Plan Concept Meeting

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Tim Saults

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Oct 1, 2024, 11:38:13 AMOct 1
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Hello All,

We have received our plans from the city for the next steps for traffic calming in our neighborhood.  I'm so excited to be at this point in the process.  The traffic calming committee has been working on this process now for close to two years and the streets affected are Hedgeapple LN, Greenwood Ave, and Busbee.  

Hayley Howard will be presenting the plan with all neighbors so please come and ask questions and voice concerns.  All are welcome even if you do not live on the affected streets.  The time is 6pm Tuesday October the 8th at Woodlawn Christian Church downstairs in room B115. I will have my phone so if anyone needs help finding the meeting room you can give me a call at 865-206-9915.  

If you have any questions for me you can call or email me.

Thanks,

Tim Saults 

Judy Barnette

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Oct 1, 2024, 1:35:09 PMOct 1
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Thanks, Tim. I will be out of town, but I think the concept plan is in good hands!
Judy Barnette  
Tediously typed on tiny keyboard, y'all :)

On Oct 1, 2024, at 11:38 AM, 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association <sw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


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Laura Stone

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Oct 4, 2024, 1:47:55 PMOct 4
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Many Greenwood residents are still pissed at the apartment complex aligning an exit with Greenwood,  allowing drivers to rapidly build up speed on Greenwood. The apartment planners specifically told the neighborhood association that would NOT happen.

I've heard a few people complain about speeders for the past 3 years, I myself, have only witnessed  3 events that got my attention.  I don't think it's so bad, except there is no sidewalk for pedestrians to get out of the way. Irmentraud, 93 years old, for example.


On Tue, Oct 1, 2024, 2:10 PM Laura Stone <reevie...@gmail.com> wrote:

There are people on your street who DO want to add speed bumps aka Traffic calming devices. I Don't see the need for them either. That's why I'm attending the meeting.  Traffic studies have been done and they're presenting the city's plan of action. Inquiring minds want to know.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swna/CB4B5079-071C-415E-9535-9B512E255A9F%40yahoo.com.

Laura Stone

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Oct 4, 2024, 1:47:55 PMOct 4
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There are people on your street who DO want to add speed bumps aka Traffic calming devices. I Don't see the need for them either. That's why I'm attending the meeting.  Traffic studies have been done and they're presenting the city's plan of action. Inquiring minds want to know.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swna/CB4B5079-071C-415E-9535-9B512E255A9F%40yahoo.com.

Laura Stone

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Oct 4, 2024, 1:47:55 PMOct 4
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I think speed bumbs are too noisy. Why can't Greenwood be made a one way street?

Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 3:39:07 PMOct 4
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The apartment complex is done and I myself have an issue with the exit aligning with Greenwood but it done and it is there and it is not moving,  so in order to solve the problem we have this program in place to make the street safe.

I have spoken with the majority of the residents and this is an ongoing problem on the street with multiple speeders.  The speed study results conducted by the city have shown there were more than just a few speeders.

sylviaw...@aol.com

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Oct 4, 2024, 3:41:58 PMOct 4
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Has anyone talked to the post office, Young High Flats, and the Antique Store?  I thought Jill's suggestion was very important for Hedgeapple.  Especially since none of the houses face Hedgeapple yet they seem to get to vote to put humps in the road there.  
And just think of the mail trucks being bumping along.  And we think the KAT bus now goes down Hedgeapple.
Sylvia

Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 3:44:24 PMOct 4
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In response to speed bumps being to noisy I'm sorry but we're do you live?  I hear dogs all day as well as cars, mowers, music people from the park and I could go on however if I hear something that's going to slow someone down and keep all the kids that walk home everyday safe,  im all for it.

This street will never be a one way and this has been asked over and over again.  Also if you think that anyone obeys one ways I would hope you would watch the do not enter that was put up going into young high flats.  

Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 3:50:24 PMOct 4
to 'sylviawoodsknox@aol.com' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association
Yes I have spoken to John Sheppard of Young High flats and he was going to have the property manager sign the original petition in favor of keeping our neighborhood safe.  Also I spoke with Robert Monday and he was in favor as well and said he wanted to be a good neighbor.  However this process only requires me to petition neighbors that live on the affected streets. 

The problem you have is with the process and I have followed the process.

The neighbors that have road frontage on Hedgeapple have the right to vote.

Sylvia,  you do not have the right to vote and I'm glad you don't.  You are a part of the speeding problem.

Nicole Penry

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Oct 4, 2024, 3:57:15 PMOct 4
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Agreed, Tim! I live on Woodlawn directly across from Greenwood. We have had 2 people this year come to us and ask if our cameras show the road because of people speeding down and entering Woodlawn without stopping, causing accidents. Both times, the person who caused the accident didn’t stop.  I take my daughter to school every morning and I fear for the children waking from the apartments to the middle school! It’s bad at all hours of the day, but particularly rush hour.

Something needs to be done on both Greenwood and Woodlawn!

On Oct 4, 2024, at 14:44, 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association <sw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 4:08:24 PMOct 4
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Nicole,

Thank you so much for speaking out and sharing.  Back in January we had our kick off meeting and Woodlawn was included as one of the streets needing something done.  We were told that an internal committee said that Woodlawn could not proceed with this process.

I was disappointed because it is not safe.  There are small children crossing that road everyday to walk home from school.  I called the middle about it and they said there was nothing they could do because the apartments they are walking to is within one mile from the school.

It's a shame that you hear things like their noisy and take the consideration of the post office over the safety of children.

If you can please come to our meeting on Tuesday.

Thanks,

Tim Saults

sylviaw...@aol.com

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Oct 4, 2024, 4:16:17 PMOct 4
to 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association
We all are unhappy with the alignment of the apartment exit.  SWNA members were very interested in the alignment, and we were lied to and they should be made to fix the exit to make them turn left and difficult to go down Greenwood.  

And I thought they were not supposed to enter on Hedgeapple, only exit.  That would at least solve the Greenwood problem.
Sylvia


Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 4:53:11 PMOct 4
to 'sylviawoodsknox@aol.com' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association
Sylvia,

Gaslighting.  This has been talked about over and over again.  Maybe you can chair the committee to get that fixed although I highly doubt that.  Also will you be the one to tell everyone everyday to obey the do not enter.  And that would not solve the problem no ma'am.  Most speeders come out of the exit only flying.

What we are doing is finding a real solution to the problem not just complaining.  

Nicole Penry

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Oct 4, 2024, 5:19:29 PMOct 4
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I plan to be there! I begged the school system to let my child know ride the bus when she was at the middle school! The intersections they have to cross are insane!

I plan to be vocal for change.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2024, at 15:53, 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association <sw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Tim Saults

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Oct 4, 2024, 5:30:08 PMOct 4
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Thank you!  Thank you!

Sean Giacomini

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Oct 8, 2024, 7:41:08 AMOct 8
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I want to be clear—the Traffic Calming Committee has some significant issues. 

 Only 51% of petitioned individuals need to sign, and these individuals don’t even have to be homeowners. There’s no verification process in place, which means anyone could forge 100% of the signatures, yet the process would still move forward, resulting in speed bumps. 

 Additionally, almost all the speed bumps currently installed lack proper legal signage to indicate their presence, which is a serious safety hazard. Speed bumps should either be designed so that vehicles can drive over them at the posted speed limit without losing control, or they must be properly marked.

 There is also no mechanism for removing speed bumps once they are installed, even if a majority of the community changes their mind. If 51% of addresses sign a petition, speed bumps are installed. Even if 100% later agree they were a mistake, the speed bumps cannot be removed under any circumstance. 

 The goals of these traffic-calming initiatives appear to deprioritize more essential infrastructure improvements, like sidewalks. By implementing speed bumps, the city can avoid meeting the criteria for a sidewalk study, potentially delaying the installation of sidewalks for at least another 15 years. 

 I’ve experienced this firsthand when I lived on Adelia Avenue before moving to Taylor Road. The speed bumps added several minutes to my commute, and drivers continued to speed between them. I still didn’t feel safe walking the road and would have preferred sidewalks. 

 Please seriously consider these issues at tonight’s meeting. If you accept speed bumps for your street, expect fewer police presence, continued speeding issues, and delayed progress on other important infrastructure needs.

Respectfully, 
Sean Giacomini


gary jacobs

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Oct 8, 2024, 11:24:25 AMOct 8
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Sean, I am replying to your email about significant issues! This is a City program and if you have an issue you need to contact the City or Debbie Sharp or Hayley Howard, on the process. 
If you don't live or walk on Greenwood, Hedgeapple, or Busbee, then this doesn't affect you.
I have walked and drove with Tim in this process that has been almost 2 years in the making, talking to the neighbors, getting signatures and delivering flyers.
I also see 10 to 15 children walk down our streets to go to school on roads that don't have sidewalks, like Woodlawn and Greenwood, walking to and from school. You might want to drive this during school hours as you may see them walking in the grass to avoid cars.
The sidewalks will not be installed for years, if even in my life time, you can ask Tommy about that, as he has more info.
I have never seen you at a meeting as Tim sends this out to all of you and if its that important to you maybe you should take the time to show up!
As far as Talor Rd. that you live on the process has been very time consuming, and requires alot of work, and I'm not sure that you or anyone that lives on that street would put all that much effort and time to follow the entire process through, as again it's been almost 2 years and maybe another 1 or 2 years before it could actually be complete.
Hope to see any of you tonight as again Hayley will be there that can answer any questions you may have and that's also a part of the process.

Thanks and have a great day!
Gary Jacobs 

Tim Saults

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Oct 8, 2024, 2:28:50 PMOct 8
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I will also be very clear in this email.

Myself and Nick Ryan were the ones who collected petitions for the affected roads.  I take this as a personal attack on my character by you making the statement that the petitions were not legitimate and could have been forged.  How dare you make that statement. I don't know you and you don't know me.  I spoke with every neighbor who signed my petition and it is verifiable.

Also I have a tenant who has rented from me for ten years and she has the right to vote. It is my house but it is her home where she lives.  Just because someone rents does not mean they do not get to have a voice.  

I will be speaking will city leaders to clarify the nasty narratives in this email much I feel is spreading false information and lies.  I will be emailing clarification and statements in the future.

Also voting is not a part of the process at this meeting.  There will be no vote.  This meeting is to explain the plan to the neighbors.

I keep hearing that there are issues with the process and really people that have issues with this process don't want speed bumps and can not present a reason good enough not to have them.  I want to be safe and I want the children walking home everyday to be safe as well. 


You absolutely will not receive a thank you from me,

Traffic Calming committee chair,

Tim Saults

Sean Giacomini

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Oct 8, 2024, 3:06:46 PMOct 8
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Dear Tim, 

 Thank you for reaching out and sharing your concerns. I understand this issue is deeply personal to you, and I appreciate the time and effort you have put into organizing the petition. 

 First, I want to clarify that my intention was never to personally attack anyone involved in the petition process. If my words came across that way, I sincerely apologize. My primary concern is ensuring that the process is transparent and fair for everyone in the community. I appreciate your assurance that the signatures collected are verifiable, and that will help alleviate any concerns. 

 Regarding your tenant, I completely agree that renters deserve a voice in decisions that affect their homes and community. I did not mean to suggest otherwise and fully support their right to participate. 

 As for the upcoming meeting, thank you for clarifying the purpose. I look forward to the discussion and hope it will be an opportunity for us to come together as neighbors to ensure the best outcome for our community, particularly the safety of our streets.

 It’s also important to note that this meeting will not stop the installation of speed bumps on our streets. Once speed bumps are added, the city typically does not consider future sidewalk installation, as seen in the Island Home subdivision. This is a critical aspect that residents should be aware of as we move forward.

 Additionally, can you provide an example of any street in Knoxville where sidewalks were added after speed bumps were installed? From my understanding, this has not been the case, and it’s a key concern for many residents who would prefer sidewalks for pedestrian safety. 

 I value your commitment to this cause and welcome any further clarification or conversation. Let’s work together for the benefit of everyone involved.


Respectfully, 
Sean Giacomini


Tim Saults

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Oct 8, 2024, 3:53:46 PMOct 8
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Sean,

I think we just need to fact check all of the things that your claiming in your email first.  I don't think its fair to spread misinformation.  I won't be responding to anymore of your emails until I can verify with city leaders every piece of information in them and let everyone one know.  

If you have we have an opinion it's an opinion,  your claims seem to me that you are stating facts.  So I'll go ahead and clarify from your original email and this one with our leaders.

Dustin Moneymaker

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Oct 8, 2024, 3:54:37 PMOct 8
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I have a house on Busbee and I have yet to have anyone ask my opinion or get me to sign anything about the speed bumps. And for the record, I am highly against them. It seems as whoever is doing this petition is only getting a few signatures of people that are for them and disregarding the rest, so I myself think I’m going to start a petition for the people that are against it and according to everyone’s logic that’s for this, as long as I have more signatures against it than for it then the speed should be irrelevant. For some reason, there’s a couple people that think they speak for everyone else and for the most part I have let this go as most of things that these people are talking about arguing about are ridiculous and have no bearing on me but the speed bumps, especially on Busbee greatly affect me.
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 8, 2024, at 3:06 PM, Sean Giacomini <seg...@gmail.com> wrote:



Dustin Moneymaker

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Oct 8, 2024, 3:57:24 PMOct 8
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I also want to be very clear that the petition and signatures in my opinion are in fact, legitimate, and you can take it as an attack on your character to take it, but the fact is if you don’t ask everybody and you only get signatures of people that are for it then the whole thing is pointless
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 8, 2024, at 3:54 PM, Dustin Moneymaker <dustinmo...@aol.com> wrote:

I have a house on Busbee and I have yet to have anyone ask my opinion or get me to sign anything about the speed bumps. And for the record, I am highly against them. It seems as whoever is doing this petition is only getting a few signatures of people that are for them and disregarding the rest, so I myself think I’m going to start a petition for the people that are against it and according to everyone’s logic that’s for this, as long as I have more signatures against it than for it then the speed should be irrelevant. For some reason, there’s a couple people that think they speak for everyone else and for the most part I have let this go as most of things that these people are talking about arguing about are ridiculous and have no bearing on me but the speed bumps, especially on Busbee greatly affect me.

Tim Saults

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Oct 8, 2024, 4:00:45 PMOct 8
to 'Dustin Moneymaker' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association
This doesn't make any sense to me.

Tim Saults

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Oct 8, 2024, 4:05:27 PMOct 8
to 'Dustin Moneymaker' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association
Dustin,

Your Mom came to the kickoff meeting and expressed her concerns.  The petitions gathered on your street were actually more than 51 percent in favor.  Nick was the resident who collected there.

If you want to collect petitions for whatever cause you want go for it.  It's a lot of hard work.

We went by the process and if you have a concern with the process then it's the city you need to talk to.  Again we followed the process.

Dustin Moneymaker

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Oct 8, 2024, 4:10:43 PMOct 8
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So as you just said, she expressed her concerns against it, and since she is against it, no one came to her house or my house on Busby to get us to sign this petition because obviously we’re against it so how is that fair at all?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 8, 2024, at 4:05 PM, 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association <sw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Dustin Moneymaker

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Oct 8, 2024, 4:12:42 PMOct 8
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It’s fine, this is like arguing against a brick wall. I will just express my concerns at the meeting.
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 8, 2024, at 4:05 PM, 'Tim Saults' via South Woodlawn Neighborhood Association <sw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Sean Giacomini

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Oct 8, 2024, 4:48:39 PMOct 8
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Tim, I’m glad to hear that you plan to fact-check this with your city leaders. Having gone through this process when I lived on Adelia, I thought my experience might provide some helpful insight.

 The number of signatures on the petition or who signed it isn’t as critical as it may seem. In fact, there’s no such thing as a “counter petition” in this process. All it takes for speed bumps to be approved is getting signatures from half of the households on the street. There is no formal verification of the signatures. Once the city has this approval, they can proceed with installing the speed bumps. Unfortunately, when speed bumps are in place, it often eliminates the option for future sidewalk installations, as the city considers the traffic calming issue resolved. 

 It only takes one individual to collect the signatures, and if someone wanted to, they could sign all of them without any real oversight to stop them. That’s why I’ve raised objections to this system—it’s vulnerable to misuse or abuse. However, this is the system currently in place. 

 We raised the same concerns on Adelia, as we wanted sidewalks rather than speed bumps. 

 I hope this gives you a clearer understanding and helps guide the questions you ask your leaders.
Respectfully, 
Sean Giacomini


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