Ayn Rand We The Living Quotes

[Henry Gallagher]

Ive been a lurker here on and off for quite a while,finally decided to join after re-reading Cholly's post on Rand living beyond the LB. Its funny how I can read all of the same quotes that he listed and come up with such a different opinion of what I expect will happen,though I do have a shadow of a doubt, and that's why I will read when R.J. writes.

**Theory: Rand al'Thor will die at Tarmon Gai'don, but his soul will live on in Moridin's body. Logain will rise up as the "General" in Rand's absence and will earn his glory. Alivia will kill Rand's body when Rand's soul is transferred to Moridin's body,and thus will Ishamael finally be destroyed.

I also think that only Alivia and Rand will know what has happened until after the funeral,Rand can't even bring himself to tell Min about the Aelfinn and Eelfinn answers, so how could he tell her this plan? What if it didn't work???

Interpret this as two times marked to live two times, and two times marked to die two times. Two lives, in two different bodies, and two deaths,Rand Al'Thor's body dies at the LB, and Rand's spirit lives on in Moridin's body after the LB to die a natural death some other time. Callandor's interpretation that it is four markings for one life and one death is an accurate interpretation as well, but no more valid, in my opinion.

3.The Shadow Rising, Chapter 3, Reflection, Page 71: "That is the one that will kill me, isn't it?" he asked her softly, then quoted," 'His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation.' "

6.Rand's feeling that if he moves a fraction of an inch, he will MERGE with the face in his mind. (from Knife Of Dreams in Lord Algarin's Manor house when he channels to fight the trollocs, I believe.)

This is important. He spends pretty much every waking moment trying to figure out how he will USE things, people, situations, etc to achieve victory at the LB and to LIVE. This forsaken in his mind is consuming his thoughts,why would he not try to USE a person for whom he has no love if he uses everyone he cares about?

7.A Crown Of Swords, Chapter 33, A Bath, Page 526: "She folded her arms and frowned up at him through her lashes. She chewed her lip and frowned at the door. She shook her head and muttered under her breath. At last she said," There is only one, really. I was exaggerating. I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and. . . ." Her mouth tightened worriedly, and she went on in a very small voice. I don't know which it means, Rand except that one of you dies and one doesn't. I-why are you grinning? This isn't a joke, Rand. I do not know which of you dies.""

Rand's masks are Lews Therin, Moridin, perhaps Lord of the Morning, all of his titles,but suddenly he merges with Moridin and Rand's soul is in that body and it is no longer a mask. (of course, there are other interpretations, but since they don't support MY theory, I'm not bringing them up!)

11.Lord Of Chaos, Chapter 19, Matter's Of Toh, Page 312: "Melaine and Bair dreamed of you [Rand] on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see and a scale tilting first one way and then the other. Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him,."

13.My personal desire to have Rand and his harem live a happy ending: Rand's unhealed wounds, his missing arm, his damaged eyes,his body is so shattered it is hardly worth keeping. Moridin's body, on the other hand, is young and beautiful. Also, it solves things like Rand not being able to channel without being dizzy and almost vomiting, Lews Therin being in his head, etc. Wholly a theory and desire, nothing to do with quotes or anything else.

When you say "finally be destroyed", how exactly are you proposing that the Dark One will be unable to transmigrate Ishamael, because your theory assumes that Rand will be able to take the body, which removes Balefire as a potential weapon. However, since I have always been a believer that Lanfear's knowledge is key to healing the Bore, I like the idea that Rand could extract that information from her as Moridin. When you think about it, the books are really about Lanfear, and how the Pattern attempts to correct itself after what she has done. Anyway, I'm sure there will be some discussion about your idea.

Nice to see some fresh theorizing going on in here, or fresh approvals I guess. Also glad to see someone else is jumping on the idea that perhaps the viewing MIn had referred to Moridin and not LTT... I've been pushing that one for a while.

Anyways, a few comments. How exactly does Rand get into Moridin's body? For all intents and purposes, there are only two ways this happens. Either the Wheel spins you out into a new body, which requires total death as a prerequisite, or the Dark One transfers your soul, which also requires a total death.

Now quite aside from the fact that your theory never has Rand truly dying, only leaping from body to body, there are a few problems in how he gets transferred. Clearly the Dark One isn't gonna do it... thats a given. And the Wheel ONLY spins out new Heroes, or at least their new incarnations, on a need-only basis. The Dragon has one use, and if he's just won Tarmon Gai'don, well... that use is not a necessity.

Your point of Rand and Moridin merging is a good one, but we have NO evidence that such a merge can either lead to a transfer of corporeal form OR that Rand can jump his consciousness from one body to another.

And what says Rand has to live? I've never seen this idea in my years on TL, though I'm sure someone has said it somewhere along the way.

What if just... dies? To live? There is no subject there. That could refer to the entire world, his memory/legacy... anything.

Even more profound might be the thought that as a Hero of the Horn, Rand lives even when he dies. As far as we can see, a Hero always takes his most recent reincarnation in terms of immediate looks and personality, though they keep the memories of all their lives. So by that logic, just as Rand hears LTT in his head, in 3000 more years, Joe Shmoe might hear Rand in his head.... thats a form of life... interesting thought.

Ozzy, we have seen the result of the Luc/Isam merger, we just don't know the mechanism. We know there is a connection between Rand and Moridin. The question is whether Rand can bootstrap that connection into a transfer. Maybe, like I said, there's already an existing connection to work with. And maybe it could happen as a result of their interaction during the last battle. The connection appears to have resulted from the crossing balefire in Shadar Logoth, so some further interaction could instigate a transfer. Too many unknowns to say definitively, but I'm betting on a transfer so Rand can die AND live, fulfilling the prophesy.

Stillchco:

That may be what you want, and it would be great if that were the case, but that doesn't mean that that's whats going to happen. I honestly don't know whats going to happen with Rand, but that doesn't mean that I can make something up and claim that it will happen because you can't disprove it. Its kind of like mythbusters, it may be plausible, but it can't be confirmed. And it seems like that's what your asking for.

Jak,

Not at all. I'm just extrapolating from the limited info we do have. I could very well be wrong. I'm just saying that I read the signs as pointing to a switch, which I think would allow the prophesy to be fulfilled. There are others on this board who believe that Rand must die, Period, End of game. No switch, no life after TG. I think they ignore the "to live" part. Some try to stretch the "to live" part into a reference to future lives when the Dragon is spun out by the Wheel again. I think that is too much of a stretch, but no one really knows what RJ is thinking. RAFO, of course. I don't think that Rand will necessarily plan the switch or even realize it's coming, but I do think it will happen. Not because you can't disprove it, but because that's where I see this going based on the clues we have. I'm not able to disprove the final death theory either, but that doesn't mean I buy it. One more clue: Min sees something "odd" about Rand and Avi's kids--I think they have dark hair like Moridin. Just speculation at this point, but we KNOW that Rand and Avi WILL have kids (Min's viewings never wrong), Avi cut him off after the first time in the igloo and has not shown any sign of relenting, and, unless they get busy REAL fast, those kids will have to be conceived AFTER the Last Battle...

Stilicho:

I'm not doubting that Rand will live. i think with a lot of the prophecies we have now, it will be more likely he will live. But we have no evidence for the switching of bodies (or nothing substantial at least). Just because Aviendha's babies are going to have black doesn't make them Moridin's babies. And the wierdness involved could mean that the bond formed by becoming sisters with Elayne creates a connection. It is just too much of a stretch to make it a likely possibility. The way we have seen nature work in RJ's world makes this a very hard feat to accomplish in my opinion, enough so that we need more evidence to back your theory.

A bond breaks when one of the bonded perishes, and Mistress Farshaw claims that she saw that or Rand, or "the other man" (although many arguments lead to Moridin being that other one, I still believe it is Lews Therin the viewing is referring to) dies.

When Rand kicks the Dark One's ass, a reward as letting him have his life would be enough. In his own body, or someone else's would not matter much to him. But aside from the Dark One and the Creator no one and nothing else can do such a transfer. The Dark One will be too dead/imprisoned/defeated-in-some-other-way to do him such a favor, and the Creator DOES NOT INTERFERE. From here my conclusion that Rand will live on in his own body (Moridin will most surely die, and I think that whatever kills him, the act will not leave a body).

As for the "get busy" part, I really doubt that either of Rand's women would let him get a f*** in another body except his own.

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