SWMM-USERS Digest - 6 Apr 2012 to 9 Apr 2012 (#2012-34)
SWMM-USERS automatic digest system
Topics of the day:
1. SWMM LID BMP runoff disposition (3)
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 09:32:52 -0500
From: "Gene L. Rovak" <gro...@HORNERSHIFRIN.COM>
Subject: SWMM LID BMP runoff disposition
I've modeled BMPs of various configurations using earlier SWMM releases but wonder if I've been overlooking something in the LID editor.
The LID feature allows use of an underdrain system (see Figure 3-8 for a definition diagram and the pulldown entry menu with underdrain tab in LID controls) but I have been unable to rout flow to from the underdrain separately from the surface runoff.
While the effect of facility storage and infiltration are valid regardless of the underdrain system, the excess components (runoff and underdrain flow) are at times handled separately in the real world, e.g. where the overflow may be routed to a pond, while the underdrain leads to the outflow structure thus bypassing the pond.
In such cases running the model with an underdrain but has no effect on the pond performance. Since the underdrain and overflow are computed separately internally, perhaps there a way that I've overlooked to use the LID features to continue this separation to separate outflows? So far, we've had to use workarounds or make separate models in the same manner as before LID was incorporated into SWMM.
If I haven't overlooked anything, perhaps a subsequent release will incorporate this separation?
Respectfully,
Gene L. Rovak, P.E., CFM
Senior Project Manager
Horner & Shifrin, Inc.
St. Louis, MO. 63110-1490
PH: (314) 531-4321 Direct (314) 335-8615
FAX: (314) 531-6966
www.hornershifrin.com
The information contained in this message and any attachments is confidential, and intended only for the named recipient(s). If you are not a named recipient, please destroy this message and notify the sender immediately; and do not disseminate, copy, or distribute this message. No employee or agent is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of Horner & Shifrin, Inc., with another party by email, without express written confirmation by a corporate officer. Since e-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free (because information could be corrupted, lost, intercepted, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses), the sender accepts no liability for problems with the contents of this message that result from its electronic transmission.
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 09:10:23 -0600
From: Robert Dickinson <Robert.E....@INNOVYZE.COM>
Subject: Re: SWMM LID BMP runoff disposition
Hi Gene,
Underdrain flow or drainFlow is just a water balance component such as inflow, evap, infil, initial volume and final volume, it does not have a way to connect to the rest of the subcatchment as does surface flow. It is separately accounted for in the code and potentially can be sent somewhere other than the current mass balance output table.
Robert Dickinson
Innovyze Inc.
9340 Pontiac Drive Tel: 813-712-0664
Tampa, Florida USA 33626
robert.d...@innovyze.com
www.innovyze.com
-----Original Message-----
From: SWMM-USERS [mailto:SWMM-...@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA] On Behalf Of Gene L. Rovak
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 10:33 AM
To: SWMM-...@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA
Subject: [SWMM-USERS] SWMM LID BMP runoff disposition
I've modeled BMPs of various configurations using earlier SWMM releases but wonder if I've been overlooking something in the LID editor.
The LID feature allows use of an underdrain system (see Figure 3-8 for a definition diagram and the pulldown entry menu with underdrain tab in LID controls) but I have been unable to rout flow to from the underdrain separately from the surface runoff.
While the effect of facility storage and infiltration are valid regardless of the underdrain system, the excess components (runoff and underdrain flow) are at times handled separately in the real world, e.g. where the overflow may be routed to a pond, while the underdrain leads to the outflow structure thus bypassing the pond.
In such cases running the model with an underdrain but has no effect on the pond performance. Since the underdrain and overflow are computed separately internally, perhaps there a way that I've overlooked to use the LID features to continue this separation to separate outflows? So far, we've had to use workarounds or make separate models in the same manner as before LID was incorporated into SWMM.
If I haven't overlooked anything, perhaps a subsequent release will incorporate this separation?
Respectfully,
Gene L. Rovak, P.E., CFM
Senior Project Manager
Horner & Shifrin, Inc.
St. Louis, MO. 63110-1490
PH: (314) 531-4321 Direct (314) 335-8615
FAX: (314) 531-6966
www.hornershifrin.com
The information contained in this message and any attachments is confidential, and intended only for the named recipient(s). If you are not a named recipient, please destroy this message and notify the sender immediately; and do not disseminate, copy, or distribute this message. No employee or agent is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of Horner & Shifrin, Inc., with another party by email, without express written confirmation by a corporate officer. Since e-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free (because information could be corrupted, lost, intercepted, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses), the sender accepts no liability for problems with the contents of this message that result from its electronic transmission.
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:22:30 -0400
From: Lewis Rossman <Rossma...@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV>
Subject: Re: SWMM LID BMP runoff disposition
Gene is correct - both LID underdrain flow and LID runoff flow are sent
to the subcatchment's outlet. Others have also complained about this
limitation and we will try to provide a separate outlet destination
option for underdrains in the next maintenance release.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis Rossman
Environmental Scientist
Water Supply and Water Resources Division
U.S Environmental Protection Agency
email: rossma...@epa.gov
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End of SWMM-USERS Digest - 6 Apr 2012 to 9 Apr 2012 (#2012-34)
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Lee Sherman
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Mike and Melony Mont-Eton
What version are you running? You may have 4.0, since it is asking for .dat. I think it would be a good idea to check out this forum: http://swmmconversion.ning.com/forum/topics/1848646:Topic:16?id=1848646%3ATopic%3A16&page=2#comments
Hope this helps.
Mike
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:01:18 -0700
From: lee_c_...@yahoo.com
Subject: External Precip File
To: stormwaterma...@googlegroups.com
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Lee Sherman
From: Mike and Melony Mont-Eton <mmon...@hotmail.com>
To: stormwaterma...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: External Precip File