Sunspace design
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nick pine
Mar 1, 2011, 11:07:13 AM3/1/11
to sunspace
"LarenCorie" <larencorie@...> wrote:
>If you want quality, durability, easy cleaning, and undistorted
>views for decades, then glass is the only way to go.
R2+ argon-inflated polycarbonate pillows should last 20 years,
with an 85% SHGC, fairly easy cleaning, and undistorted views.
The materials for a 4'x8' pillow cost $68, with less than 1 hour
of DIY labor. A pillow with cap strips over a 4'x8' 2x6 stud frame
south sunspace wall would transmit 0.85x820x31.2ft^2 = 21.7K Btu
on an average December day in Minneapolis. With 80 F air inside and
an average 22 F daytime temp, it would lose about 6h(80-22)31.2/R2
= 5457 Btu, for a net gain of 16.3K, at a DIY cost of $68/16.3K
= $0.004/Btu. Would anyone like to buy a kit?
>... You may be ahead to just buy clear glass sliding glass doors
>(more glass area than a 4x8 area) which have a large vent area.
>(special order $300 at HD, or Lowe's)
My local Home Depot quoted $385.36 (after a 20% discount) for
an American Craftsman 5500 series 6068 nominal 6' sliding glass
door with 2 32"x74" U0.51 insulated glass panels with 63% solar
transmission in a 71 5/8" x 79 3/4" frame. With 80 F air inside,
it would transmit 0.63x820x32.9ft^2 = 17K Btu and lose about
6h(80-22)39.7ft^2xU0.51 = 7040 Btu, for a net gain of 10K Btu
at a cost of $385.36/10K = $0.039/Btu, 9.6 times the DIY cost.
Lowes $308 item number 332329 (a bevel frame vinyl patio door
made by Pella) has 32.1 ft^2 of U0.32 low-e glass with 31%
transmission in a 70 3/4" x 79 1/2" frame, so it transmits
0.31x820x32.1ft^2 = 8160 Btu and loses 6h(80-22)39.1ft^2xU0.32
= 4350 Btu, for a net gain of 3810 at a cost of $308/3810
= $0.081/Btu, 20.2 times the DIY cost.
For $1117.13, Lowes can special order a Pella Pro-Line wood door with
29.3 ft^2 of U0.32 "natural sun" 52% glass in a 72"x81" frame making
0.52x820x29.3 - 6h(80-22)U0.32x40.5 = 7983 Btu at $1117.13/7983
= $0.14/Btu, 35 times the DIY cost.
>As for you "U" shape, DO NOT face windows East and West. Those
>orientation will overheat drastically in Summer.
Vent the sunspace in summertime and hang external shades over
the glazing, eg 80% black greenhouse shadecloth, which comes
in wide rolls and costs about 15 cents/ft^2. To make a sauna,
roll up the shades and close the vents. This works best with
a transparent roof.
>They will not get much gain in Winter.
An 8'x8' R2 85% sunspace east or west endwall will gain about
(0.85x310-6h(80-22)/R2)64ft^2 = 5728 Btu/day in December.
>And, they will lose a lot of heat when not in direct sunlight
>therefore will rob the other exposures of their gain.
Should sunspace endwalls be insulated or glazed? Views are nice,
and insulation costs money... A shallow 8'x24' air heater would
produce about (0.85x820-6h(80-22)/R2)8'x24' = 100.4K Btu/day.
With 2 8'x8' endwalls and a transparent roof, it would gain
0.85x8'(24'x820+2x8'x310+24'x430) = 237.7K Btu and lose about
6h(80-22)512ft^2/R2 = 89.1K, for a net gain of 148.6K Btu/day.
>The only way that can work well, is if you divide it into three
>separate spaces, facing in each of the different directions.
Sounds complicated.
Nick
>If you want quality, durability, easy cleaning, and undistorted
>views for decades, then glass is the only way to go.
R2+ argon-inflated polycarbonate pillows should last 20 years,
with an 85% SHGC, fairly easy cleaning, and undistorted views.
The materials for a 4'x8' pillow cost $68, with less than 1 hour
of DIY labor. A pillow with cap strips over a 4'x8' 2x6 stud frame
south sunspace wall would transmit 0.85x820x31.2ft^2 = 21.7K Btu
on an average December day in Minneapolis. With 80 F air inside and
an average 22 F daytime temp, it would lose about 6h(80-22)31.2/R2
= 5457 Btu, for a net gain of 16.3K, at a DIY cost of $68/16.3K
= $0.004/Btu. Would anyone like to buy a kit?
>... You may be ahead to just buy clear glass sliding glass doors
>(more glass area than a 4x8 area) which have a large vent area.
>(special order $300 at HD, or Lowe's)
My local Home Depot quoted $385.36 (after a 20% discount) for
an American Craftsman 5500 series 6068 nominal 6' sliding glass
door with 2 32"x74" U0.51 insulated glass panels with 63% solar
transmission in a 71 5/8" x 79 3/4" frame. With 80 F air inside,
it would transmit 0.63x820x32.9ft^2 = 17K Btu and lose about
6h(80-22)39.7ft^2xU0.51 = 7040 Btu, for a net gain of 10K Btu
at a cost of $385.36/10K = $0.039/Btu, 9.6 times the DIY cost.
Lowes $308 item number 332329 (a bevel frame vinyl patio door
made by Pella) has 32.1 ft^2 of U0.32 low-e glass with 31%
transmission in a 70 3/4" x 79 1/2" frame, so it transmits
0.31x820x32.1ft^2 = 8160 Btu and loses 6h(80-22)39.1ft^2xU0.32
= 4350 Btu, for a net gain of 3810 at a cost of $308/3810
= $0.081/Btu, 20.2 times the DIY cost.
For $1117.13, Lowes can special order a Pella Pro-Line wood door with
29.3 ft^2 of U0.32 "natural sun" 52% glass in a 72"x81" frame making
0.52x820x29.3 - 6h(80-22)U0.32x40.5 = 7983 Btu at $1117.13/7983
= $0.14/Btu, 35 times the DIY cost.
>As for you "U" shape, DO NOT face windows East and West. Those
>orientation will overheat drastically in Summer.
Vent the sunspace in summertime and hang external shades over
the glazing, eg 80% black greenhouse shadecloth, which comes
in wide rolls and costs about 15 cents/ft^2. To make a sauna,
roll up the shades and close the vents. This works best with
a transparent roof.
>They will not get much gain in Winter.
An 8'x8' R2 85% sunspace east or west endwall will gain about
(0.85x310-6h(80-22)/R2)64ft^2 = 5728 Btu/day in December.
>And, they will lose a lot of heat when not in direct sunlight
>therefore will rob the other exposures of their gain.
Should sunspace endwalls be insulated or glazed? Views are nice,
and insulation costs money... A shallow 8'x24' air heater would
produce about (0.85x820-6h(80-22)/R2)8'x24' = 100.4K Btu/day.
With 2 8'x8' endwalls and a transparent roof, it would gain
0.85x8'(24'x820+2x8'x310+24'x430) = 237.7K Btu and lose about
6h(80-22)512ft^2/R2 = 89.1K, for a net gain of 148.6K Btu/day.
>The only way that can work well, is if you divide it into three
>separate spaces, facing in each of the different directions.
Sounds complicated.
Nick
jim
Mar 1, 2011, 12:12:32 PM3/1/11
to suns...@googlegroups.com
| Buy old used sliding glass doors and take apart and get 2 panes http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5230845816_24f577f18e.jpg --- On Tue, 3/1/11, nick pine <ni...@early.com> wrote: |
nick pine
Mar 13, 2011, 6:54:31 AM3/13/11
to sunspace
Photo on page 8:
http://www.sbse.org/newsletter/issues/NewsSp2011.pdf
It got up to 158 F on the deck last week.
Nick
http://www.sbse.org/newsletter/issues/NewsSp2011.pdf
It got up to 158 F on the deck last week.
Nick
John Canivan
Mar 13, 2011, 11:03:53 AM3/13/11
to suns...@googlegroups.com
Nice massive passive system in NM. They know how to use their sun baked
environment to moderate temperature swings. Just a little sunlight heat
stored in stone or adobe goes a long way. Their houses are warm in the
winter and cool in the summer. nice pictures..
John
environment to moderate temperature swings. Just a little sunlight heat
stored in stone or adobe goes a long way. Their houses are warm in the
winter and cool in the summer. nice pictures..
John
Nathan Hurst
Mar 13, 2011, 8:58:22 PM3/13/11
to suns...@googlegroups.com
I feel your sunspace aesthetic is marred by the diagonal bracing,
perhaps if you made it symmetrical at least it wouldn't look so
jarring.
Have you worked out your storage yet?
njh
nick pine
Mar 14, 2011, 7:38:31 AM3/14/11
to sunspace, dmo...@fvymca.org, sean...@hometowngreen.net
Nathan Hurst <n...@njhurst.com> wrote:
> > Photo on page 8:
>
> >http://www.sbse.org/newsletter/issues/NewsSp2011.pdf
>
> > It got up to 158 F on the deck last week.
>
> I feel your sunspace aesthetic is marred by the diagonal bracing
That's been replaced by an X with 2 42' steel cables inside.
> > Photo on page 8:
>
> >http://www.sbse.org/newsletter/issues/NewsSp2011.pdf
>
> > It got up to 158 F on the deck last week.
>
> I feel your sunspace aesthetic is marred by the diagonal bracing
The wood will be gone as soon as the ground dries enough for
the bucket truck. And there will be a rectangular pond in front.
And we've covered the exposed wood with barn red aluminum and
added a 75% black shadecloth curtain inside since that photo,
which makes the space clothing-optional, unlike the 160 F
Spring Valley YMCA sauna.
> Have you worked out your storage yet?
will have 20'x64' of floorspace for plants and also keep 3
other 96' greenhouses from freezing.
Nick
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