Duplicate tanks on a single dive

[Sol]

Good morning comrades:

running Subsurface 4.9.4

MacOS 10.14.6 Mojave

Shearwater Perdix

So I'm entering last night's dive which I did on double AL80s. But the program thinks I used TWO sets of twin AL80s -- no idea why -- and nothing I do can change its mind. When I try to delete the second set, it responds with "This gas is in use. Only cylinders that are not used in the dive can be removed." Without that non-existent second set removed, the program can't calculate my SAC.

Sort of related to that -- it's been going on much longer but I've chosen to put up with it -- you can see that it pegs the working pressure for AL80s at 2988 psi. I haven't been able to set it at 3000 psi no matter what I do.

Screencap attached.

Sol

[Stuart Vernon]

I have seen the same issue in the past. I download my dives from my Shearwater and I end up with 2 cylinders in the list. One that says it is “in use” and won’t let me delete it. And the other one has my AI data.

 

So, the only way I can resolve it is to manually enter the start and end pressures from the “delete-able” cylinder into the same boxes in the non-delete-able cylinder, and then delete the one that is delete-able. Then it can display my RMV, but I lose all the data that would let me see the instantaneous RMV at different points during the dive.

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[Sol]

Yeah, well. I'm not using AI so no choice but to enter opening and closing pressures manually. And in my case it won't let me delete either one because it's convinced they're both in use. Thanks, though.

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[Grey Wolf]

hm....

I had a similar issue with my D12, 'cause I noted the D12 in the preferences as standard tank.

after deleting the D12 in the preferences I can change the used tank as I like .....

m.

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[David Wilkinson]

Hi,

I would like to add my scenario to this thread so see if anyone has a similar experience. First I want to thank the team for the work on Subsurface generally It is an excellent project.

 

I use:

Subsurface 4.9.4 on Windows 10

Subsurface for Android on a Galaxy 10

Shearwater Perdix AI most recent .72 firmware

 

My usage:

1. Plan a dive using double steel hp100s for main gas and an AL80 deco das using Subsurface on Windows 10
2. This plan automatically syncs using the cloud to Subsurface Android
3. Execute dive
4. Upload executed dive from Perdix AI to Subsurface Android (I have not been able to reliably upload from Perdix to Windows using Bluetooth BLE)
1. This seems to mean the plan and the dive do not automatically sync into one dive when the times are close enough
5. The dive syncs back to Subsurface Windows using the cloud storage
6. Edit the dive and the plan (adding dive buddy, place, adjusting time of plan etc)
7. Manually merge the dives together on Windows to give a singe dive with a plan with the Perdix being the 1^st computer

 

Observations:

1. Dives must be manually merged even when times match from plan and actual dive when done through Android
2. Subsurface windows profile often only registers singe tank from Perdix
3. Tank pressures from Perdix not always registered correctly
4. When dives are merged I often end up with 4 undeletable tanks from the plan and the perdix which makes it impossible to calculate SAC etc.

 

Actions:

I have sometimes been able to hand edit the XML file down to the 2 actual gases (200cuft and 80 cuft) using the actual Perdix reported pressures.

Sometime this is very difficult

 

Desired behavior:

1. The unpredictability of Windows BLE seems to result in the need to upload to Android – this is a little unpredictable and seems to require some manual “fixing”
2. My preferred result would be to have the Gas used and equipment separated by plan and actual so that I could analyze plan vs actual gas usage

 

If my usage is incorrect or I am expecting incorrect behavior please set me right and if I can assist in any way please let me know

 

Thanks

Dave

 

 

Example profile 1:

This one produced a very strange profile, not sure what happened here

 

Example profile 2:

I could only get the profile to show one tank although it picked up 2 from the perdix in the equipment list

 

Example profile 3:

Desired profile for executed dive

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[Willem Ferguson]

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Sol,

I suspect you have set DAL80 as your default cylinder, therefore when uploading a dive, it defaults to DAL80. It is not necessary to delete any of the cylinders, simply edit the cylinder type in the cylinder table. See section 4.2.5 in the user manual. Let's say you do a dive with an AL80 twinset as well as one decompression gas in an AL40. They will come up as two cylinders (i.e. two rows of data)  in the cylinder table, possibly both as DAL80. Simply edit the two cylinder types to reflect what you have used. The dive computer does not record cylinder type, therefore you need to provide that for those used during each individual dive.

Do I understand you correctly?

Kind regards,

willem

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Please refer to http://upnet.up.ac.za/services/it/documentation/docs/004167.pdf for full details.

[Jef Driesen]

On 5/06/2020 20:35, David Wilkinson wrote:

Example profile 1:

This one produced a very strange profile, not sure what happened here

 

The pressure profile looks indeed a bit strange. It looks as if it's switching between two different tank pressure sensors. Is this a dive directly from the dive computer, or is it an already merged dive?

I can have a look at the raw dive data to see if there is something unusual there. For that you need to download those dives again, but this time with the "Save libdivecomputer logfile" checkbox enabled in the download dialog. Email me this log file.

You may need to also enable the "Force download of all dives" checkbox to re-download previously downloaded dives. To completely avoid messing with your real logbook, I recommend creating a new empty logbook, which you can remove again afterwards.

Jef

[Sol Chrom]

Hi Willem:

I don't know why the program is so adamant that I used two sets of tanks or whatever, but I tried your suggestion. I've left the top line alone to reflect my AL80 doubles, but I changed the second line to 0. Or unknown. No help. Screencaps attached.

Sol

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[Dirk Hohndel]

The app sees a gas change during your dive. That's why you can't delete that extra cylinder. I wonder where that gas change came from... It seems to be at the beginning of your 40ft deco stop. Did you actually switch gas there?

/D

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[Sol]

Hi Dirk:

I didn't change gases or tanks at all. I was on EANx32 from just the one set of doubles from start to finish. And my max depth was 38 ft.

S

On Saturday, 6 June 2020 13:01:37 UTC-4, Dirk wrote:

The app sees a gas change during your dive. That's why you can't delete that extra cylinder. I wonder where that gas change came from... It seems to be at the beginning of your 40ft deco stop. Did you actually switch gas there?

/D

On Jun 6, 2020, at 9:52 AM, Sol Chrom  wrote:

Hi Willem:

I don't know why the program is so adamant that I used two sets of tanks or whatever, but I tried your suggestion. I've left the top line alone to reflect my AL80 doubles, but I changed the second line to 0. Or unknown. No help. Screencaps attached.

Sol

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 03:14, Willem Ferguson <willemf...@zoology.up.ac.za> wrote:

On 2020/06/05 17:36, Sol wrote:

Good morning comrades:

running Subsurface 4.9.4

MacOS 10.14.6 Mojave

Shearwater Perdix

So I'm entering last night's dive which I did on double AL80s. But the program thinks I used TWO sets of twin AL80s -- no idea why -- and nothing I do can change its mind. When I try to delete the second set, it responds with "This gas is in use. Only cylinders that are not used in the dive can be removed." Without that non-existent second set removed, the program can't calculate my SAC.

Sort of related to that -- it's been going on much longer but I've chosen to put up with it -- you can see that it pegs the working pressure for AL80s at 2988 psi. I haven't been able to set it at 3000 psi no matter what I do.

Screencap attached.

Sol

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Sol,

I suspect you have set DAL80 as your default cylinder, therefore when uploading a dive, it defaults to DAL80. It is not necessary to delete any of the cylinders, simply edit the cylinder type in the cylinder table. See section 4.2.5 in the user manual. Let's say you do a dive with an AL80 twinset as well as one decompression gas in an AL40. They will come up as two cylinders (i.e. two rows of data)  in the cylinder table, possibly both as DAL80. Simply edit the two cylinder types to reflect what you have used. The dive computer does not record cylinder type, therefore you need to provide that for those used during each individual dive.

Do I understand you correctly?

Kind regards,

willem

This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer.
Please refer to http://upnet.up.ac.za/services/it/documentation/docs/004167.pdf for full details.

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[Dirk Hohndel]

Well, err, your screen shot shows a gas change. And I'm trying to understand how that got added. 

[Sol]

You and me both. Not letting me delete it, either. I've tried editing it to the point where all the fields are empty, to the extent that it will let me, and it's still not making a difference. Can't delete it and the program can't or won't calculate my gas consumption either. Screencaps attached. 

[Linus Torvalds]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM Sol <sol....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You and me both. Not letting me delete it, either.

You won't be able to delete the cylinder as long as there's a gas switch to it.

You _should_ be able to delete the gas switch event (right-click on it
on the profile, although we've had some nasty special-case logic for
"gas switch at beginining of dive" which may be hiding the icon and
making it hard to click on).

However, the reason it exists is likely because you were diving with
the dive computer having two gases defined (looks like 32% and 100% -
although that "100" shows up as "10..." because your gas column is
very narrow, I guess it could be some 10/50 hypoxic trimix blend too?)

So the download from the Perdix AI seems to have then downloaded that
"gas switch to 32%" at the very start of the dive..

Linus

[Sol]

Thanks Linus, but I haven't been able to pinpoint a gas switch. I've blown the window all the way up to max on my 24" monitor. However, it does show that you're right about the 100% O2 as the second gas. I have no idea how that got in there -- I don't dive on 100% oxygen. 

Is there anything to be done about that?

Screencaps attached. Thanks.

Sol

On Saturday, 6 June 2020 18:39:29 UTC-4, Linus Torvalds wrote:

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM Sol <sol....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You and me both. Not letting me delete it, either.

You won't be able to delete the cylinder as long as there's a gas switch to it.  Screencap attached. You can see that I'm right at the beginning of the dive.

[Linus Torvalds]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 6:12 PM Sol <sol....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Linus, but I haven't been able to pinpoint a gas switch.

I'll have to admit that I personally often find our native data format
simpler than using the "GUI tool" (aka 'subsurface'), and I'll often
just edit my dive log contents as raw text in the git repository. I'm
a command-line kind of guy.

Would you mind sending me an export of that dive as a private email,
and I can take a look? Just export it as ssrf/xml format from the
"File" menu.

Linus