自由软件在web开发领域的应用

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Nala Ginrut

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Mar 14, 2019, 11:06:17 PM3/14/19
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昨晚聚会我们探讨了自由软件在web开发领域的应用。
为方便讨论，我们给自由软件下的定义是''GPL及GPL兼容的开源协议"，比如BSD(2或3条款)、MIT协议、Apache2.0、Artistic License 2.0等。
当然这个定义未免狭隘，这个世界上也存在不与GPL兼容的开源协议，比如DWTFYWT (Do What The Fuck You Want) license。不过用的比较稀少。

经过一番讨论发现，在Web领域，基本上都是自由软件的天下了。后端自不必说，各种框架都是自由软件，连微软的.net都大部分是自由的了(当然还是保留了私有部分)。
前端的话，MIT协议很受欢迎，webpack、gulp.js、babel、React这些都是MIT协议，NPM是Artistic License 2.0。

熟悉Web开发的同学或许已经发现了，这些东西基本上已构成一个web开发的主轴。

下次聚会我们来探讨下目前可选的云服务，及如何以更低成本使用自由软件建立起一个web服务。

欢迎大家踊跃分享。

Terry Ouyang

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Mar 15, 2019, 2:56:14 AM3/15/19
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确实现在整个行业都基本上重度依赖开源产品了，不过怎么说呢，我觉得还是没有以前捣鼓东西的乐趣。。现在仿佛随便弄点东西都是一大串链条的，工业化的工具。。。毕竟都变成企业在搞了，很多时候是公司与公司的对话

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年3月15日周五 上午11:06写道：
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Zephyr Waitzman

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Mar 15, 2019, 10:36:30 AM3/15/19
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开源给企业带来了实实在在的好处，所以大部分除非是迫不得已的情况下大都会选择非copeleft的开源协议满足企业既有人以低廉成本和高质量地给他打工又可以自己拿来继续不开源限制用户的自由，他们的本意并不是给用户自由。
我觉得作为个人来说还是应该使用GPL在个人项目中并且多用自由软件称之开源软件。
企业可以利用自由软件开发者节约成本或者推动创新，我们也可以利用企业的所谓开源来为我们赢得自由。
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Nala Ginrut

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Mar 15, 2019, 11:23:12 AM3/15/19
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@zephyr 确实，你的观点涉及到了一个很重要的点，那就是自由软件关注的并非商业、成本和技术门槛，而是一种关于使用者选择自由的伦理观。当然，这么说并不意味着商业、成本和降低技术门槛就不重要，这就好像当我们强调阳光的重要性时，我们并没有否认空气具有同等重要性。
经过自由软件多年的发展，我们可以发现，强调这种选择自由的同时产生了：

1、全新的商业模式：参考股哥、微软、脸书等
2、成本骤降：降低的成本转移到了工程师的工资上
3、门槛降低：只要人们愿意，中学生就能成为各种框架、编译器或操作系统的专家。

但是反过来，有了这三点，却无法保证使用者选择的自由。如果我们不强调这种自由的重要性，反倒强调它的以上副产品，那就好比我们喜欢一只鸡下的金蛋，却不愿意喂养这只鸡一样。

'Zephyr Waitzman' via Shenzhen DIY community <sz...@googlegroups.com> 于 2019年3月15日周五 22:36写道：
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Iru Cai

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Mar 15, 2019, 11:29:02 AM3/15/19
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On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 11:23 PM Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> wrote:
@zephyr 确实，你的观点涉及到了一个很重要的点，那就是自由软件关注的并非商业、成本和技术门槛，而是一种关于使用者选择自由的伦理观。当然，这么说并不意味着商业、成本和降低技术门槛就不重要，这就好像当我们强调阳光的重要性时，我们并没有否认空气具有同等重要性。
经过自由软件多年的发展，我们可以发现，强调这种选择自由的同时产生了：

1、全新的商业模式：参考股哥、微软、脸书等
2、成本骤降：降低的成本转移到了工程师的工资上
3、门槛降低：只要人们愿意，中学生就能成为各种框架、编译器或操作系统的专家。


我怎么觉得这三点都是开源运动的产物？虽然“开源软件”和“自由软件”在定义上等价，但是在宣传上的效果区别很大。我的看法是，“自由软件”强调四种自由，是站在用户的立场上说的；“开源软件”强调的是软件的协作开发，以提高质量，降低成本，是站在开发者的立场上说的。


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Nala Ginrut

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Mar 15, 2019, 12:23:31 PM3/15/19
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把自由软件同开源对立起来是很奇怪的，自由软件的第一自由度(研究及修改软件作品的自由)就是以开源为前提的，开源运动只是将这一点进行强调而已，其实自由软件不仅强调了开源，还有其它自由，不了解的同学可参考其它三个自由度：

开源的自由是与使用、分发和改善的自由互为前提的，如果我们只强调开源及开源运动的重要，就好像我们吃第四张饼吃饱了，但并不是说我们只需要第四张饼就足够了。

Iru Cai <mytbk...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月15日周五 23:29写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 21, 2019, 12:17:55 AM3/21/19
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今晚有2个有趣的东西一定要跟大家分享一下，第一个是关于WASM的最近进展及简单介绍下怎么玩，还有一个么。。。

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月16日周六 00:23写道：

Terry Ouyang

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Mar 21, 2019, 12:36:44 AM3/21/19
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今晚要发版，不知道赶不赶得上。

还有一个按禅师的惯例肯定是要吹的牛逼



Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年3月21日周四 下午12:17写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 21, 2019, 3:39:12 AM3/21/19
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嗯，那就是第三个了

Terry Ouyang <terry....@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月21日周四 12:36写道：

Charles Lee

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Mar 21, 2019, 5:49:15 AM3/21/19
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请问今晚主题是什么？

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 21, 2019, 5:54:18 AM3/21/19
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还是这个主题

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 21, 2019, 12:00:47 PM3/21/19
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今天晚上分享的东西我大体总结一下，方便有兴趣的同学自行查找和娱乐：
1、云服务提供商的简单选择，简单来说，如果自己很熟悉Linux和系统配置，那么直接买vultr或者linode这样的VPS就行了。如果不熟悉或者有非常高的要求，那么AWS和Azure会是不错的选择，这样你可以不用自己搭建服务并且去扩展系统，只需要直接使用服务商提供的API就能完成工作了。AWS的收费内容看似复杂，其实还蛮良心的，虽然做点啥事都要收钱，但自己花钱花得明明白白，可以选择的套餐也非常多。不过Azure在中国有4个数据中心，而AWS只有两个，看你有多大需求了，一般个人或者小团队也考虑不了这些。

2、为什么这个年代我们需要关注Web，因为趋势是把所有东西往Web上搬，各大巨头为此做了许多事情。比如WASM，我们可以把C、C＋＋、rust等语言写的程序直接编译成可以在Web上跑的程序，WASM标准成熟之后会有更多语言加入这个体系。现在WASM的编译器已经可以方便下载安装了，有兴趣的同学自行搜索WASM官网，几行命令就搞定了，太具体的可以另行询问。

3、Web对于搞开源硬件的同学有什么需要关注的？
首先esp8266大大降低了嵌入式设备接入互联网的成本（当然功耗是另一个问题），另外W3C最近引入了一项新标准WebAuth，让外设接入PC进行验证成为了网页端的标准，这样就有机会做到我们之前提过的匿名社交。所谓匿名并不需要完全拒绝服务器存储自己的信息，只需要让这种信息无法关联或者难以关联到本人即可，对于开源硬件来说，做一个极低成本的登录设备（只需存储相关密钥即可），在不想要这个账号的时候重新刷密钥或者扔掉设备即可。

本周内容较多，所以没有时间分享SZDIY社区十周年的庆典项目，下次继续吧。



Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月21日周四 下午5:54写道：

Terry Ouyang

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Mar 21, 2019, 10:28:03 PM3/21/19
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话说通过浏览器+usb token自动登录网站这种方式是不是可以实现了？

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年3月22日周五 上午12:00写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 22, 2019, 3:58:27 AM3/22/19
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看了下标准，靠usb验证web服务貌似是最基本的，那么银行的U盾将不再是win独占了，而且有统一安全标准了

Terry Ouyang <terry....@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月22日周五 10:28写道：

Tony Wang

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Mar 22, 2019, 11:17:33 AM3/22/19
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在安全等级上以及便利性上，U 盾和 Google Authenticator 这种 TOTP 验证方式有多大差别呢？

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 22, 2019, 11:47:14 AM3/22/19
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虽然具体没研究过，但U盾这种方式感觉跟Linux用户平时用的公钥体系差不多，只不过win下要装插件去读U盘里的密钥并且让web端响应，如果是Linux下的话，gnupg自带这种读U盘密钥验证的功能。

当然，所谓从U盘上读密钥不是存个文件在上面读，gnupg支持的设备是日本黑客NIIBE所作的兼容设备，这个插件也是他写的，他曾经多次到访SZDIY社区。大体原理是从stm32的sram里读，设备并不会映射到VFS，所以实际不会变成一个U盘。当然这种方式由于无法控制设备生产，也无法绝对安全，肯定也比不了Apple处理器上的Security Enclave技术，不过低成本下对普通人完全足够了。

至于TOTP，局限性太大了，糟点太多，只是没别的办法大家只好不去想。我想只是在WebAuth出来之前的低成本替代品而已。当然，如果是工业上或IoT的话，利用TOTP来验证接入还是非常合适的。

Tony Wang <plantp...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月22日周五 23:17写道：

Tony Wang <plantp...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月22日周五 23:17写道：

Rafael Lee

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Mar 22, 2019, 12:29:30 PM3/22/19
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Niibe 的 token 是把密文发到芯片上，芯片用私钥解密，把明文发回 PC。
话说通过浏览器+usb token自动登录网站这种方式是不是可以实现了？

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话说通过浏览器+usb token自动登录网站这种方式是不是可以实现了？

>>>>>>>> >> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com。

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>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>>>> > 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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>>>>>>>> > 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> GNU powered it...
>>>>>>>> GPL protect it...
>>>>>>>> GOD blessing it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Wi24rd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了 Google 网上论坛的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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>>>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问 https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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>>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> My website: https://vimacs.lcpu.club
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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Nala Ginrut

unread,
Mar 22, 2019, 7:53:49 PM3/22/19
to sz...@googlegroups.com
我说错了一点，不是sram应该是片内rom。
公钥体系都需要将密文用密钥解密，NIIBE设备的巧妙之处是，私钥不是从rom上传回PC再用于解密，否则传输中或内存dump就会暴露密钥，而是直接在设备上解密。当然这个设计不是独创的，Apple的Security Enclave也是类似效果，只不过stm32要强行从sram里读是有办法的(淘宝有路子)，但破解Security Enclave就比stm32难了，但并不是不可能，之前FBI破解不了苹果手机的新闻闹得沸沸扬扬，其实人家是想在不破坏芯片的情况下破解。

Rafael Lee <rafael...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 00:29写道：
话说通过浏览器+usb token自动登录网站这种方式是不是可以实现了？

>>>>>>>> >> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>>>> >> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> > Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> > szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>> > http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>>>> > 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>> > 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>>>> > 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> GNU powered it...
>>>>>>>> GPL protect it...
>>>>>>>> GOD blessing it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Wi24rd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to sz...@googlegroups.com
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>>>>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了 Google 网上论坛的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问 https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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>>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> My website: https://vimacs.lcpu.club
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>
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话说通过浏览器+usb token自动登录网站这种方式是不是可以实现了？

>>>>>>>> >> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>>>> >> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> > Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> > szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>> > http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>>>> > 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>> > 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。

>>>>>>>> > 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> GNU powered it...
>>>>>>>> GPL protect it...
>>>>>>>> GOD blessing it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Wi24rd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
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>>>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
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>>>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> My website: https://vimacs.lcpu.club
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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XiaShali

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Mar 22, 2019, 11:26:07 PM3/22/19
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U 盾是存放证书的智能卡，动态口令器就是 TOTP。

Tony Wang <plantp...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月22日周五 23:17写道：
在安全等级上以及便利性上，U 盾和 Google Authenticator 这种 TOTP 验证方式有多大差别呢？

XiaShali

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Mar 22, 2019, 11:26:07 PM3/22/19
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现在用的比较多的是 Yubikey 之类的 FIDO U2F 验证。

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月22日周五 23:47写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 22, 2019, 11:28:22 PM3/22/19
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是的，业内用yubikey比较多，但我们讨论的是自由软硬件，所以聊的是niibe的一个自由替代品fst-01

XiaShali <cn.xi...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 11:26写道：

XiaShali

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Mar 23, 2019, 1:36:39 AM3/23/19
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U2F 的开源硬件实现有 u2f-zero, FIDO2 的话有 Solo, Gnuk Token 更像是一个智能卡。

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 11:28写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 23, 2019, 1:37:29 AM3/23/19
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谢谢告知，这两个还没了解过

XiaShali <cn.xi...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 13:36写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 23, 2019, 1:42:36 AM3/23/19
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看了下U2f-zero发现放弃维护了，不过fodo涵盖了u2f和fido2

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 23, 2019, 1:43:36 AM3/23/19
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写错了，solo涵盖了u2f和fido2

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 13:42写道：
看了下U2f-zero发现放弃维护了，不过fodo涵盖了u2f和fido2

Nala Ginrut

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Mar 23, 2019, 1:55:57 AM3/23/19
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Fido2跟WebAuth是兼容的，感觉solo是个好东东

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年3月23日周六 13:43写道：

bin zhang

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Apr 3, 2019, 5:21:04 AM4/3/19
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Nala Ginrut 后两个内容很感兴趣
简单说下第一个，云服务的好处是升降配很灵活，所以使用时你可以先从最低配置用起
AWS，Azure，GCP 新用户都有免费使用一年的优惠，包含各种服务，主机、数据库、搜索引擎等等，大家可尝试一下，阿里云、腾讯云也有一定的优惠
我个人会通过 http://cloudping.bastionhost.org/ 这个网站进行地域的选择，找离自己最快且不用备案的节点

bin zhang
architect at huifenqi
beijing
+86 13436800039
iamsk...@gmail.com
https://iamsk.info/

Aaron Xu

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Apr 3, 2019, 6:45:48 AM4/3/19
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我就是AWS免费一年入坑的，现在就当个梯子每个月6/7美金交了三四年了……

Nala Ginrut

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Apr 3, 2019, 7:38:32 AM4/3/19
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欢迎加入本周的讨论，如果无法加入现场讨论，云讨论也欢迎~
这个话题感觉可以持续很长，因为它不仅涉及到技术乐趣，还涉及到一个完整的产业链

Nala Ginrut

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Apr 3, 2019, 1:02:49 PM4/3/19
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如今前后端分离让web开发的分工越发细致，耦合度也更为合理。明天的聚会我们来聊一聊web开发的几种前端交互模式，最后再来看看如今的前端框架是如何方便集成到现代web框架当中的。

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于 2019年4月3日周三 下午7:38写道：

Terry Ouyang

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Apr 3, 2019, 7:55:42 PM4/3/19
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然而我要缺席，真遗憾！

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月4日周四 上午1:02写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Apr 17, 2019, 7:46:38 AM4/17/19
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上周没有讲成前端框架的集成，这周以我的Artanis后端框架为例介绍下怎么集成React和Typescript

Terry Ouyang <terry....@gmail.com> 于 2019年4月4日周四 07:55写道：

Nala Ginrut

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Apr 20, 2019, 2:27:29 AM4/20/19
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附上文档，有兴趣可以提问

chiachen

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Apr 21, 2019, 10:24:21 AM4/21/19
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谢谢

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月20日周六 下午2:27写道：

chiachen

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Apr 21, 2019, 10:27:35 AM4/21/19
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请问嵌入式设备的WEB配置管理用哪个开源的方案比较快速便捷并且扩展方便。

chiachen <luoji...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月21日周日 下午10:24写道：

chiachen

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Apr 21, 2019, 10:28:42 AM4/21/19
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最好还要看起来有点酷炫的感觉。
>>>>>>>>>>> 连微软的.net <http://xn--g5t512c0trwma.net>都大部分是自由的了(当然还是保留了私有部分)。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> 前端的话，MIT协议很受欢迎，webpack、gulp.js、babel、React这些都是MIT协议，NPM是Artistic
>>>>>>>>>>> License
>>>>>>>>>>> 2.0。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 熟悉Web开发的同学或许已经发现了，这些东西基本上已构成一个web开发的主轴。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 下次聚会我们来探讨下目前可选的云服务，及如何以更低成本使用自由软件建立起一个web服务。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 欢迎大家踊跃分享。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Google
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到
>>>>>>>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Google
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> My website: https://vimacs.lcpu.club
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork
>>>>>>>>>>> documents. Send OpenDocument instead!
>>>>>>>>>>> http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>> the Google
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到
>>>>>>>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到
>>>>>>>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Groups "Shenzhen DIY community" group.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To post to this group, send email to sz...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.szdiy.org
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/szdiy?hl=zh-CN
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 您收到此邮件是因为您订阅了Google网上论坛上的“Shenzhen DIY community”群组。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 要退订此群组并停止接收此群组的电子邮件，请发送电子邮件到
>>>>>>>>>>> szdiy+un...@googlegroups.com。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 要查看更多选项，请访问https://groups.google.com/d/optout。
>>>>>>>>>>> >>

Nala Ginrut

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Apr 21, 2019, 11:25:11 AM4/21/19
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嵌入式你是说跑在esp上？应该有现成的，不过就别指望现代框架了，搜一下看看吧



chiachen <luoji...@gmail.com> 于 2019年4月21日周日 22:28写道：

chiachen

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Apr 23, 2019, 9:02:05 PM4/23/19
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你说的ESP是？

Nala Ginrut <nalag...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月21日周日 下午11:25写道：

danfei

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Apr 23, 2019, 9:04:25 PM4/23/19
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他说的应该是乐鑫espressif的芯片

chiachen <luoji...@gmail.com>于2019年4月24日 周三上午9:02写道：
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