Surround in the car

[flytomars]

Hi all,

I wonder how come this issue rarely comes up in this forum-

How many of you have a surround setup in their car?

I have a surround setup in both my house and my car, and I have to admit-

Even though the home system sounds clearer and better, I enjoy my surround more in the car-

Something about the speaker placement, the intimacy of it all, being trully surrounded by the music-

I find it very involving and enjoyable.

I was wondering if anyone could advise me on buying a new 2din HU for my car.

During the begining of this millenium it seemed like the next thing-

just about every car DVD player had DTS and Dolby, and true 5.1 pre-outs.

Now I am searching for a long time and cannot find something that combines all this with a USB that can play movies with surround soundtracks.

I have about 30 DVDs full of DTS encoded surround music- without video, its something like 6-8 full albums per DVD.

If possible, I would like to transfer it all to a USB HD (for example as AVI or MKV with DTS soundtrack).

Is there a HU that fits my desires? the technology exists for several years now...

[MrMalice]

I have a single DIN HU from Sony (MEX DV2000), but the display is
poor. A 2DIN would be nice, but the lower DIN is being used by the
center speaker.

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[Paulgarfunkel]

Why do you think I am driving an Acura RL?

Sent from my iPhone

--

[mircea raibulet]

I use sony mex dv200 usig thisas a monitor http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2v3ZILia0eg

[MrMalice]

That looks economical. It displays all the video from the DVD loaded
into the Sony?

[mircea raibulet]

YES!
It's not alowed to place it on drivers side.

[lokkerman]

This is the bit were us Brits envy the US; Quad sound in a car, lol; perhaps
if I specify it in an Aston (dream, dream dream) I can have a true surround
system?

[flytomars]

I have a Citroen Xsara from 1999, what does the car has to do with anything?

I have a single din JVC which I like alot- had a clarion single din but it wasnt as robust and actually didnt sound so good.

Have a friend who has the sony, its a great HU and great value for money, only downside is its hard to navigate inside DVD-V.

I know most here probably use it with a single SACD each time,

but we prefer to compromise a bit on the quality (heck, with all the noise of driving etc..) and compile several surrounds on one DVD-V DTS.

It took me several years and lots of money and upgrades to get to the sound I like, but now every ride is bliss :)

Still surprised so little have surround in their car-

I have a full 5.1 setup with actively amplified fronts and center channel (ie each twitter and woofer gets its own amplification and equalize),

but if quad is your thing, nothing can be easier- just buy the sony or JVC single din, it has 4 amplified channel that sound great,

replace your old HU and stay with the same speakers, add rears in the trunk if you dont have already-

not too complicated, I had this setup for a year or so and its great fun.

Now I have 2 amplifier and 2 active crossovers / processotrs that take half my trunk (other half is occupied by the subwoofer :) )

Center channel is nicely placed instead of the ashtray... its a small 3.5" one but together with a morel twitter it sounds quite nice.

Front woofers are Hertz hi-energy, front twitters are Morel mt-23, back 9" are polk audio, and an audison bit1 processor to control it all.

[Robert Coogan]

Possibly but you might have to forego the ejector seat.

-----Original Message-----
From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of lokkerman
Sent: 01 November 2012 11:30 PM
To: surrou...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Surround in the car

This is the bit were us Brits envy the US; Quad sound in a car, lol; perhaps
if I specify it in an Aston (dream, dream dream) I can have a true surround
system?

-----Original Message-----
From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of MrMalice
Sent: 01 November 2012 20:05
To: surrou...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Surround in the car

[Paulgarfunkel]

The RL has the ELS 5.1 DVD-A / DTS audio system standard!

Sent from my iPhone

[lokkerman]

Flyto – every car I’ve had in the last ten years including hire cars has, come with an in –built stereo, meaning that the audio is part of the dash.

Mine is quite old but came with an in-built Bose system which sounds terrific (with in-built rear speakers ) but doesn’t do Quad.

[flytomars]

Hey lokks,

There is no such thing "in dash" that is actually a part of the dashboard-

its not welded in, even though it looks like it.

Every OEM unit is possible to remove, some require more knowledge than others.

The only reason to replace the entire dashboard is if you want to embed the speakers inside the dashboard,

and yes, I have seen some enthusiasts who actually did that :)

The only compromise when changing the OEM in dash radio is that it is not always possible to control the new HU from the steering wheel,

but this usualy has a solution using some kits sold on the internet.

In the end it comes down to how much money you are willing to put on it-

My JVC HU cost 300$, it has 4 amplified outs,

if you already have 4 speakers in the car all you need is another 100$ for a good installation and youre good to go.

If you want, you can also get a 1din amplified center channel and have a 5.0.

You dont have to have a 6 channel 150 watts zed audio leviathan together with a steve mantz designed Nakamichi 4 channel etc etc :)

[lokkerman]

Looks like you’ve got it sussed, but perhaps too much trouble for me; what I would like to get to is a big hard drive that could play without me having to change discs, now that would be good.

[Paulgarfunkel]

Drives crash discs don't. If I did not put everything on disc I would have lost my entire Mohave collection as the drive I had that stuff on did crash!

Sent from my iPhone

[flytomars]

I have a 250gb USB plugged in too, alas the only surround I can get on it is AVI with Dolby soundtrack...

[Paulgarfunkel]

They why I bought my RL. I had the TL but the sound system was more meek. The RL has it beat hands down and I heard the Infinity surround system and it was just a bit better then the TL. What you never bought a $20,000 sound system on wheels? 

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe A]

I've lusted for it for years and now I have it in two cars -- a 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee (MyGig single disc nav system) and a 2011 Mercedes CLS550 (6 disc changer). I wish I had kept tabs on sacd to DVD-a conversions now and I'm too lazy to do it myself.

[flytomars]

Hey Joe and Blackbirdr, how do you compare listening to surround in the car to home settings?

I know its apples and oranges, but with hand on your heart, which is more fun and involving?

[Paulgarfunkel]

Home hands down. While the car is good the ability to fine tune is much better at home. I can change my speaker position and I think the greater distance opens up the details of the mix.

Sent from my iPhone

--

[mircea raibulet]

In your car you can "change" central speaker position by delaying the central channel or any other channel...

[Paulgarfunkel]

Yes, but at home I can change speakers and alter the distance or speakers.

Sent from my iPhone

[flytomars]

Well. for me the situation is different-
First of all my living room is not that big that I can play with the position of the speakers.
of course the sound field is bigger than the car, but it is still small.
Second of all - the way my speakers are placed, the rears are on the same wall as the listener.
If I want to place the listener in the sweet spot, he will be sitting like an idiot in the middle of the small room-
Not possible if I want to watch TV etc, and looks silly any way.
Perhaps if I had a bigger room... but still I find it strange not abutting the sofa to the wall (how do you guys place the rears behind the listener in an equal distance to the fronts?)
And third - my car has actually more options for fine tuning as I am using a processor (which I will never use at home, as I am against all artificial alteration)
In the car I have no choice, but since I am hearing lossy formats anyway, I dont care that much-
On the other hand this gives me way more options in terms of time correction and equalization.

[Sam Edwards]

I just bought a 2013 BMW 328i with the premium DVD sound system and was very disappointed that my DVD-A's don't play. Does anybody know what will?
I'll have to wait about 10 years before I have time to convert records.
Sam

[Paulgarfunkel]

You should have brought them on the test drive. Acura and Infinity have DVD-A systems. I don't know if any other cars do yet.

Sent from my iPhone

[Neb-Maat-Re]

The Hyundai Genesis (optional) and Equus (standard) have 7.1 Lexicon systems thaplay DVD-A.  

We won't get the Genesis in Aus until 2013.

[mircea raibulet]

Guys,I have a Jeep compass[2006] and tne "indash stereo" is Boston...sadly is STEREO.I would like to "ad" somehow the Sony mex 2000 to the sistem['cause I need surround sound].....
Any ideas??

[Joe A]

Agreed with blackbirdr, while I appreciate it in-car it's much nicer at home. Cars are simply too noisy an environment. The sound stage seems spatially muddy and that's because of all that glass and furniture in a small space.

And to be honest It's inconvenient to switch discs when I have an iPhone and hard disc jukebox in the head unit. I really hate to use the convenience card as I have such general disdain for it in most circumstances.

[realafrica]

Flytomars, mate,

re: speaker placement in a small room.

I have my seating against the 'back' wall as you describe you do too. I face the disused fireplace and have my centre speaker in the fireplace raised to the height of ear level when sitting. My fronts are either side of the fire place as close to the corners as possible, also with tweeters at ear level. My rears are NOT on the back wall behind me otherwise I would have the same problem to have.
I placed my rears, also with tweeters at ear height, in the corners of the back/side walls, both speakers facing in to my sitting position  at the centre of the 'back' wall. Then I adjusted the speaker placements in the AV receiver to balance the sound. So now my 'sweet spot' is where I sit against the 'back' wall. This arrangement solves the problem, BUT with one drawback. As is common, the door to my room is in the corner and is in the way of one of those rear speakers. However, it so happens that it is still possible to easily enough pass through the door with the speaker there. I doubt it would pass the average wife factor, but I'm single now, and even so, my music comes 1st and my wives were never allowed to compromise such a solution. I could always offer them something to compensate for it, a little 'tit for tat' so to speak.
I could rehang the door to hinge on the other side too, but it has been much more simple to just leave the door fully open behind the speaker. I could remove the door and gain a couple more inches of passing through space, but I took the lazy option and it works fine for me.
BTW this arrangement would be even more simple with smaller speakers. I am running full size cabinets with 12" woofers in all four main cabinets. So one could take the door off and set the speaker back against the wall and with central heating in our houses what does it matter really that there is no door to the main living room?

[flytomars]

Hey real africa, thanks for your detailed explanation.

Luckilly im not married so can place the speakers whereever I want too :)

I still didnt understand exactly the placement of your surrounds-

The fronts and center are the same as mine, and the rears are in the same line as the listener only more spread on the X axis?

[Paulgarfunkel]

I am married and I laid claim on the fished basement as my listening area. My rears are 10 feet apart as are my fronts I sit more toward the rears and compensate with more volume in the front my lazy boy sits  2 feet from my sub. Kimber cable hangs from the ceiling to power the rears the best part is I paid almost nothing for my wire and speakers as I bought a millionaires record collection and stereo equipment from his ex! Long story but I am not paying $700 a meter for cable. 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[tim gordon]

 all of the newer Cadillac's, ATS, CTS and Escalades have optional Bose surround sound systems, that play DVD-A. I believe the head units are Pioneer based.

----- Original Message -----

From: Neb-Maat-Re

To: surrou...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 2:11 AM

Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Surround in the car

[realafrica]

Hi flytomars,

Explaining my  speaker placement with mere words is much more complicated than a sketch could show.
:lol:
Fronts are along the North wall, facing south, but toed in to point at my sweet spot at the centre of the south wall. Each surround is in a corner of the south wall, with the cab's back against either the east or west wall and so face into the sweet spot along the south wall.

----X-------x-------X----  North wall:  X = fronts, x = centre
|
|
|
|
|
|
|            S             
>______________<   South wall:  S = Sweet spot,

 > = surround facing S,         > is meant to indicate facing direction surrounds are also slightly toed towards S

S, the sweet spot is a little North of the south wall

[Rajeev Sharan]

As someone said before, Acuras have an option where you can get DVD-A capability ( and it plays DTS too) and you can buy such a car off the lot. But even my Lexus with 'Premium Sound' doesn't have this - I could have ordered one with Mark Levinson system but then I'd have to wait for several months. I thought that I'll retrofit it - sadly that hasn't worked in last 2 years :-) even though I bought all the gears that I needed. Lesson for me - in future buy a car which has DVD-A.

BTW - DVD-A in Acura sounds awesome, the gear is of high quality.

- Rajeev

[Paulgarfunkel]

FYI the RL is much better then the TL I have had both the RL plays all burned media while the TL had issues with burned dts CDs on occasion.

Sent from my iPhone

[Daun Polod]

This guy has an awesome car audio sounds system...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3bZBwhaV5A&feature=channel&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GC8LbLxAHc&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLqsJvBsdaALzmuR8BKKyLOA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHnLJo4eYKM&feature=channel&list=UL

[pj-mckay]

Probably does sound great BUT regardless of the format OPTICAL IS DEAD (At least it should be)...  It's had it's day.  Who wants to be loading CD's/DVDs in this day and age when ALL our music is on files?  Lets get with it and stop carrying a bag of optical media to the car at least.

I don't even play CDs in the house.  SACD converted to flac on the NAS (CDs ripped as flac and mp3, DVD-A converted), and played by pch-c200 media player.  I use mp3 on SD cards in  the car and get umpteen albums on something the size of a postage stamp rather than have the joy of all those CD boxes rattling about the dashboard.  I'd love a head unit that played flac though I'm not convinced by all the multi-channel stuff I've heard at home, and often just play 5 channel stereo to fill the room.

If anyone knows of a good head unit that plays flac, multichannel, DAB (recording off DAB would be handy..  love that currently), Bluetooth....    please let us all know. It really is time to embrace the new world and ditch the optical format, on everything.

[Paulgarfunkel]

Two words drive failure. Hard drives crash and they really don't like cars. I for one don't mind the optical format and since its not an option in my car without great expense I will stick to optical 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[RW]

While I enjoy the use of hard-drive/playback storage of digital files, there really are not many options available for such in the automotive world.  Additionally,  shiny discs provide a portability factor advantage.  Most of our friends - who are not nearly as "cutting edge" as we are - will have at least a DVD or Bluray player in-home.  And most of those units do not accept non-optical media. If you want to share some great surround sound music with said friends, shiny discs are the coin of the realm.

 

So, for me, shiny discs are here to stay for at least the next few years.  Plus, there is something tactile and comforting about being able to pickup a shiny disc and inserting it into the player...

 

-RW-

[Paulgarfunkel]

Bravo! But truly the disc failure issue I my main reason. And the added expense. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe A]

FWIW I had mentioned the two cars played DVD-A but it's worth mentioning -- the MyGig head unit (Jeep) is very flexible and plays all burned media (made copies of my DVD-As) whereas the head unit in the Merc is VERY fussy about burned media, almost none of it works, and I think it's more than just watermarking.  

[Paulgarfunkel]

The my gig takes lossy files in 5.1? I had a car with the my gig and it only stored mp3. Also the car was a piece of crap. I love my 05 Acura RL and I plan on driving it for the next decade and maybe beyond. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe A]

It doesn't take 5.1 files (or at least I haven't tried).  It's the NAV head unit and it does play DVD Video and Audio discs.  There is a 20gig hard drive built in which only takes MP3 and WMA from what I recall; I was disappointed it doesn't take ALAC or FLAC.  It's the RER 20 gig.  So when I need lossless I have a 240gb iPod with lossless content.  

The Merc is very inflexible and honestly somewhat behind for such an expensive car; GOOD NEWS it supports DVD-A BAD NEWS it won't play burned discs; GOOD NEWS it has an SD card reader BAD NEWS it's not SDHC and is limited to 4 GB GOOD NEWS it has built in media storage BAD NEWS it's only 4GB.  

I mentioned I've lusted after 5.1 playback in a car and was kind of surprised to see the feature now present in a 2009 and 2011 model when DVD-A is pretty much dead at least in the mainstream.

As for Acura I'm glad they've been supporting DVD-A aggressively but I don't really consider them because no RWD and no V8s, I'm a performance enthusiast.

[pj-mckay]

Have a listen to yourself first.....      and I mention this to everybody that responded so negatively to my suggestion and plea for information on more progressive head units.  I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

 

a) Nobody is talking about hard-drives in the car.

b) Many folk in this group are sharing the odd 'file' with one another.  They ain't physically handing that to a friend, or posting it in the mail.

c) Many of us have enjoyed the odd sacd rip, as a file.  I play the ISO from disc, or rip to flac/mp3;  You may decide to burn to optical but that's your choice but it's not being progressive.

d) I'll bet you dont have any idea how much it might cost and I'll bet it's not likely to be as much as you think.

e) Think about otical;  one to one relationship between location and playback.  If it's in the car, you're not playing it in the house.  If the kids have it in their room, you're not listening to it.  Files are one to many....  everyone can share it at the same time.  No looking for optical media in the kids rooms, or the car.  No opening one case to find another discc. (maybe thats just my house)

 

Lastly....   Why do I want to play a whole CD/DVD-A/SCAD when there's often a few good tracks and a pile of $hit filling it?  Why wouldn't I want to pick and choose dynamically?  Nobody suggest I burn those good tracks to a DVD/CD please, just don't.  Files have to be the new dawn and you guys can be part of it or part of history.  I want to move forward, in the same way that ripping sacd to file has been.

[Paulgarfunkel]

That's cause most of us have looked into in and the price would be astronomical. And again the drive failure especially at extreme temperatures. And we all mix files. I just dropped a bunch on a disc for my ride to the records shoe this morning. 
Sent from my iPhone

[pj-mckay]

Come on ....   Why mention the car and how long you'll keep it?    And are you really saying your rig will sound better in an 05 Accura RL than another car?   (comparison only valid with engine off, air-con off, and no traffic noise)  I've a CRV and Jetta but didn't feel it important to mention it;  Both playing mp3 from uSD; Both play CDs if I could be bothered (I can't).  I'd rather have the so called lossy sound in the car than be limited to some CDs but that's my choice.  Even the kids burn music to 2Gb SD cards at will, and plop them in from time to time. Brilliant, no hassle, plenty of choice.  

I'm looking to upgrade the Jetta to another head unit that delivers some other sound formats without optical.  Hopefully someone hare will have an idea, though I'm beginning to think this group may be better suited to folk chatting about themselves rather than the future technology coming our way. That's not a dig so please don't go flaming me for that.   I'll go look for an automotive group now too, as I'm sure many will suggest anyway.  LOL

ps  Surely that Accura has a slot to let you play around with the flexibility?  The CRV has a full PCMCIA slot.  One full adapter to multicard; insert an SD to uSD, add a  uSD card was all it took for mine.  Ours is 08 but I'd expect yours will have similar options.  Yours might even play multichannel if you're really lucky.  What model is your head unit by the way?

[Paulgarfunkel]

No flexibility, not even for an iPhone. Your not getting my point. It would cost thousands of dollars to do a non optical surround system in a car right and the hard drives systems don't like climate change as mentioned before I had the my gig system and it was shite. To date it is way too expensive to do a aftermarket system and even if you did it would have a hard time out performing the Acura system. 

And to return the not a dig portion the CRV and Jetta are Tinkertoys next to the RL.

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Daun Polod]

Why not try this whole Pioneer ODR system

http://www.highdowncaraudio.com/acatalog/Pioneer_ODR_Optical_Digital_Reference.html

or this strip down ODR

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Stage4/CD-Players/DEX-P99RS

It has lots of lots of tuning options...and let u play 4 ways,
tweeter, mid, midrange and subwoofer..best of all I plays wav files
through your USB and can connect to your Iphone...

[flytomars]

I have a feeling this thread got hi-jacked.
pj- the reason Blackbirdr mentioned his car is because it is one of the very few that comes with surround sound built in.
This thread was about surround sound in the car, not optic versus HD or lossy versus lossless or whatever.
Please stay on topic- if surround sound is not of your interest, there are about 1000 other forums dedicated to auto hi-fi.
There are only a handful of forums that deal with surround.
To answer some of the topics raised:
A HU that plays flac and surround - currently there arent any at all. Surround HU is disappearing as we speak, and flac is surprisingly unavailable anywhere, even though the technology exists for years.
This leads me to the conclusion that my next HU will either be a HU + an old processor that still has the DTS decoding abilities (alpine processor comes to mind) or-
Car-PC.
I know people here are wary regarding HD drive on the go, but I actually use currently one of those mobile HD 250giga in the car for MP3 and (alas only - ) Dolby surround.
I have been driving with it for years now and it still works fine.
If I got the car pc route- I will install a flash disk drive- these HDs can work in extreme conditions, this is where my windows installation will be-
and for the rest of the data, I will use a regular cheap mobile USB HD.
This way if the cheap HD goes- there is nothing important on it.
I have a friend with a car-PC and his HD has been working for over a year no problems whatsoever, and it is not even a flash drive..

[Joe A]

I wish there were a head unit with 5.1 preamp input or hdmi multichannel input. Then we could provide our own solutions such as a carputer.

[flytomars]

The idea behind a car-PC is to replace the whole HU alltogether-

Instead of the HU, you install a 7" monitor (for double din).

The thing that will be missing is an optical drive-

But since you can create and read ISOs from just about anything (even SACD), this eliminates the need for an optical drive...

The only drawback is it is not easy to install such a thing and requires many self-made modifications

My friend installed one in the trunk, had to re-build a double floor for it, complete with ventilation and special fans to cool the whole thing off-

This thing can be done only by someone who is not affraid of building stuff from wood or fiberglass etc on the one hand,

and with some knwoledge in soldering and butchering cables etc on the other hand.

[pj-mckay]

Not detecting much warmth in this group and will take my thoughts elsewhere as suggested...   I need to respond first though.

Blackbirdr....     Your car does look smart but that's not the point.  I'm happy with my cars but they are irrelevant to the subject.  That was MY point.  Don't know about yours but the newer Acuras play SD via USb, and iphone etc.  I'll keep looking for a cheaper solution though.  

Daunpolod...    You're right.  The kit is obviously set to the luxury market.  I'm just interested in cost effective solutions and will keep looking.  (Some of that's worth more than my last car, before it self destructed (Turbo and DualMass Flywheel $4000 of pain))

Flytomars...   I don't see I was off topic but the rest of your response was interesting.  I wouldn't knock your dolby set-up by the way.  I see the new Acuras create surround from digital files (ipads, ipods, USB/SD, and stereo 3.5mm) via some Dolby tricks so I reckon you are up there already.  You're on the leading edge!     I wouldn't bother with a PC solution when there are so many home based media players.  You can get the likes of a sumvision media player for around $30... maybe there's some mileage there as a starting point.

[flytomars]

Hey PJ,

I think I understand the mis-understanding.

Even though there are some HU out there that can create dolby-pro logic fake surround, this thread (and in fact, entire forum), is dealing mainly in discrete surround.

I have been looking all around for true 5.1 channels + DTS decoding but to no avail-

That is why Blackbirdr car is relevent- not because of the car make, but because it has this now almost extinct setup (even better- it plays DVD Audio) as a built-in feature.

Some people do not want to mess with complicated installations and for them the built-in option is the only option.

+ as far as I know, you cannot buy this setup without the car- that is why it is relevant.

The fact that some people will stay with a car just for its sound system shows alot about the dedication people have for this esoteric listening experience.

 

Regarding the Sumvision media player you suggested-

Is it possible to reproduce true surround with it, ie it has 5.1 pre-amplified channels and is able to decode dolby and DTS (or even SACD and DVDA)?

[Daun Polod]

From what I know almost all of Pioneer or Alpine HU would play DTS and
some surround format as long as they have optical out you can connect
the HU to the DTS processor such as this

http://www.pioneer.my/ProductDetail/default.asp?ProductId=65&CatId=2,23,204

the only problem is that none of them yet (as far as I know) do play flac....

Ural ConceRt CDD from Russia does play flac.... but not sure about
surround though....U can check it here from the FLAC hardware sections
websites....

http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware

demo here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIeNq-G9CZ0&feature=related

[flytomars]

Hi daun,
I really dont like pioneer and like I said- alpine is an option i am seriously considering.
It is a costly solution, and also not all HU have digital out-
And, I am not sure AVI with DTS over usb will pass the surround info to the processor....

[Joe A]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:08:09 AM UTC-5, flytomars wrote:

The idea behind a car-PC is to replace the whole HU alltogether-

Instead of the HU, you install a 7" monitor (for double din).

I disagree with that -- without a head unit are you going to rely on an external pre-amp and amplifier?  A carputer isn't capable of driving the speakers by itself.  

[flytomars]

I thought it was obvious that a carputer needs an amplifier, since a regular HU needs an amp for surround-
The car PC is even more robust as it also doesnt need a pre-amp which most HU require if you are planning on an active setup (as opposed to passive crossovers).
What is it that you dont agree with?

[Daun Polod]

There lots of current alpine DVD HU that can play surrounds
sounds...but if quality is the target I suggest you look at Alpine F#1
Status series...combine the DVD HU (
http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?autocom=classified&req=showprod&product=45846
) with a processor (http://www.abt.com/product/9799/Alpine-.html ) it
will play DTS, Dolby Surround and Prologic II. But I'm not sure
whether It will play AVI format or not.

or you can try this parrot asteroid. It does play FLAC but not sure
about surround.

http://www.parrot.com/usa/products/asteroid-range/parrot-asteroid-smart

http://www.parrot.com/usa/products/bluetooth-hands-free-car-kits/parrot-asteroid

[flytomars]

Hey Daun,

This parrott looks interesting-

No 5.1 though (didnt check the decoding options but already saw it has no center channel pre-out)

The alpine F#1 is fantastic, but like u said- I am not even sure it has a USB in,

Also it is a single DIN and I am looking to upgrade to 2din.

I dont mind lossy formats in the car, I can even hear dolby (though of course prefere DTS),

But I already have about 30-40 DVDs filled with DTS albums (about 6-8 albums in each), so it would be a shame to move to dolby now...

[Riky]

@Daun gosh man came home had a few:)) clicked on ur alpine link n fell of my chair $4500 for a car dvd?? huh wait i'll check this again after my shower tomrw..lol
Hope that was not real. WOW

[John Kleitz]

The Yanks are crying at the gasoline at $5 a gallon (while the rest of us are paying roughly double that). I haven't owned a car to protect the environment for 12 years, and I honestly don't miss it a bit. How about designing an efficient mode of transport before tossing off about the noise you seem to need to drown out the engine noise?

[Daun Polod]

I think that the price of a used one...u should check the price of a
brand new...but it already discontinued...look at the whole system of
Pioneer ODR...that cost even more...but honestly it worth it.....

[Paulgarfunkel]

Be fair you may have the luxury of public transportion but so like me do not! So stand in the middle if 5.1 trees and listen to the wind while I pay $3,89 for premium and drive 2 hours a day round trip in my DVD-A equipped Acura RL.

Sent from my iPhone

[John Kleitz]

yeah but for how much longer? Even with the head in the sand..the stuff that makes your wreck going is probably not even available any more in 20 years. Btw, trees and birds sound very nice, but I still have a system in my iHome that blows your wreck away, as does my motorcycle, when you eat my dust at 100mls / gallon (no, I dont even listen to my iCrap while on that) and god also gave us feet and bicycles which do wonders for couch potatoes'heart condition. Btw, no pubtrans here, our government is to stupid to think of that... 

[Paulgarfunkel]

Oh boy you have been drinking the Kool Aid. There is over 100 years of gas out there they we know of. Google motorcycle accident! My car has more air bags then you have speakers. Also if you do your research you will find that electric cars and hybrids cause greater impact on the environment then standard gas cars that can be restored and repaired easier then the "environmentally friendly cars" 

Battery's are not friendly and most hybrids have a higher cost of ownership until gas gets over $10 a gallon.

  

Sent from my iPhone

[John Kleitz]

No, never tried cool aid and don't use booze either. 'Guess that's the reason that I haven't had an accident in 40 years. I just expect the worst of tin boxes on wheels, which has kept me save. And yes, if you keep invading third world countries and robbing them of their resources you'll possibly grab enough for your gas guzzlers to run for another 100 years. I would expect, though, that until then someone with a brain comes up with something that works. As long as people get brain washed and happily comply with governments that are run by the industry (this is actually the very definition of fascism) nothing happens. And let me guess, climate change has been made up by doped-up hippies to scare us all? If so, I just don't understand why our little island nation neighbours are drowning already and are having to evacuate.

Sent from my iHome

[Paulgarfunkel]

Funny coming from an apple product who've have polluted china enslaved workers and shoes no slowing down. Now I am using one too but I am not trying save the world.

When the world gets tired if us it will scrap us. It arrogance that believes we can make change to this planet. If the entire life of the planet were a day our modern age is one second. Stop The BS! 

And by the way a biker ruined my life as he decided to pass me on a blind turn drunk and hit another car and after I stayed by his side and protected him from oncoming traffic  he later sued me saying my 6 cylinder ford over took his Harley. Now he did not win but he fucked up a year of my life and because of the litigation i was forced to break up with my girlfriend as she was a witness. Motorcycles are dangerous in the best of hands! Lethal in the hands of an idiot.

Stop trying to save a planet that could give a fuck about you! To it you are less then a bed bug! 

Getting off my high horse.  

Sent from my iPhone

[John Kleitz]

Never owned an Apple product in my life and never will (partly, because of slave labour and electronic pollution). I was making a joke. Maybe you should try and develop a sense of humour, you'll probably live longer. The arrogance is actually to believe the 'planet' can be killed by us. It will live far longer than us bugs, once it has spit us out.

In the meantime try to respect your fellow bugs and maybe look at what's important in life.

Obviously this threat has gone way off topic, but I try to make other bugs think (dreadful habit, eh?)


END OF COMMUNICATION

[Paulgarfunkel]

I guess we can agree that we are no treat to the planet. This phone is my only apple product and I am not a big fan of how they and the walmarts of the world operate.

Drive carefully since there are lots of assholes out there and a motorcycle offers little safety believe me I have seen it first hand. I also lost a friend 20 years ago in a motorcycle accident (his fault) so I am not a big fan.

Maybe you can get a surround sound helmet?

Sent from my iPhone

[realafrica]

Nice one Possum!
Planet 1st tosssers last
Especially tossers in hummers, eh?

[realafrica]

Blackbird

IMHO you are well out of line with Possum and showing yourself up to be a (not fat but) podgy cat, in a podgy car, that irrationally hates motorcyclists, uses apple child killer crap and will carelessly fuck up everyone, with your head in the sand over the harm you do to the humans on the planet by adding to global warming etc. Maybe, like most yanks, you don't give a sh1t, but many people would like to have their children survive the devastation you cause globally. Stop making excuses for your selfishness and bad behaviour. Give yourself and your family, maybe co-workers too, a lot more respect and find a better solution to driving 2 hours to a job, doing that must be awful for all concerned.
If I could separate USA from the rest of the planet and send it off into space...........if only.....the rest of us just might get on better and survive your nonsense :lol:

[Paulgarfunkel]

You tried that once and failed. My job by the way is helping Americans Finace their Buisness and sorry mate there is no public transport. 

I don't hate on motorcycle drivers I was just pointing out how unsafe they are. Also I have a family of 4 and education enough to know you don't transport 5 year olds on motorcycles. 

Buy a horse live off the grid and do us all a favor!

And if it were not for us yanks you would be speaking German or worse you would not exist since without us that you hate so much your mom & dad probably would not have live to have you spout your hate! Grow up and realize no US no Europe!

Sent from my iPhone

[Paulgarfunkel]

Sorry no hummer! Anyone who is on this blog is guilty since the lines of communication used to connect us were all at the cost of rare earth minerals mined most likely by slave labor transported in gas guzzling trucks and boats. Have an issue get a tissue at least I am not a Hypocrite!

Sent from my iPhone

[Paul Garfunkel]

Possum "John Kleitz" Let me break out my desktop to end this mess, you disparaged the people in this thread and took it off topic and have no business here since you are not looking to add anything but hatred for the US into this thread and since I live in the US and "MY" tax dollars have gone to the defense of "YOUR" nation for decades I take offence in your turning this into a debate in which you jumped on the soap box and spewed your garbage. And "Paul Hammond" shame on you using the handle "Real Africa" and spew separative hate speak again at a county that makes you existence and freedom possible, your comments are a disgrace. Both of you should be ashamed of yourself s you believe your tech is made in candyland by fairy's and elfs. The genocide your nations inflicted on it's own people is where the rest of the world got it's examples. Were are not even 250 years old and we at least try to correct our mistakes in a timely fashion. You killed your own for generations, we are are made up of the people that wanted out of those countries to find a better life it's not perfect but we are the only country made up of all of us. 

Even the crap that Apple gets away with is government sanctioned by China, you have a problem with it confront it and drop off the grid because every text, email, cellphone call and  blog is furthering the problem. It's not a perfect world and being bold enough to come to terms with it is what it's all about. Now both of you grow a pair and admit you were wrong since your input is off topic and pure hatred!        

[realafrica]

Hmm Paul Garfunkle.
The nick Real Africa I use here is related to a not for profit enterprise I run in Africa. A continent raped and pillage in past centuries by the British Empire, the French, Dutch and Belgian colonialists etc..but I was not there then and have no responsibility for that. But what is USA, World bank, big oil companies etc.. doing in there nowadays. More rape and pillage! I'm out there trying to do something in my own, personal, small way to redress the balance. You want me to be ashamed of that you gutless, gas guzzler?

I don't believe any  tech is made in candyland by fairy's and elfs, you silly boy. I'm just a little bit aware of where it comes from and do my best to minimise my personal use of the worst offenders. I tend to believe that one can't really change the attitudes of others, except possible by doing one's best to lead by example. So I do such things as boycott a lot of nasty companies involved in horrible things and the government of the USA, which is much the same really. I have many American friends and have nothing against American citizens, but I wish they were better informed by their (censored) media and noticed the little island offshore from mainland USA called 'the rest of the planet' from time to time :lol:
I don't hate USA, but it's government disgusts me, especially it's foreign policy. Your tax $ don't defend anything outside USA except your government's despicable infringements into other sovereign countries. Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc., despotic destruction every where, perpetrated via poor young men forced to serve in your armed forces against their will. At least the better informed and more socially aware amongst them are out on the street protesting about it. The number of 'friendly fire' kills in other more recent wars has shown US soldiers to be so shit scared, they just shoot as many bullets, rockets, whatever as possible in all directions, regardless of who they might kill, as long as they might save their own sorry asses!
There is no point you dragging up things that occurred in past centuries, as you tried over Africa and mention of the USA 2nd world war exploits if that's what you meant by 'making our freedom possible'. It is the US government that is trying to dictate all kinds of censorship of the internet outside it's own borders, that is no defence of my freedom, that is an attempt at totalitarianism world wide! USA does not make people free, it tries to enslave them into their abominable McDonalds, Disney, Coca-cola culture. It is in this present that we have problems pertinent to this discussion, but re ww2 I guess 'the allies' won in spite of interference from yanks. :lol:

It's true USA is not yet 250 years old, it is still and infant, but that infant, as infants usually do, thinks the rest of the universe is there to serve it, if they notice anything outside themselves at all, that is. Infants with too much power, too many armaments and drinking up all the worlds natural resources like it was mother's milk and dumping it's diapers in the 3rd world. USA the cuckoo in the nest. Wake up Paul Garfunkel see what really going on in the real world. The try to do something about it. Do you want to remain part of the problem or try to be part of the solution?

I am a human being with all kinds of faults and I do my best and fail often, but at least I try to minimise my personal impact on the environment, in sensible and practical ways, rather than the derogatory nonsense you spout like 'go off grid and ride a horse'. Hah! if only that were really possible..........
You may be more responsible than you, so far, sound, we only have what you say to go on. So far you sound like the 'podgy cat' I described earlier. Are you able to dispel that image and explain how you do your best to protect the environment, and the children being born into these societies that we have not managed to change for the better yet? Once you do, I will grovel, begging your forgiveness.

[Paulgarfunkel]

You presume to know me and judge me because I own a car and "know motorcycles are unsafe".

The fact is we spend more money defending the rights and freedoms of other countries and any other 5 nations combined. We do not force our men into the military we have a 100% volunteer military and I honor that with by wearing the name of Lt Col Robert J Ditormaso on my wrist (no fancy Swiss watch) he died protecting freedom. I never called for your home to be removed from this earth like you did mine. 

We have better pollution laws then any other country in the world, we use more fuel because there are more of us!

We have more stringent emission standards than any other country.

 Do you really thing Africa would have ended decades of minority rule without us?

Your hands are just a dirty as the rest of us. 

And again this was a friendly conversation until you two decided to attack me and my county.

I would love to be able to see how far you would be without us!

Sent from my iPhone

[lokkerman]

Guys
I am now appealing for some calm - a few days ago everyone was best of
mates - until we talked about blasted car stereos (lol). Let's get
back to the music and the sounds and get some peace in this lot..
And that I'm afraid goes for all of you
Lokks - Moderator

On Nov 26, 1:01 pm, Paulgarfunkel <paulgarfun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You presume to know me and judge me because I own a car and "know motorcycles are unsafe".
>
> The fact is we spend more money defending the rights and freedoms of other countries and any other 5 nations combined. We do not force our men into the military we have a 100% volunteer military and I honor that with by wearing the name of Lt Col Robert J Ditormaso on my wrist (no fancy Swiss watch) he died protecting freedom. I never called for your home to be removed from this earth like you did mine.
>
> We have better pollution laws then any other country in the world, we use more fuel because there are more of us!
>
> We have more stringent emission standards than any other country.
>
>  Do you really thing Africa would have ended decades of minority rule without us?
>
> Your hands are just a dirty as the rest of us.
>
> And again this was a friendly conversation until you two decided to attack me and my county.
>
> I would love to be able to see how far you would be without us!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

[realafrica]

OK Lokks.

 I have no more to say on the sub subject.

But I was wondering if there might be a cheap and cheerful solution to car audio that will play flac.
For a car I guess I can compromise and be satisfied with stereo and maybe 24/48 flac, but 24/96 would be better, of course.
I have a 2din radio and cassette player in my old car. It has lost the security code, due to battery faults and it strikes me that paying to get a new code might be false economy. It would be better to replace what is there with something more practical than a cassette player. I looked in a local car super store and their audio range was pitiful. Some took USB, but none could play flac. They are all geared to this moronic MP3 rubbish, with some wma. I don't get it, flac is free and open source, why don't they use it?

[lokkerman]

I feel the same actually the system in my car is a monster of a Bose system with a huge 250 watt amp sitting on a faux parcel shelf in the boot (trunk). The car sound system was designed for the car – however no aux input and I’m too old to mess with Head Units.

I’m afraid MP3 is for folks with mobiles and headsets and tiny speakers at home, like my kids have, welcome 21^st Century when we go backwards.

[Stephen Disney]

Wow!  Way to feed a troll...
That was an amusing read...
S

[pj-mckay]

All I would say is that I feel you're (like lots of you in the thread) not giving MP3 a chance in the car never mind the home.  I've just plopped a 4Gb card into my car and have to say I have NO intentions of playing CDs or any other optical media in the car EVER again.  And I don't in the house; apart from the odd DVD/Blu-Ray depending whats ripped/downloaded already. That said I do have flac, dts, iso plus mp3 at home too.

a) That 4Gb uSD card is the size of a fingernail yet holds 400+ tracks arranged however you like, ID tagged, and can be 320Kbps (make it what you like).  I don't need to carry 40 CDs;  I dont need to listen to 40 CD case clatter around the car; I have plenty choice of music, and can swap it around willy-nilly on the PC.  This is fantastic for me.  Can't see why so many can't see the benefits.  It could be an ipod, an iphone, an android, a windows phone, a blackberry, whatever....   just enjoy the music.

b) I think you'd be surprised and probably not tell the difference between a good mp3 and a CD in the car at least..   True the whir of the drive might be a clue but that's another benefit to playing files.  Give it a try in your local dealer and prove me wrong if you like.

c) As for MP3 being for 'tiny speakers' mobiles and head sets....  If Linn and other high-end companies are looking at file playback, streaming, dlna etc then I'd suggest they know what they're talking about.  Linn have ditched CDs, and play mp3 amongst other formats.  I'm not ashamed to play mp3 and I rip it at 256 min.  I dont have tiny speakers or a tiny amp, but I do wear noise cancelling headphones at times to keep the kids noise down.  I'm happy.

d) You sound a little bit old-school....  Listening for the fly farting on the second track and banging on about the flat frequency response of your 24" wonderbass system.  The millions of kids with their gadgets on the other hand are enjoying the MUSIC, the BEAT, the BUZZ.  They may migrate to bigger and better in time but I bet they'll still love their mp3/AAC for the ultimate choice, portability, and the freedom they have with it.  Your system may well sound fantastic BUT many folk just want it to sound good or reasonable plus modern houses/flats don't adjust well to 5 large speakers and a rack of kit.

I've been there and still got my ground glass platter in the loft with both my turntables (low spec Pioneer and Dual).  Both with their drive belts deteriorated and snapped from being there for years.  I've moved on and don't look back for a minute. I'm 50+, love old music (70s on) (the kids hate it), love rock, love a bit of disco, a bit of club, like some new music (hate loads of it too) but thoroughly enjoy listening to hours of it every day, in ANY format.

ps  Someone mentioned 'cassette' in the threads.  They must be having a laugh cos I binned mine donkeys years ago.  They were replaced by mini-disc twenty years ago, and both of my MDs are in the loft awaiting their fate or reuse.  Still preferred recording to MD than cassettes and definitely cannot see ANY reason for keeping cassettes, not even for the car.  That would make me feel ashamed, very ashamed :-)

pps I know this is a little off topic BUT way closer than most over the past few days.  Once more folk adopt files the optical format will diminish.  All the head units will all take SD cards and the manufacturers will be forced to introduce various file formats as differentiators.  Then you'll all have your multi channel, multiformat in the car.  If my £300 Network media player can play EVERYTHING I throw at it  (Coax, optical, hdmi;  flac, dts, mp3, any iso, any video, internal disk, www or home network location) there's no reason a similarly priced gadget can't find it's way into a car.

Sorry for the long reply but it's an important message.  The world has changed, and will keep changing.  We can change with it or become irrelevant.

[lokkerman]

MP3 maybe do sound good in a car and I don’t suggest in the least it won’t, especially in today’s world of compressed dynamic range inhibited tin can stuff aimed at yes – mini speakers - and that goes for any type of music. The case in point being the long history of DR being removed from successive Stones remasters.

 

As for Linn even their Snobdek (sic)(remember what they had their first success with?) was renowned for being musically coloured way back when – but I tell you something they don’t half know marketing and how to extract loads of dosh from BS and as such they have made themselves hugely successful.  You can say that lots of things are better in this world than they are and folks swoon to buy it if your marketing is good enough.

 

As for the other comments – this group is for surround sound and Hi-res and although you can do MP3 in surround I’ve never seen anyone doing it  -- and besides DTS is better (known fact) and even better than DTS is flac which can almost get down to the same files sizes as a 320 MP3 but without throwing away audio assets.

 

Back to my point we try and do Hi-res not MP3 and you’ve got millions of other forums that do MP3 and in such you won’t have to criticise others for not supporting this format, so please do not try and sell MP3, as  to me and I assume to many others, MP3 has devalued the “sound” of the music more than any other medium – and at least cassettes even tried to be hi-fi ( I still have a Denon Cassette, unplayed for years but it could murder the sound of MP3).

And before we get into debates I am all for technology - after all we wanted to replace optical media, which was part of the thread, somewhere. I for one, await the day when we get TiB SSD drives. I was probably one of the first to move my vast collection of CD’s over to hard drive and have used a PC as an audio device for the last 4-5 years.

 

One thing to note is that every new car I’ve driven over the past 4 years has had an optical drive, so it’s hard to bypass, especially as some of us drive older cars.

[realafrica]

I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay

I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac. I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But, why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because, before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and  software that played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
 WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open source format called mp3?

pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!

.

[lokkerman]

Cannot agree more and  a lot better put than me

 

From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surrou...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car

 

I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay

[Peter Cawthron]

FLAC in the car?

 

Get a cassette adapter with 3.5mm plug for $3 delivered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-CAR-AUDIO-CASSETTE-ADAPTER-FOR-iPhone-5-5th-5G-16GB-32GB-64GB-/390484608573?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_PortableAudio_MP3PlayerCarKits&hash=item5aeab2463d

 

Get this for $14 delivered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4GB-Speaker-TF-Card-Reader-MP3-Player-with-FM-Function-Black-/130663567195?pt=Other_MP3_Players&hash=item1e6c27cf5b

 

P.

---

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2629/5423 - Release Date: 11/27/12

[lokkerman]

I haven’t got a cassette player in the car but did use a 30GB hard drive Creative Nomad Mp3 player (and for those that think recently – this was 2006) and a FM transmitter to FM radio adapter. It worked well until the nomad refused to charge. I actually thought about replacing the hard drive for a bigger version as a the juke box concept worked well.  I’ve got an Archos 250 GB Tab I should consider doing the same with.

[pj-mckay]

It's good to get other takes on a subject and hopefully we all get what we want.  Appreciate where you're coming from and believe me I don't throw money away easily, or on cars unless it's needed.  I reckon it's the DRM and 100% usability issues that'll keep optical alive.  Once they get something akin to SACD security for files they'll be keen to punt them anywhichway they can.  Your right about the atrac and at least Philips got it right when they licensed Cassettes 40 years ago and everybody used them.  Remember many older cars have USB too mind..   plop a card in a usb adapter and try it out if you get a chance, or use your ipod etc.  

I'll leave it at that and look forward to many interesting discussions from others around the things that interest us all to different extents.  

Last thing: I wont be buying a head unit in the near future as I've just bought (forced to) a year old focus with it's gizmos built in. There's no way the inbuilt unit with the rest of the cars wizardry attached will be getting swapped easily.  Progress in many ways but tied down in others, and probably relates to some folk that said they wouldn't replace (I foolishly forgot how much is interlinked in a car these days).  You'll have your multichannel before me!  

On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 22:22:25 UTC, lokkerman wrote:

MP3 maybe do sound good in a car and I don’t suggest in the least it won’t, especially in today’s world of compressed dynamic range inhibited tin can stuff aimed at yes – mini speakers - and that goes for any type of music. The case in point being the long history of DR being removed from successive Stones remastered......

[lokkerman]

PJ

Got to hand it to you – good solid debate and a great understanding between us all in conclusion.

Power to you

Lokks

From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of pj-mckay
Sent: 28 November 2012 18:40
To: surrou...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car

 

 

It's good to get other takes on a subject and hopefully we all get what we want.  Appreciate where you're coming from and believe me I don't throw money away easily, or on cars unless it's needed.  I reckon it's the DRM and 100% usability issues that'll keep optical alive.  Once they get something akin to SACD security for files they'll be keen to punt them anywhichway they can.  Your right about the atrac and at least Philips got it right when they licensed Cassettes 40 years ago and everybody used them.  Remember many older cars have USB too mind..   plop a card in a usb adapter and try it out if you get a chance, or use your ipod etc.  

--

[Joe A]

Regarding Apple and FLAC, Apple and its ecosystem support their own lossless format ALAC. Granted at the moment at only comes by ripping your own CDs in iTunes but if you have a FLAC collection it can be interchangeably converted back and forth with ALAC as there is no generational loss.

Note this applies to 44/16 stereo material. ALAC actually does support high res multichannel but the iDevices are limited in what their DACs can handle.

[pj-mckay]

And here's the real CRUX of the matter.  Apple supports ITS OWN format.  Why??    Obviously purely to tie folk into their ecosystem further, and ties in with why I logged on tonight.  Many folk questioned the use of flac and open standards quite rightly, and it reminded me that I also have to make choices.  That's where mp3 hit it off, in the same way as cassettes did 40 years ago; It's a common format and should be appreciated more, especially at higher bit rates. (Please don't respond telling me AAC is lower file size for the same quality;  I don't care.  It's marginal and unimportant)

For me....

a) MP3 as it plays on ALL my players whether they be PC, iPod, Creative Zen, Android, everything.

b) My video has to be converted to a common format (mpeg) and AC3 audio to play in ALL my video devices.  I'm not saying it's the best; just that I can convert to that successfully.

I have Apple kit in the shape of iphone and pad (from work) and the kids have ipods and it's greats stuff but I totally abhor an ecosystem that ties you to them and excludes others.  Even to the extent that they tried to force folk into AAC but at least can play mp3 now.  Ooooohh   It makes me angry that they block every other p[layer from itunes.

So..  whilst Apple may support ALAC.  Why would ANYONE want to convert open system flac to something 'as good'?  Where's the benefit to me, us?  I see plenty negatives but no positives (but will listen to sensible responses).

[Steven Sullivan]

Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the source music, and playback equipment.  But today is not that day, apparently.  

[lokkerman]

SS

If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar tissue (but  not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?

[Steven Sullivan]

And the ignorance continues.  If you understood what perceptual coding is, you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.

[lokkerman]

SS

You are so easy to draw; lol

Made my day; thanks

[Steven Sullivan]

I never said being ignorant and being a troll were exclusive.

[lokkerman]

And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh research, with tosh dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science

But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS)  by the tosh dummy heads themselves, now how’s that for a fact….?

But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed by peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn’t it? Cos’ if it wasn’t it wouldn’t be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to be right? Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first place, however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy head. Now watch you grab this one?

[Steven Sullivan]

I know you haven't a clue.  No need to elaborate the point further.

[lokkerman]

On nil to me

[John Kleitz]

Couldn't agree more, and Apples tendency to secure their share by binding users into their formats is very selfish, but understandable in order to maximise profits. One huge problem I have with Apple (and other companies) is why an American company manufactures almost completely in third world countries, rather than the US with it's huge employment problem. Sure, the production cost per iPhone may double from maybe $5 to $10 dollars, but that would hardly make much difference as the profit per unit is still in the hundreds of dollars per unit. Development costs stay the same as that is presumably carried out in the US. Now, if all American companies (Nike, Microsoft, the list goes on and on) were required to do this, all current economic woes for the US would almost instantly be resolved and the tax revenue would additionally experience a huge boost.
Please correct me if you find a fallacy in my argument.
I realize, I'm drifting off topic again... Sorry 'bout that, but I am very interested in your opinion on that.

[Steven Sullivan]

proudly ignorant of topic: check

expresses vehement opinion about that topic: check

declares itself a troll: check

makes typo while boasting of superiority: check

 

You do keep rising to expectations, I'll give you that. 

[John Kleitz]

Point taken, Promise to shut up now. Ta