I tried to create a Chinese written language too

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MiLi

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May 25, 2010, 11:37:21 AM5/25/10
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It is very challenging. I tried to do it for Mandarin.

I briefly looked at what you did to get some ideas. I didn't find
anything that could help me for my own project.

Seems like Tadpolenese needs a lot more documentation, like a database
of the more common words and a list of homophone busters.

I took a completely different approach.....still have a long way to
go.




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MiLi

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Jun 12, 2010, 3:54:45 PM6/12/10
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I took a much different approach. I categorized some of the
characters and spelled them according to the category they fell into.
For example I used W in the words having to do with fire:

火花塞=hwohwa ssai=spark plug
燒熟=show shew=cook fully or thoroughly, or cook well-done.
炮=pow=cannon

I used a silent leading P in words have to do with problems.
差=pxa=poor quality; mistake; discrepancy
神經病=pshënjing pbing=psychological problem

Strange words are spelled in strange ways:
麻煩=maphagn
怪=guooye

Some of the categories have many, many words, but also there
are words that fall in no category. It seems miraculous how it all
fits together.

Everything is, of course, subject to change.

Little Tadpole

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Jun 14, 2010, 3:40:05 AM6/14/10
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Nowadays I am more interested in Old Chinese phonology. It's really interesting. Old Chinese is connected to some Native American languages. It's all very exciting. Old Chinese has a whole series of lateral consonants, and any initial consonant has four realizations (plain, glottalized, labial-palatalized, and labial-palatal-glottalized). I am realizing that instead of Sino-Tibetan, what people will be looking at in the future will be Sino-Dene: it's an old theory from Edward Sapir but now I've found solid phonological proofs. From the translation of the name of the city of Alexandria, we know that the lateral consonants still existed in Han dynasty. Lateral consonants are like /s/, /ts/, etc, but pronounced with the tip of the tongue "glued" to the "roof" (palate), much like /l/. Lateral consonants are very typical of American Indian languages, the word ending "tl" in "Nahuatl" gives you an idea, but there are other languages like Tlingit where the relationship to the Old Chinese system is more apparent. My findings are definitely earth-shattering. Edward Sapir, Georgiy Starostin both came very close, but I think I finally found the actual proofs.

Chinese phonology changed dramatically in history. That's what makes it hard to write out phonetically. I am of the opinion that by digging into the past, we can get better clues on how to romanize it. The shocking part is, it seems that the "Standard Chinese" was very well-defined. Contrary to popular perception of Chinese being a collection of loose sets of dialects, the "Standard Chinese" in the past actually seems to have very well defined phonology. Moreover, its phonology has such a pristine symmetry, that there is no way that it can be evolved from another language: it is the root of its own.

Little Tadpole

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Jun 14, 2010, 3:49:15 AM6/14/10
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Sorry, Sergei Starostin, not Georgiy Starostin.

MiLi

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Jun 22, 2010, 5:20:30 PM6/22/10
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Here's a simple technique to write many Chinese nouns.

Many Chinese nouns are compound words that end with the suffix 子.
These kinds of words typically have some meaning even with 子 removed.
For these kinds of words, we can write the word without 子 by attaching
a silent z at the end. We can wrote the word with 子 by adding an 'i'
at the end in which case the z becomes audible. This method takes
care of many, many of Chinese nouns.


Some examples:
位=weiz=seat (z silent).
位子=weizi=seat (z not silent).
各位=gheweiz=everyone in the audience (z silent)

蓋=gaiz=to cover; cover; lid (z silent)
蓋子=gaizi=cover; lid - (z not silent)

梯子=tizi=ladder
樓梯=lotiz=stairs

桌子=zhuozi=table
桌面=zhouzmien=desktop

The silent z simply indicates a kind of word that, when written with
Chinese characters, can accept 子 as a suffix to
form another word - a noun that often has the same meaning. Special
forms of z such as ƶ and ȥ are available for this purpose if for some
reason the regular z is found to be unsuitable.

Huanchiao Su

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Jun 24, 2010, 7:47:24 PM6/24/10
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It's a good idea for mandarin.

But for Taiwanese, the romanization of 子 is much simpler
“位子”is simply "wizu'' . But to be correct, it is 位 instead of 位子. In this case, 子 is meaningless and strictly a "Mandarin thing"
A succinct word 位(wi) is the perfect and needs 子。 It is wrong to say 位子 in Taiwanese.

MiLi

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Jun 25, 2010, 10:09:37 AM6/25/10
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You are right - my discussion is only about Mandarin. Actually I am
interested in these categorization ideas more than the language
itself.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/tadpolenese?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

MiLi

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Jul 28, 2010, 11:46:31 PM7/28/10
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Back to my Mandarin effort.

包 胞 bao
報 抱 bào
寶 bàó
飽 baaao
爆 b'ow (w means fire, as mentioned before)
保 baov (v means verb with 3rd tone)
薄 bau
刨 b'ao

Some common phrases and compound words:
bàótah
bàó dàó (precious island)
bàó bàó
baozi
bàozhill
baov Tai (defend or protect Taiwan)
baovyang
baowoué
bao scin zzai
bàogào
bàodao


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MiLi

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Aug 17, 2010, 6:15:34 PM8/17/10
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I realize it's possible to accomodate 15 or even 20 different kinds of
BAO with an alphabet.
Spellings like baogh, baugh, baoe, pbao all are acceptable.
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MiLi

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Aug 22, 2010, 12:17:40 AM8/22/10
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Now for LA. There are 6 common LA characters.

啦 = lah (le + ah)
拉 = la = to pull
For 垃圾 and 喇叭 we just reuse the plain la.
辣 = là = spicy
蠟 = laz = wax

Some common compound words and phrases:
lazhu = candle
lazi = a kind of bird; a kind of tree. (蠟子樹 is the Chinese tallow
tree, noted for its waxy seeds.)
Ing Guo de Là Maelle = Spice Girls of England
là giaotte=hot peppers
làzi = chili pepper
la mièn=handmade pulled noodles
la duz=to have diarrhea
d'a laz=to apply wax
hwolà=scorching; hot; sexy
laggi=garbage
laba=horn
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MiLi

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Sep 4, 2010, 4:45:38 PM9/4/10
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DE is an easy one.

的,得,地 = de
德 = Deu = Germany
德 = deu = ethics; morality; virtue

Deu Guo = Germany = Deutschland

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MiLi

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Sep 19, 2010, 9:49:25 PM9/19/10
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Six Common TIAN Characters

田 = tienne = farmland; field
天,添 = tien = day; heaven; sky; to add; to increase; to replenish
甜 = tiân = sweet
舔 = tienv = to lick (Verbs with 3rd tone often end with a silent v.)
填 = tyen = to fill; to stuff; to fill in (a form)

Some examples:
tiândiân = dessert
cien tien = day before yesterday
tienci = weather
tien fân = to get another helping of rice
Wo de tien!=Tien ah!=Oh my god!
Zhe shi women de tienne!.....Scia lai! Scia lai! (From the fight
over farmland in Miaoli County, Taiwan.)

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MiLi

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Sep 21, 2010, 5:32:01 PM9/21/10
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*** ZUI ***

最=zwei=the most
嘴=czwei=mouth (The c is silent like in czar.)
醉=zwee=drunk


I found c is a good symbol for words having to do with mouth.
Another example:
口=co=mouth


Also the words for TO SING, TO TASTE, and TO EAT all have a leading
c.
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MiLi

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Sep 27, 2010, 10:12:30 AM9/27/10
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Scienzai women lai caoon caoon zhe 5 zòó zì: ZUO, SOU, PIAO, GEI, FOU.
Now let's take a look at these 5 groups of words: ZUO, SOU, PIAO, GEI,
FOU.

做,作 = zuo = to make; to do; to compose
坐,座= zuoh = to sit; to ride; seat; stand (h resembles a chair.)
昨 = zuó = yesterday

左 = zuol = left
右 = your = right

搜 = so = to search

飄 = pião = to float ( ~ is good for representing water waves and sound
waves.)
漂 = piao = to bleach; elegant
票 = pllao = ticket

給 = gei = to give; for

浮 = fõ=to float

SOME EXAMPLE COMPOUND WORDS AND PHRASES
zuopin = work (of art)
gounzuo = work
zuoh scia = sit down
x'azuoh = electrical socket
zuoh ctte = to take a ride in the car
zuohweiz = seat
ihzi = chair (Again, h looks like a chair.)
zuó tien = yesterday
SOHU.COM = The Search Fox
piaobais = to bleach
muy pllao = buy tickets
t'o pllao = to cast a vote
Ma Ying-jeou, wo bu hui zais t'o pllao gei ni le.=Ma Ying-jeou, I will
not vote for you again. (From a citizen of Taiwan discontented with
the government of Taiwan.)
fõdiân = floating point (a kind of number stored in computers)

MiLi

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Sep 27, 2010, 11:27:06 PM9/27/10
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The character 把 (BA) is very remarkable. I hope in the next couple of
days I'll have some time to finish up the set of BA characters. Very
interesting.
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MiLi

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Oct 10, 2010, 6:46:35 PM10/10/10
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10 BA CHARACTERS

bah = 八 = 8
= 叭 = ba sound
b'a = 拔 = to pull out
(The apostrophe represents something
being plucked out from the word.)
bar = 巴 = unit of pressure
= 吧 = wine bar; beer bar; internet bar
(This loanword is spelled exactly as in English.)
bà = 爸 = father; dad
= 罷 = to stop; to cease
= 壩 = dam; dike (something to stop the water)
bãã = 疤 = scar
bav = 把 = handle; classifier for objects with a handle;
particle indicating the following noun is a
direct object; to hold; to grasp; to take hold of
ba = 巴 = to cling to; to stick to; common suffix for nouns;
= 吧 = modal particle with neutral sound often found at
the end of a sentence


EXAMPLE COMMON COMPOUND WORDS AND EXPRESSIONS
Bah....bah.....bahhh! = sound of automobile horn
labah = horn
'jiubar = bar; pub; saloon
bu ba gwo=does not stick to the wok when cooking
bàba=father; dad
dàbà=dam
Bav x'ato b'a xu lai.=Pull out the plug.
Bav ghaolizzai c'iexeng shill.=Cut the savoy cabbage into strips.
Nimen shii shii ba.=Give it a try.
Ni zai naar? Zai jia li ba.=Where are you? At home.
czweiba=mouth
ÿenba=salt
liian bav d'ao=two knives
saobav=broom
bàgoun=to strike


bav (把) is an interesting character. One can imagine how it evolved
from its meaning "to take." At first, it was used in a form such as:


Bav ihzi.


which means hold onto the chair. Later on:


Bav ihzi. Kna zhei li.


which means, "Take the chair. Bring it here."


Over time, perhaps after hundreds of years, bav has evolved beyond its
original meaning "to take" and into its use also as a direct object
indicator.


Bav ihzi kna zhei li.


Today, it can even be applied to objects that cannot be grasped by
hand.


Bav dhi sao hao.=Take the floor and sweep it.=Sweep the floor.


.
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MiLi

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Oct 31, 2010, 3:46:00 PM10/31/10
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Here's some more:

9 MEI CHARACTERS.


每=mhei=each; every
美=mei=beautiful
眉,玫=mé=eyebrow; rose
梅=méiz=plum
莓=mée=berry
煤,霉=méi=coal; mildew
妹=mae=maelle=sister
沒=meie=not


SOME EXAMPLES
zzowmée=strawberry
Mei Guo=United States
mei wei=delicious
mhei ghe; mhei zhi; etc.=every one
mhei zzi=every time
fa méi=to become moldy
méiz hwa ro=the meat from the front of a pig around the shoulders
mémow=eyebrow
meishill=gourmet food
méizi=plum

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MiLi

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Nov 21, 2010, 1:07:35 AM11/21/10
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Add a few more.

夏,下 = scia = summer; down; downward
蝦 = sciag = shrimp
嚇 = sciah = to frighten
瞎 = sceea = blind
哪 = naa = which
那 = na = that; those; then
拿,拏,挐 = ná (or maybe kna ?) = to take; to sieze; to apprehend
內 = nei = inner; interior

EXAMPLES:
nascie=those
Nimen do paov dao naar çu?=Where did everyone go?
Ná ea ghe lai shii shii.=Let's take one and try it.

MiLi

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Nov 24, 2010, 12:46:57 AM11/24/10
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涕,嚏 = tigh = mucous; sneeze (gh is silent)
屁 = pigh = fart (gh is silent)

d'a tigh = to sneeze
pighu = butt (gh no longer silent)

MiLi

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Nov 29, 2010, 11:35:26 AM11/29/10
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誰=shway=shay=who
水=shwei=water
稅=shui=taxes

(ee shows 2 closed eyes)
睡=shwee=to sleep
瞇=mee=squint
閉=bee=to close

面麵=mièn=face; surface; side; flour
mien=all MIAN's with 3rd tone
mień=all MIAN's 2nd tone

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MiLi

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Dec 14, 2010, 3:06:48 PM12/14/10
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A BETTER IDEA - A HYBRID
1. Choose custom spellings for more common words. Try to avoid too
many diacritical marks for this part.
2. For the rest, use some phonetic script.

If some confusion arises in 2, the word in 2 can be customized and
moved to 1.

*****************************************************************

Now onto WO.

CUSTOMIZED SPELLING
wo = I
wuoh = woh = exclamation of surprise.

PHONETIC SCRIPT
wuo = nest, whirlpool, eddy, all other WO with tone 1 or neutral tone.
wùo = shake hands, to hold, and all other WO with tone 4.
wùó = all other WO with tone 3 except for 我.
There is no WO with tone 2.

MiLi

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Jan 6, 2011, 11:50:46 PM1/6/11
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Now for HAI.

CUSTOMIZED SPELLING
嗨=hye=oh alas; hey; hi
孩=haiz=child
害=hy=to do harm; evil; calamity
海=hãi=ocean; sea (~ represents waves.)
咳=haigh=sound of sighing


PHONETIC SCRIPT
hai (Tone 2 is the default tone. The default tone is the tone for
the word absent a diacritial mark.)
hàí (Tone 3)
hài (Tone 4)
There is no HAI with tone 1 in the phonetic script because all
variations of HAI with tone 1 have been customized.


Examples:
haizi=child
hypà=to be afraid
Hai hio sheme zai limièn?=What else is inside?
haishi=or
hai hao=not bad; fortunately
hai bu ru=might as well

MiLi

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Jan 6, 2011, 11:58:26 PM1/6/11
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MIAN

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS

PHONETIC SCRIPT
面,麵=mièn=face; surface; side; flour.
mień=all MIAN's 2nd tone.
mien=all MIAN's with 3rd tone. (Default tone is 3 here. The default
tone is the tone for the word absent a diacritical mark.)



MiLi

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Jan 9, 2011, 2:53:47 PM1/9/11
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** LAI **

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS YET FOR LAI

PHONETIC SCRIPT
lai (tone 2. Default tone.)
lài (tone 4)
No other tones for lai.

Qiv lai! Qiv lai! Qiv lai!=Arise! Arise! Arise! (From the Chinese
national anthem.)


** PA **

CUSTOMIZED WORDS
pah=to lie on stomach; the "pah" sound
paz=rake

PHONETIC SCRIPT
pa (tone 2. Default tone.)
pà=to be afraid


pe=hankerchief (Pronunciation changed to a schwa.)

MiLi

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Jan 11, 2011, 6:45:20 PM1/11/11
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DEI

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS

PHONETIC SCRIPT
得 = deiv = must; to have to (There is only one character in this
group.)

Example:
Wo deiv çu zzesuo.=I have to go to the restroom.
**************************************

XIE
We use "sc" instead x. I use x for something else.

CUSTOMIZED WORDS
鞋 = scyez = shoe
蟹 = scieg = crab
瀉 = sciẽ = to flood; a torrent; diarrhea (To be consistent, we use the
tilde to indicate a wave as was done with other words.)

PHONETIC SCRIPT
scie for tone 1 (default tone)
scieá for tone 2
sciev for tone 3 (Only one character: the verb WRITE)
sciè for tone 4

EXAMPLES
sciè scie=thank you
scieápuo=slope
scyezi=shoe
zhei scie ren=these people

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MiLi

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Jan 11, 2011, 9:24:34 PM1/11/11
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DIE

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS
PHONETIC SCRIPT
die (tone 1)
dieá = (tone 2)
No tone 3 and no tone 4.

*********************************************

BIE

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS
PHONETIC SCRIPT
bie (tone 1)
biè (tone 2)
bièá = deflated; shriveled; sunken (tone 3; only one character)
bieá (tone 4)

*****************************************

NIE

NO CUSTOMIZED WORDS
PHONETIC SCRIPT
nie = to pinch (tone 1; only one character)
niè (tone 4)
No tone 2 and no tone 3 for group.

MiLi

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Jan 28, 2011, 9:04:16 PM1/28/11
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*** ZHAO ***

CUSTOMIZED WORDS
著 = zhow = to catch fire; to sleep (This is the only tone 2 version of
ZHAO.)
沼 = zhão = pool; pond (tone 3)

PHONETIC SCRIPT
找 = zhaov = to seek (The only remaining tone 3 version of ZHAO.)
zhao (Tone 1. Default tone. The default tone is the tone for the
word absent a diacritical mark.)
zhào (Tone 4)

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MiLi

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Feb 20, 2011, 5:45:14 PM2/20/11
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LE

Here, we will try to use LE with no diacritical marks for all tones.
There are only two tones: 4 and neutral.

For words like 快乐, everyone familiar with Mandarin Chinese already
knows the correct tones for this compound word. Similarly for 垃圾
(lese - in Taiwan this means garbage). Perhaps tone markers are
unnecessary here. We'll try to do without them but if problems arise
we can make adjustments later.


MiLi

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Mar 15, 2011, 11:10:45 AM3/15/11
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Some Unicode characters that might be useful:

ɨŋηńěǎřøčšзэȥẑƶẕẓẽåὰἀῦ

I will look for some more when I have time.

MiLi

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Apr 14, 2011, 3:31:48 PM4/14/11
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Here one from Lithuanian: ų

I was writing çu for 去 but now I think cų or something similar to cų
is better.

MiLi

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May 28, 2011, 2:26:09 PM5/28/11
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XIAN - This one is interesting because tone markers and tonal spelling
are completely avoided.

The non-customized version is always spelled scien. The reader must
infer the tone from the other syllables (if any) that it is bound to.
If this concept leads to ambiguity, we can change it later.


CUSTOMIZED VERSIONS:

sciẽn = string
ÿen = salt
scÿen = salty
scienne = county
scere = filling (for dumplings or patties)

EXAMPLES OF WORDS USING THE NON-CUSTOMIZED VERSION "SCIEN"
wéscien = dangerous
scienzai = now
fascien = to discover
scien = first; tasty
scinscien = fresh
hãiscien = seafood

MiLi

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Jun 14, 2011, 11:37:57 AM6/14/11
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I think MING is like XIAN in that indicators for tone are
unnecessary. Some very common words:

mingzì=name
mingzzí=noun
kuming=bitter
faming=to invent
mingscien=clear; obvious
bàoming=to register
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