TAR

[Alex Banwell]

Morning all

Apologies for fleeing last night, I'd had a long day and was due in work for 7 this morning for a meeting.

I feel like the late finish meant we didn't have too much time to actually discuss the film as much as normal. I enjoyed the meta discussion around the essence of art and culture, particularly Connor's focus on what the elites deem as genius and 'true art' etc and another time I'd have enjoyed digging into that with him!

I do think I was perhaps harsh on the film by focusing on the final fifteen minutes and how that annoyed me. But I liked it overall and parts of it I loved.

The first three scenes; The Interview, the lunch with her business partner, and the lecture to the students were phenomenal. Really made you believe she was this powerful charismatic genius and meant you could totally buy everyone being utterly charmed by her and turning a blind eye to her bad behaviour. 

I suppose I have an issue with this type of 'terrible person but a genius' film which we've seen a lot of. I guess there's nothing particularly cinematic about a person who is a genius in an art form but who just lives a happy, good life. But I think these films often reinforce some things I have a hard time with. I think it makes it a lot easier for the public to excuse the poor behaviour of artists in that we've all been trained to think of them as protagonists in stories about greatness. It also helps drive a viewpoint that you can only be a truly great artist if you treat everyone around you terribly, or if you behave in self-destructive ways.

I suppose at least this film featured a woman as the 'troubled great artist' so was different to many similar themed films, but wasn't it interesting that her bad behaviour and behaviour in general was very stereotypically masculine. The way she abused her power was clearly something she'd seen and learned even from the male peers in her profession (her dinners with her mentor were very revealing in that way) When she dealt with the bullies at her daughters school she called herself her child father. And in the interview at the start she dismissed the feminisation of maestro as a way to refer to her. It was clear to me that in order for her to rise to the top of her profession she (at least felt she) had to behave and model herself on the male greats around her.

Anyway, a film with much to ponder. Julie, please pass on my thanks to Connor for his usual interesting presentation and for the discussion he led after.

As an aside, Kore-eda's film The Truth from 2019 is on iplayer at the moment for anyone that hasn't seen it. I've really enjoyed what I've seen so far of his TV show on Netflix. A lot frothier and without the hard edge some of his films have but very sweet and enjoyable. 

Alex

[Steveandkerry Riddell]

Good morning

I similarly wanted to apologise for leaving early. I live in Moniaive so didn't get home until past 11 blah blah blah etc.

Some thoughts 

1. I think we should definately start earlier for any film over 2 hours especially if you include an intro ( and I definately appreciate Connors intros as they are obviously special, almost feel like a free gift!)

2. Maybe the discussions could be very slightly more structured ie when we start, just going around the room and giving everyone (who wants to) the opportunity to say very briefly intial impressions before opening it out more widely.   

 I really liked it. As someone who has been involved in , albeit in a tiny way, a creative life I thought it painted a very vivid picture of the obsession, euphoria and misery of that world. Even though I don't have a great interest in that form of music I still felt the passion. Reminded me of watching  The West Wing- half the time I don't really know whats going on, not being an expert on us politics but it doesn't really matter

I thought it asked lots of questions about "brilliant people" 

Would you really like to be one?

How much will we forgive them in return for their stellar gifts to our drab lives? 

Not only in the creative world, I think of staggeringly rude and arrogant consultants in the NHS also.

I thought it was quite sad as you saw her certainties slowly unravel in the face of this brilliant young Russian Cellist who had no interest in records, cucumber salad, what conductor did what, or New york (Spending much of her time on the phone)   

Cinematography was great throughout particularly the dream sequences .

I still think it felt like the end was rather truncated almost like they thought "oh god its already 2 and a1/4 hours long we'd better wrap it up quick. Maybe some editing of the rehearsals (we got that she was driven and special) , not sure the inclusion of the daughter added much...

Anyway main reason to write was to thank Conner again for a thought provoking intro and for not saying thank you.

Steve  

[Julie McMorran]

Gosh, so much you have both said resonates with me. I feel it is one of those films that sticks in your head and which you must see several times to, even in some small way, decipher director/storyteller intent and analyse character portrayal. 

For me, too, the last part felt rushed, and I was pondering over that when the discussion headed off in that direction. Having listened to what Dominic and Connor said about it, I (think I) see it more clearly (the absolute beauty of Film Club!). I think it was what Dominic said about the analogy of the crocodiles and Connor said about how these decisions would be rushed as a resolution to the (embarrassing to the institution) problem. i.e., ‘Let’s just bury this as quickly and with as little fuss as possible.’  

I liked the inclusion of the daughter as her being there demonstrated Tar’s softer side, which for me helped to balance her character.

Like you, Alex, the first three scenes for me were fantastic. The interview part could have been perceived as being too long, but watching her reactions to the questions was fascinating - she is such a great actress. 

A small sidenote is the question we had: ‘Who else could have played Lydia Tar?’ The ‘Who else?’ question was one Darren used a lot, by the way, and can be a useful one for post-film discussions, especially when you have such a primary and powerful protagonist. Anyway… Connor and I discussed this in the car last night and thought of several actresses and quite quickly came up with one: Rebecca Hall. If you’ve not seen her in Resurrection, it’s well worth a watch! I used to not like her, but (like Cate Blanchett), she's grown on me: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11540726/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_2_act 

I, too, thought the cinematography and music were amazing. 

I also agree about starting long films earlier. Even 6.30 would make a difference to the potential for a longer and more detailed discussions in which more people can contribute. 

I’m looking forward to introducing EO next week, however I’m going to put myself through watching Au Hasard Balthazar later this week, which I’m definitely not looking forward to (the things we do… ).  

Messages passed on to Connor :- ) Thank you! 

Julie 

 PS Not sure I can use the 'Who else?' question next week: 'Who else could have played the donkey?' 

'Well, erm...'

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Sent: 14 February 2023 09:57
To: Robert Burns Centre Film Club <talk-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: (Robert Burns Centre Film Club) Re: TAR

 

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[Steveandkerry Riddell]

Isabel Huppert (not the donkey, Tar) 
Steve

[Julie McMorran]

Yes, I like her. Definitely a candidate - for Tar ;- ) !

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From: talk-...@googlegroups.com <talk-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Steveandkerry Riddell <stevea...@gmail.com>

Sent: 14 February 2023 14:44

To: Robert Burns Centre Film Club <talk-...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: (Robert Burns Centre Film Club) Re: TAR

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/talk-cinema/90951dae-24b9-4417-978b-8d711b364064n%40googlegroups.com.