Madi question

[Augie]

Augie,

Thanks again for your help in the shop.

I have a question for you at 48k that madi card should give me 64 in
and 64 out.  In my patch I only have access to 32 by 32.


Any thoughts?

Thanks

Bob
914-803-2902
Sound Associates
979 Saw Mill River Rd
Yonkers, NY
10710

[Augie]

Bob

Check the dip switchs on the MADI card again, banks S3 & S4 check
D21m manual sec 6.3.2
S3 off on on on off on on on
S4 #1 off

Also what the total IO count on that HUB.

Take out the card to the right of the MADI card you are not using and
see what happens

(push the config button in front)

You might try putting the MADI card in a different HUB with less IO

good luck, let us (fourm) know how you solved it

Augie

[Der, Tom]

I concur with Augie. Either the MADI card is bandwidth limited by the Dip switch settings or in the S-Core config tool under interface setup- the DSP card ports for that hub weren't expecting to see the additional i/o and needs to be increased and the configuration re-generated.

[mackerr]

I have a different MADI question. On a large event we are shipping 64x24 channels of audio from a Rocknet system in the main tent to the broadcast master control about 1500' of fiber away.Our first thought was to take MADI directly out of the Rocknet/Digico rig into the same MADI card we have used in the past for a 24x25 D21 frame in the main tent. That brought up the issue of how sync is handled in that situation. Each end sort of assumes it is the master clock for the system (I think), so how do we let one become the master so we don't have sync issues?

Paul Shorter's suggestion was to use a Rocknet card in the Vista 5 instead of the MADI card, so we could take the WC out of the RN card and run it into the WC in of the sync card, thereby making Rocknet the master clock. Since we currently don't have a Rocknet card, what are the alternatives?

The config file has been changed and the card is set for 64inx24out.

Mac

[Propersi, Augie]

In the past doing recording we took the WC off the MADI. Can you move the D21 next the Rocknet box?

 

Augie J Propersi

Audio Engineer

212-763-1263

New York City Center

130 West 56 Street

New York NY 10019

 

nycitycenter.org  

apro...@citycenter.org

 

 

---

From: studer...@googlegroups.com [mailto:studer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mackerr
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 3:50 PM
To: studer...@googlegroups.com
Cc: tom...@harman.com
Subject: Re: Madi question

[mackerr]

The plan is to eliminate that D21, is there an advantage to keeping it? How is it different if the MADI goes into a MADI card on the D21, or a MADI card in the hub?

Mac

[Propersi, Augie]

I believe no difference as long you do not exceed that hubs IO count

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

[mackerr]

I'm good on the port channel count, the issue is word clock. My part of the system will be the SCore with 1 additional local D21 at 32x80, 3 remote D21s via fiber at 24x24, and 1 MADI connection at 64x24. At the other end of that MADI connection is a Rocknet system feeding a Digico SD7 FOH console and an Avid Profile Mon console. I am fine clocking my system to the Rocknet in the main tent, but how do I accomplish that? I am not aware of a way to tell the Vista to clock off a particular MADI card in the hub, and the distance is too much to run a WC coax with the fiber. Chances are it will be a 4 core fiber, is there a WC>Fiber interface to run WC down the extra fiber pair? If I can find a Rocknet card for the Vista I will use both fiber pairs as part of the Rocknet loop, and take WC out of the Rocknet card into the WC in of the sync card.

Mac

[mackerr]

FWIW we were able to get a RockNet card from VER. It will be at the shop 9/10, and I will start interfacing the console to Rocknet then. I'll keep you posted.

Mac

[mackerr]

FWIW, if you are planning on using a Rocknet card, it shows up as a 64x64 MADI card. There is no way to change the amount of I/O, so be sure to factor all the channels into the config. Still haven't interfaced to the network and other consoles, but I have rebuilt the config a couple of times. ;-)

Mac

[Tunnicliffe, James]

Hi Mac,

 

I dealt with the RockNet card on an install recently.   I may not be remembering this properly, but with the version of firmware I was using (2.22) and the corresponding version of RockWorks, I think I was able to limit the MADI stream in the usual groups of 8.  The “drops” showed up as a Remote Stagebox, the “adds” as MADI outputs.

There was also a pull-down box in said software that changed the card’s emulation between “Soundcraft” and “Studer”, changing, as far as I could tell, emulation between a Vi stagebox and a D21/Stagebox combo.

 

Cheers,

 

James

 

James Tunnicliffe

Field Applications Engineer

Digital Console Specialist

Studer - Soundcraft

 

8500 Balboa Blvd.

Northridge, CA 91329

Mobile: +1 973 220 1622

Fax: +1 818 893 1531

Email: James.Tu...@harman.com

Web: www.harman.com

 

 

 

 

 

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

[mackerr]

Thanks James. Tomorrow (Fri) we finally hook up the RockNet network. At this point, I have made a configuration that includes 64 outputs on that card vs the 24 I had on the MADI card. It was a PITA, but it's done now. The Rocknet support guy at Riedel, Jeremy Lommori, seemed to think you could not change the I/O count. I hope when the network is up and we actually have mic pres, they will show up as a stagebox. Currently the card is showing up as line inputs, but there is no network there for it to see mic pres on.

I'll post again tomorrow after we get through the test session tomorrow with the Vista, an SD-7, and a Profile on the network. Wish us luck. ;-)

Mac

[mackerr]

James, et al,

When we install the latest firmware on the RockNet card it does in fact let you set the I/O in blocks of 8 like a Studer MADI card. Jeremy and I stand corrected. Now it seems that since the card is emulating a Studer stage rack, it only has 48 mic ins, since there are only 12 slots in the rack. at this point I cannot add another RN card to get more mic pre control, all my hubs are full. I am hoping that even though they do not show up as inputs in Surveyor that they do in fact exist as line in via the remaining input ports of the MADI slot.

On another note, why is the hardest thing to make work on a digital console the PFL? I have a couple of near fields plugged into the PFL out, and individual channel PFL works fine. I also have 12 of the Source Selector buttons (5-16)  set up to monitor 12 of the stereo mixes I am doing. When I select the mix I want with those buttons I see the meters working, but I can't make sound come out of any of the ports on the back of the console. I had this working last year, what am I forgetting this year.

I will send this to James and Paul in an email as well.

Mac

[Tunnicliffe, James]

See comments below.

 

From: studer...@googlegroups.com [mailto:studer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mackerr

Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:48 PM
To: studer...@googlegroups.com

Cc: apro...@nycitycenter.org; Tunnicliffe, James
Subject: Re: Madi question

 

James, et al,

 

When we install the latest firmware on the RockNet card it does in fact let you set the I/O in blocks of 8 like a Studer MADI card. Jeremy and I stand corrected. Now it seems that since the card is emulating a Studer stage rack, it only has 48 mic ins, since there are only 12 slots in the rack. at this point I cannot add another RN card to get more mic pre control, all my hubs are full. I am hoping that even though they do not show up as inputs in Surveyor that they do in fact exist as line in via the remaining input ports of the MADI slot.

Yes, if you haven’t capped the card at 48, they’ll show up as MADI inputs.  Gain can be adjusted in RockWorks.  BTW, have you set the Studer console up as the gain master, gain slave, or neither?

 

On another note, why is the hardest thing to make work on a digital console the PFL? I have a couple of near fields plugged into the PFL out, and individual channel PFL works fine. I also have 12 of the Source Selector buttons (5-16)  set up to monitor 12 of the stereo mixes I am doing. When I select the mix I want with those buttons I see the meters working, but I can't make sound come out of any of the ports on the back of the console. I had this working last year, what am I forgetting this year.

Hmmm – that’s an odd one.  Obviously, make sure you’re using the “Ch Master Stereo DirOut” when you set up the monitoring in the Admin->Edit Monitor File.

Also, check in your shared processes that you can see the patches going from those Stereo Masters change as you toggle through them.

[mackerr]

I posted this a few minutes ago, but it seems to have vanished into the great ether of the Interwebs.

Just a follow up now that the gig is over and the "don't post on the Internet" rule is no longer in effect. Everything went well, although we leaned a few lessons along the way. Our original plan of having the RockNet distribution system be the master clock for both the Vista 5 in video control, and the SD7 at FOH seemed to leave some low level crackling on the SD7. We made the SD7 the master to RN, and the Vista clocked to RN, and all was well.

The fact that the RN card only has control of 48 of the 64 mic inputs connected to it is a bit of a PITA, but we were able to get enough gain control via the digital trim, but it was maxed out. It also has a small anomaly that I still haven't figured out. Sometimes the digital trim level would show up as the top row of the Vistonics panels, sometimes it would not. On the final show day I was never able to see that display. I don't know what was different between the times I saw it and when I didn't. Next year I will find room for 2 RN cards. This will get me more than the 64 channels we had this year (we used 62) and will give me more than enough mic pre controls. It will probably require another D21 hub though. There are only 2 slots left in the current config of 2 hubs, and there are other issues to use those last 2 slots.

The other issues are the AES digital interface to the Riedel Artist matrix comm system. While the audio I/O and routing worked fine using AES, in the Artist, the AES ports are single 2ch ports vs the analog ports which are individual single channel ports. Using the 2nd audio channel of the AES ports was easy, but there is only one Vox circuit per port, so the tally light that tells you who is calling on a multi channel comm panel would light for both channels whenever either of the channels sharing the AES port talked. This is not a huge deal, but I will try to go analog again next time. That uses 2 more slots to get 16x16 though.

The only 2 things I missed on the console was some integrated FX and a second monitoring path. In mixing the 2 bands on the awards night I would rather have had some FX of my own rather than having to just take what their FOH engineers used. The plan looked good on paper, not quite so much in real life. The FX from FOH didn't necessarily sound good in a control room going to video vs the live band in the room with the audience. The second monitoring path would have been useful for a second operator to mix from the 3rd input bay on headphones while I worked with the bands during soundcheck. We still had live events going on that needed attention during soundcheck, and I had to pretty much set and forget them in order to deal with the entertainment.

Thanks everyone who helped out, learning by doing is usually the best way to learn, but it may not be the smoothest. Everyone at CGI was very happy with the result, and we well be doing it all again next year.

Mac

[mackerr]

Topic swerve (even farther)

This may only be of interest to those of you who have Riedel Artist comm systems. It turns out that there may not be the issue I described earlier. I was under the impression, as were several Riedel specialists I talked to, that to use the digital I/O I needed to use only the odd numbered ports, and enable the second audio channel on each of them. This is what causes the problem with the vox circuit. It now seems that you do not need to do that. If you use the eight ports as 8 mono ports instead 4 stereo ports the even numbered ports seem to automatically take their audio from the 2nd audio channel of the previous port. This would mean there is a vox for each channel.

Unfortunately I don't have the system to test this on anymore. It looks like it will work though.

Mac