OSUG - May 6th
Chris Pollach
This is a preliminary announcement about the upcoming Ottawa Sybase User
Group (OSUG) meeting to be held on May 6th, 2009. This will be a world
premier event hosting Mr Dave Fish from Sybase engineering giving us a full
day with PowerBuilder 12 CTP (Customer Technology Preview) - the next
generation development tool. Based completely on the .Net Development Shell,
this version of PB is like no other. You will be one of the first people to
see the full product in action, get an in-depth review of its features, see
live demonstrations of the IDE in action and then get a ½ day "hands-on"
training session to boot!
I have provided you a link to the hidden agenda page. The information
for the day is currently presented in rough - but you will see how we are
planning the day in general. The AM session will be of interest to
developers, project leaders, analysts, IT managers, consultants, etc who
want to see how this version will leap frog Visual Studio 2010. The
afternoon session geared for the PB Developer will allow you to directly
interact with the real product. For more information, please follow this
link: http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com/osug_may_6th.htm
Note: The registration component is already active. Please follow the
registration directions and we will reserve you a seat for this momentous
historic event. Also, tell all your friends and colleagues to come and join
us - there is a new .Net tool in town.
Make sure that you book mark the URL above and check it regularly as I
continue to update the information within the next few working days. Once
the information is complete, I will make the web page visible.
I hope to see you there!
Regards ... Chris Pollach
President: Software Tool & Die Inc.
Director: ISUG - North American User Groups
OSUG - Coordinator
http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com
Chris Pollach
I like putting in a little controversial hype in my advertising.
However, if you look at this from the business application developers
perspective - not the utility or game developers POV - I think that PB 12
with its WPF based DataWindow may be the better platform for these type of
applications. Just my "warped" $0.02 on the subject. :-)
Anyway - I have had over 30 registrations in the past 24 hours since the
announcement was made. Even high profile IT managers are coming, consulting
company directors and some people already from the US. So now its up to Dave
to strut the PB 12 stuff and then lets see what the audience really thinks.
I am just the "conduit" guy to make these type of things happen.
It will be interesting to hear the feedback from the real development
community here in Canada's capital (be there or be square)! :-)
"Troy" <troy-n...@onesplace.com> wrote in message
news:op.urtec...@bhm-is-td-l1.corporate.local...
>> The AM session will be of interest to
>> developers, project leaders, analysts, IT managers, consultants, etc who
>> want to see how this version will leap frog Visual Studio 2010.
>
> Did we not learn our lessons with PB 11? Setting these type of unreachable
> expectations is only going to hurt the product in the long run. There is
> no comparision but if you insist on making one...
>
> How do you leap frog something that Sybase uses as a base for their tool?
> Meaning, without VS, Powerbuilder.Net would not exist? Also, how do you
> account for the full .Net development capabilities of VS that Powerbuilder
> does not have in 12 and will not have as .Net 4.0 releases? Even in the
> upcoming release, there are features of WPF and WCF that Sybase still
> hasen't decided if they will have time to implement that VS already does
> prior to 10. There are entire classes of .Net projects that cannot be
> realized in PB 12.
>
> Lets make it simple. Look at the common denominator. That statement
> doesn't even have a remote chance of being true until I can use PB to
> create the exact same ASP.Net applications I can create in Visual Studio.
> It will not have a chance of being true until I can use PB to create the
> exact same WPF, WCF or Windows Workflow applications than I can create in
> Visual Studio. Now reverse it, I can use VS to create everything PB does
> right now and post the 12 release.
>
> What it can do is add a little life to a legacy codebase that no one wants
> to spend conversion level money on.
>
> Troy
Troy
> developers, project leaders, analysts, IT managers, consultants, etc who
> want to see how this version will leap frog Visual Studio 2010.
Did we not learn our lessons with PB 11? Setting these type of unreachable
Brad Wery[TeamSybase]
I think you're reading too much into this. PB's goal is to make it
easier to develop .Net applications, that's all.
The first thing that comes to mind is the WPF datawindow. One thing that
I've learned over the past few weeks is that data binding in WPF (in my
case Silverlight) is very powerful. At the same time, it's hard to work
with. Maybe I haven't fully figured it out yet but it does seem like a
pain (i.e. it's not very intuitive). I think the WPF datawindow will
make things like this much easier. That seems like a reasonable goal to me.
But I agree some what. This next version of PB has to be able to support
some of the more expanding programming concepts (e.g. TDD ). One other
thing I would like to see support for is LINQ. Or at least the ability
to create an EF data model and be able to bind that to a datawindow.
--
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Chris Pollach
The details of this aspect of the event are still being worked out. I
have not had a chance to discuss this further with Dave this week. Our
original intention was to offer this to the PM attendees after they
completed the 1/2 day training. That way, Sybase would have people that
could give the CTP a real work out. I will let you know more as soon as I
know. In the mean time, please book mark the link I posted and stay tuned
for more information as the meeting details are worked out.
Where are you located?
--
Regards ... Chris
ISUG - NA RUG Director
http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com
"Dave Hauze" <david...@steeldynamics.com> wrote in message
news:49d64ed4$1@forums-1-dub...
> Chris, you mention that a copy of PB 12 CTP will be provided after the
> event. Will this be made available shortly after to others who wish to
> test the technology and see how it will fit into their environments and
> whether it will be a viable option once it is released? I would love to
> attend the event, unfortunately, due to a serious injury I recently
> incurred, I will be unable to do so, but I hate to miss out on a chance to
> preview the product and begin making a plan to migrate our products once
> it is release. Thanks for any info you can provide along these lines!!
>
> --
> Dave Hauze
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:49d60890@forums-1-dub...
Dave Hauze
event. Will this be made available shortly after to others who wish to test
the technology and see how it will fit into their environments and whether
it will be a viable option once it is released? I would love to attend the
event, unfortunately, due to a serious injury I recently incurred, I will be
unable to do so, but I hate to miss out on a chance to preview the product
and begin making a plan to migrate our products once it is release. Thanks
for any info you can provide along these lines!!
--
Dave Hauze
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49d60890@forums-1-dub...
brettweaver
You are doing a great job for the cause.. We could do with
similar sessions down here I'm sure.
... However ... PB is not going to be any use for me in a
Net environment until I can deploy Web Services or Web
Forms onto a publicly hosted IIS WebServer. I don't mind
copying up run-times but I cannot reconfigure in order to
run.
Unless PB can generate a .Net web service which runs without
having to load special code at webserver level (Which no
public hoster will allow) then its not useful to anyone. You
might as well deploy client server as you can deploy that
without having to reconfigure the machines the code is going
on.
My .02 AUD
Paul Horan[Sybase]
> ... However ... PB is not going to be any use for me in a
> Net environment until I can deploy Web Services or Web
> Forms onto a publicly hosted IIS WebServer. I don't mind
> copying up run-times but I cannot reconfigure in order to
> run.
This will be available with PB12. The runtime engine will be completely
managed code.
--
Paul Horan[Sybase]
paulhoran.pbdjmagazine.com
Chris Pollach
Hi Paul;
Will PB 12 also include Webforms or is that only in Classic?
--
Regards ... Chris
ISUG - NA RUG Director
http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com
"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <phoran_remove@remove_sybase.com> wrote in message
news:49d98b8c$1@forums-1-dub...
Chris Pollach
Yes ... that would be Fair Dinkum! :-)
There is always the virtual server route that Paul Murray had found. But
I agree with you 100% that this would make it allow easier to deploy to any
.Net enabled ISP.
--
Regards ... Chris
ISUG - NA RUG Director
http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com
<Brett Weaver> wrote in message news:49d92c66.346...@sybase.com...
Chris Pollach
That is what I thought ... thanks!
"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <phoran_remove@remove_sybase.com> wrote in message
news:49da0ac4@forums-1-dub...
> PB.Net will include WPF, Assembly, and web services targets.
> All others will remain in PB Classic, including WebForms and WinForms.
>
> --
> Paul Horan[Sybase]
> paulhoran.pbdjmagazine.com
>
> "Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
> news:49d9e4f3$1@forums-1-dub...
Roland Smith [TeamSybase]
Silverlight. At Techwave they mentioned that they probably would be
available in a follow on release, not the GA. From last Techwave to the
expected GA date is 17-23 months so things could change.
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49d9e4f3$1@forums-1-dub...
>
Paul Horan[Sybase]
All others will remain in PB Classic, including WebForms and WinForms.
--
Paul Horan[Sybase]
paulhoran.pbdjmagazine.com
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49d9e4f3$1@forums-1-dub...
>
![Terry Voth [TeamSybase]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVklmaD3P7c9mYLj1EUbYO3kvYUxaVrJ1_UaYHgfBFyJ9WH=s40-c)
Terry Voth [TeamSybase]
Good luck,
Terry and Sequel the techno-kitten
On 6 Apr 2009 04:18:11 -0700, "Chris Pollach"
<cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Paul;
>
> Will PB 12 also include Webforms or is that only in Classic?
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Chris Pollach
I thought that "classic" will be its own release ... not in the same
product - but in the same time frame.
"Terry Voth [TeamSybase]" <seq...@techno-kitten.com> wrote in message
news:unekt4putdo8taa8s...@4ax.com...
Roland Smith [TeamSybase]
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49da46ea$1@forums-1-dub...
Terry Voth [TeamSybase]
On 6 Apr 2009 12:10:23 -0700, "Roland Smith [TeamSybase]"
Troy
that set the expectations. I just cant figure out what is provoking them
to do it. Dave did it with PB 11, Chris does it and I even heard John do
it at a live event. From my perspective, I don't like it because it sets
bad expectations with the PB developers that those of us on the .Net side
have to correct. But then again I might be unique in that I am trying to
get the two to coexist.
On WPF databinding, there isn't much about WPF that is intuitive at first
unless your a ASP.Net developer. It is a good bit different from classic
application UI development. But once you get it, it's ultra flexible both
on the UI creation and data binding sides. Binding anything to anything is
still one of the best features of .Net and that is carried forward in WPF.
Couple that with the high fidelity UI's you can create and it is very
powerful.
What we do not know yet, as is the Sybase way, is what will we have to
give up to use it? It will be something..always is. Will it be important
to you? Who knows. Last time it was managed code, control over ASP.Net,
slow apps and a lack of full .Net support. Usually it's control over the
detail. That's not a good sign as WPF is packed full of a lot of detail.
Layers of detail. Although many might differ with me on it, I still think
that due to the way these are implemented, you are getting how Sybase
thinks you should write and build WPF applications and not how the WPF
aware developer would do it.
I will go out on a limb and say this..I promise you everything in the
unsupported list for WPF will not be all that is unsupported when the
release hits. I can also promise that even LESS of a percentage of the
.Net framework will be supported by the time this release hits due to the
pace that MS is setting. That's not F.U.D. either, its a historical
pattern carried to it's next logical step.
Btw, did we ever get a decision on control templates and sytles..themes?
Will they be supported at release?
Troy
Dave Fish [Sybase]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTwAoFR4DuM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JARkLg_lHFo&feature=related
On 6 Apr 2009 04:26:55 -0700, "Chris Pollach"
Chris Pollach
LOL - from the North American perspective we are both from the "Land down
under"! :-)))))
"Dave Fish [Sybase]" <n0Spam...@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:1f7lt49tgrppmk5vm...@4ax.com...
Chris Pollach
That does not make sense as PB 12 classis will be using the old IDE and PB
12.Net will be under the .Net Isolated Development Shell AFAIK.
"Terry Voth [TeamSybase]" <seq...@techno-kitten.com> wrote in message
news:5gmkt4tllto59o12a...@4ax.com...
Chris Pollach
Hi Troy;
I love your posts! That is why I try to be the "Yang" and you always
take the "Yin" side.
Yin-yang is a dynamic equilibrium. Because they arise together they are
always equal: if one disappears, the other must disappear as well, leaving
emptiness. This is rarely immediately apparent, though, because yang
elements are clear and obvious while yin elements are hidden and subtle.
The truth is out there (May 6th OSUG) .... xFiles thing! :-)
--
Regards ... Chris
ISUG - NA RUG Director
http://chrispollach.pbdjmagazine.com
"Troy" <troy-n...@onesplace.com> wrote in message
news:op.urzcs...@bhm-is-td-l1.corporate.local...
Terry Voth [TeamSybase]
Did it make any more sense when ObjectCycle, which not only had its
own IDE but a completely distinct and independent purpose, was
packaged with PB? <g>
Good luck,
Terry and Sequel the techno-kitten
On 7 Apr 2009 04:39:08 -0700, "Chris Pollach"
Chris Pollach
Yes ... same package (if you are an enterprise customer I assume) - but two
different products and installs (like PB and IM today).
"Terry Voth [TeamSybase]" <seq...@techno-kitten.com> wrote in message
news:r1imt49htbkeck3qr...@4ax.com...
Paul Horan[Sybase]
I think we're getting hung up on semantics here.
"Packaged together" does not mean one program - it means two separate
programs in the same box with a single install routine. You run setup.exe
once, and you get two separate entries in the Start > Programs >Sybase>
PowerBuilder 12.0 menu - one fpr PB12 Classic and one for PB.Net.
--
Paul Horan[Sybase]
paulhoran.pbdjmagazine.com
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49db4fe9$1@forums-1-dub...
Chris Pollach
Perfect ... that is more like what I had heard.
Thanks for the clarification!
Regards ... Chris
"Paul Horan[Sybase]" <phoran_remove@remove_sybase.com> wrote in message
news:49db5903$1@forums-1-dub...
Dave Hauze
keep up with the info at the link you mention. I wish I could attend, but
that won't be a possibility.
--
Dave Hauze
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49d65205$1@forums-1-dub...
Chris Pollach
Sorry that you can not come to the Great White North ... you can
certainly email me after May 6th and I can update you on any of the latest
PB 12 information that Sybase authorizes me to talk about.
"Dave Hauze" <david...@steeldynamics.com> wrote in message
news:49dcbb64$1@forums-1-dub...
Dave Hauze
--
Dave Hauze
"Chris Pollach" <cpol...@travel-net.com> wrote in message
news:49dcbddb$1@forums-1-dub...