Data transfer from Suunto Dive Manager

[Richard Yorke]

I have just found Subsurface and it looks very much worth trying. However I find that exporting my previous dive data from Suunto Dive Manager 3.1 and importing it into Subsurface loses my air in/out data. Is there a way to bring this across as I don't really fancy doing it manually for 400+ dives.

Richard

[Miika Turkia]

This should be supported, but I guess there is a bug somewhere. Can you send me a sample log so I can fix the issue?

miika

[JB2Cool]

Are you exporting as SDE files or are you importing the d9.db file (I think it's called d9.db)

 

Jason

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Richard Yorke <yorke....@gmail.com> wrote:

I have just found Subsurface and it looks very much worth trying. However I find that exporting my previous dive data from Suunto Dive Manager 3.1 and importing it into Subsurface loses my air in/out data. Is there a way to bring this across as I don't really fancy doing it manually for 400+ dives.

Richard

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[Richard Yorke]

I had been using the SDE file and I think Suunto DM is the problem with this (as usual!) as it does not export the air in/out data in this :-( The D9.mdb file can't be parsed (even if renamed D9.db). You can find the files at http://www.richardy.co.uk/Files/ as they are too big to attach.

Richard

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 4:42:53 PM UTC, JB2Cool wrote:

Are you exporting as SDE files or are you importing the d9.db file (I think it's called d9.db)

 

Jason

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Richard Yorke <yorke....@gmail.com> wrote:

I have just found Subsurface and it looks very much worth trying. However I find that exporting my previous dive data from Suunto Dive Manager 3.1 and importing it into Subsurface loses my air in/out data. Is there a way to bring this across as I don't really fancy doing it manually for 400+ dives.

Richard

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[Miika Turkia]

The SDE is the file that we import. And as you found out yourself, the SDE file does not contain the pressure information.

D9.mdb is an MS Access database, and currently we do not have any support for that format. I know some other divelogs that use this format to store their logs so I have thought that I should take a look if import of MS Access logs is doable, but currently I have no idea if it would be easy or hard to build that support.

I wonder if you could import the DM3 file to DM4 and use that DB to import to Subsurface (DM4 uses sqlite3 database and we can import that directly).

miika

[Richard Yorke]

I have used a free program "SQLite2009 Pro Enterprise Manager" to convert the mdb file to a sqlite3 database but the resulting file can't be parsed (I am using Subsurface 4.4 beta 3). I don't know much about data base files so I may be going about it the wrong way (do I need a specific structure?), I was just hoping to avoid installing DM4!

Richard

[Miika Turkia]

I suspect that the database schema has changed between the versions. That would explain why the converted DB cannot be imported. Can you provide also the sqlite version of the DB so I can take a quick look?

miika

[Richard Yorke]

This is becoming a challenge! I have just installed Suunto DM5 on an old computer (I don't want it on my main one as I am afraid it will mess up my drivers!) but it will only accept SDE files and they don't contain the pressure information, so that was a waste of time (as is the whole program), but if it helps others it is worth it :-)

The db3 file produced by SQLite2009 Pro Enterprise Manager from my mdb file is now with the other files at http://www.richardy.co.uk/Files/ If subsurface can be made to parse that I think it would be a great help to everyone.

Richard

[Richard Yorke]

The more I looked the more complicated it all seemed, apparently I might have to split the database into blocks of 100 or less entries, even if I could get the database to be compatible. Then I saw the option to upload to divelogs.de and import them from there! Using the Suunto uploader for Windows (Beta) worked like a dream and it then all downloaded (with gas usage) to Subsurface equally smoothly :-)

This is certainly the way to go, and I would remove the option to import directly from Suunto files (*.SDE, *.db), or at least give a big warning, as this is hopeless due to Suunto leaving data out of these files and just leads to frustration!

I now look forward to getting to grips with Subsurface properly with my own data :-)

Richard

Richard

[Miika Turkia]

Thanks for the update. I didn't know about the uploader. Looks really like the way to go and we should document it in our User Manual.

The DB import works quite well with the newer dive managers as it is coded for DM4 and DM5. And that should import all the relevant information that is available. This is the database Suunto stores all information to, so we should not be lacking anything, unless I have not realized that some bit of info is actually useful. Anyway, the situation with older dive managers is quite different as they use MS Access instead of the sqlite that we support.

I already had the database schema figured out for DM3, so I was just about to start coding support for that in Subsurface, but that would also require the conversion step from MS Access to Sqlite, so your method is not at all complex in comparison. (Of course, there is also some support for reading Access DBs in Linux, but that is not documented at all and I have no idea how feasible adding one more library would be.)

miika

[Richard Yorke]

Now I have been able to start getting to grips with my data in the software, there are a couple of things that you might want to look into (if you have not already!). The first is that having ticked Auto group to see how it worked, I then decided I did not like it as much as a plain list, un-ticking it does not remove the created groups and I can't see any way to do that.

Secondly, I find that the importation via divelogs.de has not brought across when alarms go off (for too fast assent rate for example) or when a dive goes into deco, both of which show in DM3 so they must be there. Not a big problem, especially when you show calculated assent rates, but when it comes to your calculated ceiling, out of interest, which model are you using? When I have not gone into deco on my computer, your software will still give me a ceiling! For that reason it would be good to have the point my computer says I have gone into deco available.

Overall, though, the more I use it the more I like it :-)

Richard

[Miika Turkia]

On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 7:17:37 PM UTC+2, Richard Yorke wrote:

Now I have been able to start getting to grips with my data in the software, there are a couple of things that you might want to look into (if you have not already!). The first is that having ticked Auto group to see how it worked, I then decided I did not like it as much as a plain list, un-ticking it does not remove the created groups and I can't see any way to do that.

Select all dives in the list - right click - select remove dives from trip. Now that I test this out myself, it seems extremely slow with my log but hopefully this will work. Did you notice that if you click on the header of date (or any other than # header to sort by the column) the trips are not displayed. Unfortunately the sorting by date seems to
 

Secondly, I find that the importation via divelogs.de has not brought across when alarms go off (for too fast assent rate for example) or when a dive goes into deco, both of which show in DM3 so they must be there.

First take a backup of your log. Then try to import the Suunto SDE again. Dives should be merged with the dives imported from divelogs.de. Thus you will hopefully end up having complete set of information. (I don't think that divelogs.de supports the alarms/events, and thus they are lost when importing via divelogs.de.)
 

Not a big problem, especially when you show calculated assent rates, but when it comes to your calculated ceiling, out of interest, which model are you using? When I have not gone into deco on my computer, your software will still give me a ceiling! For that reason it would be good to have the point my computer says I have gone into deco available.

We use Bühlmann with gradient factors. If you set GFhigh to 100 then our calculation is quite unlikely to count ceiling if your dive was not a deco dive. The default gradient factor settings are quite conservative when compared to dive computers (when doing non deco dives). I am quite certain these calculations and configurations are configured on our user manual.
 

[Richard Yorke]

Selecting all and removing from trip worked, albeit very slowly. However, clicking on the date has proved to be the better option as I can have the best of both worlds as all the dives are in the same order whether sorted by number or date. I had not tried that as it seemed counter-intuitive, I had expected # to sort by number. Anyway, that is now fine. The part of your message after "Unfortunately the sorting by date seems to" is missing, but so far I have not found anything unfortunate (though that may happen).

Unfortunately the news is not so good on the alerts 'front' In DM there are alerts for reaching the surface, ascending too fast and going into deco (and possibly others). These would seem to be imported differently into Subsurface. No 'surface' warnings and just one symbol for both of the others. I have attached screen dumps to show what I mean. You will find them separated in the 'types' and the 'name' fields of bookmarks, as shown.

I had found the Bühlmann reference in the manual but unfortunately not until just after my last post.

Still a lot to explore but I think I am getting there.

Richard

[Linus Torvalds]

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Richard Yorke <yorke....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately the news is not so good on the alerts 'front' In DM there are
> alerts for reaching the surface, ascending too fast and going into deco (and
> possibly others). These would seem to be imported differently into
> Subsurface. No 'surface' warnings and just one symbol for both of the
> others.

We ignore the surface warning, since it seems to have no actual point
to it and is just noise.

But missing ascent rate and deco events probably indicate a failure to
import all the data from DM.

Linus

[Miika Turkia]

On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 10:55:44 PM UTC+2, Richard Yorke wrote:

Selecting all and removing from trip worked, albeit very slowly. However, clicking on the date has proved to be the better option as I can have the best of both worlds as all the dives are in the same order whether sorted by number or date. I had not tried that as it seemed counter-intuitive, I had expected # to sort by number. Anyway, that is now fine. The part of your message after "Unfortunately the sorting by date seems to" is missing, but so far I have not found anything unfortunate (though that may happen).

Unfortunately sorting by date was not working with one of my logs. However, with my main log it works properly, so it is probably not the normal case..This log was incorrectly sorted also on when sorting by number/trip, so it just might be garbage in.
 

Unfortunately the news is not so good on the alerts 'front' In DM there are alerts for reaching the surface, ascending too fast and going into deco (and possibly others). These would seem to be imported differently into Subsurface. No 'surface' warnings and just one symbol for both of the others. I have attached screen dumps to show what I mean. You will find them separated in the 'types' and the 'name' fields of bookmarks, as shown.

I do see the proper amount of warnings on your Subsurface screenshot. Only the surface event is missing, as Linus pointed out, we do not show that as one can see the same information from the profile. When you hover over the warning icons, you see the reason on the information box. We only provide different icons for gas changes and warnings. The way DM gives you icons that show immediately what the warning was about, might be a good addition to Subsurface.
 

I had found the Bühlmann reference in the manual but unfortunately not until just after my last post.

Still a lot to explore but I think I am getting there.

The user manual is a good source of information and we all should take the time to browse it through :D

miika

[Richard Yorke]

I am amazed at the speed and helpfulness of your replies, and very grateful for them as I now feel I am getting to grips with the basic program (though I realise I am only scratching the surface at the moment). I also agree that the user manual is a good source of information, though I find the online version more helpful in that Chrome's search utility is more user friendly with occurrences highlighted and positions in the text marked on the scroll bar. Even then I found no reference to the warnings other than in the Dive Planner section. I had tried clicking the warnings and hovering over them but nothing seemed tom happen, but after your prompt I looked harder and realised it appears in the information window. The problem there is that it expanded so slowly with the warning on the bottom that it takes a while for the reason for the warning to appear (I have since realised that animations go faster the smaller the preferences setting not the bigger, so that is easier now).

As for the warnings themselves, I would find it much easier if they could be seen at a glance without having to move the mouse round. I agree with you that different colours for different problems, as in DM (they actually got something right!) would be great, otherwise perhaps the option to show only certain warnings, as the ascent rate can be seen font the colour of the graph at any point and just as hitting the surface is fairly obvious,  I could set it so that the only warning would be going into deco, I could then see which dives went into deco very much faster, just by clicking through the dives without any use of the mouse on the chart, and the need to look at all the warnings in the information box to ensure non of them were deco.

Thank you once again for all your tremendous help. You may have plenty of testers already, but if you want me to do any testing I will be very happy to put time into helping the program develop.

Kind regards

Richard

[Richard Yorke]

I have just realised that the search does mark the word searched for in help, it is just such a pale grey that I did not notice! Could we have it, say, bright yellow :-) 

[Miika Turkia]

We can sure use more testers. The peak of the action is when we prepare for release, but naturally we hope to get feedback at any time. We have some information put together for testers:

http://subsurface-divelog.org/documentation/contributing/testing-subsurface/

Also improvements on user manual are greatly appreciated. As usual, the people who don't know the software that well are best at reviewing instructions. BTW the search in the in-app help works fine on some operating systems, but apparently the colors are not good for some others (we do use the coloring theme from the operating system, as far as I know). But you are not the first one to complain, so that should be changed.

miika

[Richard Yorke]

While on the subject of the manual, as well as changing the colour of 'found text', perhaps you could, in keeping with most text searches (in windows at least), set F3 to start search and take you to the next instance.

Richard

[Richard Yorke]

As I continue to play with the software I have realised that the log always defaults to sorted by # and does not remember that I was sorting by dates (my favourite default) once it is closed. It would be preferable, as with most windows software, to remember the setting in force when it is closed and open again with the same setting.

Richard

On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 6:49:33 AM UTC, Miika Turkia wrote:

[Richard Yorke]

I have just come across a situation when ignoring the surface marker is a disadvantage. I have just had a problem with my BC feed seeping, slowly filling my BC and as I control my buoyancy on the bottom using the air in my drysuit, I did not notice, so that when I came to ascend the expanding air in my BC caused a loss of control. Fortunately not from a great depth and no untoward consequences. However, the Subsurface profile only shows me rising to 4m and descending to 5.5m for my safety stop. However I actually broke the surface and descented to 5.5 but the frequency of recording depth was not fast enough to show this as it was so brief. However, using Sunnto dive manager shows an icon that shows I reached the surface while Subsurface does not as you ignore these events. The lack of an icon makes this event look far less serious than it might have been. I think it would be preferable not to ignore the surface warning for this reason, and I look forward to seeing specific icons for different events. To that end could you tell me the specification of the required icons so that I can have a go at designing some for you.

[Anton North]

I second this solution. I have just tried it and it worked like a charm.

Summary:
Download the Suunto Uploader for Windows (Beta) from Divelogs.de https://en.divelogs.de/divelogsSDMuploader.zip

Run the uploader and provide credentials to sign in to divelogs.de (it should pick up your suunto database automatically if you run it on the same computer)

Upload your suunto dive logs to divelogs.de

Install subsurface

Import your dive logs from divelogs.de

All your information is preserved

What doesn't work:

Trying a later version of Suunto software

Exporting to sde or csv format (lose all your pressure data)

It's too bad that subsurface doesn't support importing all the data from older suunto software. I get it that this kind of thing takes work. Maybe the uploader from divelogs.de can be leveraged, as they seem to have been able to do it. On the other hand, this work around works perfectly well.

I also agree that some kind of warning needs to be added to subsurface when importing SDE format, to say that you will lose all your pressure data. I can just imagine if I had done the import, deleted my old software, then tried to find it again and see that all this information was missing! Not everyone has a transmitter for their suunto device, and not everyone will be affected by this. But I'm sure there are enough people out there to warrant it.

[Miika Turkia]

Newer versions of Suunto logs should import properly from the Suunto DB file. Steps to grab the DB are described in Subsurface User Manual. IIRC I have tested this with pressure data and gas switches, but another test would be appreciated.

The older Suunto databases are in different database format with no proper support on Linux/Mac world. Some library exists, but the amount of work to try to get the import implemented is not feasible as there is a proper workaround available. But you might still be onto something with the uploader part. It depends on what the uploader does, if we could just upload the log similarly. But then again it might be that it does something locally and this is not that straight forward...

Do you mind if we add your import steps to our FAQ? Or you could send a patch for that yourself, if you have any developer background :D (in our sources Documentation/FAQ.wordpress)

[Linus Torvalds]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Richard Yorke <yorke....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have just come across a situation when ignoring the surface marker is a
> disadvantage. I have just had a problem with my BC feed seeping, slowly
> filling my BC and as I control my buoyancy on the bottom using the air in my
> drysuit, I did not notice, so that when I came to ascend the expanding air
> in my BC caused a loss of control. Fortunately not from a great depth and no
> untoward consequences. However, the Subsurface profile only shows me rising
> to 4m and descending to 5.5m for my safety stop. However I actually broke
> the surface and descented to 5.5 but the frequency of recording depth was
> not fast enough to show this as it was so brief.

Ok, that's certainly a very valid reason for the surface event.

I'll send a patch to Dirk to import the surface events, and then I'll
try to look into a better way to just not show them. I suspect that
better way is to just say "if the samples around the surface event
were already at the surface, don't bother showing the event marker".

Linus

[Tomaz Canabrava]

About subsurface event, we could do a get together on 2017 to hack a bit.

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[Oliver Ohlendorf]

I am trying to import my dive logs from the Suunto Dive Manager 3.1 This was using an MS Access database file (d9.mdb). I exported dives as *.sde. When I am reimporting the same dives into DM 3.1 on a new divers account all data can be found, incuding pressure, DC serial number and warnings (annotations). Hence I am sure that the *.sde file contains this information. Is there a way to import this data into Subsurface?

[Lars Dennert]

If everything looks good in dm3 then export from there and read it into subsurface

[Oliver Ohlendorf]

Hi Lars,

 

the import does not seem to read the following data from the *.sde

 

1. dive computer serial number
2. annotations (warnings)

 

The dive computer serial is important because I have been using different computers of the same model.

 

Oliver Ohlendorf

 

Feladó: Lars Dennert
Elküldve: 2019. augusztus 26., hétfő 17:18
Címzett: Subsurface Divelog
Tárgy: Re: Data transfer from Suunto Dive Manager

 

If everything looks good in dm3 then export from there and read it into subsurface

 

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