Is there anybody out there...

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jupiter

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Jun 15, 2011, 11:03:01 PM6/15/11
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Hi All,

I'm about to start on a project to embed a vm into a low memory, low
capability, device and are looking around for starting points. Being a
smalltalk freak (I think that's what we're called), StrongTalk looked
like a possible candidate.

Does anyone still frequent this list?

Is there anyone still working with StrongTalk?

Cheers,

Phil

Robert Shiplett

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Jun 16, 2011, 8:22:50 AM6/16/11
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Yes - just as I follow Slate, CUIS, Self

Smalltalker

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Ron Teitelbaum

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Jun 16, 2011, 9:31:12 AM6/16/11
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Hi Phil,

Nod if you can hear me, is there any one home? ...

I'm following but Eliot's Cog work is extremely exciting. I would checkout
the squeak community. There is some really good people there and it is a
very active community.

Ron Teitelbaum

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Max OrHai

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Jun 16, 2011, 12:45:25 PM6/16/11
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In particular, SqueakNOS is more active than this project, and may be what you're looking for, jupiter. I believe it can make use of the Cog VM, too. Cog has gotten much more attention than Strongtalk, although I don't know about the comparative performance. I'm hoping that this project will be revived eventually...

-- Max

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Robert Shiplett

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Jun 16, 2011, 3:13:58 PM6/16/11
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not to miss
http://pharo-project.org
either

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Joe Blake (Lucky Phil)

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Jun 16, 2011, 4:45:08 PM6/16/11
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Thanks guys for replying. It's nice to see there are still followers even if there's no activity at the moment.

I'm also looking at Cog as it does appear to be the most active of all the open smalltalks. I've checked out SqueakNOS as well.

The target is likely to be ARM and Cortex and I'm hoping to do as little work as possible to port the VM :)

Again, thanks. Hopefully with Pharo the smalltalk community will keep growing.

Cheers

Joe Blake (Lucky Phil)

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Jun 16, 2011, 4:50:53 PM6/16/11
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Nod :)

I use pharo daily as most of my work is in GemStone. It's a great environment.

My reason for looking beyond squeak and cog was to see if there was a very light-weight smalltalk vm out there. I was talking to Lars about OOVM many years back, but Esmertec (or whatever they're  called now) have it tied up in their other products.

Anyway, the search continues and I'll put some more time into understanding cog.

Cheers
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Steve Rees

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Jun 16, 2011, 5:13:03 PM6/16/11
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If ARM is your target the Squeak interpreter is probably your best choice. Cog and Strongtalk both support x86 only for now, though I know it is Eliot's intention to support other processors.

As far as Strongtalk goes I've moved my efforts to github and have mainly been working on Brazil for Cocoa for Newspeak.

Regards, Steve

On Jun 16, 2011 9:45 PM, "Joe Blake (Lucky Phil)" <ph...@tcp.net.au> wrote:

nice

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Jun 19, 2011, 4:25:23 AM6/19/11
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COG has two flavours

1) An accelerated Squeak interpreter (so called StackVM) - that should
work where Squeak VM works
2) A JIT VM working only on x86 by now, but with an open architecture
for extension on other CPU.

Big plus, the JIT is written in Smalltalk (slang).
Of course, even if JIT architecture is open, someone with knowledge of
machine instructions/registers/etc... for the specific target has to
do the job.

Nicolas
> On Jun 16, 2011 9:45 PM, "Joe Blake (Lucky Phil)" <p...@tcp.net.au> wrote:

Joe Blake (Lucky Phil)

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Jun 19, 2011, 6:42:44 PM6/19/11
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Hi Nicolas,

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at COG at the moment. Like you say it's open, and as it's the most active of the projects, it seems like a good idea to start working on ARM extensions for COG.

I'm sure there will be a lot more discussion on this on the COG lists.

Cheers,

Phil

Jecel Assumpcao Jr.

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Jun 19, 2011, 4:06:39 PM6/19/11
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One detail about Cog is that it is currently just a dynamic compiler
(JIT), not an adaptive compiler like Strongtalk, Self or Java Hotspot.
Having Cog be an adaptive compiler was in the roadmap from the very
beginning and it is now being worked on, but the situation right now is
that it is not a Strongtalk replacement.

Note that Russell Allen has single-handedly brought Self back from the
dead, so you might want to look at that:

http://selflanguage.org/

Though if you are interested in tiny implementations, Self was always
known as very large. It hasn't grown much over the years, however, while
the stuff it used to be compared with has, so by today's standard it
might actually be what you are looking for.

-- Jecel

Ron Teitelbaum

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Jun 19, 2011, 10:03:15 PM6/19/11
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That is true. Eliot is still actively working on it and I believe that
there is another 1 to 2 years work to do.

All the best,

Ron Teitelbaum
Immersive Collaboration Expert
3d Immersive Collaboration Consultants
R...@3dicc.com
Follow me on Twitter
twitter.com/RonTeitelbaum
www.3dicc.com

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