Better balance for SOL

[aub...@live.com]

I think that too much emphasis is put on catering to the readers and not enough to the authors. Without authors, there would be no SOL, just as without readers, there would be no SOL. I would like to see more balance. Lazeez, are you listening?

The main thing that I would like to see, even if it was kept private to the authors, is a true rendition of the score from voting. Yes, that is still a very sore point with me, and I am having a hell of a time getting over it. I am sure that other authors would like to see other changes.

Does anyone agree with me? I don't mean just on scores, but in general.

-- aubie56

[Switch Blayde]

I agree with you.

I also would like to see the real score. And I'd like to see the numbers behind the bar graph (how many 10s, 9s, etc.).

Switch
["Sexual Awakening" (full length novel) at: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L1VHIZC ]

[stories at http://storiesonline.net/auth/Switch_Blayde ]
[Twitter at https://twitter.com/swblayde ]
[discussion group/blog at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/switch_blayde_group/ ]
 

---

Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 08:27:11 -0700
From: aub...@live.com
To: storie...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Better balance for SOL

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[Lazeez Jiddan]

Here we go. Again!

On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, aub...@live.com wrote:

I think that too much emphasis is put on catering to the readers and not enough to the authors. Without authors, there would be no SOL, just as without readers, there would be no SOL. I would like to see more balance. Lazeez, are you listening?

I’m listening.

I swore to never discuss scores ever again. And yet, every week somebody either contacts me directly about them or brings them up on here.

The main thing that I would like to see, even if it was kept private to the authors, is a true rendition of the score from voting. Yes, that is still a very sore point with me, and I am having a hell of a time getting over it. I am sure that other authors would like to see other changes.

Does anyone agree with me? I don't mean just on scores, but in general.

What other changes? Have you ever asked for a reasonable feature and I declined?

I once modified the site extensively to support series and universes at the request of an author. Funny thing is that as soon as I finished the modification, and announced the changes on the site, the same day the author who asked for them removed his stories from the site never to be heard from again. I didn’t regret it of course because it made the site better, but still...

I would be very happy to hear about anything other than scores. I do my best to implement whatever authors ask for (within reason) other than the scoring system reversion to a basic (meaning USELESS) scoring system.

If you guys promise to never bother me again with the scoring system, I would be willing to implement a private (author’s eyes only) stats pages that shows the vote-average score and vote distribution with count, but it will have to be on strict personal demand, that means it won’t be accessible to authors unless I specifically grant the author account the permission to view it. And anybody who asks for that permission must promise to never ever ever discuss scores again and never make any demands for any changes to the scoring system and that permission disables the ability to turn off voting.

Can you make such a deal?

-- 

Lazeez Jiddan

http://storiesonline.net/

[Switch Blayde]

Lazeez, I would love that feature (author's eyes only stat page), but cannot make that promise. I keep my word and simply don't know what discussion will occur in the future.

Switch
["Sexual Awakening" (full length novel) at: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L1VHIZC ]

[stories at http://storiesonline.net/auth/Switch_Blayde ]
[Twitter at https://twitter.com/swblayde ]
[discussion group/blog at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/switch_blayde_group/ ]
 

---

From: laz...@storiesonline.net
Subject: Re: Better balance for SOL
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:41:05 +0300
To: storie...@googlegroups.com

[Joe "Bondi" Beach]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Lazeez Jiddan <laz...@storiesonline.net> wrote:

If you guys promise to never bother me again with the scoring system, I would be willing to implement a private (author’s eyes only) stats pages that shows the vote-average score and vote distribution with count, but it will have to be on strict personal demand, that means it won’t be accessible to authors unless I specifically grant the author account the permission to view it. And anybody who asks for that permission must promise to never ever ever discuss scores again and never make any demands for any changes to the scoring system and that permission disables the ability to turn off voting.

Can you make such a deal?

Yes. Sign me up, please.

bb

-- 

A 2014 NaNoWriMo winner!

Micol, slightly revised and with all three stories together, is now available free directly from me in ePub format, or from Mediafire. Download my other stories, all but one for free, from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Lulu, iTunes and Storiesonline. They're also on my Tumblr blog. 

[Invid Fan]

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 11:46:06 AM UTC-4, Switch Blayde wrote:

I agree with you.

I also would like to see the real score. And I'd like to see the numbers behind the bar graph (how many 10s, 9s, etc.).

I kind of like not having numbers. For a few years I played Clan Lord, a mostly mac only online RPG from the creators of Spaceward, Ho!. There were no stats for anything that the player could see. You had to determine your abilities based on how you performed. If a familiar creature attacked you and suddenly started missing, your defense was now stronger than his attack. It was rather nice, and realistic. Mind you, nothing on this site is realistic in the first place so that doesn't matter. 

[Kinkywinks]

 Mark me down as wanting to know what the real numbers are, mainly because when I look at the bar graphs and 7 is half as tall as the 8's, 9's, and 10's and the score is in the 7's ??? it just ain't right. I guess I could blame my confusion on my grade school teacher that taught me that 2 + 2 = 4.  By the time I started college level courses I had accepted it to be set in stone. Then I tried to figure out the scoring on SOL. I'm sorry Guys, it is just plain Bullshit.

 That being said, if the bullshit is the same for everybody, it has to be said, that it is equal for you and me. I once told an Algebra teacher that the only reason for learning it was so it could be taught to someone else because there are no X's and Y's in the real world, and at the age of 70 I still have not seen any. So, the only reason to understand the SOL scoring system would be to show it to someone else and I hope I never see it anywhere in the real world.

[Deadly Ernest]

Aubie,

I both agree and disagree with you. Lazeez does do a lot to help the authors, but it costs him a lot of money in the way of hardware, service fees, and access fees to provide the site; as well as his time. He pays for this through the subscriptions of the readers, fail to get enough readers and the site loses too much money and it gets closed down (as I've seen happen with other sites) then us authors have no where to post our stories.

Authors and readers and site managers live in a very complex symbionic relationship that's extremely hard to balance. Lazeez does a far better job of the balancing than I've seen in most other sites, and I'm quite happy with the way things are.

As to what the site offers, at times I've asked Lazeez for a few changes, in a couple of cases he explained why it would be too expensive or difficult to do what I asked for, but most of the time he does deliver on my requests, and in a timely manner as well.

As to score and downloads, I've got two things to say:

1. I'm happy with what i see in the way of the scores because they're applied in a uniform manner to all, and I'm happy with the download figure.

2. I usually don't look at the scores or downloads except when I need to for a discussion involving them.

Lazeez,

I like the bar graph for the score stats, but would also like to the see raw numbers for each graph beside or below them because it's hard to extimate what each one gets.

Regards,

Ernest

[Deadly Ernest]

Kinky,

The system is applied uniformly, it has a weight adjustment component and it also kicks out the top and bottom 5% as outliers to kill fanbois and hatebois. Because it's applied uniformly I've no worries about what the displayed score is.

Oddly enough, I'm in my sixties and have often found algebra very useful in the real world when calculating odd items and relative values - eg comapring the values of different sized containers of edibles. I use basic algebaic equations to get a common relative value - also good for working out materials for construction etc.

Ernest

[Invid Fan]

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 10:15:01 PM UTC-4, Deadly Ernest wrote:

Lazeez,

I like the bar graph for the score stats, but would also like to the see raw numbers for each graph beside or below them because it's hard to extimate what each one gets.

You can figure out the numbers exactly if you break out a ruler, as he does give you the data of the highest score. Measure the bar, divide it by whatever the count is, and you can then apply that to the other bars. 

[Zine]

Lazeez,

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but maybe that's a good thing.

I've never cared what my scores were, or what they weren't. I didn't write for the fanbois, the accolades, the awards, or even my fellow writers. I wrote for me. I still write for me, no matter what it is. Maybe some of you have forgotten your roots.

Zine.

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 12:41:33 PM UTC-4, Lazeez wrote:

Here we go. Again!

On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, aub...@live.com wrote:

I think that too much emphasis is put on catering to the readers and not enough to the authors. Without authors, there would be no SOL, just as without readers, there would be no SOL. I would like to see more balance. Lazeez, are you listening?

I’m listening.

I swore to never discuss scores ever again. And yet, every week somebody either contacts me directly about them or brings them up on here.

Exactly. I've heard all I've ever wanted to hear on scores, and then some. And you promised, Laz.

The main thing that I would like to see, even if it was kept private to the authors, is a true rendition of the score from voting. Yes, that is still a very sore point with me, and I am having a hell of a time getting over it.

I'm pretty sure prima donnas thrive in both camps.

[Wheezer]

I'm fine with the scores.  I'm one of the least prolific writers on SOL,  ;) but I still like to be able to have an idea how well my stories are doing.  I get that information from the stats as they are.

[ElSol]

What is the point of being able to see your own raw blah-blah-blah score if you can't see anybody else's?

At the core, it's dick measuring. I'll admit it -- it gives me an ego boost to be high 7 with moments where I power over an 8, and really I don't care if it is only in Laz's eyes that I'm that big... Err, score that high.

But if Laz is offering, I'd like author names to be tagged with penises representing their average score. Then we can REALLY dick measure!!!

And ooh ooh... It would be awesome if we could provide the picture of the dick we want used that he could scale down to our score.

[Deadly Ernest]

And we'd end up with lots of photos of politicians on the site, no thanks.

[Invid Fan]

For some reason I now want to write an all lesbian story called "Sausage Feast".

[rbhol...@charter.net]

I personally think the balance is fine the way it stands now.  I am not sure but a better count would seem to be the downloads count instead of the so-called score ratings.  Writers can get counts based on chapter or the entire story I believe.  Those should tell how well the story is liked.  I have no idea how many readers (like me) never vote for whatever reasons although I do make a point to send a note of thanks to the writer for each story I read.  Although realistically I am thankful to all the writers and editors for sharing their abilities with everyone regardless of the genre or codes used in the story blurb.   I do know I tend to wait until a story has several chapters posted before I start reading and tend to read longer stories instead of short ones.  Because of that I do miss a few that are in the new story category although I do check it.  I try to show respect and appreciation for the site by making sure I only open approximately half the number of stories daily that are allowed for non-premium users (I do fail at times).  


Regardless of what is posted if its legal and doesn't put the site in danger I am grateful.  Hopefully all the stories will continue being posted and available to everyone for their reading pleasure.

[Tim Merrigan]

I think you should drop scores entirely.  I don't think they serve any purpose other than as and ego boost for the authors.

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[Crumbly Writer]

I'm of a mixed mind. Like Switch said, I'm unsure what any future discussion on scoring will turn to, and knowing the site/forum, I'm sure that there will be MANY more discussions concerning scoring. I'd like to see the full range of numbers, but it won't hurt me if I can't. For the most part, I end up explaining and defending your scoring systems, providing other ways of considering it (I don't think that scores are a be-all and end-all for authors).

However, those that really object to scoring admit that they have an unhealthy fascination with the details, so I'm not sure you can end such worries with a fiat. Some of us just need to go cold turkey and turn of scoring altogether, that that leaves the readers high and dry.

[ElSol]

I can see a use for an author-only raw average or whatever Aubie is asking for because it tells me what MY readers think of the story, BUT... And here is why if I were Lazeez, I would flat-out say 'NO!'... Who wants to bet money that if a raw average or any other of view of scores that is HIGHER than the Reader view score does not cause a FUCKSTORM of bitching, whining, and screaming?

I don't give a fuck what somebody promises Laz about not 'talking about scoring' -- when/if the scores are materially different and the new author-only score favors the author then that promise will get pissed and shit on because the writer ego does not give a flying a fuck if its feelings are hurt. And if Laz doesn't respond to the second set of demands (after he made them promise to shut it), some people will take their ball and go home.

I am absolutely included in that -- if the raw score for a story that is a 7 in one system but an 8 in another, I will be a crying little bitch about 'Hey, why can't we just show the reader BOTH scores.'

Especially new writers -- Dear God, new writers who opt-in will flip their fucking wigs!!! You know, that might be a reason to do it and opt-everybody in... I want to see this forum implode with writers crying their eyes out that the 'author-score' is higher and that should be the system.

[Deadly Ernest]

G'day ES,

You're so right about how some will react.

In the past few years we've had a few authors pull their stories and walk away because they didn't like the way the scores were done. One of them even posted a couple of sites where they got better scores. I went and looked at some of the top scoring stories on those sites and understood why they got better scores there. On the two sites where they got 9s & 10s the top scores would be equal to about 5s and 6s at SOL - the level of skill and story development was just so low it wasn't funny, but then the majority of stories there were short stroke stories. This is why it's not possible to really compare performances on different sites. That and different readerships.

Ernest

[ElSol]

Can we get back to my 'Dick Measuring Scoring System'? I have thought this through to be fair to everyone.

If the author has five or less stories, the dick has an engagement ring for a cock ring AND a main stone fo the the first story with one side stone for additional stories for up to four sidestones.

After five stories, you lose the cock ring but the dick gets 'thicker' based on how many total stories... Although if Laz goes 3D we can also account for total volume in Kbs worth of stories.

Old authors (like been posting for years), get grey pubes... newbies with < 1 year get no pubes.

If more than 50% of the stories are no-sex, the dick is flaccid.

Obviously, since I am a modern day feminist, female writers can opt-in to use breasts or a dick that has leather straps to make it obvious that it is a dildo.

I think we should an email campaign to Laz about it!!!

[Deadly Ernest]

Only one major problem with this, ES, Lazeez is very busy working on the site code for SOL and FS so they can be the same code for both sites and simplify his admin work on them, and because such a system can't be used on FS it would nullify his unified code concept - thus I don't see it happening.

ernest

[ElSol]

I ignore your reality and superimpose my perfect world of big-cocked teenagers with superpowers who are worshipped and fucked silly by harems of women.

Ooooh... I wrote an homage story to Simon of mcstories... I think it is time for a new Male Protagonist template named Lazeez. Anybody know what kind of stories Lazeez favors (and don't even fucking say 'a finished AMR').

[Wheezer]

I think Lazeez is like the rest of us and just wishes GMW would finish Spitfire & Messerschmitt. :P 

[Deadly Ernest]

I wouldn't know about that, in line with my 'no yellow stripe' policy I never started reading that one; and many others.

[Sam]

How about Las Viejas? Or maybe 3 A.M. Eternal?
:-)

[The Black Knight]

Wheezer allegedly wrote:

I think Lazeez is like the rest of us and just wishes GMW would finish Spitfire & Messerschmitt. :P 

Which now is pushed back another couple months, due to it being mentioned. (Gina did claim that every time the completion of that one gets mentioned, she adds time to how long before she'll work on it.)  Besides, LAH was better than S&M.

[Switch Blayde]

Lazeez, after reading the crap posted in this thread I emphasize with you. You'll never win.

As I said, I won't promise. It would be an empty promise, which I don't make. I'll just give you my reason for wanting to see the raw score and the numbers for each score.

I don't care much about scores. The only time I check them is when the story is new. I surely don't care how my scores compare to other authors. But I'm always trying to improve and the raw score provides some information. The SOL score doesn't because it's not how people scored my story. That's the only reason I want the raw score.

[Stephen Adams]

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 11:41:33 AM UTC-5, Lazeez wrote:

Here we go. Again!

On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, aub...@live.com wrote:

I think that too much emphasis is put on catering to the readers and not enough to the authors. Without authors, there would be no SOL, just as without readers, there would be no SOL. I would like to see more balance. Lazeez, are you listening?

I’m listening.

I swore to never discuss scores ever again. And yet, every week somebody either contacts me directly about them or brings them up on here.

The main thing that I would like to see, even if it was kept private to the authors, is a true rendition of the score from voting. Yes, that is still a very sore point with me, and I am having a hell of a time getting over it. I am sure that other authors would like to see other changes.

Does anyone agree with me? I don't mean just on scores, but in general.

What other changes? Have you ever asked for a reasonable feature and I declined?

I once modified the site extensively to support series and universes at the request of an author. Funny thing is that as soon as I finished the modification, and announced the changes on the site, the same day the author who asked for them removed his stories from the site never to be heard from again. I didn’t regret it of course because it made the site better, but still...

I would be very happy to hear about anything other than scores. I do my best to implement whatever authors ask for (within reason) other than the scoring system reversion to a basic (meaning USELESS) scoring system.

If you guys promise to never bother me again with the scoring system, I would be willing to implement a private (author’s eyes only) stats pages that shows the vote-average score and vote distribution with count, but it will have to be on strict personal demand, that means it won’t be accessible to authors unless I specifically grant the author account the permission to view it. And anybody who asks for that permission must promise to never ever ever discuss scores again and never make any demands for any changes to the scoring system and that permission disables the ability to turn off voting.

Can you make such a deal?

-- 

Lazeez Jiddan

http://storiesonline.net/

Absolutely. Sign me up! I promise never, ever to discuss scores in public again. :-) 

[Lazeez Jiddan]

On Aug 15, 2015, at 4:36 AM, Stephen Adams <pengui...@gmail.com> wrote:

Absolutely. Sign me up! I promise never, ever to discuss scores in public again. :-) 

The changes has been implemented. However wants in must contact me through the Webmaster link.

[aub...@live.com]

The change fixed all of my complaints. I am very happy with the system now! Thanks, Lazeez.

-- aubie56

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 11:27:11 AM UTC-4, aub...@live.com wrote:

I think that too much emphasis is put on catering to the readers and not enough to the authors. Without authors, there would be no SOL, just as without readers, there would be no SOL. I would like to see more balance. Lazeez, are you listening?

The main thing that I would like to see, even if it was kept private to the authors, is a true rendition of the score from voting. Yes, that is still a very sore point with me, and I am having a hell of a time getting over it. I am sure that other authors would like to see other changes.

Does anyone agree with me? I don't mean just on scores, but in general.

-- aubie56

[Joe "Bondi" Beach]

I don't think it breaks my promise never to discuss scores in public again to say that the change is super. Thanks, Lazeez.

bb

-- 

A 2014 NaNoWriMo winner!

Micol, slightly revised and with all three stories together, is now available free directly from me in ePub format, or from Mediafire. Download my other stories, all but one for free, from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Lulu, iTunes and Storiesonline. They're also on my Tumblr blog. 

[perv...@gmail.com]

You also get the total vote count, and the exact height of each bar can be seen by viewing the page source. With a little math you should be able to get pretty close to backing into the original raw data.

[Kinkywinks]

I'm happy, I now have real numbers to work with. I just do not like the unknown values in the graphs.

[Kim Little]

On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 3:59:52 AM UTC+10, ElSol wrote:

But if Laz is offering, I'd like author names to be tagged with penises representing their average score. Then we can REALLY dick measure!!!

What if you don't have a dick? 

[Wheezer]

Depth is an equal measure to length,. but where girth is a plus factor in male comparisons, lack of girth (or tightness) is a positive in females. ;) 

[ElSol]

I was going to go with straps to signify a strap-on or a boobs option.

[Crumbly Writer]

How about a 'strokes' count, with an adjustment for women's shorter and faster strokes, and an increase for men's longer strokes. 'Cept, that seems silly for the many 'no sex' stories.