Re: Simultaneous TagTime
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Daniel Reeves
Mar 26, 2014, 5:16:57 PM3/26/14
to akratics, tag...@googlegroups.com
[Adding the TagTime google group.]
Valerio, if TagTime breaks your flow then I'd consider that a
dealbreaker at any ping frequency. But I think it's the opposite.
Quoting myself (actually this sounds more like Bethany -- I guess we
coauthored it) from messymatters.com/tagtime :
> We find it doesn't interrupt our flow at all. We think the difference is that it's not like, say, a pop-up email notifier that pulls your train of thought off in a new direction. It's almost the opposite: it reinforces what you're already focused on. It can even serve to get you back on track if your mind is starting to wander. "Oh yeah, this email is entirely unrelated to the work I intended to be doing. Whoops!"
I like Philip's argument that you might want more frequent pings to
reduce the risk of a derailment due to bad luck if you're beeminding a
tagtime-based goal. Though I think my tminder.meteor.com works well
for managing that risk. (I say, with a 0.4% and climbing risk of
derailing on bmndr.com/d/meta tonight.)
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Valerio De Camillis
<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1.
>
> I did try TagTime back when it was not configurable, and did stop using it
> for exactly this reason. 45 minutes were way too frequent.
> In the long run there's no statistical difference between sampling on an
> average of 45 min and, say, 2 hours, but in the second case you can actually
> get into flow at work or immerse yourself in a movie or a book for a
> reasonable lenght of time.
>
> Ciao,
> \\ Valerio De Camillis
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Katherine Baxter
> <baxter.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've been running with 45 minutes for now, but I find it a little annoying
>> at that frequency. I'm considering increasing the average time between
>> pings. So, I for one would be frustrated if it wasn't configurable.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Daniel Reeves <dre...@beeminder.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Let me also second Paul's suggestion that you always respect the first
>>> ping you hear regardless of what device it comes from. That's
>>> critical.
>>>
>>> Bethany's system clock actually keeps getting annoyingly out of sync
>>> and I keep having her run
>>> sudo ntpdate -u time.apple.com
>>> to fix it. (I know it does that automatically but apparently not often
>>> enough. She should probably cron that to run hourly.)
>>>
>>> If we do actually want the gap to be configurable, I love Paul and
>>> Benja's idea of making all ping schedules synced regardless of gap --
>>> if you have a smaller gap then you'll just get *additional* pings in
>>> between. Or if bigger you just will not get some of the pings. But
>>> again, first question is whether we can get away with making it moot
>>> by just making everyone use 45 minutes. I know some people will feel
>>> like it should be configurable on principle but unless someone feels
>>> strongly that 45 minutes doesn't work for them and some other gap
>>> does, then it would sure make a lot of problems go away to just fix
>>> that parameter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Braden Shepherdson
>>> <braden.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I was confused by this too: my wife's and my tagtime fire at the same
>>> > time,
>>> > generally within one second of each other.
>>> >
>>> > Neither of us ever changed the schedule, so it makes sense if we're
>>> > using
>>> > the same random seed.
>>> >
>>> > Braden
>>> >
>>> > On Tue Mar 25 2014 at 3:19:13 PM, Bethany M. Soule
>>> > <bso...@beeminder.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> whatwhatwhat? why are they *not* pinging at the same time?
>>> >>
>>> >> Ohh yeah, I let the configurable gap in at some point. If you never
>>> >> changed the gap you'd have the same schedule to begin with. (In our
>>> >> household all the devices ring out for attention in glorious unison).
>>> >> Is that something that people change just because they can, or is
>>> >> there evidence that there's actual value for it being different than
>>> >> 45 minutes?
>>> >>
>>> >> B
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Paul Crowley <ciphe...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > On Tuesday, 25 March 2014 19:03:03 UTC, Jolly wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Is this for multiple user tag time use, or single user, multiple
>>> >> >> devices
>>> >> >> tag time?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > We were imagining multiple users, but the algorithm would work just
>>> >> > as
>>> >> > well
>>> >> > in the other instance and that's probably a far more important use
>>> >> > case.
>>> >> > We
>>> >> > thought of it because it was slightly distracting that every so
>>> >> > often
>>> >> > one of
>>> >> > us would drop out of the conversation to tell our phones what we
>>> >> > were up
>>> >> > to,
>>> >> > but it would be less distracting if we were both doing it at once!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> >> > Groups
>>> >> > "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> >> > send
>>> >> > an
>>> >> > email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> http://bethaknee.com
>>> >> http://beeminder.com -- Reminders with a sting
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> >> Groups
>>> >> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> >> an
>>> >> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> > Groups
>>> > "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> > an
>>> > email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://dreev.es -- search://"Daniel Reeves"
>>> Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
http://dreev.es -- search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com
Valerio, if TagTime breaks your flow then I'd consider that a
dealbreaker at any ping frequency. But I think it's the opposite.
Quoting myself (actually this sounds more like Bethany -- I guess we
coauthored it) from messymatters.com/tagtime :
> We find it doesn't interrupt our flow at all. We think the difference is that it's not like, say, a pop-up email notifier that pulls your train of thought off in a new direction. It's almost the opposite: it reinforces what you're already focused on. It can even serve to get you back on track if your mind is starting to wander. "Oh yeah, this email is entirely unrelated to the work I intended to be doing. Whoops!"
I like Philip's argument that you might want more frequent pings to
reduce the risk of a derailment due to bad luck if you're beeminding a
tagtime-based goal. Though I think my tminder.meteor.com works well
for managing that risk. (I say, with a 0.4% and climbing risk of
derailing on bmndr.com/d/meta tonight.)
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Valerio De Camillis
<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1.
>
> I did try TagTime back when it was not configurable, and did stop using it
> for exactly this reason. 45 minutes were way too frequent.
> In the long run there's no statistical difference between sampling on an
> average of 45 min and, say, 2 hours, but in the second case you can actually
> get into flow at work or immerse yourself in a movie or a book for a
> reasonable lenght of time.
>
> Ciao,
> \\ Valerio De Camillis
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Katherine Baxter
> <baxter.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've been running with 45 minutes for now, but I find it a little annoying
>> at that frequency. I'm considering increasing the average time between
>> pings. So, I for one would be frustrated if it wasn't configurable.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Daniel Reeves <dre...@beeminder.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Let me also second Paul's suggestion that you always respect the first
>>> ping you hear regardless of what device it comes from. That's
>>> critical.
>>>
>>> Bethany's system clock actually keeps getting annoyingly out of sync
>>> and I keep having her run
>>> sudo ntpdate -u time.apple.com
>>> to fix it. (I know it does that automatically but apparently not often
>>> enough. She should probably cron that to run hourly.)
>>>
>>> If we do actually want the gap to be configurable, I love Paul and
>>> Benja's idea of making all ping schedules synced regardless of gap --
>>> if you have a smaller gap then you'll just get *additional* pings in
>>> between. Or if bigger you just will not get some of the pings. But
>>> again, first question is whether we can get away with making it moot
>>> by just making everyone use 45 minutes. I know some people will feel
>>> like it should be configurable on principle but unless someone feels
>>> strongly that 45 minutes doesn't work for them and some other gap
>>> does, then it would sure make a lot of problems go away to just fix
>>> that parameter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Braden Shepherdson
>>> <braden.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I was confused by this too: my wife's and my tagtime fire at the same
>>> > time,
>>> > generally within one second of each other.
>>> >
>>> > Neither of us ever changed the schedule, so it makes sense if we're
>>> > using
>>> > the same random seed.
>>> >
>>> > Braden
>>> >
>>> > On Tue Mar 25 2014 at 3:19:13 PM, Bethany M. Soule
>>> > <bso...@beeminder.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> whatwhatwhat? why are they *not* pinging at the same time?
>>> >>
>>> >> Ohh yeah, I let the configurable gap in at some point. If you never
>>> >> changed the gap you'd have the same schedule to begin with. (In our
>>> >> household all the devices ring out for attention in glorious unison).
>>> >> Is that something that people change just because they can, or is
>>> >> there evidence that there's actual value for it being different than
>>> >> 45 minutes?
>>> >>
>>> >> B
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Paul Crowley <ciphe...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > On Tuesday, 25 March 2014 19:03:03 UTC, Jolly wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Is this for multiple user tag time use, or single user, multiple
>>> >> >> devices
>>> >> >> tag time?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > We were imagining multiple users, but the algorithm would work just
>>> >> > as
>>> >> > well
>>> >> > in the other instance and that's probably a far more important use
>>> >> > case.
>>> >> > We
>>> >> > thought of it because it was slightly distracting that every so
>>> >> > often
>>> >> > one of
>>> >> > us would drop out of the conversation to tell our phones what we
>>> >> > were up
>>> >> > to,
>>> >> > but it would be less distracting if we were both doing it at once!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> >> > Groups
>>> >> > "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> >> > send
>>> >> > an
>>> >> > email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> http://bethaknee.com
>>> >> http://beeminder.com -- Reminders with a sting
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> >> Groups
>>> >> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> >> an
>>> >> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> > Groups
>>> > "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> > an
>>> > email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://dreev.es -- search://"Daniel Reeves"
>>> Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Akratics Anonymous" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
http://dreev.es -- search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com
Alessandro Cuttin
Mar 30, 2014, 7:37:25 AM3/30/14
to akratics, tag...@googlegroups.com
I thought about this problem, too.
I am more concerned about the synchronization between desktop tagtime and mobile tagtime, but have not tried it yet.
Having two mobile devices, though, I looked at how they work together.
Unfortunately, they are out of sync, even if I have configured the same time interval (30 min).
Now, my question is: is there a way to revert the situation? That is, if I uninstall and reinstall the apps (without time gap modification), will they be in sync?
-Alessandro
Daniel Reeves
Mar 30, 2014, 3:45:40 PM3/30/14
to tag...@googlegroups.com, akratics
Yes, that should do it. It would be nice to have like a markov
property where any two devices with the same gap are necessarily in
sync.
And to repeat: I love Paul and Benja's idea of making all ping
> "tagtime" group.
property where any two devices with the same gap are necessarily in
sync.
And to repeat: I love Paul and Benja's idea of making all ping
schedules synced regardless of gap -- if you have a smaller gap then
you'll just get *additional* pings in between. Or if bigger you just
will not get some of the pings.
you'll just get *additional* pings in between. Or if bigger you just
will not get some of the pings.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tagtime+u...@googlegroups.com.
Paul Crowley
Mar 30, 2014, 4:55:40 PM3/30/14
to tag...@googlegroups.com, akratics, dre...@beeminder.com
On Sunday, 30 March 2014 20:45:40 UTC+1, Daniel Reeves wrote:
And to repeat: I love Paul and Benja's idea of making all ping
schedules synced regardless of gap -- if you have a smaller gap then
you'll just get *additional* pings in between. Or if bigger you just
will not get some of the pings.
I will probably implement face down mode first because that meets my immediate need, but if I get that working I'm very tempted to do this next!
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