Ciclop or Piclop Scanner

[Gyrobot]

I have wanted a desktop scanner for a while now but not wanting to pay anything like the £700+ price tag of the Makerbot's Digitizer.

It seems that to build one seems the obvious low cost choice and there are some options available:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1545315380/atlas-3d-the-3d-scanner-you-print-and-build-yourse

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:159981

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:52850

I have decided on the "Ciclop" by bq, it has a good mix of printed parts, cheap and simple hardware, and free and open source software to control the scanning process so here are the useful links :

Hardware :

http://diwo.bq.com/en/ciclop-released-2/

https://github.com/bq/ciclop

Firmware :

https://github.com/bq/horus-fw

Software :

http://diwo.bq.com/en/horus-released/

There seems to be three options when it comes to the electronics/camera/laser control.

1. Standard Arduino + Logitec C270 HD webcam + motor driver shield.
2. bq ZUM-BT328 + Logitec C270 HD webcam + bq ZUM-SCAN
3. Raspberry Pi + Camera module + motor driver shield

Points to note : Whilst the bq products are ordinarily expensive and the bq ZUM-SCAN is not quite available yet, I am in negotiation with them for a quote, I will know Monday. The ZUM-SCAN  is a motor shield and laser controller in one, but I assume for the other options, we can drive the laser modules (3-5V, 5mW) direct from a Pi or an Arduino or do they need a "driver"?

The advantage of a Raspberry Pi and camera is that we already have one, the camera is higher definition (1080p) than the Logitec (720p), and it still fits in the electronics bay in the Ciclop. The scanning process happens via a web server so no PC tethering is required. Our camera is the no-ir filter version so I don't know if this affects the visibility of the laser wavelength. A Pi camera adaptor will need to be designed to fill the space left left for the Logitec in the Ciclop.

The software for the Raspberry Pi is called FreeLSS :

http://www.freelss.org/

https://github.com/hairu/freelss

I have all of the threaded rod/nuts/washers etc and I am printing the parts out now. I have the line laser diodes in the post as well as the large bearing. I guess the bearing could also be printed : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:650155

Current cost is £33 for the 2 x lasers and bearing, everything else so far is freely donated by me.

So the decision is Ciclop or Piclop, anyone else have any thoughts?

Cheers,

Steve.

[Robert Longbottom]

I think this would be good tool to have available at the Hackspace because I expect a few people would like to have a play with one, but no enough to buy / make their own.  So I'd be happy to see some Hackspace funds go towards this.

As for Arduino vs Raspberry Pi, on balance I think I'd say Raspberry Pi + Pi Camera.  I'm very impressed with the quality of the Pi camera having used one on my 3d printer, and I expect this will be the main thing that influences the quality of the scan.  The Pi route would also make it a stand-alone "appliance", which is nice, just turn in on and set it going.  I wouldn't imagine using the NoIR version would make any difference over the non-NoIR version.  Both will be able to see the laser line.

The laser line diodes should be simple enough to drive from the Pi (assuming they are similar to what I've used on the quadcopter challenge gate, which I think they are).  They just need 5V.  You'll need some kind of transistor to enable the Pi to switch them on and off because you can't run much current through the digital IO pins on the Pi - it looks like FreeLSS uses a ULN2003 chip (which is just multiple transistors in a single chip) and these are easy to get hold of.  (Note you'd need to do the same using an Arduino, or pretty much any other embedded controller.  This will be one of the things that the ZUM-SCAN will be doing.)

As for the motor controller, it looks like you need a stepper driver like the ones from the RAMPS boards.

On 22/02/2015 12:30, Gyrobot wrote:

I have wanted a desktop scanner for a while now but not wanting to pay anything like the £700+ price tag of the Makerbot's Digitizer.

It seems that to build one seems the obvious low cost choice and there are some options available:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1545315380/atlas-3d-the-3d-scanner-you-print-and-build-yourse

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:159981

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:52850

I have decided on the "Ciclop" by bq, it has a good mix of printed parts, cheap and simple hardware, and free and open source software to control the scanning process so here are the useful links :

Hardware :

http://diwo.bq.com/en/ciclop-released-2/

https://github.com/bq/ciclop

Firmware :

https://github.com/bq/horus-fw

Software :

http://diwo.bq.com/en/horus-released/

There seems to be three options when it comes to the electronics/camera/laser control.

1. Standard Arduino + Logitec C270 HD webcam + motor driver shield.
2. bq ZUM-BT328 + Logitec C270 HD webcam + bq ZUM-SCAN
3. Raspberry Pi + Camera module + motor driver shield

Points to note : Whilst the bq products are ordinarily expensive and the bq ZUM-SCAN is not quite available yet, I am in negotiation with them for a quote, I will know Monday. The ZUM-SCAN  is a motor shield and laser controller in one, but I assume for the other options, we can drive the laser modules (3-5V, 5mW) direct from a Pi or an Arduino or do they need a "driver"?

The advantage of a Raspberry Pi and camera is that we already have one, the camera is higher definition (1080p) than the Logitec (730p), and it still fits in the electronics bay in the Ciclop. The scanning process happens via a web server so no PC tethering is required. The camera is the no-ir filter version so I don't know if this affects the visibility of the laser wavelength. A Pi camera adaptor will need to be designed to fill the space left left for the Logitec in the Ciclop.

The software for the Raspberry Pi is called FreeLSS :

http://www.freelss.org/

https://github.com/hairu/freelss

I have all of the threaded rod/nuts/washers etc and I am printing the parts out now. I have the line laser diodes in the post as well as the large bearing. I guess the bearing could also be printed : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:650155

Current cost is £33 for the 2 x lasers and bearing, everything else is freely donated by me.

So the decision is Ciclop or Piclop, anyone else have any thoughts?

Cheers,

Steve.

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[Jamie Osborne]

Wow! That all sounds awesome!

If it's an issue, the Pi camera did come with the IR filter IIRC. Or a standard webcam could be used. Would the extra resolution of the pi cam give a similar resolution boost the scanned images?

Pi or Arduino seems the obvious route for cost/availability and for others being able to repeat the project.  For a web server the raspberry pi offers a lot of flexibility, and allows for other software and remote access alongside the main scanning software.

If you go with the Pi, I have an original model B spare. (I also have some Arduino Pro Minis, but I expect you'll want something with the standard shield headers.)

Jamie

[Gyrobot]

I am thinking the Pi too and maybe utilise the one already used for the printer, but a spare would be more standalone. Maybe the "Piclop" could face the printer while a print is running to capture the timelapse like it's big brother. It would be like the biggest Pi case ever!!!

I think we concluded that increasing the camera resolution would result in a finer detailed scan. However it may be subject to software settings too.

I have a spare Nema 17 stepper motor although I think there is already a stepper motor at the Hackspace which may work.

Do we need a driver shield or is there one of these already?

[Robert Longbottom]

Yes, given the only connection required to the 3d printer is USB, you could easily use the same Pi.  You'd loose the ability to have the PiFace on the Pi one you build it into the Piclop, because you need the GPIO port, but it's not doing anything essential anyway.

There is a(t least one) stepper in the cupboard that we could try and use.

I'm not sure if we ended up with a spare stepper driver after all the 3d Printer ones were replaced or not...

[Jamie Osborne]

Using the printer's Pi is definitely doable, though I think whatever tether there is between it and the scanner should be a quick fit style connector, so using the printer sans scanner is easy and this would aid setup if you don't have the two tethered permanently.

Love the idea of scanning the print (and "closing the loop"!)

Some I/O should be available still with some way to access via the pi face perhaps - how many I/O and of which type do you need?

Jamie

[Damian Axford]

What Rob said, plus:

• great idea
• would love to have a play at the hackspace
  
• RPi + cam seems the best route
• you can always add a red light filter to reduce unwanted wavelengths if it becomes an issue, but it probably won't be
• if the ULN2003 seems overkill, a couple of cheapo transistors would do - stick them and a stepper driver on a bit of stripboard = job done
• given there are several spare PIs around, I'd go for sep dedicated unit - at least during development
• on the subject of "closing the loop" - it would be amusing to pass something repeatedly through a scan/print cycle to see how it degrades (a gnome perhaps?)...  would be a fun visual illustration of the process as well (stick it in the museum window?)

:D

[Gyrobot]

Some Piclop piccys from Wednesday. It seems either the Pi model A or the Pi2 (just) will fit. Jamie has decided that we will build up the sd card image and test it on either of his Pi's and if the Pi2 offers a faster scan time, then we will suggest the purchase of one of these. If there is no difference, then the model A would be the cheaper option. If the whole FreeLSS software is then a pile of rubbish then we can go down the Arduino/Horus route instead (Option 1 above) without purchasing a Pi. The next thing is to make up the motor/laser driver board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gyrobot]

Motor Driver Board.

 

 

I have been reading through the Kickstarter campaign updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1545315380/atlas-3d-the-3d-scanner-you-print-and-build-yourse/posts/1139192)

 

The new motor drivers (DRV8834) are low voltage so they seem to make life a bit simpler by removing a regulator. Here is a stripboard layout for a standard Pololu driver, this could be built on a Pi-HAT or -- erm stripboard. I think this item is a necessary make, it effectively replaces the ZUM-SCAN board and I guess we can still use it with an Arduino should we decide Horus is the better scanning approach.

 

However if we want to go for the

[Robert Longbottom]

Looks really smart.

--

[Robert Longbottom]

The only thing I've not worked out in that circuit is what the two 100ohm variable resistors (top right) are doing...  Any ideas?

On 27 February 2015 08:14:24 Gyrobot <sp...@gyrobot.co.uk> wrote:

Motor Driver Board.

 

 

I have been reading through the Kickstarter campaign updates (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1545315380/atlas-3d-the-3d-scanner-you-print-and-build-yourse/posts/1139192)

 

The new motor drivers (DRV8834) are low voltage so they seem to make life a bit simpler by removing the 12V to 5V regulator. Here is a stripboard layout for a standard Pololu driver, this could be built on a Pi-HAT or -- erm stripboard. I think this item is a necessary make, it effectively replaces the ZUM-SCAN board and I guess we can still use it with an Arduino should we decide Horus is the better scanning approach.

 

However if we want to go for the

--

[Gyrobot]

They are each connected to a Laser output, would they vary the laser intensity?

They are also on the prototype main board :

But not on the latest version using the DRV8834 board :

 

[Robert Longbottom]

Yes, I guess that must be what they are doing.  Just seems a bit odd, but I guess it could be useful if the line is too wide / bright.

For the low voltage stepper driver does that mean you run the stepper at 5V?  Does that mean we need a "special" 5V stepper motor, or can we still just the 12V one from the cupboard?

[Jamie Osborne]

Was just wondering the same thing... And how useful these drivers would be for a 3D printer..

Jamie

[Robert Longbottom]

I think they'd be no use whatsoever for a 3d printer. I figure there you
are moving a larger load / mass and trying to go faster so 12V is a
definite advantage.

Slowly turning a table on a support bearing is relatively lightweight so 5V
is fine and its also convenient since the rest of the electronics runs on 5V.

[Jamie Osborne]

And also the heated bed and hot end would take longer and/or require more current.

However, a small [xyz based machine] that could be used for other light weight duties (such as plotting circuit boards) could be cool. Though probably too much hassle to set up as a 3d printer with all its overhead in cost/weight/power/complexity.

Still liking these 5v drivers for something though... Etch resist (only) project?

Jamie

[Gyrobot]

I asked a couple of questions on the Google+ community "ATLAS 3D", which is a community for the building of the Atlas FreeLSS scanner that I linked to in my first post. There is a member on there by the name of Bill Owen who is blogging his build of a Raspberry Pi powered Piclop scanner.

 

 

These were my 2 questions : 

1. Is the RPi 2 a worthwhile upgrade for the scanning or will the A+ be a cheaper alternative if it's only sole use is for this scanner? We have both available so time will tell but any experienced direction is most welcome.
2. Has anyone done any reviews between the FreeLSS and the bq Horus software yet because the Arduino+Logitech camera route could still be pursued if the software warrants it?

 

And here is Bill's response : 

• If your lasers are focusable, you'll probably want to have the lens part sticking out of the front of the clamp, so you can adjust it. You may also need to make your Pi camera focusable by removing the glue on the lens.
• There are big differences in the way Horus and FreeLSS handle calibration. It looks like Horus does everything automatically with a special scan target; FreeLSS does it all manually. You will need to be able to make the laser lines exactly vertical (perpendicular to the turntable) and make them cross the center of the table. You will also need to make the camera point at the center and have it be vertical. The Ciclop design doesn't allow for those adjustments, which is why I re-did the camera tower and laser holder parts.
• FreeLSS also needs measurements of the spacing between turntable, camera and lasers. You need to know the distance between the camera centerline and the laser line in the focal plane of the camera, which is going to be difficult to measure with the lasers forward of the camera location. That was another reason for the redesign.
• Regarding CPU speed, I have been running on the Pi 2 with no issues, but I haven't done a direct comparison with the original B because I would need to re-do the electronics. Given the small difference in price, I'd always lean towards the highest performance option.
• Finally, I think Horus should run on the Pi, since it's just Python and is already supported on Linux. However, it's going to expect a very different interface to the hardware and camera, and I certainly don't have the skills to adapt it. 

 

Which is great information, with regards to FreeLSS and due to the lack of "auto calibration" that Horus has with it's scannable chequered pattern, the following dimensions need to be entered into the FreeLSS settings page.

 

 

 

 

[Jamie Osborne]

It looks like the Horus software makes things much easier to setup, but the measurements (with his mods) seem manageable.

Any large Python code base is going to perform better with more CPU power; even if it's just the initial startup. So the Raspi2 would be good for running Horus, but may be overkill for FreeLSS which is written in C++.

You didn't ask the most important question though... Where did he buy that red filament from?! (Scanning through his posts, I see the black is from makergeeks.com).

Jamie

--

[Jamie Osborne]

There's plenty of red from that supplier - though it's US based, so shipping for a single reel is $25. However, it gets fairly cheap for 4 at $40, and 8 at $60. Bound to get a nasty import tax bill on that though, wonder if there's any UK distributers for those brands?

Jamie

[Gyrobot]

I am now leaning back towards the Arduino and Horus. Not to say that the Pi version and FreeLSS can't be developed in unison, I think ultimately we may end up with both and we can make a direct comparison.

However at the moment an Arduino UNO and CNC shield V3.0 is only £4.88 and £3.04 resp, and the Logitech C270 webcam is £15-£17, oh + a Pololu Driver.

Someone has already modified the Horus Firmware mapping to use the UNO pin outs for the CNC shield V3 instead of the standard ZUM-SCAN board. The CNC shield V3 can drive the lasers too. Arduino Nano has also been used but I guess the shield is a little trickier to connect.

Some more background info here : https://github.com/bq/ciclop/issues/5

[Jamie Osborne]

That is cheap, do you have a link for those items?

Maybe we'll end up with a similar situation to the printer, where it is a standalone + x setup, where x is your PC tethered directly, or wirelessly via a Raspberry Pi web server (with the ability for use directly with the Pi as an upgrade for later).

This setup would be more amenable to piggybacking on the printer's Pi, as it wouldn't be dependent on it to work. This may even justify the purchase of a Raspi2 for them to share? ;) ;)

Jamie

[Gyrobot]

"Uno" : http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Arduino-Compatible-R3-UNO-ATmega16U2-AVR-USB-Board-p-68537.html

CNC Shield V3 : http://www.banggood.com/3D-Printer-A4988-Drive-Extension-Board-CNC-Shield-V3-For-Arduino-p-947755.html

[jmeosbn .]

Awesome. If you don't mind adding one for me I'll have one; are you buying the drivers from banggood too?

Might me worth buying a complete set (inc. Uno) for the hackspace to play with too?

Jamie Osborne

[jmeosbn .]

P.S. I won't need the Uno - assuming it'll work with the Leonardo (should do).

Hmm... might be worth splitting into smaller orders - though bg seem like it'll be ok. :/

Jamie Osborne

[jmeosbn .]

Just realised we only need one driver and we have at least one spare. :)

Also, 5Pcs A4988 Stepper Motor Driver is out of stock for a week or so.

Jamie Osborne

[Damian Axford]

bargain - if we're doing a joint order, put me down for two of each...  

[Jess Robinson]

We got some PS2 (usb) webcams recently, they're flogging them in Game for £10 or so, pretty good webcams, worth trying one of those instead of logitech?

Jess

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[Gyrobot]

The complete Banggood order was shipped yesterday (06/03/2015)

[Jamie Osborne]

Nice!

Jamie

On 7 Mar 2015, at 12:26, Gyrobot <sp...@gyrobot.co.uk> wrote:

The complete Banggood order was shipped yesterday (06/03/2015)

--

[Gyrobot]

The Banggood order has landed.

UNO
CNC V3 shield
Polulou Drivers

Money please when you are Hackspace next.

[Damian Axford]

W00p... How much do I owe? :)

[jmeosbn .]

Ditto!

Jamie Osborne

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Damian Axford <dam...@axford.me.uk> wrote:

W00p... How much do I owe? :)

[Gyrobot]

Re: Bangood Order

So I seem to have forgot who ordered what and in what quantity although I know it was right at the time and I wish I wrote it down.

So I have :

7 x Arduino UNO @ £4.65

6 x CNC V3 Shields @ £2.85

15 x Pololou Drivers @ £1.25

Anyone remember their orders?

[jmeosbn .]

Hmm... I definitely wanted a shield - not sure about the others; will have to see what's left!

Hackspace wanted at least one Uno and probably just one shield. I *think* we may have wanted one or two pololus to play with on the shield and act as secondary spares.

Sorry, my memory is a bit useless - hopefully others can remember.

Do you at least know what you wanted? That should be taken out to help us deduce the rest!!

Jamie Osborne

[Damian Axford]

Pretty sure i had 2x Uno, 2x shields and 6x pololu
:)

[Gyrobot]

The Ciclop scanner fired up for the first time, lasers and motor worked and it managed to do a full 360 scan but without calibration nothing was captured.

Video evidence : https://youtu.be/UFnoQZW4h5s
Modified firmware has been uploaded to Github : https://github.com/snhack/horus-fw

[Damian Axford]

woo hoo - it works...  and points to the cheapo chinese arduino/cnc bits :)

[Jiri Pavlik]

Gyrobot Hello, I want to ask what the AC adapter to power the shield CNC , I used AC 12V 1A , cnc shield exploded , would connect the adapter , thank you for your reply

Dne čtvrtek 26. března 2015 13:51:47 UTC+1 Gyrobot napsal(a):

[Gyrobot]

Hi Jiri,

I used a 12V 3A DC supply :

The CNC shield gets it's power from the 5V DC from the UNO. The 12-36V input on the CNC board is to power the stepper motor.

I hope this helps.

Steve.

[Jiri Pavlik]

Gyrobot Ahoj, díky za info, přikládám fotografii nehody

DNE sobota 25. dubna 2015 20:59:11 UTC + 2 Gyrobot napsal (a):

Ahoj Jiří,

Použil jsem napájení 12V 3A DC:

CNC štít dostane to moc z 5V DC z OSN. 12-36V vstup na CNC desky je pro napájení krokového motoru.

Doufám, že to pomůže.

Steve. V Sobota 25.duben 2015 19:08:26 UTC + 1, Jiří Pavlík napsal:

Gyrobot Dobrý den, chci se zeptat, co AC adaptér k napájení štítu CNC, jsem použil AC 12V 1A, cnc štít explodoval, by se připojit adaptér, děkuji za Vaši odpověď

DNE Čtvrtek 26. Března 2015 13:51:47 UTC + 1 Gyrobot napsal (a):

Ciclop skener vystřelil na poprvé, lasery a motor pracoval, a to se podařilo provést úplnou kontrolu 360, ale bez kalibrace nic byl zajat. Video důkaz: https://youtu.be/UFnoQZW4h5s Upravený firmware byl nahrán na GitHub: https://github.com/snhack/ Horus-FW

[Roberto De Sanctis]

Please, could you post schematics of uno / cnc shield / logitech camera connections ? your UNO was duemilenove or a simple UNO? (because duemilenove had integrated usb port hub instead of simple UNO that usb is for TTL/serial comm.

Thanks,

[Gyrobot]

Hi Roberto,

More info can be found here :

http://www.thingiverse.com/make:127783

Logitec camera plugs into your PC.

Our modified firmware can be found here : https://github.com/snhack/horus-fw

UNO has onboard USB : https://www.arduino.cc/en/main/arduinoBoardUno, ours is a clone.

Hope this helps,

Steve.