Community input on chat

[Aaron Meurer]

Now that Google Summer of Code is under way, I'd like to get the
community's opinion again on using Gitter
(https://gitter.im/sympy/sympy).

Last time, some people were concerned about the OAuth scope requested
by Gitter. This is explained at
https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200176672-Authenticating-with-GitHub.

I personally think Gitter is great. It's free, persistant (you don't
have to be online to see messages), and the developers are friendly.
It also has cool features that integrate with GitHub.

Previously we have used IRC, and our channel is still active. But the
channel is not very active. You can see from the logs
(http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/sympy) that quite a few
people come to the channel with questions, but no one is there to
answer them. With Gitter, someone could answer the question later on.

Anyway, I'd like to know if the community supports making Gitter the
"official" chat room of SymPy (and if no, do you have any better
alternatives?). If so, then I will add links to the home page and the
GSoC info page, and also to the /topic of #sympy.

If we do this, I'd appreciate it if people could idle in the channel,
and provide support to people, especially the prospective GSoC
students. If you use Mac OS X, you can get their Mac app
(https://gitter.im/apps), and go to the Notification settings in
System Preferences and change the notifications for Gitter to alert
instead of badge, so that they stay on your screen. There is also a
menubar icon that badges.

Getting help in IRC (mostly from Ondrej) made a huge difference for me
when I started with SymPy, especially when it came to git issues
(which everyone has). So I think it's really important to provide that
to our students.

Aaron Meurer

[Tim Lahey]

+1 to Gitter.

It's unfortunate that GitHub doesn't have support for more restricted
scopes, but since I dropped my private repos (after I finished my
thesis), I'm fine with Gitter. I like that it's persistent. It makes it
more likely that people could get help, assuming that people are okay
with Gitter's permissions.

Thanks,

Tim.

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[Matthew Rocklin]

I am exactly in Tim's situation.  My situation has changed so that I no longer care about private repositories.

Going through the gitter login process I did not have to pass any page with which I was uncomfortable.  This may be different now that I'm not the free rather than micro plan however.

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[Harsh Gupta]

+1 for gitter.

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Harsh

[Joachim Durchholz]

Am 25.02.2014 02:21, schrieb Aaron Meurer:
> Now that Google Summer of Code is under way, I'd like to get the
> community's opinion again on using Gitter
> (https://gitter.im/sympy/sympy).
>
> Last time, some people were concerned about the OAuth scope requested
> by Gitter. This is explained at
> https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200176672-Authenticating-with-GitHub.

If that's still relevant, then I still won't use it.

First off, I can't judge their trustworthiness.
Second, if they really cared about trust issues, they'd offer a way to
access the chat without the Github integration - or at least without
those features that require write access.

I'm not going to sacrifice one more bit of privacy for my convenience.
I can still do copy&paste after all...

> Anyway, I'd like to know if the community supports making Gitter the
> "official" chat room of SymPy (and if no, do you have any better
> alternatives?).

Since I'm not an IRC guy anyway, this is just my 2 cents, FWIW.

Regards,
Jo

[Ondřej Čertík]

+1 to gitter.

I am not on IRC anymore, since it's really inconvenient, given that I
frequently switch several computers. Gitter works perfectly for me. I
really wished they fixed account permission issue together with
github.
I decided to trust them for now.

Ondrej

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sympy/CADN8iuowtYnVrK3OKC2_Cd67%2BN7S7TVt_X-ofy6Z14a0Eb%2BJDw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Vinzent Steinberg]

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 5:21:52 PM UTC-5, Ondřej Čertík wrote:

+1 to gitter.

I am not on IRC anymore, since it's really inconvenient, given that I
frequently switch several computers. Gitter works perfectly for me. I
really wished they fixed account permission issue together with
github.
I decided to trust them for now.

Some people run http-based IRC clients on their server, so they can log-in anywhere.

Vinzent

[Aaron Meurer]

An update on this. Gitter now only asks for read-only access to your
public repos, and basic information like what orgs you belong to and
what your email is. No more write access.
http://blog.gitter.im/the-write-stuff-part-two/

Also, for those of you who like IRC, there is an IRC interface
https://irc.gitter.im/.

Aaron Meurer

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[Joachim Durchholz]

Am 26.02.2014 23:21, schrieb Ondřej Čertík:
> +1 to gitter.
>
> I am not on IRC anymore, since it's really inconvenient, given that I
> frequently switch several computers. Gitter works perfectly for me. I
> really wished they fixed account permission issue together with
> github.
> I decided to trust them for now.

Hm. Well. You trust in two things:

1) Their ability to keep intruders out.

2) Their moral integrity.

The latter is a real problem.
I have led business entities and know how slippery that slope is;
ultimately, any business entity will submit to fishy practices, however
hard they try to avoid that.
And even if you think you can trust them - please be aware that even if
your judgement were sound in 95% of all cases, you won't know whether
Gitter is the one in twenty cases where your trust was misplaced.

So... assume the worst they could do, and assume that sooner or later,
it will happen.
My worst-case assumption wouldn't be that they change the sources (that
would be instantly visible), but that they access confidential data.
I.e. don't use a Github account that has seen confidential data with
Gitter, and things should be fine.

[Joachim Durchholz]

Am 09.03.2014 21:05, schrieb Aaron Meurer:
> An update on this. Gitter now only asks for read-only access to your
> public repos, and basic information like what orgs you belong to and
> what your email is. No more write access.

Now that's great :-)))

[Shipra Banga]

+1 for gitter.