Convert surround tracks to binaural

[Alejandro Valdez]

HOW? :-)

Well, a time ago I listened some binaural tracks that impressed me much, basically it feels a little like quad, but using stereo.

So, I'm wondering if anyone know a way to convert a surround track to a binaural track (preserving the effects from the original quad tracks).

Any hint?

[River161]

Zeerround has tested out some stereo-to-binaural methods using
Plogue. The problem is that neither of us are convinced by binaural
technology in general. You can add some extra spatial stuff and width
in there, but then it's a matter of what kinds of headphones you're
using, etc. I dunno.....I've never been impressed. Also wasn't blown
away by the "3D60" on the new Orb/Gilmour, or by the older "QSound"
recordings.

Going from surround to binaural would involve properly folding back
the surround into stereo. It's possible that we could come up with
something, and I'll bring it to Zeerround. I have my doubts as to
whether it will lead to anything too impressive. Something major will
be lost along the way is what I think.

Some modern albums incorporate some very nice ideas to width and front/
rear separation in the soundfield. One that I can remember, off the
top of my head, is the "Slumdog Millionaire" soundtrack. Those albums
also tend to be the ones that lead to the very best upmixes as well.



On Nov 20, 10:19 pm, Alejandro Valdez <alejandro.val...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> HOW? :-)
>
> Well, a time ago I listened some

> binaural<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording>tracks that

[Zeerround]

I have spent many many hours in such a pursuit.

There are VSTs, and a wrapper for dolby headphones that claim to do
this, but none of them ever worked for me.

The problem is that your brain has learned to detect where sounds come
from by a complex combination of time delay between your sounds arrive
at your ear, reflections in the environment, at the frequency response
of your (shape of) ears, head, and shoulders from different angles.

So the two big challenges are 1) you never hold your head perfectly
still, so you brain gets directionality info from how the sound
changes as you move your head and the speakers don't (unlike
headphones, which move with your head)).

2) Everybody as different shaped ears, head, and shoulders.

So, to make this really work you need a head tracking systems that
changes the sound dynamically as you move your head, and a custom Head
Response Transfer Function (HRTF) that models your bodies shape, etc.

There are high end headphone systems that do all this (several
thousands US $). I've never listened to one.

The best results I've been able to achieve was to buy some in ear
microphones and record some surround sound on those mics and then play
back the resulting stereo via headphones.

Definitely achieved the outside your head sound, but still easy to
confuse front and back due to the lack of head tracking.

The next step was to record an HRTF for myself, using the calibrated
in ear mics (very complicated) and then use that to "convolve"
surround into binaural. So far results have not been worth pursuing
further but I do agree that if it can be done it would be kind of a
holy grail of surround. You can find lots of AES IEEE, and patents for
people trying to do this.

Having said all that, it is possible that your particular HRTF maybe
closer to one of the common ones available in the aforementioned VSTs,
or maybe even dolby headphone works for you (for me, not so much).

If you've got a week or two to spare, google HRTF, convolution, DRC,
etc.

Cheers,
Z


On Nov 20, 7:19 pm, Alejandro Valdez <alejandro.val...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> HOW? :-)
>
> Well, a time ago I listened some

> binaural<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording>tracks that

[Stephen Disney]

There was an interesting  example of binaural recording

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[Stephen Disney]

There was an interesting  example of binaural recording at EPCOT when it opened.  When done right it is flat out astounding.  There is truth in what has been said as, the best example involve stuff that moves.  That said, I doubt (sorry) that any software could properly translate surround into binaural.  For binaural to be really good, you have to use the head.  I suppose you could set the head up in the sweet spot of your favorite surround environment and see how it does, but who here has a Head mic?  Likely no one.
S

[Alejandro Valdez]

Hi Zeerround, thank you for such an insightful answer, after reading your post I can see that it's kind of a difficult subject. I'll take your pointers and research a bit about RTF, convolution, DRC, etc.... just for the sake of curiosity. 

[Zeerround]

That's what the in ear mics are for. they sit right at the opening of
your ear canal, right where the output of ear buds would be.

There's another guy that swears by mics right on the ear drum, and has
built some (third link below) as well as a casting of his head to hold
them.

Let me see if I still have some links laying around.

http://medi.uni-oldenburg.de/hrir/
http://www.head-case.org/forums/headphones/785-headcase-stax-thread-346.html#post386946
http://www.davidgriesinger.com/
http://convolver.sourceforge.net/configegs.html 2nd to last example
etc. etc.



On Nov 21, 4:44 pm, Stephen Disney <sthunderroc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There was an interesting  example of binaural recording at EPCOT when it

> opened.  When done right it is flat out astounding.  There is truth in what
> has been said as, the best example involve stuff that moves.  That said, I
> doubt (sorry) that any software could properly translate surround into
> binaural.  For binaural to be really good, you have to use the head.  I
> suppose you could set the head up in the sweet spot of your favorite
> surround environment and see how it does, but who here has a Head mic?
> Likely no one.
> S
>

> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Stephen Disney <sthunderroc...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > There was an interesting  example of binaural recording
>

> >>http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Stephen Disney]

I actually have been interested in the in ear mics.  I have sound professionals binaurals of course.  I use them for recording and love them, but they don't do binaural all on their own of course.  The in ear holders look like they might work, but I didn't spring for them... though I do have a set of the croakies.  I know the head bust works.  But I imagine using one shaped from your own head would make absolute realism possible.  Very interesting links in deed!  Not to be Debbie Downer, but my only problem with this very cool work that seems to have been done is, if it is possible, wouldn't it have been done already.  Currently all we have is the likes of Dolby Headphone and they are far from convincing.  But your links have given me hope in the possibility...
S