Theory and Therapy of Representations

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Jon Awbrey

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Dec 18, 2019, 1:00:45 PM12/18/19
to Cybernetic Communications, Ontolog Forum, Structural Modeling, SysSciWG
All,

"Representation" is a concept we find at the intersection of
cybernetics, epistemology, logic, mathematics, politics, and
psychologies both cognitive and clinical. In my own studies
it led me from math to psych and back again, with sidelong
glances at the history of democratic governance. Here's
one blog post recent discussions brought back to mind:

Cf: Theory and Therapy of Representations : 1
At: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2016/03/13/theory-and-therapy-of-representations-%e2%80%a2-1/

<QUOTE>
Again, in a ship, if a man were at liberty to do what
he chose, but were devoid of mind and excellence in
navigation (???????????? ????????????????????????), do you perceive
what must happen to him and his fellow sailors?

-- Plato : Alcibiades, 135A
</QUOTE>

Re: Michael Harris
At: https://mathematicswithoutapologies.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/tim-gowers-as-public-intellectual/

Statistics were originally the data that a ship of state needed
for stationkeeping and staying on course. The Founders of the
United States, like the Cybernauts of the Enlightenment they
were, engineered a ship of state with checks and ballasts
and error-controlled feedbacks to achieve the bicameral
purpose of representing both reality and the will of
the people. And Max Weber understood that a state's
accounting systems were intended as representations
of realities that its crew and passengers must
observe or perish.

The question for our time is --

What are the forces that distort our representations
of what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended?

Regards,

Jon

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Jack Ring

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Dec 18, 2019, 6:56:08 PM12/18/19
to structura...@googlegroups.com, Cybernetic Communications, Ontolog Forum, SysSciWG
Re: "What are the forces that distort our representations
of what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended??”

The main force is he multi-hundred-thousand pieces of legislation, 99.9999% of which are rife with logic, semantic and timeline faults.
Dr. John Woods, INCOSE San Diego Chapter, is working this.
Ack Ring
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Paola Di Maio

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Dec 19, 2019, 11:09:05 AM12/19/19
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Thank you Jon
have been working on this question a lot :-)
 

What are the forces that distort our representations
of what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended?

the short answer is.... the force behind all distortions is 
our own unenlightened mind, and all the shortfalls this comes with

:-)

PDM


  


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Lenard Troncale

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Dec 20, 2019, 6:34:13 AM12/20/19
to Structural Modeling, Cybernetic Communications, Ontolog Forum, SysSciWG
Levine’s theory of "Default to Truth" is one of the reasons there is such diversity in “what’s observed, what’s expected, and what’s intended” as well as explaining much of current political debate. Perhaps a look at the new book by Malcolm Gladwell entitled, TALKING TO STRANGERS would be useful to dissecting these multiple causes.

Len

On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:30 PM, Jack Ring <jri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: "What are the forces that distort our representations
of what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended??”

The main force is he multi-hundred-thousand pieces of legislation, 99.9999% of which are rife with logic, semantic and timeline faults.
Dr. John Woods, INCOSE San Diego Chapter, is working this.
Ack Ring


On Dec 18, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Jon Awbrey <jaw...@att.net> wrote:

All,

"Representation" is a concept we find at the intersection of
cybernetics, epistemology, logic, mathematics, politics, and
psychologies both cognitive and clinical.  In my own studies
it led me from math to psych and back again, with sidelong
glances at the history of democratic governance.  Here's
one blog post recent discussions brought back to mind:

Cf: Theory and Therapy of Representations : 1


<QUOTE>
Again, in a ship, if a man were at liberty to do what
he chose, but were devoid of mind and excellence in
navigation (???????????? ????????????????????????), do you perceive
what must happen to him and his fellow sailors?

-- Plato : Alcibiades, 135A
</QUOTE>

Re: Michael Harris


Statistics were originally the data that a ship of state needed
for stationkeeping and staying on course.  The Founders of the
United States, like the Cybernauts of the Enlightenment they
were, engineered a ship of state with checks and ballasts
and error-controlled feedbacks to achieve the bicameral
purpose of representing both reality and the will of
the people.  And Max Weber understood that a state's
accounting systems were intended as representations
of realities that its crew and passengers must
observe or perish.

The question for our time is --

What are the forces that distort our representations
of what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended?

Regards,

Jon

--

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Jon Awbrey

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Dec 20, 2019, 9:20:26 PM12/20/19
to Cybernetic Communications, Ontolog Forum, Structural Modeling, SysSciWG
Cf: Theory and Therapy of Representations : 4
At: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2019/12/20/theory-and-therapy-of-representations-%e2%80%a2-4/

Re: Theory and Therapy of Representations : 3
::: https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2019/12/19/theory-and-therapy-of-representations-%e2%80%a2-3/

Re: Ontolog Forum ( https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ontolog-forum/Ek_7cCCyFkQ/overview
PDM https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ontolog-forum/Ek_7cCCyFkQ/qI0kQv4UAgAJ

JA:
What are the forces distorting our representations of
what's observed, what's expected, and what's intended?

PDM:
The short answer is .... the force behind all distortions is our
own unenlightened mind, and all the shortfalls this comes with.

I think that's true, we have to keep reflecting on the state of our
personal enlightenments. If we can do that without losing our heads
and our systems thinking caps, then there will be much we can do to
promote the general Enlightenment of the State.

Well, the weekend is upon me, and I find myself in a weakened state,
so I'll leave off here with another recurring train of thoughts:

Cf: Theory and Therapy of Representations : 2
At: https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2016/12/19/theory-and-therapy-of-representations-%e2%80%a2-2/

In a complex society, people making decisions and taking actions at places remote from you have the power to affect your
life in significant ways. Those people are your government, no matter what spheres of influence they inhabit, private
or public. The only way you get a choice in that governance is if there are paths of feedback that allow you to affect
the life of those decision makers and action takers in significant ways. That is what accountability, response-ability,
and representative government are all about.

Naturally, some people are against that.

In the United States there has been a concerted campaign for as long as I can remember -- but even more concerted since
the Reagan Regime -- to get the People to abdicate their hold on The Powers That Be and just let some anonymous
corporate entity send us the bill after the fact. They keep trying to con the People into thinking they can starve the
beast, to limit government, when what they are really doing is feeding the beast of corporate control, weakening their
own power over the forces that govern their lives.

That is the road to perdition as far as responsible government goes. There is not much of anything one leader or one
administration can do unsupported if the People do not constantly demand a government of, by, and for the People.

Regards,

Jon

Jack Ring

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Dec 23, 2019, 11:37:22 AM12/23/19
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(Jon Awbrey wrote)
In a complex society, people making decisions and taking actions at places remote from you have the power to affect your life in significant ways.  Those people are your government, no matter what spheres of influence they inhabit, private or public.  The only way you get a choice in that governance is if there are paths of feedback that allow you to affect the life of those decision makers and action takers in significant ways.  That is what accountability, response-ability, and representative government are all about.
(JR). Better we should also use feedforward (voting) and feedback. 

(...) JA. In the United States there has been a concerted campaign for as long as I can remember -- but even more concerted since the Reagan Regime -- to get the People to abdicate their hold on The Powers That Be and just let some anonymous corporate entity send us the bill after the fact.  They keep trying to con the People into thinking they can starve the beast, to limit government, when what they are really doing is feeding the beast of corporate control, weakening their own power over the forces that govern their lives.

(JR). short memory. Deconstructing a government of we, by and for the people
1) began in 1820 when Senators were elected by popular vote instead of by state legislators.
2) accelerated in 1860 with ‘public education’ brainwashing.
3) accelerated by the Woodrow Wilson cabal.
4) accelerated in the 1960’s with Critical Thinking (If it feels good then do it) in elementary schools.
5) Now vigorously pursued by one political party intent upon deconstructing the Constitution. They promote the Cloward-Piven strategy and use the Rules for Radicals tactics.

(JA) That is the road to perdition as far as responsible government goes.  There is not much of anything one leader or one administration can do unsupported if the People do not constantly demand a government of, by, and for the People.

(JR). So, let’s demand a representative republic.
Jack Ring


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