A game puzzle with which I am stuck.

[shykitten55]

(Sorry folks, but I am at a loss where else to ask...)

Yeah, ok, I could find a "walk through" on youtube, but that doesn't really seem the right thing to do.   I want to ... learn.   But am stuck.

Scenario:

I am at the middle of a machine.

This has s fence and I can only "exit" to the next disc at a specific position.

I have 4 "wheels" that move things.  I'll get to them shortly.

Around this area are 4 "discs" which can turn.

There is a "fence" on the outside of each of these discs that control where I can move from one "disc" to the next one going outwards.

To further complicate the problem there are holes (missing parts) in these discs so I can't just walk all the way around.

After those 4 discs there is an outer area which also has fixed points where I can exit.

The 4 "wheels" don't simply control the 4 individual "discs".  (Wouldn't be that easy)

Wheel 1 turns disc 1 and 2.

Wheel 2 turns disc 2 and 3

Wheel 3 turns disc 3 and 4

Wheel 4 turns disc 4 and 1.

They can be turned either way:  CW, CCW.   But both turn together.

I get it that if I need to have "disc 1" CCW one position (and not touch 2) I would use the wheel that turns 4 and 1 and move them both CCW 1 position.

But that all falls over if/when disc 4 is already in the correct position.

I would send pictures, but they are on another computer and just now I don't have access to it.

I shall try to get some soon, but I can only get pictures from "my perspective" as in:  I can't look down from above or do any cheats like that.   (Which may also not be helping me understand it)    And the views have quaint obstructions to them at points which also further complicates it for me.

Sorry.   But if anyone likes this kind of thing, I would appreciate the help.

Thanks.

[shykitten55]

Ok, sorry.    "Guilt" made me turn on the other machine and get a screen shot.

Maybe a bit confusing, but here is the breakdown:

Yellow show you "discs".

Green show where you can move between "discs".

Red shows you where you can't walk.

Blue shows you where I can walk now - and the falling where there isn't anywhere else to go.

Orange shows the wheels that turn the discs.

I have done 3 of the 4.  (There may be a fifth, but that's my problem)

So given I have done 3 of them already, I am really confused why I can't get the fourth.

[John Tocher]

I would be tempted to analyze, or perhaps even brute force the solution in software.  I'd choose python, but that's a personal preference.

I would model each ring as a integers, with with each bit (1 or 0) corresponding to the platform at that location.

Then using the rules of the game I'd look at the whether or not I could step from the current ring to the next outer ring by logical AND from where I am now to the next ring, rinse and repeat.

Rotating the rings would be either a modified bit shift or a list rotation, depending on how you like to code things.

It looks like the gateways between each concentric ring might by fixed, and marked with the lamps, but I can't be sure.

Depending on those 'gates' I might be tempted to insert those as extra rings to make the modelling easier.

I won't go into a great deal of detail here, as I'm not sure if this approach is even remotely interesting to you! If you like the idea, I'd be happy to put something together for further messing with.

If the entry and exit gates are fixed, where you've drawn your arrows, then the strategy would probably be to start with valid positions of wheel 4, and then just change 2 and 3, ignoring 1 as you don't want to move ring 1 again anyway.

This is my very quick beginning of how I'd define each ring layer:

John

[shykitten55]

The "gates" are attached to the ring on its outer side.

So to the right where you see the first two lamps:  they are fixed to the centre where I am standing.

I can then move to "squares" left and move to the next ring.

But if I move ring 1 the "gate" to the second ring would move with the ring I just moved.

(Also) But....  If I move ring 1 (closest one to me) CCW, I can't get onto it as there is a `0` there now.

Again:  I am puzzled by this as I did the first three ok.  I didn't "piss them in" but I nutted them out.   Brute force?  Maybe.

But they didn't entail hours of trying.  Somehow I worked them out.

But I am stuck with how to handle the ring's inter-relationships with one another.

I need to know/resolve how I can get 3 rings in the right place and see what needs to be done on the fourth - be it which ever one it is at the time,

and know how to move the other 3 so they all "line up".

I have not problem/s with modelling them.  More their interaction with one another, or pairing.

Recap:

One of the discs controls rings 1 and 2.

Another disc controls rings 2 and 3

Then, rings 3 and 4

and lastly 4 and 1.

I think there are 16 steps/sections per ring.

So there are.... 16^4 possibilities.   (or close to)   That's a lot to brute force.   ;)

[John Tocher]

Thank you, I think I have a better understanding now.

I threw together a very rough first attempt at describing it.  My code is here:

https://github.com/JohnTocher/misc_puzzles/blob/main/rotating_annular_platform_puzzle.py

Note that I haven't attempted to capture the actual picture you provided accurately, this is more to prove that the basic algorithm will work, and describes what I think it does.

You're right that 16^4 possibilities is a lot, but by the looks of it, there are actually far fewer real solutions we will have to test, as many positions will never be tested.

I can think of a couple of strategies, but before I tackle them, have a look and see if I've understood correctly, and this is headed the way you thought it might!

The code is python 3.6+ and doesn't require any extra libraries or configuration.

John

[shykitten55]

Thanks.

I hope I have python 3.6 installed.   I think I will, but can't be 100% sure just now.

The other things that the code will have to know is where the "gates" are between the discs.

The "floor/no floor" is easy enough as you said.  I make the value 0 or 1.

Just "spit balling"....  Maybe each position on the disc needs 3 states:   0 - no floor, can't use.  1 - floor, but no access to next up level disc. 2 - floor and access to next up level disc.

That may help the formula work better.   That way you follow the 1's or 2's.

I'll get back to you soon.  Got to go out and do some shopping.   :(

[shykitten55]

Ok, I tried it.

Though not the actual mapping, I tried what you gave me with a bit of editing to a couple of "rings".

This is what I showed me.

I'm not sure I understand what is happening.

Initial layout:
5 : ....T...........
4 : .XX...^XXXX.X...
3 : ....X...XX^.....
2 : ..^X....XXX.....
1 : ....XX^XX.......
0 : ........B.......
Rotating ring 1 CW
Rotating ring 2 CW
After move #1 ((1, 'CW')):
5 : ....T...........
4 : .XX...^XXXX.X...
3 : ....X...XX^.....
2 : ...^X....XXX....
1 : .....XX^XX......
0 : ........B.......
Rotating ring 2 CCW
Rotating ring 3 CCW
After move #2 ([2, 'CCW']):
5 : ....T...........
4 : .XX...^XXXX.X...
3 : ...X...XX^......
2 : ..^X....XXX.....
1 : .....XX^XX......
0 : ........B.......
Rotating ring 3 CW
Rotating ring 4 CW
After move #3 ((3, 'CW')):
5 : ....T...........
4 : ..XX...^XXXX.X..
3 : ....X...XX^.....
2 : ..^X....XXX.....
1 : .....XX^XX......
0 : ........B.......

That isn't a solution.

Am I missing something?   (I am good at missing things a lot of the time)

Thanks though.

[John Tocher]

I'm glad you got it working,

You're correct in that it's not a solution for your problem, this just gets the mechanics in place.

The X's are the squares that can be walked on.

The ^ is also one you can walk on, but also all one of the "gates" that moves with the ring and allows stepping out onto the next ring.

B is the beginning, T the target (escape) square.

I hope this provides a reasonable description for the actual problem.

If you could provide the starting layout to match the actual game puzzle I believe we'd be in with a chance. at illustrating a practical algorithm.

John

[shykitten55]

Ok, I loaded the game and got a big piece of paper.

Leaving things where they are/were I mapped things as I see them.   I though there were only maybe 8 or 16 (at most) sections.

Na, 24.

So I made a spreadsheet.  Sorry, I hope that's ok.

0 - hole in the floor.

1 - can walk on it.

2 - can move to next ring.

There were a couple of 0's that were also allowing progression outward.

They weren't included as they can't be used anyway.

I'm guessing they are there just because there is some randomness to the layout.