Open Source it

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Oct 6, 2011, 6:36:40 AM10/6/11
to Synekism


Oct 6, 2011, 9:07:43 AM10/6/11
to Synekism
We would more than like to but we also would like to be able to work
on this full time at some point. Now, at this time, I'm not sure how
making a living off Synekism and open sourcing this project can both
become a reality. If you do, please, let us know and we would gladly
open source it.

On Oct 6, 6:36 am, Quazardous <> wrote:
> ;p


Oct 6, 2011, 9:53:03 AM10/6/11
to Synekism

maybe some free-to-play-but-lots-of-goodies like league of legend :

- the core city engine code could be opensource and you can play and
test basic solo game play with a basic UI client.
- with premium licence you can have a better non opensource UI client
with graphical enhancement, special buildings and acces to online
community features like top towns ranking etc


Oct 6, 2011, 10:44:57 PM10/6/11
to Synekism
Those are all valid suggestions and are so noted. However, it is too
early to predict how the game will shape up by the time it is actually
a game so for now we wish to keep our options open.

But, to be honest, the real reason is sentimental in nature and
therefore not deeply rooted in reason.


Dec 10, 2011, 9:19:20 PM12/10/11
No, don't open-source it! Get paid for the hard work and hours you put into this.


Jan 3, 2012, 4:57:35 PM1/3/12
to Synekism
I agree these guys need to get paid in the end, don't open source it,
unless for some reason they have to walk away from it.


Jan 3, 2012, 10:58:26 PM1/3/12
to Synekism
As it stands now, we might "open source" it if we figure out a way to
make a living despite the disclosure (that is, able to work on it full
time without starving). That said, it will likely be a disclosure of
our source but we will not open it for public contributions, at least
initially. So you could fork but not amend the master branch.

Also, I don't quite feel comfortable with our code quality being
exposed at the moment. I don't want to be responsible for any heart
attacks. We're working on it...

Aug 2, 2012, 11:25:56 AM8/2/12
As much as I'd love to see the code for this I'd settle for just knowing the technologies you are using.

Would you be willing to share what platform you are using (Unity, XNA, OpenGL etc), and what basic math/trigonometric principals/formulas you are using to handle a grid-less system, curved roads, and dividing the lots up? I would even appreciate being pointed to some wikipedia articles that you used for reference.

And please don't worry about your code quality. No matter how bad you think it looks, the debugger will always help other make sense of it.

Keep up the great work!


Aug 2, 2012, 7:51:23 PM8/2/12
I'll put up a wiki page about our work environment next month during
the release.

But to quickly answer your direct questions:

1. No engine, just raw DirectX 9 and 10.
2. Almost all math in Synekism is just intersection formulas, with
some probabilities in the Simulator code. Nothing too interesting yet.

So, I'll post more on the wiki but otherwise, feel free to ask any specifics.


Sep 3, 2012, 6:25:17 PM9/3/12
Well, I'm guessing many fans would like to help out on the game, so I'm in favor of open sourcing it. Now, about making a profit. You guys could do it this way: let the users help write the game only as long as it is in alpha/beta, under the condition that they know that they will have to purchase it once the game is released. In return, give those who helped out a code a 25% off or something. 
Now, I confused myself writing this, so do point out any flaws in this method.

Sep 3, 2012, 6:45:52 PM9/3/12
Um. I should go into a little more detail. As an example, look at the Spout project. They're
building an open-source voxel engine, and are making an open source Minecraft implementation.
That's where the free goodies end. They are planning to profit off of it once the main engine
is done by licensing it. They receive numerous additions by users, and implement most of
them. They are far from done, but many team members also have day jobs, like you guys.
The model could work for the Synekism team. Us fans might request to add in some code
that implements curved roads. You guys test it, and if it works, you accept it. Boom. Curved
roads, at no  expense to you guys. You can deny features you don't want, so the game doesn't
lose focus, and the game progresses somewhat faster. And to the people who helped out, 25%  off the final game.


Sep 4, 2012, 8:30:05 AM9/4/12
Open sourcing certainly has it's merits. Especially now that there is
no more Synekism "team", just me, more coders would certainly
accelerate the work.

That said, I've come to realize and accept that Synekism is no longer
some business idea or cool project, but rather, a very close part of
me. I've grown personally attached to Synekism and would be impossible
for me to publicly share it (the code I mean).

I will always listen to and incorporate player input. I don't want to
imply that since it is just my personal project I shall be its
dictator. Making something not only valued by myself is a much greater
motivational source than the alternative. However, I do wish to be the
dictator of my code. I have to code in a team environment at my day
job and that's fine. But when I get home and want to "relax" with some
Synekism coding I want to do it my way, at my pace, with my bracket
styles and white space preferences.

I'll close with an analogy to city building in games. There's a reason
why people are not found of complex and rich city simulators being
multiplayer. As many mentioned, the cities you build are personal and
represent your unique style. Last thing you want is to share that
style with someone else, even if it is your best friend.

To be blunt, I will not open source Synekism.

Jarren Butterworth

Sep 4, 2012, 10:04:59 PM9/4/12
I'm totally fine if you go all Toady-One with this project, so long as you actually produce like that crazy man!


Sep 5, 2012, 10:12:28 AM9/5/12
You could keep the lead for the main software architecture and ask help on sub routines.
it will have the benefit to structure even more your code with layered code.

Le jeudi 6 octobre 2011 12:36:40 UTC+2, Quazardous a écrit :


Sep 5, 2012, 8:02:08 PM9/5/12
Ya, I might consider your approach. But it would have to wait until
there is something resembling an architecture. :)


Sep 6, 2012, 3:32:20 AM9/6/12
It s what community is for : help you doing the stuff you can't or want do alone ;p

You could open a software architecture page in the wiki or in the forum and so we could discuss on how the code could be structured to reach different goals..

- be open source
- allow you to keep the lead
- allow team dev (git repo, collab soft, bug tracking, etc)
- allow multi platform / OS / rendering and dev (as most science geeks like linux ;p)
- allow multi player gameplay synchron or asynchron
- allow online massive approach
- allow game plugins (transport, traffic, environmental elements like trees growth or water resource, etc)
- how do money !

leading is not keeping your ideas, it s more sharing them :p


Sep 6, 2012, 8:48:27 AM9/6/12
I appreciate your encouragement to share. Unfortunately, my mind is
more or less made up at the moment.

Besides the personal aspect I have for the project, leading takes a
lot of work itself. I need to write up legal agreements (not leaving
that to chance and goodwill), set up repository access rights, monitor
commits, and make sure documentation is up to date and useful.

I also can't rely on people volunteering their work to be dependable
and responsible. It has nothing to do with their caliber or devotion.
It's just that pretty much everything else in their lives will take
priority over a volunteered responsibility. So I would have to take
the time to understand all contributed code so when there's 8 hours to
release and a bug is discovered I don't have to hopelessly try to
contact the person responsible for the related code and I can fix it
myself on the spot.

All of this takes significant time away from just pure programming.
Since this project is being kept alive almost entirely by my love for
programming, going back to a leadership role is not favorable for me
at the moment.

To close, this thread is one of the popular ones on this forum so I
can tell the level of interest in contributing is well above none. I
can also appreciate that sharing could lead to permanent quality team
members and much accelerated progress. That said, I'm not prepared at
this time to deal with the logistics of sharing.

I'm a slave to reason so if you give me a compelling enough setup for
sharing I will certainly reconsider.

Sep 6, 2012, 4:56:53 PM9/6/12
Seeing your quite personal relationship with this project, I find it difficult to convince you to change your mind. But..
We still want to see the game become the best it can be. That may not mean contributing code. You're right, it is a hassle more than an annoyance. But there is still one thing you can do to help us help you. 
Just show us the code. Nothing more.
You have written about how the program is just about falling apart. It's understandable that you don't want us to modify it. But we can still help, just by identifying what doesn't work too well. We'll tell you (shame about that, btw), and you might choose to fix it. 
It's not open sourcing it. It's opening it up for criticism before it's too late for any real detractors to be brought up. And it will likely improve the end user experience, whilst keeping the project your own.
It's an alternative, or at least a better one given your emotional state regarding Synekism.


Sep 6, 2012, 6:51:22 PM9/6/12
That falls into the "legal and contracts" part of what he was saying. He doesn't want the source getting out there to be used by others in their competing products. Which is very understandable. An NDA (non disclosure agreement) would protect him from this. 

Jarren Butterworth

Sep 7, 2012, 2:19:43 AM9/7/12
Sometimes a dedicated and passionate one man show can produce some very interesting games, look at Dwarf Fortress and the insane dedication "toady one" has shown there.  Notch made minecraft initially mostly by him self.  So long and he keeps the passion and energy, and keeps developing his skills, we could be in for a treat!

Or it could fizzle out :(  But if it's going to fizzle out it would fizzle out team or not.

So keep plugging at it, and if you need help just reach out.


Sep 7, 2012, 4:25:52 AM9/7/12

if sharing the code of your baby is too much, let's start with sharing some ideas on your wiki ! let's talk about roadmap and features... let us show you our support with some structured discussion about this wonderful project :p

ps : about sharing code, you could keep the heart of the engine non open source (with some dll or lib) but use community for the (boring) UI coding task ;p so some may implement different UI on different OS in example.


Sep 7, 2012, 7:59:36 AM9/7/12
Yes, I will definitely look at separating the main executable a bit
into libraries and open source some of them. I have no problem with
that. In addition, I very much intend to open the game up for
scripting. Probably lua. The UI would be the first to take advantage
of this as well as all the game's constants.

So, yes, I may love my core code a bit too much. I mean, I'm perfectly
capable of spending an hour only adjusting white space. Insanity comes
in many forms. However, I do not mean to imply that I want to control
every aspect of the game myself, especially when it comes to the game
design part of the "game".

I'll try to keep the wiki more up to date with my thoughts so I can be
called on bad decisions before I spend 4 months implementing them.

And thank you for putting up with my stubbornness, of which I'm well
aware of. I know the dangers of going solo on a project for too long
and would hope to avoid them.
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