Meeting minutes, 2014-10-14

[Jess Robinson]

Hi all,

Meeting minutes are on the wiki at
https://github.com/snhack/snhack.github.com/wiki/Planning-Organisation-2014-10-14,
please add/amend anything I missed!

If you want to keep track of what's going on on the wiki, you can get an
RSS/Atom feed at: https://github.com/snhack/snhack.github.com/wiki.atom

I've added some "categories" for this google group, which annoyingly makes
the front page of the group look a bit empty, as I've yet to find the
button for "Add topic to category", any ideas? You can still see all the
topics with the "show all topics" button top right.

Jess

[Jamie Osborne]

Oo.. that does make things look empty! The “show all topics” link isn’t available once you select a category and find it’s empty.. this could be quite confusing. It looks like a tags interface, so I just removed the tag to show all; however, there doesn’t seem to be a way to make an ‘All’ category and have it match any/no tag.

Regards,

Jamie Osborne

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "swindon-hackspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Damian Axford]

Looks like only the author of a Post/thread can add it to a category - just tried it on one of mine....  you get an "Add to category" link under the post title

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Jamie Osborne]

I’m waiting to see how this affects email - perhaps we’ll see "[shs-cat] Re: blah blah blah”.

Not that it makes much difference, except for filtering. Oh, actually I hope it truncates category names or omits them to avoid “losing” the subject due to truncation.

Regards,

Jamie Osborne

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com.

[Jess Robinson]

Or not.. I'm seeing them everywhere now I have my eyes open :)

Jess

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "swindon-hackspace" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Gyrobot]

It seems anyone can add an existing topic to a category discussion, but to ease the workload a bit can I suggest that you assign a category to as many topics you hav started as possible?

You can use the filters to filter only the topics that you have started.

However can I suggest some more categories :

Introductions - Where new members to the group can reveal themselves.

Projects - Where project related posts can be categorised.

Events - Posts relating to event suggestions, or post event info/feedback, e.g Oggcamp.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com.

[Damian Axford]

2nd that and the additional categories proposed.  Will do mine today.

[Jess Robinson]

You may.. I'm fairly sure I flipped the toggle for "anyone can add
categories", so help yourself..

Jess

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014, Gyrobot wrote:

> It seems anyone can add an existing topic to a category discussion, but to
> ease the workload a bit can I suggest that you assign a category to as many
> topics you hav started as possible?
>
> You can use the filters to filter only the topics that you have started.
>
> However can I suggest some more categories :
>
> Introductions - Where new members to the group can reveal themselves.
> Projects - Where project related posts can be categorised.
> Events - Posts relating to event suggestions, or post event info/feedback,
> e.g Oggcamp.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 15 October 2014 18:05:22 UTC+1, Damian Axford wrote:
>>
>> Looks like only the author of a Post/thread can add it to a category -
>> just tried it on one of mine.... you get an "Add to category" link under
>> the post title
>>
>> On Wednesday, 15 October 2014 17:59:57 UTC+1, jmeosbn wrote:
>>>
>>> Oo.. that does make things look empty! The “show all topics” link isn’t
>>> available once you select a category and find it’s empty.. this could be
>>> quite confusing. It looks like a tags interface, so I just removed the tag
>>> to show all; however, there doesn’t seem to be a way to make an ‘All’
>>> category and have it match any/no tag.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jamie Osborne
>>>
>>> On 15 October 2014 at 17:03:48, Jess Robinson (

>>> cast...@desert-island.me.uk <javascript:>) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Meeting minutes are on the wiki at
>>>
>>> https://github.com/snhack/snhack.github.com/wiki/Planning-Organisation-2014-10-14,
>>>
>>> please add/amend anything I missed!
>>>
>>> If you want to keep track of what's going on on the wiki, you can get an
>>> RSS/Atom feed at: https://github.com/snhack/snhack.github.com/wiki.atom
>>>
>>> I've added some "categories" for this google group, which annoyingly
>>> makes
>>> the front page of the group look a bit empty, as I've yet to find the
>>> button for "Add topic to category", any ideas? You can still see all the
>>> topics with the "show all topics" button top right.
>>>
>>> Jess
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "swindon-hackspace" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

>>> email to swindon-hacksp...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

[Jess Robinson]

Sadly I don't see any way for email in to be stuck in a default category,
so it might be rather useless :( Replies in the google productforums for
this have amounted to "yeah it doesn't do that, your solution is to
disallow email post creating and only allow the web interface" which as
far as I'm concerned would make it all a bit pointless..


Jess

[Gyrobot]

I think Jess, this toggle, allows anyone to add an existing topic to an existing category (which I can do), but I cannot seem to add a new discussion category?

[Jess Robinson]

Who knows, its not exactly unambiguously named: "Change Any Tag or Category" .. anyway I'll add them.

Jess

[Gyrobot]

Instructions, should have been Introductions ;-)

Instructions may still be relevant, but I guess we have a wiki for that.

[Jamie Osborne]

I second this - the mobile groups site is useless, so I rarely use anything but email.

Jamie

[Robert Longbottom]

Good minutes write up. I can't think of anything else that we discussed


On 15 October 2014 17:03:50 "Jess Robinson" <cast...@desert-island.me.uk>
wrote:

[Jamie Osborne]

At some point the outcome of these meetings should be formalised into something we can reference. Is the wiki best, or the documentation repo?

One thing worth clarifying is the consensus between at least three people (of the six).

If there are more than three people making a decision (on purchasing for example), they still need to agree - just that there needs to be at least three people involved in the discussion for it to be acted upon.

i.e. It's not a vote and there's no possibility of a tie. Things that should be voted on, should give all members a vote. It may well be that discussion of a large purchase (spend all the monies on a super duper new 3D printer - or build a laser cutter instead), results in an agreement to put it out to vote? (I think someone suggested an online voting system a while back..)

Jamie

[James Mastros]

I've changed the tag that gets prepended to emails to [snhack] to match our branding elsewhere.  As far as going multitopic, the best way I see is still to create multiple independent google groups -- anything that doesn't work well -- or at least acceptably -- for both email and web is going to leave some people out.

[Jamie Osborne]

Good call on [snhack]. :)

If you mean create a new google group, then that risks somebody finding the wrong one - unless the boring org one is private (which is what some hackspaces and other projects do).

Looking at all the "@fred ..." stuff that we have to "invent" on the fly to try and keep track of individual threads within a topic, then something that addresses that would be awesome. (I know a lot of IRC clients have built on handling of this, such as alerts when you are "mentioned" by somebody.)

Hmm.. Github issues handle this (with notifications). I have mentioned before, about filing issues against a dedicated "Hackspace Org" repo for things like "Stores consumables running low", or "No formal process for inducting new members". Shame we can't file issues against the wiki repo..

I think we need to think about/explore this a bit more and discuss IRL.

Jamie

[Damian Axford]

have fleshed out the Events page a bit further - should be self-explanatory - feedback, etc welcome

https://github.com/snhack/snhack.github.com/wiki/Hackspace-Events

@Jess - would be great if you could build out the Make:Shift:Do page

@Steve - do I remember you suggesting a Catia workshop at some point?  want to add it to the list?

[Robert Longbottom]

Cool.  Another vote for the laser cutter workshop :-)

Also added the demo days we did in the museum a while back with 3d printers to the list of completed events.

[Gyrobot]

@Damian, it was a Meshmixer workshop, and I have added it to the Wiki.

[jmeosbn .]

@steve - Are you going to do 3d printing workshop still? (have we decided on a common toolchain everyone can use. FreeCAD/OpenSCAD etc..)

We should also think about (and note) which workshops - if any - are candidates to run on a different evening..

Jamie Osborne

[Gyrobot]

I think the Makeshift Do is sort of a mini-version, we'll see how that goes.

The docs are still here if anyone is interested in taking a look : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RkAYZ1GLd7bsfK9uRwOlm5LWyv6wDV8ci6JKAYuYE50/edit?usp=sharing

[Damian Axford]

Cool - Jess et al can prob re-use a cut-down version of the course structure for the Make:Shift:Do sessions...  

[jmeosbn .]

@damian: just saw your 3of6 page - having a separate page is ideal for clarifying the language used in the minutes, but needing at least three present of the six named for any agreement to be reached (e.g. about purchasing tools) is different from a ballot (in which all members should have a vote, and disagreement is to be expected).

The minutes of the meeting reads like the former, which is appropriate for buying tools, consumables, and project supplies: "any three of "The Six" together could make decisions for the hackspace".  While the 3of6 page reads more like the latter - which is more appropriate for major decisions.

Jamie Osborne

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Damian Axford <dam...@axford.me.uk> wrote:

Cool - Jess et al can prob re-use a cut-down version of the course structure for the Make:Shift:Do sessions...  

--

[jmeosbn .]

Ok, so I took a stab at rewording it to clarify what I believe is the intent:

3 of 6 refers to the simplified decision making process for the Hackspace, primarily focused on committing funds for routine purchases. It requires that, for a decision to reach agreement (e.g. in order to spend money!), at least 3 of the 6 core Hackspace members (Jamie, Rob, Steve, Jess, James and Damian) must be part of the discussion. 

Note: the above does not exclude other members from taking part in such discussions.

I used "must be part of" in preference to the less concise "be present (either in person, or online/email/text/phone/hologram)".

The note after is probably not needed, but I didn't want other members to think this is intended to exclude anybody. Decisions are often made at the hackspace sessions or online, that include any member wanting to pitch in - but for an agreement to be made and carried out, at least 3 of those involved must be "named members" (which has been the de facto process in the past).

Jamie Osborne

[jmeosbn .]

Well, this is really hard to word clearly but concisely!

I added another optional clarification, without getting much more wordy: that is, the online group be the "lowest bar" of discussion for reaching agreement. This may be a pain, should we unexpectedly need to buy something when at least three of us are present in person but not at a scheduled meeting - this is unlikely though, so long as we agree that "events, workshops, and hack the space!" evenings are a scheduled meeting?

How is "present" defined via email though? In person, it's easy to know that someone is present in a meeting - even if they don't say anything!

 

3 of 6 refers to the simplified decision making process for the Hackspace, primarily focused on committing funds for routine purchases. It requires that a discussion can only reach agreement, when held in a usual forum (weekly session, scheduled meeting, or online group), with at least 3 of the 6 core Hackspace members (Jamie, Rob, Steve, Jess, James and Damian) present.

Note: the above does not exclude other members from taking part in such discussions.

Jamie Osborne

[Jess Robinson]

Neat, I didn't know you thought of doing one.

Looks like a good plan to me. While I'd like to do something like that for the Open Day, we'd need downstairs, and sign-ups and.. maybe I'm just a wimp ;)

Jess

[Damian Axford]

@Jamie - wow - you think about this organisational stuff waaay too much :)  but I agree with your comments/edits

[Jamie Osborne]

Yeah, that is my problem! And it waaay bad in non-real time! ;)

Cheers - if we put down guidelines, it's better to avoid misunderstandings now.

Any views on the "usual forum" part, and the note for other members? Any reason not to include them?

Jamie

On 17 Oct 2014, at 22:27, Damian Axford <dam...@axford.me.uk> wrote:

@Jamie - wow - you think about this organisational stuff waaay too much :)  but I agree with your comments/edits

--

[Robert Longbottom]

Yeah, I think your latest version is good.

The "usual forum" bit means that everyone has the chance to get involved either by being present or by reading the forums, which is how it should be.

Id like to think that the note for other members isn't necessary and that anyone should always feel like they can speak up and get involved in anything, but its good to have it there as a reminder.

Rob.

[Jamie Osborne]

Cheers, I agree but just in case someone's not sure I thought it worth adding.

Will make the changes now.

Jamie

[Jamie Osborne]

Okay, it's up, but if anyone can improve on the words "routine", and "present" (to include taking part in an email thread), then they could definitely be improved.

Hmm.. I guess "taking part" could fit, if nobody else has any ideas..

Jamie

On 17 Oct 2014, at 23:16, Robert Longbottom <Robe...@iname.com> wrote:

[jmeosbn]

Following on from our meeting wrt use of a public place for non-email based "transient" dialogue (à la IRC) that could be more chat like than email, gitter provides "free public chat rooms for open source repositories on GitHub.".

They use your existing Github login and use the same model as github (only pay for private chat rooms/rooms linked to private repos).  They also support markdown, syntax highlighting and can be hooked up to a number of services including Jenkins and Travis CI.

We can have rooms for each public repo in snhack, as well as one for snhack itself - and there's even irc.gitter.im and some apps (the mac app is just a web app wrapper - but 10/10 for the .dmg art).

[jmeosbn .]

Oops, typo/broken URL for https://gitter.im/snhack. 

They even provide a nice shiny badge for a repo's readme file.

Jamie Osborne

--