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Aren't all sciences versions of applied Knowledge Representation Ontology also known as the Sowa Diamond? http://www.jfsowa.com/ontology/toplevel.htmAleksandar
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On Sep 5, 2018, at 09:14, Lenard Troncale <lrtro...@cpp.edu> wrote:Joe and Teams,
I think your summary of Warfield’s “minimal, necessary context for support of the activity of science” 4 components indicates why John and I had so many disagreements about systems science in our day. Please note that all 4 are on the human level ONLY.
There is nothing there about experiments, applying the scientific method, hypotheses, past results, falsifiability, measuring & empirical approaches,
or arranging nature to tell us how SHE works and not how WE HUMANS work.
Missing these might explain the human role in trying to do science, but it does not explicate in any way the essentials of doing science IMHO.
And so his tools might be great for helping humans begin to recognize how their human problems are really systems-level problems, but they do little to harvest and apply the “way nature has settled down to work” or its prescriptions to our newly developing human systems.
On Sep 5, 2018, at 10:56, Lenard Troncale <lrtro...@cpp.edu> wrote:Joe,
I love this repartee and extended questions you pose. However, they do expose our different worldviews quite explicitly. I do not think at all that humans are the only sentient and conscious beings in the universe. Over my 40 years of teaching evolution, I consistently told my students that due to the universal architecture and behavior of the universe there were undoubtedly other planetary systems. And on some of those there would be intelligent life. That seemed a pure speculation during those decades.
But now we know that exoplanets exist and there are numerous examples. Who could have predicted that such evidence would emerge in my own lifetime?
I mock exoplanet experts in their search for water (now seen on both the moon and Mars). Given a general systems viewpoint, water is not necessary for intelligent life at all.
Something at drastically different temperatures and densities might have similar properties as water for analogues in silicon instead of carbon. All this just shows how terribly limited human thinking is. Completely limited to our ways and conditions. Now I do not want to get into the possibilities of alien life or not, or civilizations or not, or their nature or not, because such questions cannot be answered clearly yet. So why get into endless debates. I think the writing is on the wall though.
Notice how this changes your questions below. Yes to all.
It might not be human science or human language and it might be better capacity for reasoning than we presently have, but science, or the mechanics of how nature’s systems work are enduring patterns that should exist and can be found whether we are the lone intelligent beings in the universe or just one of many.
Open your minds. Dogma and humanocentrism are the mind-killers. I am having fun.
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Re: Pragmatic Semiotic Information • Discussion 10
Artem Kaznatcheev posted an interesting discussion on his blog under the title “Models as Maps and Maps as Interfaces” that I saw as fitting under this head. A reader of Peirce may recognize critical insights of pragmatic thought cropping up toward the end of his analysis, prompting me to add the following comment:
Map and “mirror of nature” metaphors take us a good distance in understanding how creatures represent their worlds to themselves and others. But from a pragmatic semiotic point of view we can see how these metaphors lock us into iconic forms of representation, overstretching dyadic relations, and thus falling short of the full power of triadic symbolic relations that support practical interaction with the world.
Regards,
Jon
inquiry into inquiry: https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/
academia: https://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey
oeiswiki: https://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
isw: http://intersci.ss.uci.edu/wiki/index.php/JLA
facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/JonnyCache
Cf: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2018/08/21/pragmatic-semiotic-information-%cf%88/
Ontologists, Systers, Modelers,
I remember it was back in '76 when I began to notice a subtle shift of
focus in the computer science journals I was reading, from discussing X
to discussing Information About X, or X → Info(X) as I came to notate it.
I suppose this small arc of revolution had been building for years but it
struck me as crossing a threshold to a more explicit, self-conscious stage
about that time.
And thereby hangs a number of tales ...
Jon
Perhaps a different approach that should be investigated is represented here:
http://rsfs.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/8/6/20180041.full
From: syss...@googlegroups.com <syss...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jon Awbrey
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 11:35 AM
To: Sys Sci Discussion List <syss...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [SysSciWG] Re: Pragmatic Semiotic Information (Ψ)
Artem Kaznatcheev posted an interesting discussion on his blog under the title “Models as Maps and Maps as Interfaces” that I saw as fitting under this head A reader of Peirce may recognize critical insights of pragmatic thought cropping up toward the end of his analysis, prompting me to add the following comment:
Map and “mirror of nature” metaphors take us a good distance in understanding how creatures represent their worlds to themselves and others. But from a pragmatic semiotic point of view we can see how these metaphors lock us into iconic forms of representation, overstretching dyadic relations, and thus falling short of the full power of triadic symbolic relations that support practical interaction with the world.
Regards,
Jon
inquiry into inquiry: https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/
academia: https://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey
oeiswiki: https://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
isw: http://intersci.ss.uci.edu/wiki/index.php/JLA
facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/JonnyCache
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Information = Comprehension × Extension
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