CCR BO GF

[Rem]

  Hi, I have a question. Is it possible to set Gradient Factors for CCR Bailout somewhere? They could be slightly less conservative since I need to ascend to the surface safely but as quickly as possible. Thank you 

[Michael Keller]

Hi Rem.

On Wed, 18 Sept 2024 at 04:53, Rem <rbru...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Hi, I have a question. Is it possible to set Gradient Factors for CCR Bailout somewhere? They could be slightly less conservative since I need to ascend to the surface safely but as quickly as possible. Thank you 

 

Am I right to assume that this is for the planner?

What kind of profile are you trying to plan where you'd need this? If you are planning a CCR dive with open circuit bailout then you can probably just set the GF right below where you select 'Rebreather: Bailout / Deco on OC'.

Ngā mihi

  Michael Keller

--

GCS$/CC/E/IT d- s+ a C++ UL+++/S++ P L++ E-
W++ N o? K? w O(++) M-- V+ PS+ PE+ Y? PGP+ t
5? X R tv b++ DI++ D++ G e+++ h---- r+++ y+++

[Remus Brukker]

  Hi, thank you for the response. Yes, it's about planning. I know it's possible to adjust the GF, but it might be easier for the user to independently set the BOGF, and when I check the box for 'BO Deco on OC,' the ascent would be calculated using the BOGF. This is how we have it in the Liberty planner, and I can also set the BOGF in the unit itself. Thank you.  

ut 17. 9. 2024 o 23:35 Michael Keller <m...@042.ch> napísal(a):

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Subsurface Divelog" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/subsurface-divelog/RAxHvmlYw94/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to subsurface-dive...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/subsurface-divelog/CACJC9LYs2jY5aFwr%3DE4z%3DNg7GaS_AoVvUKy-fTmOprdLfwqz9Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Helling]

Michael,

> On 17. Sep 2024, at 23:35, Michael Keller <m...@042.ch> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 18 Sept 2024 at 04:53, Rem <rbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have a question. Is it possible to set Gradient Factors for CCR Bailout somewhere? They could be slightly less conservative since I need to ascend to the surface safely but as quickly as possible. Thank you
>
> Am I right to assume that this is for the planner?
> What kind of profile are you trying to plan where you'd need this? If you are planning a CCR dive with open circuit bailout then you can probably just set the GF right below where you select 'Rebreather: Bailout / Deco on OC'.
>

I what what he wants is a separate setting for bailout dives. But I don't think it's worth having that given that when you are planning your CCR dive and then plan the bailout alternative you can also change the GF settings if you really want. Having a control for that would not really save a lot of clicks while even more overloading the planner screen.

Best
Robert

[Remus Brukker]

  I understand clearly; I based it on how I plan the dive and the mixtures. The settings might not need to be on the main screen to avoid overloading it. It would be sufficient to have it in the settings menu, and in the case of CCR dives, if the 'BO Deco on OC' checkbox is selected, the ascent would be calculated using the BO GF. This is just my perspective and suggestion, which could also benefit others who do CCR dives and have equipment where the BO GF can be set. Thank you.  

st 18. 9. 2024 o 11:11 Robert Helling <hel...@atdotde.de> napísal(a):

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Subsurface Divelog" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/subsurface-divelog/RAxHvmlYw94/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to subsurface-dive...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/subsurface-divelog/A7CAD293-73B3-4548-A367-CE72FAB86E21%40atdotde.de.

[Michael Keller]

Hi Robert, Remus.

On 18/09/24 21:11, Robert Helling wrote:

I what what he wants is a separate setting for bailout dives. But I don't think it's worth having that given that when you are planning your CCR dive and then plan the bailout alternative you can also change the GF settings if you really want. Having a control for that would not really save a lot of clicks while even more overloading the planner screen.

I understood that part - I was just wondering if Remus needed it to calculate some complicated profile where part of the decompression would be done on the loop and at a 'normal' GF, and another part on bailout with an 'accelerated' GF. But this doesn't seem the case.

On 18/09/24 22:19, Remus Brukker wrote:

  I understand clearly; I based it on how I plan the dive and the mixtures. The settings might not need to be on the main screen to avoid overloading it. It would be sufficient to have it in the settings menu, and in the case of CCR dives, if the 'BO Deco on OC' checkbox is selected, the ascent would be calculated using the BO GF. This is just my perspective and suggestion, which could also benefit others who do CCR dives and have equipment where the BO GF can be set. Thank you. 

I don't like this idea - in my opinion this will lead to a lot of confused users and questions, if they find one setting and not the other. We are already getting questions like https://groups.google.com/g/subsurface-divelog/c/Ja_8NkK1W14/m/xQQPxcmTBwAJ because of the different GF settings in the application, and adding one more will only make this worse.

Also, when you mentioned that the Liberty CCR supports a different GF for bailout scenarios this was the first time that I heard of any CCR supporting this - so this does not seem to be something that is commonly available to the majority of CCR users, which would make it even more confusing for them.

Cheers

  Michael Keller

[jimbodude]

Liberty does indeed have a separate GF for Bailout. I, too, was surprised to hear this and looked it up in their manual https://www.divesoft.com/en/manuals/ccr-liberty-manual/ccr-liberty-manual-03#3-.-6-.-1-Emergency-ascent-(bailout).

I'm not sure I see the argument for changing my safety factor after a failure scenario. Are there training agencies recommending this approach?

I tend to agree that adding this feature would make the planner more complex, leading to confusion and mistakes.  Without research to back the approach, I would rather not see this feature.  The workaround for people who want to dive this way is simple - make your CCR plan normally, then when you're checking your BO plan change the GF settings to whatever you want your "BoGF" to be on the Liberty.

[Remus Brukker]

  Hello, I think, but this is just my perspective, that if I'm in an emergency ascent mode, it's good to know how quickly I can reach the surface. I may or may not need to :-)

  Yes, I understand that adding more parameters could complicate things for many users. Perhaps a solution could be to create two screens, one "Basic" and another for users who are interested in more information and settings. I will continue doing it the way I have been, by adjusting the GF (Gradient Factor) when planning gases for the emergency ascent. 

  In any case, Subsurface is an amazing tool. I'm currently preparing for various dives, so I'm playing around with it a lot :-) Especially for deeper dives, it allows me to plan gas mixtures and get ready for the dive.  

Thank you

št 19. 9. 2024 o 0:57 jimbodude <j...@jimbodude.net> napísal(a):

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Subsurface Divelog" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/subsurface-divelog/RAxHvmlYw94/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to subsurface-dive...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/subsurface-divelog/3338be78-c017-4057-afa8-d06aad29fe77n%40googlegroups.com.