One more trailering question

[Erik Schmalz]

At least I HOPE this is the last. And apologies if this is the second email asking the same question. I wrote one this morning and my server failed, so I’m not sure if it went through or not.

In any case, how much weight is safe to haul inside the Swift? I’m not looking for it to hold 72" tool boxes or a spare cow, but would fat Seitech dolly wheels be ok in addition to sails, the boom, the foils, and small dynamic wheels? Those big wheels are pretty heavy and awkward- I need to get smaller ones.

I’m working on a solution to taking both a Force 5 and the SS on the same trailer. The hulls aren’t so much of a problem, but all of the associated crap is suprisingly difficult.

-erik

[rha...@xmission.com]

Form me, as little as possible. Since there isn't a full transom, not
much will stay there. But then I've got a box trailer for the boat
gear and a truck for the camping gear.

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[William Scheumann]

Erik,
Abrasion is your enemy, so everything on the boat should be fastened down, cushioned or wrapped to prevent damage to the finish or worse. There are double-decker open trailers for transporting two boats, but the box trailers are the best setup for all of the gear and multiple boats. If you have room on the front of your trailer and won’t exceed the tongue weight limit, install a gear box to load foils, wheels, tiller, etc. I used a car roof rack and a small Yacht Club trailer to haul USA020 on the cradle up and down the East Coast a couple of times and had good success with the trailering. I hope this helps.

Bill Scheumann


Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 24, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Erik Schmalz <thist...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> At least I HOPE this is the last. And apologies if this is the second email asking the same question. I wrote one this morning and my server failed, so I’m not sure if it went through or not.

>
> In any case, how much weight is safe to haul inside the Swift? I’m not looking for it to hold 72" tool boxes or a spare cow, but would fat Seitech dolly wheels be ok in addition to sails, the boom, the foils, and small dynamic wheels? Those big wheels are pretty heavy and awkward- I need to get smaller ones.
>
> I’m working on a solution to taking both a Force 5 and the SS on the same trailer. The hulls aren’t so much of a problem, but all of the associated crap is suprisingly difficult.
>
> -erik
>

[Philip Ryan]

With any trailering and any boat, less weight is better - no matter what other characteristics are involved. No matter how you try to justify it, extra weight degrades any laminate faster than not having it there. The reality is that a well designed and well built boat will not really wear out from sailing use unless it is used regularly for many years in very rough conditions by a very aggressive sailor, but a single heavily loaded drive on a bad road will do permanent, irreversible damage to the boat.

I put only the boom in the boat and I only do that if necessary. I travel with an old 3 series BMW 2 door sedan. That's a really small car. And I put all the sailing gear, all the camping gear, all the spares, and all the repair materials in the car and it's roof box even if it means that I have to take out the extra seats. That's how strongly I feel about travelling with extra weight in the boat.

Just another opinion - Philip

[Erik Schmalz]

I was afraid that you were going to say that. I do wrap everything in bed comforters and the trailer is set up to ride as softly as possible (removed spring leaves, balanced radial tires on alloy wheels, padded cradles), but I know that only goes so far. 

I have a relatively large car, but the problem is that my situation has me transporting the boats to/from the lake once per year. The lake is 8hrs away and I spend 5-6 weeks there, so my trip includes two sailboats, two kayaks (on the roof), everything for 6 weeks of living, and a dog, so space is at a premium. 

With a BMW 3 series, I assume you’re using an open trailer. Do you travel with the boat covered?

Bill, I appreciate the use of enclosed trailers, but ones light enough to tow comfortably with a car are prohibitively expensive to me, and storage is sort of impossible. My trailer with two boats and all of the extra stuff should come in under 1500lbs and it fits in my two car garage WITH two cars. At various times I‘ve looked at dolly-on-trailer situations, but I feel a lot better with the boats securely supported on their wood cradles. I also don’t have to load/unload very often so the extra work of putting boats on dollies from the trailer is negligible,

Thanks for the replies. I’ll continue looking for ways to transport the wheels on the trailer and/or get lighter ones. I think I have a way for the dollies themselves to be on the trailer with minimal weight (on the F5). When I figure all of this stuff out and get some paint on it, I’ll post pics. If nothing else, it sure will look cool (or crazy) going down the road! :-)

-erik

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[Philip Ryan]

Hmm... That's a proper load of stuff. I'd say to put anything that will fit, into the kayaks on the roof  - treat them like a roof box. They don't need to support rig loads like a sailboat in any meaningful way. As long as they are roto molded, and not the cedar strip art form, that is the concession to "loading up the boat" that I would make. The kayaks should leave enough room on the rack for the boom.

The interesting thing about the trailer, is that the closer you take it to its maximum load, the smoother it will ride. If you focus all the extra weight just barely forward of the axle, the tongue weight stays light, but that tends not to be very easy to do due to the shape of a sailboat. The only trailer loading caution is to avoid putting any mass at a substantial distance aft of the axle. On a light trailer, that will make it fish tail very badly on the highway, sometimes dangerously. I had a bad load once that was only manageable after I took the base of the mast (heavier) and put it forward. Other than that the position was the same. I figure that the difference was about 10 lbs moved from back to front, but with a 22 ft mast on a 10 ft trailer, that made the difference between almost losing the trailer and having it follow the car quietly.

As for the dolly/trailer style system, A good one makes loading and launching twice as fast and easy as not having one. A bad system makes it just more of a pain. So far, nobody in the Swift fleet has a proper dolly/trailer set up. The box trailer guys make the Seitech dolly look as if it is good, but the only proper functional type I have seen on an open trailer is the Rapide, A-frame style dolly with a matching trailer. It makes tying the boat up for the road or rigging it much easier because it is so much lower to the ground once it is off the trailer. Getting it off and on the trailer is the easiest part, taking less than a minute from sitting on the ground to road ready or vice versa. This is due to the simple clip and pin system that holds the dolley to the trailer.

I'm just full of opinions...-  Philip

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swiftsolo/D4E3EC7D-D2AE-4C5E-AB32-864D8438BB5E%40comcast.net.

[Erik Schmalz]

In theory, I know about weight in the rear of trailers, but with this one, I wasn’t thinking it at all, mostly due to the already fairly heavy tongue weight.  Thanks for the reminder. I *should* be good, since the boat weights are almost all forward of the axle (the axle is adjusted all the way forward, but it’s still a powerboat trailer, made for a heavy engine hanging off the back), the spare is on the tongue, the mast butt will be forward, etc. Plus my over-complicated car has electronic trailer anti-sway control, but no, I’m not going to rely on that….

I think I’ve tried to fit the big wheels in the more open kayak already and failed, but I’ll check again. They definitely don’t fit in the sea kayak. I may switch out the axles and wheels to the slightly smaller ones from my Thistle dolly for this summer though. That should help. If I could just get my wife to take her own, I could fit the roof box on with my kayak and most of the problems would be solved (or changed to “I’ve been driving for 5hrs and just noticed that the kayak isn’t on the roof anymore. I heard a bump three hours ago but didn’t check. What do I do?”)

I have boat-from-trailer-to-dolly thing down pretty well. The Force 5 can go directly to/from since it’s higher- it takes maybe 5mins including assembling the dolly. The SS has to go to the grass first because it sits so low in the trailer (on purpose). I hope to get around that with a wide roller in the rear of the trailer, but if necessary (unloading in a parking lot or gravel for some reason), I can also take the front piece off of the dolly and go direct. It still only take a few minutes, but requires more care and strength. 

Ok, time to go back and stare at the trailer again looking for good options. It goes back to the welder one more time to address some issues, so maybe I can have him add some mounts for things too.

-erik

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[William Scheumann]

Erik,

Check out this video for building your double-decker lightweight trailer:

https://www.offcenterharbor.com/videos/boat-trailers-double-decker/

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Erik Schmalz <thist...@comcast.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swiftsolo/6F1E0284-8365-4427-885E-7FC908266F95%40comcast.net.

[Erik Schmalz]

Thanks. I’ve seen that and I think just about everything on the internet having to do with double-decker trailers, but I appreciate the link. I’m always looking for ideas. I did consider doing something more along those lines, but I’ve never been one for easy when complicated, crazy, and more-expensive-than-I-intend is an option. 

After a lot of searching for a trailer perfectly sized for my existing SS cradle, I bought a Shoreland’r trailer last year and had a welder add some supports to my specs for the cradle and a front support. It works really well for the SS, imo- wide, low, and light. After the summer, I designed a folding second level and he worked on it over the winter. I just finished setting it up for the F5 and the SS mast, and now it’s back with the welder to address a problem that I knew would come up (upper level sway), but needed both boats on the trailer to check clearances first. It just needs a couple of cross pieces, and it should be good. 

Effectively, it’s a $2000 solution to transporting an $800 boat, but I never said I was smart.

I hope to leave with it on July 11th, so I should have some finished pics before that and I’ll send them here and/or post them to the Fb group. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swiftsolo/61F0738E-F5D2-48CA-8634-DDE0590B32FD%40gmail.com.

[Erik Schmalz]

Thanks. I’ve seen that and I think just about everything on the internet having to do with double-decker trailers, but I appreciate the link. I’m always looking for ideas. I did consider doing something more along those lines, but I’ve never been one for easy when complicated, crazy, and more-expensive-than-I-intend is an option. 

After a lot of searching for a trailer perfectly sized for my existing SS cradle, I bought a Shoreland’r trailer last year and had a welder add some supports to my specs for the cradle and a front support. It works really well for the SS, imo- wide, low, and light. After the summer, I designed a folding second level and he worked on it over the winter. I just finished setting it up for the F5 and the SS mast, and now it’s back with the welder to address a problem that I knew would come up (upper level sway), but needed both boats on the trailer to check clearances first. It just needs a couple of cross pieces, and it should be good. 

Effectively, it’s a $2000 solution to transporting an $800 boat, but I never said I was smart.

I hope to leave with it on July 11th, so I should have some finished pics before that and I’ll send them here and/or post them to the Fb group. 

On Jun 25, 2020, at 14:16, William Scheumann <wfsch...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swiftsolo/61F0738E-F5D2-48CA-8634-DDE0590B32FD%40gmail.com.

[William Scheumann]

Erik,

Pictures will inspire others.... invert the F5 hull for added down force.  Keep the Stick in the Air!

Bill Scheumann

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Erik Schmalz <thist...@comcast.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swiftsolo/FB2965EA-E94B-4584-90EF-4D93C990E9F3%40comcast.net.