The mall wars

[Robert J Gunter]

OK, I am not going to go off the deep end on this one.  Please bear with me.  We have a mall of around 500,000 sq ft smack dab in the middle of our town of ~25,000 individuals.  As part of the lease that brought us Walmart, no part of this mall can be used by a “competitor” of Walmart.  In the local area, there are two or 3 other “malls”.  It is apparent that Oak Ridge has lost the Mall war.  So I think we can safely say, that the OR mall will never again be a prototypical mall.  Also, since we lost out on the development that became Turkey Creek, we have lost that battle too.  “No Soup”er Target for YOU!

 

What to do.  Now we have an aggressive plan called the Oak Ridge City Center which is described here:

 

http://oakridgecitycenter.com/downtown-project.html

 

The problem is, that a town the size of OR is not likely to be able to pull off 450,000 sq ft of retail space as described therein.  At least not in what can be described as the foreseeable future.  There is too much competition for this sort of thing (westtown, turkey creek, easttown).  So, why not solve a lot of our “municipal” needs by moving it all into the mall.  For a fraction of what it would cost to build a preschool, the emory valley center, a senior center, and a school admin building, we could buy the mall (based on what the guy who owns it paid, and the current market value of big empty commercial space).  Inside this mall, we could move all the city services, the school administration, the preschool, the library, the Senior Center, etc.

 

The then vacated city properties can be sold off to whomever would buy them and used as commercial space.  The mall could be kept intact (roof on), providing an indoor play area for rainy and cold days.  Lots of area for people to walk, a city center that people would gravitate to for city services, and the unused space could be leased out to shops and café’s that would be drawn to the space by all the pedestrial traffic.  Maybe even-dare I say, a convention space….

 

In 30 years (for 30 years will come and go), when the other malls and shopping centers have become old hat, run down shells of what they were, perhaps we will build an admin building and open up the space for the Oak Ridge City Center plan.  Of course there is nothing in this plan that would stop city center development from continuing in all that land around the mall.

 

 

[Jan Lyons]

Considering how few things don’t compete with Walmart, the use of the mall site is essentially limited to non-profit functions like government and education (or maybe an auto service center or another hotel if someone can beat Walmart to those ideas).  Unfortunately, your hoped for café would probably also compete with Walmart – Panera Bread was almost forbidden.  
City services would make good use of the mall space and allow the then surplus city properties to be sold for new tax revenue-producing ventures without having to worry about the Walmart restriction. Better to use this space constructively than to just let it slowly deteriorate and become an even bigger eyesore (like the Alexander Inn).

[Julio Ibanez]

Robert,

That's a very creative way around it! I don't know if anyone else
will go for it, but it's certainly better than the empty shell that's
sitting there now.

Also, how long's that stupid lease with WalMart? An alternate, more
cynical idea would be to put some waste processing center on that
site. Preferably right behind the Walmart and make them a little more
willing to leave or cooperate. :)

On Nov 11, 10:24 am, Jan Lyons <jlyons....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Considering how few things don¹t compete with Walmart, the use of the mall
> site is essentially limited to non-profit functions like government and
> education (or maybe an auto service center or another hotel if someone can
> beat Walmart to those ideas).  Unfortunately, your hoped for café would
> probably also compete with Walmart ­ Panera Bread was almost forbidden.
> City services would make good use of the mall space and allow the then
> surplus city properties to be sold for new tax revenue-producing ventures
> without having to worry about the Walmart restriction. Better to use this
> space constructively than to just let it slowly deteriorate and become an
> even bigger eyesore (like the Alexander Inn).
>

> > say, a convention spaceŠ.

>
> > In 30 years (for 30 years will come and go), when the other malls and shopping
> > centers have become old hat, run down shells of what they were, perhaps we
> > will build an admin building and open up the space for the Oak Ridge City
> > Center plan.  Of course there is nothing in this plan that would stop city

> > center development from continuing in all that land around the mall.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[lostscotsman]

Or make any left hand turns into the Walmart lot a toll road, charge 50c per visit until a more equitable accommodation can be worked out. Men marched asleep... --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Julio Ibanez <j.ibz....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Robert J Gunter]

Funny idea on waste processing. We do have lots of that around here. The lease is like 99 years. I do think moving all city services in there is a good idea. It is not like they have to stay there forever...

Orenv.

-----Original Message-----
From: sustain-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sustain-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Julio Ibanez
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:40 AM
To: Sustain Oak Ridge
Subject: Re: The mall wars

[Ellen Smith]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in Oak Ridge regarding the
relationship of Wal-Mart and the Oak Ridge City Center (former mall)
property.

Wal-Mart does not have a lease -- it owns its building and the land on
which it sits.

Wal-Mart bought its property from Crown American (the former owner of
the mall). Oak Ridge city government had no role in, nor approval
authority over, the sale transaction. Wal-Mart's deed includes several
restrictions on the use of the adjacent land that was still held by
Crown American. Most notably, the deed prevents the development of
another big-box discount store, such as a Super Target.

The City Center property is privately owned by an owner that has plans
for redeveloping it as a multi-tenant retail site. The owner is not
believed to be interested in dumping the property for some other use.

According to the owner, Wal-Mart supports the current development plan.

Without having inside information, it should be pretty clear that the
chief hurdle to redevelopment right now is money. The developer needs
both firm tenant commitments and committed financing before the project
can start. In the current economic climate, both of these are not easy
to obtain.

Ellen Smith

[Elijah]

I really like the idea of moving the city offices inside the mall, but
the last time I checked, they had stopped air conditioning the central
part of the mall and it is in terrible disrepair from water damage,
etc. The repair cost may possibly match or be higher than the cost to
just build a new one. Don't get me wrong, I like the one that still
stands and used to appreciate the indoor space. Just a thought...

[Julio Ibanez]

I don't know if anyone really had the ownership of the mall pegged as
public property, Ellen. It's just with restrictive covenants limiting
retail, it seems that the only thing not competing with Walmart would
be government services. Or waste management. :)

Still, I'm glad to hear that Walmart's "onboard" with the potential
redevelopment. Let's hope they stay that way.

Also, I understand why Walmart would specifiy such a lease. It's
definitely in their best interest. But how do Walmart and Target
coexist in Turkey Creek while we get stuck with a non-compete? Not
directed at you, necessarily, Ellen, as you made it clear it was a
private transaction. But still...

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Robert J Gunter]

One assumes the city was in some way involved in the negotiations. I would also assume that the restrictions carry forward to the new owner as part of the sale agreement. Is there a time line the city is willing to endure on mall redevelopment? Has the city ever considered trying to purchase the property and to move city services in there? I realize this is a bit radical of an approach, but it would solve many of the cities problems, and perhaps free up the owner to pursue something likely to make them money.

It seems to me that unless things change significantly in Oak Ridge (and perhaps monumentally), it is unlikely that the Mall's retail space will ever be filled to an economical point. It could happen in 15-20 years maybe, assuming huge development to our North (which is unlikely), and Turkey creek's shine starts to fade (assuming the owners let it). Should the city buy the space today, they could quite easily sell it back to someone in the future when it becomes more economically viable. They could spend the time designing a new ivory palace to house all the city functions.

I would never dream the current owner would "dump" the property. I would imagine they would be willing to settle for a fair market value. Seems like they got a deal on it anyway, and the future prospects are uncertain.

Orenv