SciPy 2023 CFP

[Aaron Meurer]

The CFP for SciPy 2023 is open
https://www.scipy2023.scipy.org/present. The deadline to submit is
February 22.

Is anyone interested in giving a talk and/or tutorial about SymPy? I
would be interested in proposing a tutorial on SymPy, but only if
others are interested in co-presenting. We have given tutorials about
SymPy at SciPy in the past and they have been generally well received,
so I think it would have a reasonable chance of being accepted.

If you would be interested in submitting a proposal but are unsure if
you would be able to afford attendance, please email me and we can
discuss financial aid options (note this offer only applies to people
who are active SymPy contributors).

Aaron Meurer

[S.Y. Lee]

I would want to give a try again, I tried to join last conference, but unluckily didn't went well because of COVID.
But we use some effort modernizing the tutorial though.

[Aaron Meurer]

That's great to hear. I have a copy of our submission in 2020, which
was originally accepted, so that should be a good place to start. For
the submission, we just need a basic outline, but we should have a
plan in mind with the content we will need to create.

Aaron Meurer

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[Aaron Meurer]

Relatedly, I've been looking at
https://jupyterlite-sphinx.readthedocs.io/, which lets you embed
notebooks into Sphinx documentation which can be executed in the
browser. (except I haven't been able to get it working yet. If anyone
has any experience with jupyterlite-sphinx please reach out!)

I think that would be a great choice for the tutorial. We already have
used notebooks in the past, because they are great for interactive
exercises, but this would be much simpler than trying to use mybinder
or getting everyone to install everything themselves.

The other advantage of it is that if we can get it working, we can
adapt it and put the tutorial materials in the actual SymPy
documentation. I think it would be great to have some interactivity
and exercises in the tutorials section of the docs. One of the
differences between tutorials and user guides is that tutorials are
supposed to provide a directed learning experience (see
https://diataxis.fr/tutorials-how-to/). I think having exercises as
part of a tutorial, so that it looks more like a course, would help to
make this distinction clearer. Right now a lot of what is in our
"tutorial" is actually more along the lines of a user guide.

Aaron Meurer

[S.Y. Lee]

I think that you need to set up server manually from

python -m http.server -d doc/_build/html

There are options to use the directive or use the fullscreen

The problem I find is how the sympy version gets picked up.
Even though I haven't installed anything on root, jupyterlite picks up sympy 3.11.1 with python 3.10.2
so we may need to figure out how to make it pick up the dev build, if this can be integrated to the sympy documentation.

[Aaron Meurer]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 4:49 AM S.Y. Lee <syle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think that you need to set up server manually from
>
> python -m http.server -d doc/_build/html

Ah, I didn't realize that it doesn't work without a web server. make
livehtml also starts a server, but it also auto-refreshes whenever it
detects a change, which might not be desired in this case. We can add
'make server' which just starts a web server without live reloading.

>
> There are options to use the directive or use the fullscreen
>
> The problem I find is how the sympy version gets picked up.
> Even though I haven't installed anything on root, jupyterlite picks up sympy 3.11.1 with python 3.10.2
> so we may need to figure out how to make it pick up the dev build, if this can be integrated to the sympy documentation.

That only matters for the dev version of the docs. For the "latest"
version of the docs it will install the latest version of SymPy (there
might be a small lag when we do a release because I think micropip
uses a separate repo from pypi, but I doubt it will be a big issue).
It might be possible using micropip to install from the git master
(see https://jupyterlite-sphinx.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configuration.html#jupyterlite-config
and https://jupyterlite.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howto/python/packages.html),
and similarly for PR preview builds. That wouldn't do the right thing
for local development builds. I don't know if there is a way to make
it do what you would expect in that case. I asked about it here
https://github.com/jupyterlite/jupyterlite-sphinx/issues/81.

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[S.Y. Lee]

I have attempted to give a try of 
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/pull/24471
https://output.circle-artifacts.com/output/job/d67d6193-7579-47ac-9381-3bfccfba931e/artifacts/0/doc/_build/html/lite/lab/index.html
But it looks like there can be permission issues or it prevents the execution of scripts or such that it doesn't work
https://circleci.com/docs/build-artifacts/#safe-and-unsafe-content-types
I'm not sure that's the issue that can be gone once deployed in docs.sympy.org,
but I would like to hear if it is the direction we should go.

[S.Y. Lee]

There were some issues in the sympy live I discovered while using jupyterlive
https://github.com/sympy/live/issues/14
https://github.com/sympy/live/issues/16
to share the context, the jupyterlive may be quite experimental
and we may need to inspect if it works across most of the mainstream browsers.
We may need some fallback tutorials or google colab for tutorial if we see something is broken

[Aaron Meurer]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 10:01 AM S.Y. Lee <syle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There were some issues in the sympy live I discovered while using jupyterlive
> https://github.com/sympy/live/issues/14
> https://github.com/sympy/live/issues/16
> to share the context, the jupyterlive may be quite experimental
> and we may need to inspect if it works across most of the mainstream browsers.
> We may need some fallback tutorials or google colab for tutorial if we see something is broken

Yes, we will need a fallback or two. The tutorial materials will also
be sent to the attendees so they can run things locally. The
worst-case scenario is that the internet doesn't work on the day of
the session so any online option including jupyterlite would be
unavailable.

I agree that it does feel like it's still not quite mature, especially
the Sphinx extension, which does worry me a little for including it in
the docs. The SciPy tutorial can be a good testbed to see if it's
functional enough to consider or if we should wait for things to
mature a bit.

Aaron Meurer

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[Aaron Meurer]

Given the people who have shown interest, I think we should apply for
a tutorial. I've started a new repository where we can collaborate at
https://github.com/sympy/scipy-2023-tutorial/issues/1. If anyone else
is interested who hasn't reached out to me yet, please comment there.

We need to write the proposal and submit it by Feb. 22. We should be
able to mostly reuse our proposal from 2020.

Aaron Meurer

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 5:11 PM Aaron Meurer <asme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>