Surface mount soldering day at the space?

[Max Nippard]

Surface mount soldering for fun and... um... more fun.

Would people be interested in learning SMD soldering (or regular soldering) at the space with kits like these?

It's more fun than just practicing on old hard drive boards!

We could cover both hand soldering and using the oven.

http://www.jenrathbun.com/Electronics/?page_id=193

http://youtu.be/8zwdT4FWd98

http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_Grid_Red_SMT_p/mkwl07.htm

http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_POV_Red_SMT_p/mkwl06.htm

http://littlebirdelectronics.com/products/solder-time-ii-watch-kit

[Luke Emrose]

I would love to do that.
It's something I've always wanted to try.

Can't make it this weekend but soon for sure.

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[Nanik]

Hi Max,

I'm interested to join the SMD soldering, do you have any idea whether it will be done on weekend or weekday ? 

[Max Nippard]

We can do both weekend and weekdays.

Also if anyone knows of other kits or quick projects to make post them here.

--

[Madox]

What about those SMD LED name badges?  Were they Kean's creation or were they 'the spaces'?

[Jason Lewis]

I'm interested too. Weeknight is best for me.

Thanks

Jason

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-- 
Jason Lewis
http://emacstragic.net

[Max Nippard]

On 15 Mar 2013 22:32, "Madox" <mado...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What about those SMD LED name badges?  Were they Kean's creation or were they 'the spaces'?
>
>

Yeah Kean, what about them?
Do you have any PCB's left?
I could get some made and the parts together.

> On Friday, March 15, 2013 10:12:04 PM UTC+11, Max wrote:
>>
>> We can do both weekend and weekdays.
>>
>> Also if anyone knows of other kits or quick projects to make post them here.
>>
>> On 15 Mar 2013 22:06, "Nanik" <nani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Max,
>>>
>>> I'm interested to join the SMD soldering, do you have any idea whether it will be done on weekend or weekday ? 
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:15:12 PM UTC+11, Max wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Surface mount soldering for fun and... um... more fun.
>>>>
>>>> Would people be interested in learning SMD soldering (or regular soldering) at the space with kits like these?
>>>> It's more fun than just practicing on old hard drive boards!
>>>>
>>>> We could cover both hand soldering and using the oven.
>>>>

>>>> http://www.jenrathbun.com/Electronics/?page_id=193
>>>> http://youtu.be/8zwdT4FWd98
>>>>
>>>> http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_Grid_Red_SMT_p/mkwl07.htm
>>>>
>>>> http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_POV_Red_SMT_p/mkwl06.htm

[Kean Maizels]

Yep, I had 20 of them made up about 6 months ago, but haven’t yet had a chance to try them out.

I had them done with a beautiful black solder mask, and some improvements over the original design.

See photo attached.

 

Still uses a PIC processor, and could do with some improvements to the firmware.

 

I want to keep some PCBs for myself, but 15 are available for RnD members.

I may be able to dig up enough parts as well – at least for the first 5.

 

If successful, I’m happy to organise more PCBs/parts – or someone might want to do an AVR version.

 

Kean

[Max Nippard]

Great. I was going to ask if you had a two layer design. I could only find version 1 on the wiki.

Also, I have ordered a couple of the blinky POV kits to try out. They should be much quicker for the less experienced builders.

[Nanik]

Max,

I'm interested for weekend. Put me down for 1 spot :)

[Tristan Steele]

Depending on the weekend I may be able to duck over to Sydney to help out - I do quite a bit of surface mount work (down to 0201) as part of my day job and have done the IPC training as well. I would be happy to pass on what I know! Would this be of interest to people?

Tristan

[Max Nippard]

That would be great Tristan
Thanks.

[tALSit de CoD]

Please tell me you do 0201 by hand?!

I would be interested in a bit more advanced tricks for small parts. I just finished a prototype with mostly 0402 & SC70, it all went well, but I feel that it could take a lot less time!

[Tristan Steele]

Yep, 0201 by hand. You do need some sort of visual assistance but it's very doable. I want to try the next size down just to see what they are like! :)

Most of my boards I design with 0402 caps and 0603 resistors, that is my "norm". I still rank QFN packages as my least favourite to work with, but I design with them regularly.

I don't have any photos of my 0201 boards, but this is the latest large board that I assembled: http://openmca.info/updates/2013/3/14/the-first-prototype-is-now-assembled

My availability will be pretty much weekends, though I am planning a weekday trip to Sydney soon, I could aim for a Tuesday if that was preferred?

Tristan

[tALSit de CoD]

That board is a thing of beauty! Is that all hand-soldered? Is X1 a TXCO? I'll probably use one on my next board version, I'm just curious as to how they are integrated - I haven't read up enough on it yet.

I also use 0402's for most of my stuff, and 0603 when the 0402's are too expensive/unavailable/wrong rating. LED's are 0603, though I may go bigger since I will have to solder those manually in the final project since it's only that on the back side of the board - I have seen the reverse mount LED's and they look good, but that's more work to do, datasheet to verify.

By "visual assistance", do you mean the microscope thingy or just head-mounted binocular loupe-type thing? What tweezers do you use? 

// talsit.org

[Tristan Steele]

Thanks. :) 

That board is soldered mostly with our hot air rework station - not machine soldered, but not with an iron. It's just too much faster to not use the iron! That board was also preheated on a hot plate, as it is a 4 layer board.  

 It is a TCXO, more info is here:  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/D75J-050.0M/CW657CT-ND/1965865. If you look at the datasheet it's really easy to integrate, effectively an AC coupled output. I am using an RF transformer to convert the signal to differential.

Re: Visual assistance - I'm spoilt with access to very good microscopes at work, which are great for anything below 0603. The tweezers that I use are just the run of the mill imported cheapies with a very fine point.

[Luke Weston]

I don't have any photos of my 0201 boards, but this is the latest large board that I assembled: http://openmca.info/updates/2013/3/14/the-first-prototype-is-now-assembled

At the risk of being a bit off topic Tristan, that looks absolutely fantastic :) 

[Kean Maizels]

Sounds great Tristan.  I’m very interested, but I’m more likely to be available on a weekend like you.

I normally stick to 0805 or 0603, but for higher density I’ve considered going smaller.  Tiny QFN’s are becoming very common and are a real pain.

 

Kean

[Nanik]

Tristan,

That board is very nice mate very clean. Would be cool if you could teach us tips and tricks on soldering SMT parts.

Cheers

[Tristan Steele]

Thanks for the comments on the board everyone, there is a lot of hours in that one so far!

Does anyone want to set a date for this? I'm in Canberra so some warning is needed. :)

Tristan

[Max Nippard]

It will be a few weeks at least as I need to order parts in.

[Nanik]

Max,

Would it be possible to give us an estimate how much we have to pay ?

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

The costs depend on which kit people want to build.

I think $10-$15 above the cost of the kit. What do others think?

Please let me know what to order. we don't all have to do the same one. If anyone has there own smd project that's cool too.

[Kris]

What would the money go toward?
I had assumed there would be no cost above materials used...

--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Max Nippard]

Some of the extra money would cover kit shipping and soldering supplies like paste,flux and wick. The rest helps pay the rent.

as long as costs are covered we can decide as a group what it should cost.

[Nanik]

Hi Max,

$10-15$ is reasonable and it's fair to cover costs associated with it. Is it ok if at the same time I practise using my own board and use some of my stuff like paste, PCB, etc ?

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

Of course. Bring whatever you want to work or practice on.

[Max Nippard]

I was going to wait until I received the two blinky POV kits and tried one out before ordering the rest but if most people would prefer to do this sooner I can order the rest now.

Could people interested in building a kit please indicate which one they would like. Byo is also fine.

Also please post your thoughts on the cost. We can go as low as $2 above the kit cost for members (standard $10 day casual membership +$2 for others)
I don't have strong opinions on what the cost should be.

I know I'm asking lots of questions, just trying to get a sense for what it should be.
Plus get some note of you involved in planning things:-)

[Arik Baratz]

Where do I sign up?

I'm okay with the cost, and wouldn't mind either kit.

-- Arik

[Luke Emrose]

me too, or three, whichever we are at sequentially.

Luke Emrose
aka evolutionary theory
www.evolutionarytheory.com
www.soundcloud.com/evolutionarytheory
www.reverbnation.com/evolutionarytheory
http://www.facebook.com/pages/evolutionary-theory/110717958952413

[headingwest]

Sign me up please. And I'll take a blinky kit if possible.

[Luke Emrose]

+1 for a blinky too thanks.

On 19 March 2013 08:23, headingwest <jim.s...@divacoffee.com.au> wrote:

Sign me up please. And I'll take a blinky kit if possible.

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[Max Nippard]

Which blinky kit? Grid (a matrix,$22 for kit ) or POV (a line of LEDs,$17)

Any thoughts on pricing?

[headingwest]

I have no idea what a blinky kit is, but I want to learn SMD.

I'll take the blinky kit that's the most fun, budget up to $30 I guess!?!? 

Could you post a link to suggested blinky kits? I searched google and the first 2 (maker shed and Wayne) don't seem to have many SMD's. I was hoping for 20ish+ parts or is this biting off too much? I'd prefer advice from the experts as to what's a good starting point and a good kit to start with.

Thanks, Jim.

[Max Nippard]

See the links on the first post

--

[Arik Baratz]

1x matrix

-- Arik

On 18 March 2013 17:11, Arik Baratz <goo...@arik.baratz.org> wrote:

[headingwest]

Thanks Max, I'd prefer "Blinky Grid Red SMT" but if you're ordering bulk I'll take whatever is easiest. Learning SMD is my priority. Many thanks.

[Max Nippard]

Ok , I have placed the order for the blinky kits (6 Grid and 13 POV plus the 2 POV kits ordered earlier)

They should be here in about a week depending on dispatch date.

Thanks Max, I'd prefer "Blinky Grid Red SMT" but if you're ordering bulk I'll take whatever is easiest. Learning SMD is my priority. Many thanks.

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:32:27 AM UTC+11, Max wrote:

See the links on the first post

--

[Andrew Stone]

I'm keen too... looks like I missed the parts order....

I will place my own :) 

Any Idea on a date for this?

Cheers,

Stonie.

[Max Nippard]

Andrew I just bought parts for whoever turns up on the day or days and buys one.

[Andrew Stone]

Ok cool. 

Do you have a date in mind?

:)

Cheers,

Stonie.

[Max Nippard]

To clarify. We will have 21 kits on hand and will sell them at cost including shipping plus $². (That's right 2 very small dollars)
For non members a $10 day membership will also apply.

If we run out of kits you can still learn to solder but it will be on a practice board.

As soon as I get shipping details I'll see what dates suit.

[Tristan Steele]

I have a box full of boards under my desk at work that I can bring if people just want a blank test board to work with? They are all either surplus or coasters. :)

Tristan

[Max Nippard]

That would be great Tristan.
We can get the really bad soldering out of our system before starting a kit.:-)

[Nanik]

Hi Max,

Just to clarify for non members we pay $10 and if we use the kit we pay for the kit and if we don't use the kit we can BYO kit, is this correct ?

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

$12
The extra $2 (the same extra $2 as the kit buyer's pay) will cover the extra smd soldering supplies like fine tweezers, flux, wick, loupes.

Sorry,  I should have made that clearer.

[Max Nippard]

OK everything has been posted so now we play the waiting game.
The kits and tweezers etc should arrive next week sometime.

If the goodies are here in time we can do some easter weekend soldering.
I'm happy to do this any Tuesday and Saturday but we should pick a date so fight amongst yourselves until a date is declared victor!
Or I could say how about the 6th and the 9th?

[Nanik]

What time will the session be for those 2 dates ?

[Max Nippard]

The start times would be 6pm Tuesday and from 11am Saturday.
On the Saturday the start time is less important as we have all day and the evening too.
As this is a practical learning experience if you can't make it to the space for 11am on the Saturday just come when you can. Tuesday is a bit different as I can only stay until 9pm.

Also, if those dates aren't convenient please speak up.

--

[Tristan Steele]

I won't be able to make it over for either of those dates - that Saturday is Maker Faire in Adelaide.

The earliest I could do is the 20th of April. 

Having said that, I don't mind at all if you do it when I'm not available, it could be difficult getting a date that suits everyone.

Tristan

[Max Nippard]

Ah, good point, I'll look at later dates.

[Nanik]

Hi Max,

I'm in for the 6th April Saturday session.

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

Sorry Nanik, I think we will have to postpone it a couple of weeks as maker faire and the ROS work shop are on the the two Saturdays after easter.

[Tristan Steele]

I'm keen for the following weekend, the 20th of April. Does this work for others?

Tristan

[Jason Ball]

Maker faire?   Must have missed this one.

[Julian Sortland]

Am interested, if I am in Sydney at the time
Julian.

On 24 March 2013 21:52, Max Nippard <mnip...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Madox]

Maker Faire ADELAIDE :)

[Max Nippard]

Yeah, I was thinking the 20th for the Saturday and maybe the tuesday 16th.

[headingwest]

Hey Max, I'll fit into any dates, but if we could finalise one that would be great - I can put my wild social life on hold for those few hours.

[Nanik]

Ok 20th April is fine for me. I'm in !

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

I think we can set these dates now. No one has raised a problem with them and I don't know of anything clashes.
So 20th for the Saturday and Tuesday 16th it is. Yay!

Hey Max, I'll fit into any dates, but if we could finalise one that would be great - I can put my wild social life on hold for those few hours.

--

[Andrew Stone]

Bummer,

Sorry been snowed under with work... bit slow to raise my hand on the clash thing...

April 20th is "hardware freedom day" the "other" Sydney hackspace is holding an event... so that's a clash for me at least.  :-/

http://www.ozberrypi.org/events/109635212/

http://www.hfday.org/map/index.php?year=2013

I am super keen... so I will try and make the Tuesday night. :)

Regards,

Stonie.

[Madox]

Just ran into this video again -

It is a "must watch" preferably before the tutorial day :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY#!

On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:15:12 PM UTC+11, Max wrote:

Surface mount soldering for fun and... um... more fun.

Would people be interested in learning SMD soldering (or regular soldering) at the space with kits like these?

It's more fun than just practicing on old hard drive boards!

We could cover both hand soldering and using the oven.

http://www.jenrathbun.com/Electronics/?page_id=193

http://youtu.be/8zwdT4FWd98

http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_Grid_Red_SMT_p/mkwl07.htm

http://www.makershed.com/Blinky_POV_Red_SMT_p/mkwl06.htm

http://littlebirdelectronics.com/products/solder-time-ii-watch-kit

[Andrew Stone]

Very impressive! :)

Does someone have a rough time will the doors open on Tuesday night?

Cheers,

Stonie.

--

[Max Nippard]

I'll try to be there before 5pm on Tuesday.
Maybe 5:30at the latest.

I can only stay until 8pm but the space is normally open til after 9pm.

[Nanik]

Max,

What time on Sat, 20th you want to start the workshop ?

Cheers

[Max Nippard]

11am sounds good for Saturday start.
You can come later as it will be an informal session of building and practice of the various ways to solder small things.

[Nanik]

Cool...will be there at around 11.30'ish after completing my daddy duty :)

[kris]

I may or may not be able to make it on saturday.
However, my boards are back from seeed and if you would like to practice, i have a simple one sided pcb that uses 21 SMD resisters (either 0805 or 0603)

The board allows you to control three 7 segment displays and an LED via three control lines from an arduino or similar (basically it's three shift registers connected to 7 segment displays - send it a string of binary and it will display stuff).

I have 8 boards left, they are free to anyone who wants them
you will also require:

1 X 120 Ohm resister (thru-hole)
21 X 0805 or 0603 140 Ohm resisters (or similar, the space has a roll of 240 Ohm 0603, which also fit)
3 X Shift registers (74HC164) Jaycar ZC4857 $1.50 each
3 X 7Segment displays (S505RWB Common Cathode) Jaycar ZD1855 $3.45 each

See pic for more info
I intend to use it as a clock, with the two led's on the right forming the '1' in 10:00, 11:00 and 12:00
I haven't yet got the code written but i will post it when finished.

In the photo i used the IR oven to solder the smd's then hand soldered the rest using the space's excellent iron.


Kris

[aaron...@exemail.com.au]

Kris,

How did you find Seeed? What was the turn around time for your boards?

I have almost finished a board design and was thinking of using them.

Also, does anyone have some spare 1/6W through-hole resistors (sorry to
mention them on an SMD thread)? I can get the ones I need easily enough on
eBay, but the minimum order quantity is 1000. Cost is not such an issue
(they are only around $5 or $6 per 1000 delivered). I am just not sure
what I will do with the other 995 after I am finished :)

If no one has any laying around, would the space be interested in a few
spare resistors?

Aaron.

>> <mailto:sydney-hackspace%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

>> To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:sydney-h...@googlegroups.com>.

[Max Nippard]

For programming the blinky POV and blinky grid badges head over to: http://www.wayneandlayne.com/blinky_programmer/

[kr...@sleepingplanet.com]

I used them because of the many people on this list who recommended them.

If you are not in a hurry they are great and the result looks very professional.

you can pay $25 more of your dollars for express postage but i think you are still looking at about two weeks (mine took three so was not that bad).

It was fairly painless but still a little bit manual: finish the design, run the design rule checks, figure out what warnings you can ignore, upload all the files even if your board doesn't use them all.

then wait....

they have a forum, but it's not very active.

Have a look at the robodino wiki, there are some links on there which helped me

http://hackerspace.pbworks.com/w/page/48330990/Designing%20PCBs

I'm new to all of this, so if i can do it, you can :0)

Kris

 

 

On 16.04.2013 21:21, aaron...@exemail.com.au wrote:

Kris,

How did you find Seeed? What was the turn around time for your boards?

I have almost finished a board design and was thinking of using them.

Also, does anyone have some spare 1/6W through-hole resistors (sorry to
mention them on an SMD thread)? I can get the ones I need easily enough on
eBay, but the minimum order quantity is 1000. Cost is not such an issue
(they are only around $5 or $6 per 1000 delivered). I am just not sure
what I will do with the other 995 after I am finished :)

If no one has any laying around, would the space be interested in a few
spare resistors?

Aaron.

I may or may not be able to make it on saturday. However, my boards are back from seeed and if you would like to practice, i have a simple one sided pcb that uses 21 SMD resisters (either 0805 or 0603) The board allows you to control three 7 segment displays and an LED via three control lines from an arduino or similar (basically it's three shift registers connected to 7 segment displays - send it a string of binary and it will display stuff). I have 8 boards left, they are free to anyone who wants them you will also require: 1 X 120 Ohm resister (thru-hole) 21 X 0805 or 0603 140 Ohm resisters (or similar, the space has a roll of 240 Ohm 0603, which also fit) 3 X Shift registers (74HC164) Jaycar ZC4857 $1.50 each 3 X 7Segment displays (S505RWB Common Cathode) Jaycar ZD1855 $3.45 each See pic for more info I intend to use it as a clock, with the two led's on the right forming the '1' in 10:00, 11:00 and 12:00 I haven't yet got the code written but i will post it when finished. In the photo i used the IR oven to solder the smd's then hand soldered the rest using the space's excellent iron. Kris On 25/03/2013 9:53 PM, Max Nippard wrote:

I think we can set these dates now. No one has raised a problem with them and I don't know of anything clashes. So 20th for the Saturday and Tuesday 16th it is. Yay! Hey Max, I'll fit into any dates, but if we could finalise one that would be great - I can put my wild social life on hold for those few hours. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com sydney-hackspace%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com sydney-h...@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sydney-hackspace?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sydney-hackspace?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[headingwest]

Big thanks to Max and the guys for tonight. We learned heaps and now can claim to have SMT'd a board. Definitely feel more confident about the surface mount stuff.

Now I just need some ideas for the message to put on blinky before I gift it to my wife...

[Andrew Stone]

Yeah I second that! Max your patience and help was really appreciated! I had a great time. :)

And thanks to Kean for all the inspiration!

:)

Cheers,
Stonie.

On 16 April 2013 21:49, headingwest <jim.s...@divacoffee.com.au> wrote:

Big thanks to Max and the guys for tonight. We learned heaps and now can claim to have SMT'd a board. Definitely feel more confident about the surface mount stuff.

Now I just need some ideas for the message to put on blinky before I gift it to my wife...

--

[Max Nippard]

Thanks guys. We didn't  get time to do much hand smd soldering so that can be something for next time.

[Tristan Steele]

Is there still people interested in something on Saturday?

[Andrew]

Yup!

[Max Nippard]

Most definitely.  Tuesday was for the people who couldn't make it on Saturday.

[Tristan Steele]

Sounds good. I'm catching a 6am bus tomorrow morning, so I will be into Central around 9.30ish.

IIRC 11.00 was when the space was due to be open?

Is there plenty of solder wick, solder paste, flux, methylated spirits / ethanol / isopropanol? I can shoot into Jaycar in the city if more supplies are needed.

I have also grabbed a small amount of lead free solder if anyone wants to have a play with it.

Anything else I may have forgotten?

Tristan

[tALSit de CoD]

Webcam to stream it all!!!

// talsit.org

[Max Nippard]

Tristan, i have a bottle of isopropyl and there should be plenty of metho. One or two tubes of solder paste and one of flux paste and heaps of wick.

an extra tube of solder paste could be useful and maybe a thin solder wick (the ones we have are 2mm and up).

[Tristan Steele]

Ok, I will head into Jaycar in the morning. Let me know if there is anything else that is required! :)

I am used to safety glasses being required for soldering, is this the norm at the space? - if so BYO I assume?

Tristan

[Max Nippard]

Thanks.

We have safety glasses, but do not require them. we may not have enough for everyone so if you want to wear them and have a pair bring them along.

[Luke Emrose]

On my way to join in!
Soldering iron at the ready (what a crazy day - the weather is mental....)

[Nanik]

I had a great day yesterday and was able to solder my board (even though it's still WIP). Thanks to Max for being patience and always ready to answer question and assist during the workshop. Really recommend for anybody who didn't get a chance to come to the workshop.

Thanks to Gav and Kean too for answering question from newbie like myself.

Cheers

[Nanik]

I've posted some photos  https://plus.google.com/113009816988524086768/posts/b33syjS83dq

[Max Nippard]

Thanks to everyone who came to help and participate.
We still have plenty of blinky led badge kits left so if anyone feels like soldering one next time you're at the space just ask.
Kean brought some kits of his 80 led matrix badge too.

Here's my badges from the day.

--

[tALSit de CoD]

Hey, I just came across this on tindie:

https://www.tindie.com/products/NsN/simple-silkscreen-reference-card/

I thought it may be handy to have a couple at the space for reference.

// talsit.org

[Andrew Stone]

Woah! some awesome stuff on tindie thanks for the heads up!