sistine Chapel.
Neither did religion.
People built those things - people who wanted to express AND impress others
with their religion.
Religion is full of emotions, and it is that emotional drive that caused,
and drove, many societies.
In fact, even today, the vast majority of claimed believers are not
practicing a religion - they are merely following, pushing, and defending
their own egocentric, emotional needs.
Oh ...... and, by the way, atheism never caused ANY wars or genocide.
bobsyo...@yahoo.com
It seems like the major course of actions for religious people and
organizations (has nothing to do with gods, gods on earth, or worshipping)
is to make the rest of the world their "bitch"!
When I see a smiling televangelist cretin, I can't decide if he's taking up
the ass, or shoving it into someone else's ass.
Speaking in tongues, therefore, is nothing more than a "psychotic climax".
Governor Swill
>Without religions there would BE no atheism
Without religion there would be nothing but atheism.
Swill
--
In the exam room . . .
Doctor: "Public Opt . . ."
Elephant: "SOCIALISM!"
Doctor: "Reflexes good."
Governor Swill
># That 'theism-sized hole ' * IS * Western Civilisation. All of it.
>The theism and the atheism.
> The magnificent architecture, the music, the literature, the Latin that
>connected the thoughts of European minds,
Based on Roman Catholicism. The majority of the great buildings were
cathedrals built centuries ago. Classical music is a direct out
growth from church music of the middle ages. When Bach wrote "Jesu,
Joy of Heart's Desiring", he wasn't writing about his gardener, Jesus.
> the Logic that the Inquisition
>used to pull humans apart, the wars inspired by moral indignation
Still listing religious influences, though the Inquisition took a
certain bloody mindedness that was as far as one can get from
Christianity.
> or just bloody-mindedness, the Science that came from the
> subsequent INTROSPECTION. It made us what we are.
Christian Europe. Much less church going there these days.
>You can't shut off part of it because people were barbaric. People are
>being barbaric today who have no faith in anything except themselves. In
>fact, the part of the twentieth century that was most barbaric has been
>since Christian religion was rejected by atheists.
Yet even WWII contained fruits of Europe's struggle between
Catholicism and Protestantism.
Let us now consider that there has not been a war between any two
major powers since.
That is Pax Americana and compared to Europe, the America in
'Americana' is far more devout, Protestant and conservative. Note the
Latin that remains in modern use.
> The future barbarity will also be caused by atheists who tolerate
> Muslims of all people and put Christians at risk of their lives.
Most Muslims are entirely tolerable. Toleration is a Christian
principle.
Governor Swill
>Actually the less theistic a civilisation is in the modern day the less
>hate and problems that seem to exist within it.
>http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
The problem isn't religion, it's the conflicts between so many.
If we were all one religion, it would probably be a pretty peaceful
planet. A common language would do the same thing.
Governor Swill
>Fontainebleu and VErsailles weren't religious. Handel wrote as many
>oratorios based on Shekespeare and historical subjects as he did on
>religious ones.
How about Notre Dame or the Sistine Chapel? The Pantheon and
Westminster Abbey? Europe is noted for it's fabulous church
buildings. Every city, town and village had one and the large ones
had many. The UK is littered with rural abbeys and beautiful
churches. Many were converted to private residences in the sixteenth
century and that trend continues today. But many others were
completely despoiled with the lead from stained glass windows being a
favorite target.
Religion in Europe suffered a serious setback in the 1500s and the
theological conflicts resulted in centuries of religious war.
Increasing nationalism sparked centuries of political war. Between
1500 and WWII there were few times of peace.
Europeans do one thing better than anybody else: Make war.
Hope for the Heartless
Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
That'd be easy. There's plenty to do.
Hope for the Heartless
Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >Fontainebleu and VErsailles weren't religious. Handel wrote as many
> >oratorios based on Shekespeare and historical subjects as he did on
> >religious ones.
>
> How about Notre Dame or the Sistine Chapel? The Pantheon and
> Westminster Abbey?
The architecture is magnificent. The art is magnificent. But that
doesn't mean that the god it was devoted to is real. It just means
that the Church was the richest, most powerful institution of its
day and spent a lot of its money on beautiful things.
> Religion in Europe suffered a serious setback in the 1500s and the
> theological conflicts resulted in centuries of religious war.
>
> Increasing nationalism sparked centuries of political war. Between
> 1500 and WWII there were few times of peace.
>
> Europeans do one thing better than anybody else: Make war.
>
Not any more. Now Americans are the world's warmakers.
Governor Swill
Aren't we Europeans? Aside from Africans and Asians and the few
remaining natives, the entire western hemisphere is European stock.
And what is America but the heir of Pax Brittannia?
Hope for the Heartless
Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hope for the Heartless <h.hea...@bitbucket.gov> wrote:
> > Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >Fontainebleu and VErsailles weren't religious. Handel wrote as many
> >> >oratorios based on Shekespeare and historical subjects as he did on
> >> >religious ones.
> >> How about Notre Dame or the Sistine Chapel? The Pantheon and
> >> Westminster Abbey?
>
> >The architecture is magnificent. The art is magnificent. But that
> >doesn't mean that the god it was devoted to is real. It just means
> >that the Church was the richest, most powerful institution of its
> >day and spent a lot of its money on beautiful things.
> >
> >> Religion in Europe suffered a serious setback in the 1500s and the
> >> theological conflicts resulted in centuries of religious war.
> >> Increasing nationalism sparked centuries of political war. Between
> >> 1500 and WWII there were few times of peace.
> >> Europeans do one thing better than anybody else: Make war.
> >>
> >Not any more. Now Americans are the world's warmakers.
>
> Aren't we Europeans? Aside from Africans and Asians and the few
> remaining natives, the entire western hemisphere is European stock.
Most of the people of the Americas have mixed European & Native American
stock.
I'm thinking regionally. You're thinking racio-culturally.
But here's the thing. In America we launched whole conceptually
religion-neutral society, and we're now more warlike than the
Europeans, who adopted that idea from us.
> And what is America but the heir of Pax Brittannia?
Largely.
Vernon F. Strange
> Jimbo wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 12:28 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>
> > Religion's greatest accomplishment is
>
> ......
>
> > Western Civilization, and much of the rest of the
>
>
> How true, Islamic Civilisation, Hindu and Buddhist civilisations...
>
> Why has atheism never produced a great and enduring civilisation
> like the great world religions have inspired and sustained??
>
> Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian
> Genocide and the North Korean shithole?
>
> Why are atheists such hypocrites that they choose to live in the modern,
> democratic, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nations of the world, rather
> than an atheist state like Nth Korea?
>
> We all know the answer... atheism, in reality, SUCKS! B^]
As someone who has, how should I say this, been on both sides of
defence, I like the light, the brilliant illuminance of being an
atheist (and just what is atheism?), as opposed to the dark
superstitious ignorance of theism, and in my case, it was xianity.
If, perchance, and just so you know, I were the sole ruling power of a
nation, I, personally, would use religion wisely. :-)
Vern
Wiseguy #13
>
> ---------
>
> # From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,
> # alt.religion.Islam,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,
> # uk.politics.misc,aus.politics,alt.agnosticism
> # Subject: US President seeks Enlightenment from Parliament
> # of World Religions! 8^D
> # Message-ID: <b44Um.61538$ze1.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
Governor Swill
> Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hope for the Heartless <h.hea...@bitbucket.gov> wrote:
>> > Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Europeans do one thing better than anybody else: Make war.
>> >Not any more. Now Americans are the world's warmakers.
>> Aren't we Europeans? Aside from Africans and Asians and the few
>> remaining natives, the entire western hemisphere is European stock.
>
>Most of the people of the Americas have mixed European & Native American
>stock.
Yes and living within the framework of Christian European values and
beliefs. The natives were converted, or killed. The US practically
wiped out the natives and intermarrying was not common.
>I'm thinking regionally. You're thinking racio-culturally.
I'm thinking entirely culturally. Colors have their effect on those
for whom color is important. Same with languages. But the underlying
culture of the vast majority of the people in the western hemisphere
is European based. The US is the most powerful country in the
hemisphere and in the world just as the Brits were right up until
WWII.
>But here's the thing. In America we launched whole conceptually
>religion-neutral society,
Um, not quite. We launched a religiously neutral system of
government. A government is not a society.
>and we're now more warlike than the
>Europeans, who adopted that idea from us.
The Europeans have stopped being warlike because they are eyewitness
to having tried to burn their own continent to the ground twice in two
generations. With the US holding off Russia and occupying or having
bases in significant chunks of the continent, Europe's defense was
pretty much assured. They were vulnerable at the front, but not far
behind that front was the post war might of the United States.
Obviously Europe doesn't want to war anymore.
fasgnadh
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:54:36 -0800 (PST), "Syd M."
> <pdwri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 10, 3:33 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:28:41 -0800 (PST), Eris <vith...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>>> inspired by it, for a start.
>> Ok, that's something.
>
> Well, no, not really
>
> Religious buildings are mostly based on variations of the Roman arch
> and Basilica so do not count as a contribution.
Why not? Rome was religious, you dimwitted atheist ignoramus! B^D
> The Roman invented concrete, the Pantheon was built from it
PanTHEON should have given you a clue you cretin!
Here's a child's guide to Jupiter, Venus, Mars, et al
http://www.roman-empire.net/children/gods.html
Everything from the Taj Mahal and Sufi poets to the Big Bang Theory
has been the work of theists, the worlds great civilisations have been
based on the spiritual teachings of the worlds great religions,
and atheism has never produced a single viable state, let alone a great
and enduring civilisation... EVERY atheist state has been a
totalitarian tyranny! pffffft!
Here are just a few of religions contributions to SCIENCE;
No atheist list can match it!
---------
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
Ren� Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall� be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God � the design argument of Paley � updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lema�tre proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizs�cker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizs�cker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
>
> --
> Les Hellawell
> Greetings from: YORKSHIRE
> The White Rose County
>
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> On Dec 10, 9:22 pm, Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:28:41 -0800 (PST), Eris <vith...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
Ask the 300,000,000 former Chinese Atheists:
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA
EVEN THE FORMER ATHEIST REGIME IN CHINA RECOGNISES THE SOCIAL
IMPORTANCE OF RELIGION!!!! B^D
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
>> The hats. Fantastic hats.
>>
Far better than the atheist choice of headwear:
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
>> Warlord Steve
>> BAAWA
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/2009/09/meet-fluffy-bawaa-factions-new-warlord.html
> LOL! They're a little out of style now,
Yeah, Boring Atheist Arseholes Wanking Away are so yesterday! B^D
> but they may make a comeback!
Meeting a shortage in the demand for Butt-plugs?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAA
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Jimbo wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 9:22 pm, Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:28:41 -0800 (PST), Eris <vith...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Seriously how has society benefited from religion?
>
> Ask the 300,000,000 former Chinese Atheists:
>
> "With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
> Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
> longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
> amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
> of religion."
>
> http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
>
>
> "At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
> Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
> the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
>
>
But Buddhism is a NON-THEIST religion, so avoids the most serious flaws
of Christianity and Islam.
And China may thrive as long as almost all of its religious growth is in
non-theist religions.
Note that we non-theists are not aanti-religion, merely anti-theism.
Our aim is Good without God, which allows for, and even encourages, such
non-theist religions as Buddhism.
In article
<da5b25cb-e210-40f1...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com@,
Immortalist <reanima...@yahoo.com@ wrote:
@ ...an alternative to traditional religion by the Humanist chaplain at
@ Harvard University
@
@ With the current state of the economy, the ongoing wars that rage
@ across the globe, and the unsettling changes to the earth's climate,
@ questions about the role of God and religion in world affairs have
@ never been more relevant or felt more powerfully. Many of us are
@ searching for a place where we can find not only facts and scientific
@ reason but also hope and the moral courage needed to overcome such
@ challenges. For some, answers to the most challenging questions are
@ found in the divine. For others, including the New Atheists, religion
@ has no place in the world and is, in fact, an "enemy."
@
@ But in Good Without God, Greg Epstein presents another, more balanced
@ and inclusive response: Humanism. With a focus on the positive, he
@ highlights humanity's potential for goodness and the ways in which
@ Humanists lead lives of purpose and compassion. Humanism can offer the
@ sense of community we want and often need in good times and bad, as we
@ celebrate marriages and the birth of our children, and as we care for
@ those who are elderly or sick. In short, Humanism teaches us that we
@ can lead good and moral lives without supernaturalism, without higher
@ powers . . . without God.
@
@ In this constructive response not only to his fellow atheists Richard
@ Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris but also to contemporary
@ religious leaders such as Rick Warren and Jim Wallis, Epstein makes a
@ bold claim for what nonbelievers do share and believe. At a time when
@ the debate about morality rages more fiercely than ever�and when
@ millions are searching for something they can put their faith in�
@ Humanism offers a comfort and hope that affirms our ability to live
@ ethical lives of personal fulfillment, aspiring together for the
@ greater good of all.
@
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Without-God-Billion-Nonreligious/dp/0061670111
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
# Faghdagh - formerly 'Che' - was ostensibly a marxist for most of
# his netlife. He rebirthed himself only recently, presumably because
# defending basket cases like Zimbabwe, Cuba and North Korea became
# simply too challenging even for a veteran net kook.
So why is he now trying to sell what, as a Marxist, he attacked?
Theism, like Marxism, is a losing cause, at least among the more
civilized nations.Extracted from
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
Below is a list of the top fifty countries containing the largest
measured percentage of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or
non-believer in God. These figures do not necessarily represent the
number of people who are identify themselves as "atheists." For example,
in Estonia in 2004, 49% of people surveyed said they did not believe in
God. At the same time, only 11% of people in the country identified
themselves as atheists.
Nation Total % non Number of non-theists
Population theist Min Max
Sweden 8,986,000 46 - 85% 4,133,560 - 7,638,100
Vietnam 82,690,000 81% 66,978,900
Denmark 5,413,000 43 - 80% 2,327,590 - 4,330,400
Norway 4,575,000 31 - 72% 1,418,250 - 3,294,000
Japan 127,333,000 64 - 65% 81,493,120 - 82,766,450
Czech Republic 10,246,100 54 - 61% 5,328,940 - 6,250,121
Finland 5,215,000 28 - 60% 1,460,200 - 3,129,000
France 60,424,000 43 - 54% 25,982,320 - 32,628,960
South Korea 48,598,000 30 - 52% 14,579,400 - 25,270,960
Estonia 1,342,000 49% 657,580
Germany 82,425,000 41 - 49% 33,794,250 - 40,388,250
Russia 143,782,000 24 - 48% 34,507,680 - 69,015,360
Hungary 10,032,000 32 - 46% 3,210,240 - 4,614,720
Netherlands 16,318,000 39 - 44% 6,364,020 - 7,179,920
Britain 60,271,000 31 - 44% 18,684,010 - 26,519,240
Belgium 10,348,000 42 - 43% 4,346,160 - 4,449,640
Bulgaria 7,518,000 34 - 40% 2,556,120 - 3,007,200
Slovenia 2,011,000 35 - 38% 703,850 - 764,180
Israel 6,199,000 15 - 37% 929,850 - 2,293,630
Canada 32,508,000 19 - 30% 6,176,520 - 9,752,400
Latvia 2,306,000 20 - 29% 461,200 - 668,740
Slovakia 5,424,000 10 - 28% 542,400 - 1,518,720
Switzerland 7,451,000 17 - 27% 1,266,670 - 2,011,770
Austria 8,175,000 18 - 26% 1,471,500 - 2,125,500
Australia 19,913,000 24 - 25% 4,779,120 - 4,978,250
Taiwan 22,750,000 24% 5,460,000
Spain 40,281,000 15 - 24% 6,042,150 - 9,667,440
Iceland 294,000 16 - 23% 47,040 - 67,620
New Zealand 3,994,000 20 - 22% 798,800 - 878,680
Ukraine 47,732,000 20% 9,546,400
Belarus 10,311,000 17% 1,752,870
Greece 10,648,000 16% 1,703,680
North Korea 22,698,000 15% *3,404,700
Italy 58,057,000 6 - 15% 3,483,420 - 8,708,550
Armenia 2,991,000 14% 418,740
China 1,298,848,000 8 - 14% *103,907,840 - 181,838,720
Lithuania 3,608,000 13% 469,040
Singapore 4,354,000 13% 566,020
Uruguay 3,399,000 12% 407,880
Kazakhstan 15,144,000 11 - 12% 1,665,840 - 1,817,280
Mongolia 2,751,000 9% 247,590
Portugal 10,524,000 4 - 9% 420,960 - 947,160
USA 293,028,000 3 - 9% 8,790,840 - 26,822,520
Albania 3,545,000 8% 283,600
Argentina 39,145,000 4 - 8% 1,565,800 - 3,131,600
Kyrgyzstan 5,081,000 7% 355,670
Dominican Republic 8,834,000 7% 618,380
Cuba 11,309,000 7% *791,630
Croatia 4,497,000 7% 314,790
duke
>But Buddhism is a NON-THEIST religion, so avoids the most serious flaws
>of Christianity and Islam.
There's none in Christianity. Listen to God and win, or listen to satan and
enjoy your bbq - that's YOUR bbq.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Virgil
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:50:37 -0700, Virgil <Vir...@home.esc> wrote:
>
> >But Buddhism is a NON-THEIST religion, so avoids the most serious flaws
> >of Christianity and Islam.
>
> There's none in Christianity.
Any organization like your RCC that indulged itself in the Inquisition
and has allowed its priests to to indulge in pederasty for so long has
seriousl flaws.
And there are a lot of sects of your christianity which declare other
such sects to be in error, and they should know.
Javi
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:50:37 -0700, Virgil <Vir...@home.esc> wrote:
>
>>But Buddhism is a NON-THEIST religion, so avoids the most serious flaws
>>of Christianity and Islam.
>
> There's none in Christianity. Listen to God and win, or listen to satan
> and enjoy your bbq - that's YOUR bbq.
Here you have a christian flaw. Kings 7:23.
"7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other:
it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty
cubits did compass it round about."
If you can divide (I suppose you learned), that makes pi EXACTLY 3.
Somebody's god is a fool.