Question about shipping ammunition.

[Frederick Espinosa]

Found some cheap ammo in Georgia.
Does anyone know the rules for shipping ammunition to the virgin islands?

-Fred.

Sent from my iPhone

[S.Parrilla]

Check with John Canegata, if memory serves me right, ammunition and guns should be shipped thru gun shop/range but I could be wrong.

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[Clayton Perry]

US Customs here on St Croix requires you have a VI business Lic to sell ammunition even though the law does not for your own personal use...

there for it is better you buy it here on Island.

namasté
Clayton

 

"Good friends are like stars........You don't always see them, but you know they are always there."

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it

 

"Saying guns kill people, is like saying pens cause spelling errors"

 

namasté café,

The Gunsmithy

Clayton Perry

PO Box 25237

St Croix, VI 00824

340-772-2529 (work)

340-513-2529 (cell)

888-814-2380 (fax)

 

[Jonathan Christopher]

Well....

Last year I was able to import 1,000 rounds of .45acp from stateside vendors.  Today, as I attempt to import about the same amount in both .45acp and 9mm they are claiming some business license thing.  19CFR141.  They refered me to this regulation I have yet to check out, they say they made an error last year.  So check that document out.

 

It should be noted that I explained that this is a private item for private use by a private citizen and they are holding firm, yet are bending some by telling me that it should be sorted out tommorow.  I emphasized to Customs that I refuse to put it under by business because it is not for retail, and local law does not require me to have a business to import.  These are american made cartridges from oklahoma to the usvi.

 

Needless to say, I get it.  Governments want the excise tax, and local law says that you must document all ammo transactions to private parties (i.e. from business to business owner, although Detective Stout has VERBALLY told me that owner consumption is not needed to document.).  Private citizens need not track when they consume their own product.

 

Long story short, ammo is cheaper in the states, and the shipping and taxes make it expensive.  DONT EVEN TALK ABOUT HOLLOW POINTS FOR DEFENSE!  I support my local businesses (D and J), however my personal economics does not allow me to practice how I want to AND pay local retail prices.

 

By this time tommorrow I should be able to say whether or not I caved in and went the business route (I AM AN FFL).

 

Sherrif_VI

[Shags]

Are you in Georgia, cause if you are, you could travel with up to 10lbs in you luggage but if you want to ship them down then check in with John

Trust only the ones that can be trusted but if u can't trust yourself, trust no one.

[Jonathan Christopher]

The other gentlemen are correct,

 

If you are in Georgia, just bring the 10lbs yourself without hastle.

 

I would like to offer an example of my situation quickly.

 

If I was returning from college and shipped down my old bunkbed (that I already owned)  I would not be asked to first sell it to a business to then buy it back.

 

So why is it that ammunition that I already owned in Oklahoma would then require me to sell it to a business to then repurchase it?

 

19CFR141, the document Customs Supervisor Stevens on St. Croix is reffering to speaks to IMPORTING FROM OVERSEAS, and does not speak to ammunition, but ALL and ANY item purchased from ABROAD, meaning INTERNATIONALLY.

 

She is in error, and I have already spoken to several CBP Officers and BATFE agents who disagree with her and her ISOLATION OF AMMUNITION.

 

By this time tommorrow I will have my 44lbs of United States manufactured ammo from a United States retailer that was already owned by a United States Citizen before it lef Miami.  No taxes!

 

We cannot allow anyone to make up laws and regulations as they feel.

 

Sherrif_VI

From: Shags <shag...@yahoo.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

[evil...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the information guys. 

I found an ffl here with some interesting inventory on sale.

I'll call D&J tomorrow to see how much of my gun buying ambition my budget will cover after shipping.

-Fred. 

Sent from my iPad

[John Fritz]

Fred

You mention your "gun buying ambition"  !   Keep in mind guns are a whole nother subject!

I know the VI Laws are very cloudy on what and how these "personal possessions" can and can not be brought on island.!

John F

---

From: "evil...@gmail.com" <evil...@gmail.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:54 PM

[evil...@gmail.com]

For a firearm I'm thinking I'll have to transfer it to John first (ffl to ffl) and do the coupon paperwork later.

I ran across some Mosin Nagants that are old and heavy, but in good condition. 

It's hard to go wrong for the price. Even if it's just a range toy. 

-Fred

Sent from my iPad

[Malcolm J Fabio Jr.]

Sigh Freddy, freddy freddy.....cheap doesn't mean good deal

[peter]

Nothing wrong with the Mosin Nagants. And you can get them for $100.00. I'm not sure that they will register them here though.

[Frederick Espinosa]

They are solid guns that weigh damn near twenty pounds. It's cheap because every European army used them and crates of the things got dumped on the market when it became obsolete. 

I'm still doing my research.  Probably go back later and get more info on the quality of the ones here. 

They used corrosive ammo back then, so I need to brush up on how to go about inspecting one. 

-Fred. 

Sent from my iPhone

[John Fritz]

Peter   Why not  They are just a bolt action rifle?     I know  I know we are talking VI

---

From: peter <vigunf...@earthlink.net>
To: stxgun...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:41 AM

[Jonathan Christopher]

Just as planned, My personal property [ammunition] is in my posession! Knowing the law is a beautiful thing, as long as you are willing to use it, hold firm, and let the documentation and legislation work it's magic. It never surprises me how many people [law enforcement]are ignorant to laws and don't even know what they are upholding or defending. Score 1 more for the "well informed citizenry" that Thomas Jefferson spoke so eloquently of! Sheriff_VI Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

[John Fritz]

score one for the good guys

Way to go Christopher

I think this should be documented chapter and verse and sent to the papers.

I am sure lots of people are getting screwed by customs for other stuff to.

John F

---

From: Jonathan Christopher <jonathan_c...@ymail.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>; "evil...@gmail.com" <evil...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:38 PM

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

[peter]

Don't ask me to make sense of the situation... ;)

It's a toss up. Probably a bit easier on the big island because you have 2 places to shoot. (not sure John's traps are rated for 7.62x54R...)

There is nothing in the 'law' that prevents it........

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fritz
Sent: May 17, 2012 7:37 PM
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Peter   Why not  They are just a bolt action rifle?     I know  I know we are talking VI

---

From: peter <vigunf...@earthlink.net>
To: stxgun...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:41 AM

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Nothing wrong with the Mosin Nagants. And you can get them for $100.00. I'm not sure that they will register them here though.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Malcolm J Fabio Jr."
Sent: May 17, 2012 11:24 AM
To: stxgun...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Sigh Freddy, freddy freddy.....cheap doesn't mean good deal

On May 17, 2012 8:19 AM, <evil...@gmail.com> wrote:

For a firearm I'm thinking I'll have to transfer it to John first (ffl to ffl) and do the coupon paperwork later.

I ran across some Mosin Nagants that are old and heavy, but in good condition. 

It's hard to go wrong for the price. Even if it's just a range toy. 

-Fred

Sent from my iPad

On May 16, 2012, at 22:49, John Fritz <johnfrit...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Fred

You mention your "gun buying ambition"  !   Keep in mind guns are a whole nother subject!

I know the VI Laws are very cloudy on what and how these "personal possessions" can and can not be brought on island.!

John F

---

From: "evil...@gmail.com" <evil...@gmail.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:54 PM

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Thanks for the information guys. 

I found an ffl here with some interesting inventory on sale.

I'll call D&J tomorrow to see how much of my gun buying ambition my budget will cover after shipping.

-Fred. 

Sent from my iPad

On May 16, 2012, at 17:04, Jonathan Christopher <jonathan_c...@ymail.com> wrote:

The other gentlemen are correct,

 

If you are in Georgia, just bring the 10lbs yourself without hastle.

 

I would like to offer an example of my situation quickly.

 

If I was returning from college and shipped down my old bunkbed (that I already owned)  I would not be asked to first sell it to a business to then buy it back.

 

So why is it that ammunition that I already owned in Oklahoma would then require me to sell it to a business to then repurchase it?

 

19CFR141, the document Customs Supervisor Stevens on St. Croix is reffering to speaks to IMPORTING FROM OVERSEAS, and does not speak to ammunition, but ALL and ANY item purchased from ABROAD, meaning INTERNATIONALLY.

 

She is in error, and I have already spoken to several CBP Officers and BATFE agents who disagree with her and her ISOLATION OF AMMUNITION.

 

By this time tommorrow I will have my 44lbs of United States manufactured ammo from a United States retailer that was already owned by a United States Citizen before it lef Miami.  No taxes!

 

We cannot allow anyone to make up laws and regulations as they feel.

 

Sherrif_VI

From: Shags <shag...@yahoo.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Are you in Georgia, cause if you are, you could travel with up to 10lbs in you luggage but if you want to ship them down then check in with John

Trust only the ones that can be trusted but if u can't trust yourself, trust no one.

On May 16, 2012, at 3:39 PM, "S.Parrilla" <sparr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Check with John Canegata, if memory serves me right, ammunition and guns should be shipped thru gun shop/range but I could be wrong.

On May 16, 2012 3:22 PM, "Frederick Espinosa" <evil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Found some cheap ammo in Georgia.
Does anyone know the rules for shipping ammunition to the virgin islands?

-Fred.

Sent from my iPhone

[peter]

2 years ago, 5 of us serious shooters, tired of high prices and unavailability, ordered some ammo and had it shipped in. We are all licensed for the calibers we were getting. I called the head of customs to make sure it was ok with him. It was, but he had me call the person in charge of the port. It was OK with him.

So we placed the order.
Order gets here. Tropical says customs won't clear it. won't say why. after 2 days they clear it. We go get it. 3 days later customs calls and says we have to bring it back. No reason given. Another call says maybe we don't need to bring it back, but don't use any of it. a few days later, they want me to come in for an interview. I go. Local ATF agent, Customs agent, and Firearms unit head interogate me for 2 hours. It took me 45 minutes to get them to admit that we had broken no federal laws. I was told we broke local laws. Which ones I asked? They couldn't tell me. They told me I had too much ammo. I asked how much am I allowed? They couldn't tell me, but what I had was 'Too Much"

They were pretty rough on me, luckily, being involved in LE training, I knew the drill...
They finally let me go.
I guess they were freaked that we brought in 37,000 rounds... (which lasted us about a year)

They couldn't grasp that serious people shoot 10s of thousands of rounds per year. They thought we were bringing it in to sell. Sorry. It's just for us to shoot.

Now, the VI code does say that if you aquire firearms or ammunition, either within or from outside of the territory, you need to write a letter to the commisior informing him of it. So we wrote the letter.  Of course, by strict interpretation of the law, if you go to D&J and buy a 20round box of ammo for your pistol, you have 'aquired ammo within the territory' and need to inform the commisioner in writting. I know nobody does this, and it probably isn't the intent of the law. but that's how it reads.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fritz
Sent: May 17, 2012 7:52 PM
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

score one for the good guys

Way to go Christopher

I think this should be documented chapter and verse and sent to the papers.

I am sure lots of people are getting screwed by customs for other stuff to.

John F

---

From: Jonathan Christopher <jonathan_c...@ymail.com>
To: "stxgun...@googlegroups.com" <stxgun...@googlegroups.com>; "evil...@gmail.com" <evil...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:38 PM

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

Just as planned, My personal property [ammunition] is in my posession! Knowing the law is a beautiful thing, as long as you are willing to use it, hold firm, and let the documentation and legislation work it's magic. It never surprises me how many people [law enforcement]are ignorant to laws and don't even know what they are upholding or defending. Score 1 more for the "well informed citizenry" that Thomas Jefferson spoke so eloquently of! Sheriff_VI Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

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[Scott Whitcher]

On the Moisin Nagant. If you are talking about a gas seal revolver, my opinion is that it's an interesting piece of history that you CAN still shoot, but I wouldn't chose one for serious use.
 
On tha ammo shipment; I agree that we can't be letting every bureacrat make up their own rules.....BUT, Frank and I came up against the same issue and unless you are willing and ready to risk and wait on your ammunition while the fight goes on and are prepared to take on the monster, you may be better off just "going along" and letting an FFL handle the deal.
If you do chose to fight, I can only offer moral support, but will wholeheartedly do so and encourage others to come along side you. We need to have clear laws that fit in with the laws of the rest of the country and that actually work. Not someone's idea that could never work except for him (or her). 
 

---

Subject: Re: Question about shipping ammunition.

From: evil...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:47:42 -0400
To: stxgun...@googlegroups.com

[peter]

"They are solid guns that weigh damn near twenty pounds."

 

Well, more like 7.5-9.0 pounds depending on which model.

 

 

 

 

" It's cheap because every European army used them and crates of the things got dumped on the market when it became obsolete."

 

Just the Soviet bloc/iron curtain countries (and china/korea/vietnam) they are cheap because there are millions of them available. And they are the least 'nice' of the military bolt action rifle (well except maybe the Arisaka...)  And they are ugly as sin. But they are robust and they work and they are only a hundred bucks...

When I was a kid you could get German Mausers for $20-$30, A much nicer rifle. That supply has dried up. Now Yugo Mausers are $350.00.

 

I'd much rather have my AR, but if I lived in the states I'd drop the C-note and get one to 'put away'

 

"I'm still doing my research.  Probably go back later and get more info on the quality of the ones here. 

They used corrosive ammo back then, so I need to brush up on how to go about inspecting one. "

 

Pull the bolt, point the muzzle at some light, and look down the bore from the breech end. Some models are more desirable than others, like the Finish M39 and the 91/30, or the Russian 38 and 44

[Frederick Espinosa]

I just purchased one. $120 after tax. Made 1938, I think. All the fittings still on and with kit and bayonet. 

I'll probably end up paying more in shipping than I did for the gun, but it's a fun piece of history. 

Next up will be the joys of getting ammo for it to the VI. (7.62x54 rimmed). 

-Fred

Sent from my iPhone