Is sustainability movement a 4-legged table with one leg missing?

[BobbyG]

Roundtable questions--some that have been bothering me these past 18
months about the movt for sustainability...

http://www.biodiversecity.com/blog/

b.g.
now with more Facebook exposure:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1546262918&ref=nf#!/profile.php?ref=profile&id=100000445834272

[Solin, Jeremy]

I generally agree, Bobby. Except that, in general, the mainstream and corporate "sustainability" movement is missing more than just the 4th leg. Most of what is being called sustainability is environmental management light. I think these easy "green" steps are good entry points, but without a deeper vision of a prosperous world for all humans and healthy, diverse natural communities, they are just that - light environmental actions.
________________________________________
From: sustain-cent...@googlegroups.com [sustain-cent...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of BobbyG [land...@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:56 PM
To: Sustain Central Wisconsin
Subject: Is sustainability movement a 4-legged table with one leg missing?

http://www.biodiversecity.com/blog/

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[D Wright Esq & Ann H Wright]

Bobby:
I don't totally know where to start on your post because it has so much in
it. First off, I think you need to can the idea that "The Natural Step" has
any relevance in this country. I recently went through it and realized that
what flies in Sweden has no relevance here. 9.2 million people, homogeneous,
socialistic, no huge wage separations, 45% power from 10 nukes 45% from
hydroelectric, well educated, Country size of California 25% of
population--on and on and on.

Also keep in mind that virtually nothing we are doing is truly sustainable
in the long run. The average American has no idea what this sustainable
thing really is and if they knew they would freak out. Everyone here wants
the American Dream and most have it. To imply that it has to go, is not
within their world view. May of the working poor have no clue what
sustainability is, many are tea baggers, they are the uninformed, the angry.
You and I might be the poor working people but we are also the well-educated
poor. This may give us some vision and some insight but that will not help
all the other poor.

At the roundtable we will still hear talks on sustainability, on sustainable
growth, sustainable development. You and I know these will all be
oxymoronic. In the future there will not be material growth but just
decline. We will, by default, have to drop into something that is
sustainable and it will not be met with open arms and the joy of being in
this idyllic, environmentally pure surroundings of happy eco types flitting
through fields.

This will more than likely be a rather nasty slug fest and sustainability
will only come after it is imposed on us by some greater force---and it won't
be the government; it will be good old mother nature. Anything we can now
learn about taking care of ourselves, our families, and our community is
very worthwhile and we should work hard at it. At times, it may not seem
like we are getting anywhere, or loosing ground, but it will pay off.

I wouldn't spent too much time worrying about the poor. Think mostly about
your community, your family and yourself. When the day comes that the
government can't keep social service's money coming to them, all hell will
break lose. They will not be interested in healthy food but just getting
food at the cheapest possible price.

Many of your questions are very far reaching and almost not possible to
answer---and they will not be answered. Frankly, it is too late. Think very
locally, forget globally. D Wright

[BobbyG]

On Feb 11, 10:53 am, "D Wright Esq & Ann H Wright" <dkwri...@wi-
net.com> wrote:
> Bobby:

>First off, I think you need to can the idea that "The Natural Step" has
> any relevance in this country. I recently went through it and realized that
> what flies in Sweden has no relevance here. 9.2 million people, homogeneous,
> socialistic, no huge wage separations, 45% power from 10 nukes 45% from
> hydroelectric, well educated, Country size of California 25% of
> population--on and on and on.

any
D,
same thing I commented on the blog: Natural Step is the world-model
or paradigm that's in most extensive use in our state. So if you see
a deficiency in application, you have to address that thru the model
most being referenced. Also, that thing that really attracted me to
the Nat. Step WAS the #4 system condition. Without that, I'd have had
zero interest in it; it would be just another technocratic solution
along with those advanced by people like Stewart Brand et al.

>
> I wouldn't spent too much time worrying about the poor. Think mostly about
> your community, your family and yourself.

Well, I'm self-identifying as one of the poor, so I'm thinking of my
community, family & self. Just read the latest AARP magazine, which
has a long article about the enormous number of retirement-aged people
falling into the black hole I call OtherAmerica. These folks are
being alien-ated from their wealth and former way of life,
figuratively herded into a sort of alien District 9 (see the movie
District 9 for the reference).

>Frankly, it is too late. Think very
> locally, forget globally. D Wright

Well, I agree it is too late to prevent the second round of the
economic crisis; the PIIGS countries in Europe (Portugal, Ireland,
Italy, Greece 'n Spain) or the STUPID countries (Spain, Turkey, UK,
Portugal, Ireland and Dubai), and these states in the US are leading
us headlong into it: Calif., Nev., Ariz., New Jersey, NewYork,
Wisconsin, Illinois, maybe Texas and a few others on the insolvency
track.Along with the ongoing mortgage crisis wherein the US taxpayer
has assumed practically all obligations onto the books of Fannie Mae/
Freddie Mac, leaving the banks to invest their 0% money from the Fed
into proprietary program-trading strategies in commodities, futures,
advanced options trades, further Credit Default Swaps on currencies,
mortgages, companies, etc, and all sorts of other things that will
have to be "unwound" some ay. .

But it's hard to keep people motivated enough to stay organized if
everyone thinks the whole business is just too late. That leads to a
kind of paralysis. I don't have a paralyzing negative outlook on the
future, but I do try to have a reality-based outlook.

Shoutout from Dist. 9,

b.g.