ASE Certifications
rajpre...@gmail.com
Can someone please guide about the certification path? I have already
cleared ASE SQL Developer Associate 510-410. What could be the best
path to follow? Inputs from your personnel experiences will be very
helpful.....
Regards,
Rajpreet
Mark A. Parsons
DBA certification?
Developer certification?
I-have-a-particular-job-in-mind-which-requires-a-specific-certification-level?
My-(prospective)-boss-likes-to-see-lots-of-certifications-on-my-resume-regardless-of-real-world-experience?
rajpre...@gmail.com
<iron_horse@no_spamola_compuserve.com> wrote:
> What's your final objective?
>
> DBA certification?
>
> Developer certification?
>
>
> My-(prospective)-boss-likes-to-see-lots-of-certifications-on-my-resume-regardless-of-real-world-experience?
>
>
>
> rajpreetsi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > Can someone please guide about the certification path? I have already
> > cleared ASE SQL Developer Associate 510-410. What could be the best
> > path to follow? Inputs from your personnel experiences will be very
> > helpful.....
>
> > Regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi
Actually I am working with an MNC as well as doing my MS.
Right now a developer...Now have to go on the path of a developer.
Later on may b after an yearI can take up DBA course...Till then I
would have more experience also in hand.
And one more qustion, just out of curisoity, like what you think a
person should have the minimal experinece in practical field, so as to
go for DBA certification?
Please advise.
Regards,
Rajpreet
rajpre...@gmail.com
>
> DBA certification?
>
> Developer certification?
>
>
> My-(prospective)-boss-likes-to-see-lots-of-certifications-on-my-resume-regardless-of-real-world-experience?
>
>
>
> rajpreetsi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > Can someone please guide about the certification path? I have already
> > cleared ASE SQL Developer Associate 510-410. What could be the best
> > path to follow? Inputs from your personnel experiences will be very
> > helpful.....
>
> > Regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Its not about the numberof certifications on my resume currently,as I
am a student yet though an employee also, but just to give my career a
good shape...
Mark A. Parsons
I've know folks with 0 DBA experience who passed all of the DBA certification exams.
-----------------------
There is no relationship between 'experience' and the knowledge necessary to pass a (Sybase) certification exam.
Certification exams require that you know facts about a product ... facts that can be found by reading all of the product manuals. So someone with 0 DBA experience *can* pass a DBA certfication exam if they've read/memorized/understood all of the product manuals.
Experience may or may not help with a certification exam if said experience only covers *some* of the capabilities of the product (this would be similar to having read just *some* of the product manuals). Experience with *ALL* aspects of a product would be equivalent to reading through *all* of the product manuals ... thus increasing the chance of passing a certification exam which is based on the contents of *all* of the product manuals.
-----------------------
So, which is better ... experience or certification exams?
Neither ... both ... either one ... depends on your situation.
I've known folks with certification exams up the wazoo who couldn't add a login to an ASE dataserver, figure out who was logged into the dataserver, or write a simple SELECT statement against a single table.
I've known folks with 1-10+ years of experience (and no certification exams) who either a) know the ASE dataserver better than the backs of their hands and/or b) know where to look (eg, manuals, solved cases at sybase.com, newsgroups, Google search) when they run into an issue they've never seen before (or are unsure about).
Unforutnately I've also run into recruiters and hiring managers who look solely for certification exams on the resume/cv without understanding the above, ie, certification exams by themselves are *NOT* a substitute for experience.
-----------------------
My personal opinion on certification exams?
1 - studying for a certification exam forces you to read through *ALL* of the product manuals; this is a good thing in that it refreshes your memory on product capabilities that you may have forgotten about (or not known about in the first place) [notice that I said *studying for* and not *taking* a certification exam!]
2 - passing a certification exam is a nice pat-on-the-back acknolwedgement that you know *some* facts about a product; but did you really need to take an exam to figure that out? [notice I said '*some* facts' since certification exams don't test *all* of your factual knowledge nor do they test any of your experiential knowledge]
3 - may help land a job if you run into a recruiter/hiring-manager who *insist* on having said certification exam ... and assuming you're desperate for this specific job
4 - may come in handy when you're in a love-me-wall competition with other folks; 'love-me-wall => refers to those folks who insist on hanging up, for public display, all of their accomplishments ... college degrees, club memberships, ribbons from their high school science fair, certification exams, notches on the bed post, Oktoberfest competitions, and on and on and on ... ;-)
5 - is a waste of money and test-taking time if there is no actual requirement to have said certification exam [notice I did *not* say that studying for the exam was a waste of time ... see #1 => refreshing memory about product capabilities]
rajpre...@gmail.com wrote:
... snip ...
Sherlock, Kevin
"Mark A. Parsons" <iron_horse@no_spamola_compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:461d21ae$1@forums-1-dub...
rajpre...@gmail.com
> Wow! Well stated Mark. This is so incredibly on the money...
>
> > ... snip ...
> >> And one more qustion, just out of curisoity, like what you think a
> >> person should have the minimal experinece in practical field, so as to
> >> go for DBA certification?
>
> >> Please advise.
>
> >> Regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well thanks a lot Mark!
I appreciate the way you have considered every aspect...:-)
I agree with you that ultimately all what matters is knowledge.
And this is also true that you need not have degrees or certifications
when actually you donot have real knowledge of the product..
But you know the aim behind giving certification exam, other than
having those on your resume to encounter that * special managerial
approach *,is that you get some time out of your day to day schedule
to get some more knowledge of the product as its a fact if you are
working on a real life project, then obviously you would nt get a
chance to have hands on to test out all the various features and
special practical problems in the application you might be currently
working...
Giving an exam just gives you a boost to read those unread manual
parts, to hv more hands on and ultimately to get more knowledge about
the product....And when you have sufficient knowledge, then whats the
harm in giving exam to have a good boost to your morale, a pat on your
back(though given by yourself or the Product company only and esp when
your manager is so ;-) )
ANd the real question remains intact....going for a professional
certificate and then DBA ones wil be the right path...ISnot it?
Share your opinion please.....You seem to have lot of experience and
good vision...
Will help me in my career..
Thanks in advance!
Mark A. Parsons
rajpre...@gmail.com wrote:
... snip ...
> But you know the aim behind giving certification exam ...
> ... is that you get some time out of your day to day schedule
> to get some more knowledge of the product as its a fact if you are
> working on a real life project, then obviously you would nt get a
> chance to have hands on to test out all the various features and
> special practical problems in the application you might be currently
> working...
Ahhhh, so if I'm reading you correctly you wish to use the certification exam as justification for using business hours
to read the manuals and test out features/ideas (ie, get paid to learn).
While there's nothing wrong with this approach ... as long as your boss is willing to go along for the ride ... this is
*NOT* the only way to learn a product and/or develop experience.
Every place I've worked has had development systems and/or machines on which I could do my what-if testing, to include
building new (albeit small) ASE's (and RS's, IQ's and Mirror Activator's). I've never run into a boss who said 'No' to
a request to use development systems, after hours, to get in some personal training ... especially, ESPECIALLY if I
could point out how it would benefit the company (bosses really like to hear this!).
In some cases you can even get free, or relatively cheap, access to use Sybase products at home.
Sooooo ...
What's wrong with spending extra time after hours, outside of the normal business day, to do your reading? You can do
this from just about anywhere, including home.
What's wrong with doing your what-if testing on work (or home) development and test systems on your own time?
If your answers are that you don't get paid for your after-hours studies and learning ... or that you'd rather use your
BOSS's time instead of YOUR time to study/learn ... then you are greatly limiting your abilities (to learn, to gain
experience, to advance your career).
----------------------
If you're going to work with computers as a career I might as well let you in on a little secret *NOW* (as opposed to
you finding out the hard way several years from now) ... to maintain your marketability (ie, find/keep a well-paying
job) you *WILL* have to, periodically, spend time learning new skills.
If you're lucky you'll find a boss who will pay for your ongoing training on new products and systems. But don't hold
your breath on this one; these types of bosses are very rare ... and even the rare ones will expect to see you excel in
your job once you've done a little bit of on-the-job training, ie, you better learn something very useful while you're
on the boss's time.
If you're not so lucky with finding a deep-pockets boss, or you some day venture out into the consulting/contracting
world, you *WILL* have to get your training on your own ... whether this is accomplished by you spending your own money
for training, or spending your own time for reading/what-if testing, it doesn't matter ... you *WILL* have to invest
some of *YOUR* resources (time, money, etc.) to maintain *YOUR* marketability.
----------------------
I know DBA's who ... don't want to read the manuals on their own time ... don't want to do what-if testing on their own
time ... would prefer to go to the movies, eat out, go to a sports event, do anything-other-than-work on their own time.
These folks are also the types who, even when the boss pays for some on-the-job training, they don't learn anything
because they usually aren't paying attention or concentrating on the 'job' at hand. In the end these DBA's can't figure
out why they're passed over for promotions/raises, or why the boss won't pay for any more on-the-job training.
I know DBA's who ... spend time after business hours reading manuals ... do what-if testing on their own time (either on
development/test systems at work or at home with Sybase software they have downloaded/purchased) ... who bypass some of
the movies, eating out and sports events in order to learn a new skill. If/when the boss pays for some on-the-job
training these DBA's are the one's who come away from the training with a new understanding of the systems they're
managing (ie, they've added to their skill set). These DBA's are the ones who get the promotions, pay raises, and
additional paid training/conferences.
Are there exceptions to the above? Sure, you could work your arse off just to find the boss doesn't treat you any
better ... in which case you still have the new/advanced skill set(s) ... which you can take with you when you look for
a new job!
----------------------
Soooo, if you want to improve your skill set(s) ... and improve/increase your marketability ... decide what's more
important to you ...
- short term personal gratification (movies, eating out, sports events, etc.) in return for reduced skill sets, reduced
marketability, and possibly reduced personal satisfaction for years to come (eg, stuck in a going-nowhere job because
you don't have the skills necessary to move up the ladder or get a job elsewhere)
or
- occasionally spend personal resources (time and money) to develop new skills in return for improved marketability and
greater personal satisfaction for years to come (ie, promotions, pay raises, choice of jobs)
----------------------
Another way to look at this ...
- re: personal gratification (movies, eating out, sports events, etc) - these have extremely short-term benefits which
typically provide *NO* benefit to you on down the road; think 'waste of time and money'
- re: reading/training on your own time - not very 'fun' up front, especially if all your friends are concentrating on
the personal gratification (movies, eating out, etc), but you develop a skill set that provides a long term benefit to
you in the form of better jobs and pay ... which in turn will allow you to periodically splurge on yourself (travel,
nicer home/car, better restaurants, nicer lifestyle) to the envy of your friends who are stuck in their going-nowhere
jobs and limited pay; think 'upfront investment of your time and money'
----------------------
A lot of people worry about the best way to invest their money in the markets when they should probably consider a
different investment ... themselves!
Invest some of your time and money in yourself. The improved skill sets and experience will pay off in the form of
better (paying) jobs ... which for most folks will turn out to be safer, and more profitable, than investing in the markets.
> ANd the real question remains intact....going for a professional
> certificate and then DBA ones wil be the right path...ISnot it?
> Share your opinion please.....You seem to have lot of experience and
> good vision...
> Will help me in my career..
My opinion? You've already got most of it from this and my previous post, but to sum it up:
1 - don't worry about certification exams unless you *HAVE* to have the certification to obtain a job that you *MUST* have
2 - don't rely on finding a job where the boss will hold your hand and give you all the on-the-job training you *WANT*;
at some point you *WILL* have to pay the boss back in the form of increased work efficiency and possibly reduced pay
(eg, paid training in lieu of pay raises!)
3 - plan on *INVESTING* some of your own resources (time and money) to train yourself in new skill sets; not only do you
develop a skill (and some experience) that you keep for the rest of your life, but you will also develop a work ethic
(eg, study/test to find a solution) that will be prized at just about any job you land ... and with your advanced skill
set(s) and experience you'll find that you have more jobs to choose from