Windows 8

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Synekism

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Nov 1, 2012, 7:28:04 AM11/1/12
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This is a feeler for a decision I thought was made until people convinced me to be more realistic. 

Essentially, I am deeply concerned about the direction Microsoft has taken with the release of Windows 8. Touch-screen devices wont penetrate much into my life for a long time as I'm fairly happy with the much more efficient but uncool keyboard and mouse. It follows that the classic desktop interface is my home, both personally and professionally. I literally rely on it for my bread.

Now, while I have nothing against Microsoft trying their hand at the touch world, I do take it very personally when the desktop is attacked and gutted in the way Windows 8 did it. I'm not the only one that wonders how Microsoft has confused productivity with staleness to this extent.

I'm bringing this up because, like I said, I take this very seriously - to the point where I am considering ACTIVELY not supporting Synekism on Windows 8. This literally means I will spend development time to make sure Synekism does not run on Windows 8. Extreme? Probably, which is why I'm putting up this feeler. What are your thoughts on the matter? Am I as crazy as the oracle predicted?

Klaus-Peter

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Nov 1, 2012, 11:18:34 AM11/1/12
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I feel very much the same about the direction Microsoft is heading and I would love to see Windows 8 fail. But I don't think that this is going to happen...
While Windows 7 probably stays around for some time like XP did, new PCs will ship with Windows 8. You just can't expect everybody with a new PC to buy Windows 7 or Vista (if it's still available...).
In my opinion your time would be better invested in making sure that Synekism runs on different operating systems like linux (maybe with the help of Wine).

With some easy tutorials on how to set the whole thing up, you could give your users an acceptable alternative to Windows 8.
And you're supporting a good cause (imho)

I know that some top games like Guildwars 2 are playable with Wine (see http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_on_Wine) though it's not activly supported. But it's something that the developers considered very early in development. So I'm not sure if this is an option for your game.
If you can make this happen, I think not supporting Window 8 does not sound that cracy anymore.
Maybe do thin only while still in development with the option to support Windows 8 when you want to sell the finished game ;)

Jarren Butterworth

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Nov 1, 2012, 7:22:59 PM11/1/12
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I'm sure Microsoft will see the error of their ways when some vapour-ware indie city-building game they've never heard of is purposefully not comparable with their OS.  This is extremely silly, don't be so silly.  It will accomplish nothing but make people think you're very weird and alienate anyone on windows 8.

Markalian

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Nov 1, 2012, 9:20:38 PM11/1/12
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This'll be a washed out post because I'm too tired to think.

Well, given that Windows 7 is no longer available, that's a lost cause.
I too hate W8, but it will be everywhere fairly soon, as mentioned by Peter.
In terms of economics, you want your product to reach as large an
audience as possible. W8 support is necessary.

But the fact that most W7 apps still work on W8 benefits you. What
might be a better course of action is to make sure the game will only
ever run in desktop mode, make the insignificant changes that W8
requires, then dump support for the OS. Or something. My head hurts.

Synekism

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Nov 1, 2012, 11:03:49 PM11/1/12
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Good stuff. I'll take one at a time.

Klaus-Peter:
Linux support will come regardless of what I decide regarding Windows
8. I should also clarify that it would not take very much work to make
Synekism not run on Windows 8. The reason I'm inclined to spend my
time on this is because if I end up not officially supporting Windows
8 (therefore not testing) I don't want people to try the game and have
it crash (more than usual) - because most people won't read the
readme.

Jarren:
I believe I should clarify my motives a bit more. You see, making a
statement and encouraging change are not really part of my motive,
even if the idle hope is there. I know my place. My main itch is this
need of embracing anything that the world shoves down your throat, as
if it was created by gods instead of fellow humans. It would be far
more silly, in my opinion, to support something which I wholly
disapprove of than to consciously limit my user base.

Plus, I have no problem making people think I'm weird. Plus more, I
would not be by myself:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/notch-refuses-to-certify-minecraft-for-windows-8-6397371

Markalian:
Keep in mind that I'm not aiming for large profits or handsome
acquisition offers here. I have some ideas, some pet-peeves, some
passionate dislikes, and some drive to create. That's it.
Unfortunately, most marketing and audience-expanding strategies out
there go beyond my tolerances. Things like social media integration,
always-online-ness, and over-simplification. Supporting a platform
that scares me would be another example.

Generally:
I'm mostly realistic. I would certainly not entertain such an idea at
my day job, at a real company. I'm trying to be open about it but this
does bug me - a lot.
Message has been deleted

Kohn

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Nov 3, 2012, 4:42:40 AM11/3/12
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How soon do you plan to have a finished product? I have been folllwing this project for a while now and I know that it wont be finished during the next year, possibly not the year after either if progressiva doesnt speed up. IF Microsoft keeps up their pace a new OS will hit the market every few years. I know that you claim not to be interested in a large player base, but ppl will migrate to a new OS sooner or later. I am not saying make synekism touch screen based, im just saying dont stick in the past. Myself im most likely to upgrade to win 8. And even though i really like this game and all the what may come in the future, i wont sit on win 7 or linux (God forbid) to play just One game. I guess others feel like me as well, and I do know from projects of my own that When the userbase is dwindeling, so is the flow of ideas and constructive criticism, and in the long run, the own interest of developing the product (unless you actually are doing it all for yourself but I really doubt that since you share the game in a unfinished state). Actually, Im not begging you to go win 8. Im just asking you to think abit forward, think what happens in the long rund and how it affects you and your product and base your desicion on this, rather than only (as it looks on your post) a technical feature in win 8.

Synekism

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Nov 3, 2012, 1:25:51 PM11/3/12
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One of the reasons this Windows 8 thing bugs me so much is that I
usually have a need to be as up to date on software as possible. I
rarely stick to older versions even when newer versions irk me. I went
to Vista as soon as it came out and just struggled through it. I guess
this is the first time an upgrade has crossed my tolerances.

But I agree that an outright ban on a newer version of Windows will
keep Synekism behind in a way. What I might do, since I still need to
vent this somehow, is to give a warning when you install Synekism on
Windows 8 that you're outside what I officially support but let you
continue installing and playing the game without issue. And since what
works on Windows 7 should work on 8 there shouldn't be any major
problems.

Still thinking this through...

Quazardous

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Nov 4, 2012, 2:53:54 AM11/4/12
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Go for ubuntu. Canonical did somme mistake but users have lot more power :) and there are so many other good distros ...

Synekism

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Nov 4, 2012, 12:40:49 PM11/4/12
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As I said, Linux support will come regardless of this decision. I will
never "drop" support for the Windows ecosystem in favour of Linux. I
will support both.

My conundrum is to what extent I should support Windows 8 given my
personal and professional objections towards it.

Also, as you mentioned, Ubuntu is not without it's own flaws similar
to Windows 8's. There's a reason why typing "Ubuntu Unity" in Google
the first suggestion is "Ubuntu Unity Sucks". They did exactly what
Microsoft did - they consumerised and touch-enabled the OS and made it
less efficient for power tasks. Sure, I've customized it back to
something I can use but given that I didn't have to do that for
previous Ubuntu versions I see this as a step backwards. Still, not
nearly as extreme as Windows 8.

Quazardous

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Nov 5, 2012, 4:11:58 AM11/5/12
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I don't say linux OR Windows for game dev but choosing an OS agnostic framework is GOOD (SDL, STL, Orgre3D, etc), :


and yes unity was one of those mistake but canonical has made a very good work now.

but canonical had no choice but content users because the day they release the first unity I ve tried it and immediately switch to linux mint + gnome shell :p and I was not alone. Canonical had a gun in the head...

It's why Linux IS better than windows, if your not ok with something you can often use something else... and free !

Synekism

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Dec 1, 2012, 3:39:43 PM12/1/12
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I've decided to have partial support for Windows 8. What this means is that I won't restrict the installation of Synekism on Windows 8 in any way but I will only provide support for the most fatal of issues (game doesn't run at all).

Windows 7 will still be the official Windows version recommended for Synekism as my development environment and tool set will stay on Windows 7.

To summarize, I'm conflicted on Windows 8 support because Windows 8 perfectly represents the confusion between staleness and efficiency. I find this scary and could not follow this trend silently.

kyla...@gmail.com

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Dec 2, 2012, 10:13:35 AM12/2/12
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I was really unsure about Windows 8 at first, but then I tried it.
And it's now my operating system since two weeks.
It was a bit hard to change some of my habits at first (no Start button on the desktop) but once that was done (1 day) I found the environment really nice and it did not change my productivity (I was on Windows 7). I'm not a fan of Windows neither of Microsoft and I respect the Linux community much more, but I must admit that my thoughts about Windows 8 were really not funded.

Anyway I hope you will try not to screw Windows 8 for there are users who like it as well as Synekism, but I'm glad you decided to at least have this "partial support".

Markalian

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Dec 3, 2012, 9:16:02 PM12/3/12
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Hey, great. Not going to be using Win 8 ever, maybe Win 9, but great.

Though the desktop has seen close to no changes in how it works, and people do have compatibility mode...

Less hassle for you.

powerp...@gmail.com

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Dec 6, 2012, 3:11:46 PM12/6/12
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Don't forget Mac OS X either!

Synekism

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Dec 6, 2012, 3:25:00 PM12/6/12
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I won't forget but Mac support won't come for a long time. It's a lot of work, especially since I'm an Apple newb. There needs to be something worth porting first and foremost. I don't want to spend more time porting to and supporting multiple platforms than working on the game itself.
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