Just got my Emotiva UMC-200

[flytomars]

After missing the UMC1 secret sale, I just couldnt resist and bought the UMC-200.

I also have the oppo BDP93 which I simply adore, so now I have 2 items highly recommended by this forum :)

Alas- from my understanding- now I wont be able to listen to SACD DSD?

Correct me if I am wrong- unless I unplug the HDMI cable physically from the oppo, I will only get PCM over the HDMI AND the analog out?

How is DSD playback possible then?

Should I have stayed with my faithful NAD pre-amplifier which was all in the analog domain but had really great sound?

[August Bleed]

NO NO NO....listen....HDMI one should be set (on the OPPO) to video only.  HDMI 2 carries the DSD signal.  IF HDMI 1 is attached to a non DSD source (TV) it will revert to PCM no matter what.  Including analog.  Try it.  When you turn the TV on, the song will stop, start again, and the light will change from SACD to PCM.  It's very simple.  HDMI 2 to receiver.  HDMI 1 to TV.  TV should be OFF.  You have to configure the Oppo correctly.  This doesn't matter whether using HDMI or analog--it will still go to PCM if it has a TV that is on connected.  So use either output from your Oppo--HDMI2 or analog.  Turn the TV off.  Enjoy DSD.  I'm assuming the UMC is a pre-amp or some such beast.  It's only the handshaking with the Oppo you have to worry about.  If the UMC is a processor then you would probably not want to bitstream to it unless you are sure it has DACs that do DSD (which I don't think they offer).  If it's a pre-amp or such you should be good to go with the instructions above.

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August
Bleed, Inc.
Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog

[August Bleed]

If you use analog ports the Oppo does the DSD to analog processing...the emotiva acts as an amp/pre amp.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:14 AM, flytomars <flyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am still not sure I understand-

The emotiva does not decode DSD via HDMI.

This means that no matter what way I connect it, if the oppo will recognize that it is connected to a non-DSD hdmi (emotiva), it will output PCM via its HDMI/ analog outs, no matter what...

[flytomars]

I know, but what if I want all supported formats (PCM, DTS MA, Dolby EX etc) to pass thru the hdmi, and only sacd DSD to pass thru the analog,

Without needing to physically unplug the HDMI cable (which will also be used for video)?

Is that possible at all? or this forums beloved combo poses a problem in DSD playback?

If I am to stay connected via the analog outs of the oppo, then my old NAD definately works better in the analog domain!

[flytomars]

In other words-

Is it possible to define some sort of a preset,

 that will turn the HDMI off so the handshake which prompts PCM will not be made?

[August Bleed]

you can do exactly that.  You don't have to physically unplug HDMI 1.  Just turn the TV off while you play SACDs.  The rest will route through HDMI just fine.  There's nothing much to change except what I outlined above for set up.

[pj-mckay]

I'm no expert but why would you want to use two HDMI ports like this? (unless maybe feeding a proper multichannel soundbar via the TV)  Wouldn't this be solved easily by simply connecting the oppo to the UMC-200 via HDMI then using the amp to distribute the Audio/Video? (and ignoring the second Oppo hdmi).  Still switch the TV off if it helps but less hassle than configuring different outputs???

ps My Denon 1909 doesn't support DSD apparently so I can't comment on that. I'm an amateur.  

[August Bleed]

Because one HDMI is a video port and has a Qdeo chip.  HDMI 2 and analog go to the cirrus chip (THE DAC).  That would be one reason.  If you want pure DSD that's what you have to do.  It sucks.  I'd think Oppo could have done it better?  Sure.  But the question was about DSD output and how to get it.  I've outlined that for you.

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[August Bleed]

If yr receiver doesn't do DSD then you would use the analog ports and just not have anything connected to the TV (ie HDMI 1) on at the time you listen to SACDs.  Nothing to configure.

[flytomars]

Ok, so this is the part that I dont understand-
Why is the dsd lost in handshake with the TV and not lost when handshaking with the emotiva?
What is the difference? (They both dont do dsd?)

[August Bleed]

It wouldnt be handshaking with the emotiva because it would be using the analog ports.  The Oppo is doing the DSD.  Good question tho.  If you used the HDMI I can guarantee it would revert to PCM of course.  It seems to be just the case with HDMI 1 tho.  Can't answer the whats and whys...you'd really have to ask Oppo's engineers why they had to kludge it together like that.

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[August Bleed]

Actually I can't really answer that as my receiver does fake DSD and convinces the Oppo it is sending pure DSD to the AVR.  So in my case the extraneous connection via HDMI 1 does have an impact on the handshaking.  I suppose if my receiver didn't have fake DSD support I'd have a better answer for you.  You may in fact have to disconnect all HDMI sources with the emotive when letting the Oppo decode.  I don't really know.  You'd have to experiment and let us know your results as my set up is different enough to make a direct comparison to give you advice impossible (or even answer yr question accurately).

[flytomars]

OK, like I feared-

Handshake disables DSD, even when I choose the direct 7.1 analog inputs and TV is turned off.

I tried shutting down both oppo and pre-pro in between, in case the oppo remembers the handshake- still no luck.

What I really dont understand is- am I the only one in this forum which has this combo and deals with this problem?

I got both the OPPO and the Emotiva based on the hype it had in this forum, and no one here has both?

Or no one cares about DSD that much?

I thought the emotiva will be a slight downgrade in terms of sound (on the analog domain, compared to my NAD),

And in turn give me more features (HDMI switching etc) -

I did not think it will also be a downgrade in usability, with something as important as DSD capability being lost!

[August Bleed]

this might be obvious but you do have sacd playback on the Oppo set to DSD?  Have you tried it with the HDMI detached?  I'm at a loss.  I'm not sure why it would influence the analog connection but it does.  Called Oppo?  No you cannot be the only one with the issue.  The Oppos that do DSD (SACD-Rs) and iso had several firmware updates before the one that disabled it.  Im wondering if the firmware on your unit is the base one--I'm not sure how you would find older firmware pre-iso disabling but that may be worth a try as well.  

[flytomars]

I have the correct unupdated firmware, and was playing DSD just fine until I replaced my pre-pro.

I know there were similar issues here in the forum, but they were solved by shutting the TV off and hence disabling the handshake-

Now I am not able to disable the handshake without physically disconnecting the HDMI cable... frustrating.

[flytomars]

Bump-
Anyone has the UMC-1 and BDP93 combo?
The UMC200 is an upgrade to the UMC1, what is the solution for DSD playback with this combo?

[RW]

I have a UMC-1 and a BDP-93.  I do not believe that the UMC-1 is capable of handling a DSD stream correctly.  You need to enable DSD playback in the Oppo's Setup menu.  Then use the Oppo's analog outputs for connection to the UMC-1's analog inputs.  This will ensure that the Oppo handles the DSD conversion to anaolg  and then passes it to the UMC-1 for output to the amplifiers.  Alternatively, you *can* direct-connect the Oppo to your amplifiers, thus eliminating the use of the UMC-1 entirely.   The Oppo has a digital volume control and basic room-correction capabilities, thus allowing it to behave as a preamp...

-RW-

[Stephen Brandon]

Just as a quick question here: I know that having DSD natively handled on your receiver/processor is something we'd all like, but is converting it to PCM and then sending it to the receiver/processor that bad? I'm asking that as an honest question, I had been led to believe in the past that it really wasn't that big a deal and/or might be basically indistinguishable anyway (and that's what I'm currently doing and it's sounded great to me).

I mean if you think the player has better DAC's than the receiver then by all means use the Analog outs, but if that's the case then you should do that anyway, even if your receiver DOES do native DSD decoding.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 AM, RW <rlwain...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a UMC-1 and a BDP-93.  I do not believe that the UMC-1 is capable of handling a DSD stream correctly.  You need to enable DSD playback in the Oppo's Setup menu.  Then use the Oppo's analog outputs for connection to the UMC-1's analog inputs.  This will ensure that the Oppo handles the DSD conversion to anaolg  and then passes it to the UMC-1 for output to the amplifiers.  Alternatively, you *can* direct-connect the Oppo to your amplifiers, thus eliminating the use of the UMC-1 entirely.   The Oppo has a digital volume control and basic room-correction capabilities, thus allowing it to behave as a preamp...

-RW-

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[flytomars]

RW-
The problem with the first option- the umc200 handshakes even when it is set to the analog 7.1 input, is the umc1 any different?
And the second option is out of the question- first of all it is not recomended to use the variable volume of the oppo. It should be used only for small trims, not as the main volume. Second - I have a much better option, which is to go back to my NAD 7.1 pre amplifier- but that would be defeating the purpose of paying 600$+250$ taxes for the umc ""upgrade""...

[RW]

IMHO, the whole DSD PCM thing is a tempest in a teapot.  They both sound great, and far better than what we've been living with for the past 50 years.  And since most speakers have distortion rates of 5 - 10%, I really cannot get worked up over the *minute* differences that exist between the various digital formats.  I say just sit back and enjoy your music and stop worrying about stuff that makes little if any difference...

-RW-

[August Bleed]

We've told you that that is because the HDMI cable is attached.  If it is not connected you will indeed get DSD over analog.  The oppo does the processing, not the emotiva.  It's a pain to unplug a single HDMI cable, granted, but that is the solution.  It can't handshake without an HDMI connection and the analog will put out DSD.  You either gotta live with PCM (which isn't bad at all even for DSD) or unplug the hdmi when playing sacd's.  We can bemoan Oppo's choices all we want but that's the way it is and was discussed on these very pages in detail quite a few times.  I'm sorry you feel slighted in some way but I would imagine that even a PCM conversion thru the emotiva will be better than what 99 percent of folks get out of their system.  Of course if you aren't using anything but really good speakers most of this will be lost on your ears anyway.  Relax.  It's just a cable to unplug or a slight difference when in PCM mode.  It's not the end of the world.  That emotiva is a nice piece of kit.

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[ROBERT COOGAN]

As I have stated, previously an EDIDID/CEC selector will probably get around this problem, so you don't need to unplug, however these devices are not cheap and I have not tested whether they would work in this instance. Worth a go if it bothers you that much, you are prepared to pay approx 100usd, and if you can return the device if neessary.

August Bleed <blee...@gmail.com> wrote:

[flytomars]

Hi all,
Thanks to all the replies-
Regarding DSD vs PCM- I am really not sure I can distinguish between them, however the general vibe that I got from this forum up until this tgread is that it DOES matter... now I am confused. Also, a friend of mine claims the bass sounds much better with DSD.
Regarding HDMI switching- thats actually a very good idea, I see many cheapo hdmi switchers with remote on ebay- they are less than 10$ - will they ruin my signal any way? Lose the audio? Degrade the video?
Thanks for all your ideas so far!