Junk mail facts
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rkhff
Jul 27, 2011, 5:50:51 PM7/27/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
One of the sections on the website currently marked as 'in desperate
need of an update' is the 'junk mail facts' section
(www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts). I've done quite a bit of work on
getting more up to date junk mail statistics, and I'm currently
rewriting all the pages.
Although some of the data I managed to get hold of is interesting (and
not publicly available anywhere else) there's a lot of data that's
missing. Statistics are mainly held by the DMA and Royal Mail, and
unfortunately they don't publish basic facts and figures about such
things as how much unaddressed junk mail and inserts are produced in
the UK. The data exists; it's just that it's not published (even Defra
has no idea as to how much junk mail there actually is!) Another issue
is the data that is available is censored / used for 'marketing'
purposes (i.e. to convince Defra / the public that junk mail isn't all
that bad).
What's needed is a strategy to get uncensored data from the junk mail
industry. My thinking is to work with other organisations
(environmental / consumer groups) on this issue. The industry is
always very reluctant to talk with ordinary folk but I reckon they'll
probably feel they have to answer perfectly sensible and important
questions coming from a coalition of interested parties. Ideas are
welcome!
need of an update' is the 'junk mail facts' section
(www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts). I've done quite a bit of work on
getting more up to date junk mail statistics, and I'm currently
rewriting all the pages.
Although some of the data I managed to get hold of is interesting (and
not publicly available anywhere else) there's a lot of data that's
missing. Statistics are mainly held by the DMA and Royal Mail, and
unfortunately they don't publish basic facts and figures about such
things as how much unaddressed junk mail and inserts are produced in
the UK. The data exists; it's just that it's not published (even Defra
has no idea as to how much junk mail there actually is!) Another issue
is the data that is available is censored / used for 'marketing'
purposes (i.e. to convince Defra / the public that junk mail isn't all
that bad).
What's needed is a strategy to get uncensored data from the junk mail
industry. My thinking is to work with other organisations
(environmental / consumer groups) on this issue. The industry is
always very reluctant to talk with ordinary folk but I reckon they'll
probably feel they have to answer perfectly sensible and important
questions coming from a coalition of interested parties. Ideas are
welcome!
West Field
Jul 29, 2011, 1:12:44 PM7/29/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Would it be possible to request this information under the F.O.I act,
not sure if the Royal Mail or the DMA would comply anyway but has to
be worth a go.
not sure if the Royal Mail or the DMA would comply anyway but has to
be worth a go.
rkhff
Jul 30, 2011, 7:41:20 AM7/30/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Thanks, that's worth a try. Royal Mail deals with FoI requests
(www2.royalmailgroup.com/who-we-are/freedom-information) though it
seems they usually refuse to give information (on the grounds that all
information is commercially sensitivite). I'd probably get a quarterly
breakdown of the number of registrations with the company's Door-to-
Door Opt-Out as this information is no longer classed as 'top secret'.
(About five years ago someone tried to get this information via a FoI
request and it was refused, but since Royal Mail has confirmed that
198,000 households were registered as at April 2009.)
I don't think the FoI Act applies to the DMA as it's a limited
company. Maybe it's best to try FoI with Royal Mail and work with
other organisations to get data from the DMA...
(www2.royalmailgroup.com/who-we-are/freedom-information) though it
seems they usually refuse to give information (on the grounds that all
information is commercially sensitivite). I'd probably get a quarterly
breakdown of the number of registrations with the company's Door-to-
Door Opt-Out as this information is no longer classed as 'top secret'.
(About five years ago someone tried to get this information via a FoI
request and it was refused, but since Royal Mail has confirmed that
198,000 households were registered as at April 2009.)
I don't think the FoI Act applies to the DMA as it's a limited
company. Maybe it's best to try FoI with Royal Mail and work with
other organisations to get data from the DMA...
West Field
Aug 1, 2011, 12:41:45 PM8/1/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Great, let us know how you get on. I can't believe that 5 years ago
someone was refused such request, at least they are now releasing such
" Sensitive" information....
What is sensitive about how many households have chosen the opt-out
scheme ??, I guess they think that should such material get published,
more people will sign up as it will be more widely known about ?, and
they wouldn't want that would they, hehehe.........
You mention other organisations that , with some support could aquire
such information, who would these be ?, for those folks who maybe
unaware of such groups.
With a list of organisations to hand, how does one, get to participate
in supporting such cause?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is the year that I am taking
Junk Mail to task.
someone was refused such request, at least they are now releasing such
" Sensitive" information....
What is sensitive about how many households have chosen the opt-out
scheme ??, I guess they think that should such material get published,
more people will sign up as it will be more widely known about ?, and
they wouldn't want that would they, hehehe.........
You mention other organisations that , with some support could aquire
such information, who would these be ?, for those folks who maybe
unaware of such groups.
With a list of organisations to hand, how does one, get to participate
in supporting such cause?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is the year that I am taking
Junk Mail to task.
rkhff
Aug 4, 2011, 11:09:49 AM8/4/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
The new Facts section is now live at http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/.
A spreadsheet with all calculations is available in both .ods
(OpenOffice / LibreOffice) and .xls (Microsoft Excel) format:
- http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.ods
- http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.xls
More pages will be added. For instance, I'm planning to list industry
research that's obviously flawed / propaganda. There's lots of it
about, and building a catalogue with nonsense produced by marketeers
will help make the case for more transparency within the industry.
This is important because _none_ of the statistics produced by the
industry can be verified. Even Defra has to assume everything the DMA
and Royal Mail tell them is true. (Or well, strictly speaking Defra
doesn't have to. It's probably fairer to say they chooses not to
question anything they're being fed by the industry).
Amongst the data that's still missing is a breakdown of the number of
households registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out. My guess is that
Royal Mail is reluctant to publish these figures because they're
embarrassing. They don't want the public to know that nobody is
signing up to its opt-out scheme for unaddressed mail. It might give
the impression the company is trying to force-feed people junk
mail :). The number of households opted out as at April 2009 (0.8%)
was only made public after various media had reported the opt-out rate
was less than 0.5%.
I think the Royal Mail FoI request should ask for:
1) Information about the Door-to-Door Opt-Out:
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of households registered from
the date the D2D Opt-Out was launched (nobody actually knows when the
scheme was established).
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of registration forms send out.
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of complaints received about
the opt-out scheme.
2) Information about the Door-to-Door Scheme:
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of unaddressed mail items
distributed via the scheme, going back to July 2007.
3) Information about the Carbon Neutral Door-to-Door Scheme (http://
www.new.stopjunkmail.org.uk/features/carbon_neutral_junk_mail/):
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of unaddressed mail items
distributed via the scheme, going back to July 2007 (the month the
scheme was launched).
Perhaps the request should ask for information about the Royal Mail's
strategy for promoting the D2D opt-out and Carbon Neutral scheme. They
no doubt have meetings about those sort of things, though I don't
think there's any change of getting the minutes...
As for working with other organisation to get information from the
DMA, I'm thinking of organisations such as Consumer Focus, the Local
Government Association, Which?, Zero Waste Scotland, Waste Watch and
Friends of the Earth. They're all influential organisations and with
the exception of Friends of the Earth they've all been critical about
junk mail in the past. There's a strong case for persuading the DMA to
be less secretive about the industry but I've no idea whether or not
these organisations would be willing to put there name to a request
for information. It's worth a try though.
So... to be added to the 'to do' list:
- Add more info to Facts section.
- Write FoI request.
- Draft DMA letter and contact other organisations.
As always, questions / comments / suggestions are welcome.
A spreadsheet with all calculations is available in both .ods
(OpenOffice / LibreOffice) and .xls (Microsoft Excel) format:
- http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.ods
- http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.xls
More pages will be added. For instance, I'm planning to list industry
research that's obviously flawed / propaganda. There's lots of it
about, and building a catalogue with nonsense produced by marketeers
will help make the case for more transparency within the industry.
This is important because _none_ of the statistics produced by the
industry can be verified. Even Defra has to assume everything the DMA
and Royal Mail tell them is true. (Or well, strictly speaking Defra
doesn't have to. It's probably fairer to say they chooses not to
question anything they're being fed by the industry).
Amongst the data that's still missing is a breakdown of the number of
households registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out. My guess is that
Royal Mail is reluctant to publish these figures because they're
embarrassing. They don't want the public to know that nobody is
signing up to its opt-out scheme for unaddressed mail. It might give
the impression the company is trying to force-feed people junk
mail :). The number of households opted out as at April 2009 (0.8%)
was only made public after various media had reported the opt-out rate
was less than 0.5%.
I think the Royal Mail FoI request should ask for:
1) Information about the Door-to-Door Opt-Out:
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of households registered from
the date the D2D Opt-Out was launched (nobody actually knows when the
scheme was established).
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of registration forms send out.
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of complaints received about
the opt-out scheme.
2) Information about the Door-to-Door Scheme:
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of unaddressed mail items
distributed via the scheme, going back to July 2007.
3) Information about the Carbon Neutral Door-to-Door Scheme (http://
www.new.stopjunkmail.org.uk/features/carbon_neutral_junk_mail/):
- a quarterly breakdown of the number of unaddressed mail items
distributed via the scheme, going back to July 2007 (the month the
scheme was launched).
Perhaps the request should ask for information about the Royal Mail's
strategy for promoting the D2D opt-out and Carbon Neutral scheme. They
no doubt have meetings about those sort of things, though I don't
think there's any change of getting the minutes...
As for working with other organisation to get information from the
DMA, I'm thinking of organisations such as Consumer Focus, the Local
Government Association, Which?, Zero Waste Scotland, Waste Watch and
Friends of the Earth. They're all influential organisations and with
the exception of Friends of the Earth they've all been critical about
junk mail in the past. There's a strong case for persuading the DMA to
be less secretive about the industry but I've no idea whether or not
these organisations would be willing to put there name to a request
for information. It's worth a try though.
So... to be added to the 'to do' list:
- Add more info to Facts section.
- Write FoI request.
- Draft DMA letter and contact other organisations.
As always, questions / comments / suggestions are welcome.
West Field
Aug 13, 2011, 5:42:09 PM8/13/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Had this back from DEFRA, about all I expected really.............
Thank you for your email of 29 July about junk mail. I have been asked
to reply.
I appreciate that it is frustrating to receive unwanted junk mail.
While it provides businesses with valuable marketing coverage (it is
estimated to generate £16 billion in sales for UK businesses every
year), the Government is very aware of the need to minimise the
environmental impacts of this activity, in particular reducing the
amount of direct mail and promotions material sent to landfill and
increasing recycling.
The Government has producer responsibility agreements with the Direct
Mail Association to increase the recycling of direct (junk) mail, and
with the Newspaper Publishers Association to increase the recycled
content of newspapers. We are currently negotiating a similar producer
responsibility agreement with the Periodical Publishers Association
(PPA) to increase the recycling of magazines.
Regarding ‘junk mail’, flyers and so on, the Direct Marketing
Association (DMA), which represents about 900 members involved in the
direct mail and promotions industry, signed an agreement with the
Government in July 2003 that was aimed at increasing the collection
and recycling of direct mail and promotions material. Specific
recycling targets were established under the agreement, steadily
increasing over time to a target rate of 70% by 2013. The DMA also
pledged to increase the use of recycled paper, avoid using materials
that might cause problems with the recycling process, and improve the
targeting of addressed direct mail.
In April 2010, the DMA and Royal Mail published a report on progress
towards meeting the aims and targets established by the 2003
agreement. This is available online at: http://www.twosides.info/Content/newsPDF_74.pdf.
It is possible to reduce the amount of junk mail you receive by
registering with an opt-out scheme such as the Mailing Preference
Service. Contact details for the scheme are as follows:
Mailing Preference Service (MPS)
DMA House
70 Margaret Street
London
W1W 8SS
MPS Registration line - 0845 703 4599
www.mpsonline.org.uk
I hope this information is of use.
Yours sincerely
David Hands
Customer Contact Unit Defra
On Aug 4, 11:09 am, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> The new Facts section is now live athttp://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/.
Thank you for your email of 29 July about junk mail. I have been asked
to reply.
I appreciate that it is frustrating to receive unwanted junk mail.
While it provides businesses with valuable marketing coverage (it is
estimated to generate £16 billion in sales for UK businesses every
year), the Government is very aware of the need to minimise the
environmental impacts of this activity, in particular reducing the
amount of direct mail and promotions material sent to landfill and
increasing recycling.
The Government has producer responsibility agreements with the Direct
Mail Association to increase the recycling of direct (junk) mail, and
with the Newspaper Publishers Association to increase the recycled
content of newspapers. We are currently negotiating a similar producer
responsibility agreement with the Periodical Publishers Association
(PPA) to increase the recycling of magazines.
Regarding ‘junk mail’, flyers and so on, the Direct Marketing
Association (DMA), which represents about 900 members involved in the
direct mail and promotions industry, signed an agreement with the
Government in July 2003 that was aimed at increasing the collection
and recycling of direct mail and promotions material. Specific
recycling targets were established under the agreement, steadily
increasing over time to a target rate of 70% by 2013. The DMA also
pledged to increase the use of recycled paper, avoid using materials
that might cause problems with the recycling process, and improve the
targeting of addressed direct mail.
In April 2010, the DMA and Royal Mail published a report on progress
towards meeting the aims and targets established by the 2003
agreement. This is available online at: http://www.twosides.info/Content/newsPDF_74.pdf.
It is possible to reduce the amount of junk mail you receive by
registering with an opt-out scheme such as the Mailing Preference
Service. Contact details for the scheme are as follows:
Mailing Preference Service (MPS)
DMA House
70 Margaret Street
London
W1W 8SS
MPS Registration line - 0845 703 4599
www.mpsonline.org.uk
I hope this information is of use.
Yours sincerely
David Hands
Customer Contact Unit Defra
On Aug 4, 11:09 am, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> The new Facts section is now live athttp://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/.
> A spreadsheet with all calculations is available in both .ods
> (OpenOffice / LibreOffice) and .xls (Microsoft Excel) format:
>
> -http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.ods
> -http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.xls
> (OpenOffice / LibreOffice) and .xls (Microsoft Excel) format:
>
> -http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/facts/resources/junk_mail_stats.ods
rkhff
Aug 18, 2011, 11:28:55 AM8/18/11
to stopju...@googlegroups.com
Looks like a standard response. Interesting to see they mentioned the £16 billion figure used by the DMA; when I discussed junk mail with Defra a couple of months ago they acknowledged they haven't verified any of the data they're being fed by the junk mail lobby group. Anyway, I hope they'll use the comments you made in their discussions with the industry.
I've just fired off the following FoI request to f...@royalmail.com:
---
Dear Sir, Madam,
I am writing to request information about the door-to-door scheme, the door-to-door sustainable mail product, and the door-to-door opt-out. I am making this request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
With regards to Royal Mail's door-to-door scheme (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door), please could you provide me the following information:
1) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed to UK households via the door-to-door scheme, from January 2000 to the present date. Royal Mail already publishes detailed information about the volume of addressed advertising mail, amongst others in the Mail Media Centre's report called 'Mail Volumes and Response Rates by industry sector 2010', published in April 2011 and available via www.mmc.co.uk. Please note that I am not asking for a detailed breakdown of the total volume of unaddressed mail. Rather, I am requesting the total volume of door-to-door items per quarter.
2) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed to UK households that are exempt from the door-to-door opt-out scheme, from January 2000 to the present date. I am referring to those door-to-door items that are distributed to all households, including those registered with the door-to-door opt-out. The Royal Mail website states (at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail) that election material is not distributed via the door-to-door service and that Royal Mail will distribute unaddressed mail items to every UK addressed in "exceptional circumstances". My query is how many such items are distributed by Royal Mail per quarter.
With regards to the door-to-door sustainable mail product (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door/details/sustainable-mail), please could you provide me with the following information:
3) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed via the door-to-door sustainable mail service, from the date the service was launched (this is, I believe, July 2007) to the present date. In providing these figures, please could you confirm whether or not the volume of mail items distributed via the sustainable mail service is included in the volume of items distributed via the 'normal' door-to-door service.
With regards to the door-to-door opt-out service for unaddressed mail items distributed by Royal Mail (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail), please could you provide me with the following information:
4) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from the date the opt-out service was first established to the present date.
5) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from the date the opt-out service was first established to the present date.
6) The calculation behind the statement, included both on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail and in the standard letter sent to householders requesting a registration form, that Royal Mail distributes "only about 25% of the total volume of unaddressed mail items in the United Kingdom".
I understand the Freedom of Information Act requires you to advise and assist requesters. Therefore, should any part of this request be too wide or too unclear, please contact me so that I can clarify and/or rephrase the request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully,
etc.
---
I suspect they'll claim the first five questions would reveal commercially sensitive information...
I've just fired off the following FoI request to f...@royalmail.com:
---
Dear Sir, Madam,
I am writing to request information about the door-to-door scheme, the door-to-door sustainable mail product, and the door-to-door opt-out. I am making this request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
With regards to Royal Mail's door-to-door scheme (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door), please could you provide me the following information:
1) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed to UK households via the door-to-door scheme, from January 2000 to the present date. Royal Mail already publishes detailed information about the volume of addressed advertising mail, amongst others in the Mail Media Centre's report called 'Mail Volumes and Response Rates by industry sector 2010', published in April 2011 and available via www.mmc.co.uk. Please note that I am not asking for a detailed breakdown of the total volume of unaddressed mail. Rather, I am requesting the total volume of door-to-door items per quarter.
2) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed to UK households that are exempt from the door-to-door opt-out scheme, from January 2000 to the present date. I am referring to those door-to-door items that are distributed to all households, including those registered with the door-to-door opt-out. The Royal Mail website states (at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail) that election material is not distributed via the door-to-door service and that Royal Mail will distribute unaddressed mail items to every UK addressed in "exceptional circumstances". My query is how many such items are distributed by Royal Mail per quarter.
With regards to the door-to-door sustainable mail product (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door/details/sustainable-mail), please could you provide me with the following information:
3) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items distributed via the door-to-door sustainable mail service, from the date the service was launched (this is, I believe, July 2007) to the present date. In providing these figures, please could you confirm whether or not the volume of mail items distributed via the sustainable mail service is included in the volume of items distributed via the 'normal' door-to-door service.
With regards to the door-to-door opt-out service for unaddressed mail items distributed by Royal Mail (as described on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail), please could you provide me with the following information:
4) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from the date the opt-out service was first established to the present date.
5) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from the date the opt-out service was first established to the present date.
6) The calculation behind the statement, included both on the Royal Mail website at www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail and in the standard letter sent to householders requesting a registration form, that Royal Mail distributes "only about 25% of the total volume of unaddressed mail items in the United Kingdom".
I understand the Freedom of Information Act requires you to advise and assist requesters. Therefore, should any part of this request be too wide or too unclear, please contact me so that I can clarify and/or rephrase the request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully,
etc.
---
I suspect they'll claim the first five questions would reveal commercially sensitive information...
West Field
Aug 27, 2011, 7:54:39 AM8/27/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Well done, I just hope they bother to respond !!!!!!.
On a similar topic, it appears we have a new postie to my street, or
maybe the normal person in on summer hols - who knows, BUT for the
last two days he has been posting the normal mail and also the junk
mail, I let that go the first time, as i thought he may have not seen
the signs I have. However this morning the same thing happened again,
I rushed out before he was able to leave my propery and handed the
junk back to him.
He responded have you signed up for the ' Opt Out', I replied yes, oh
he said I haven't had any notifications about that in this area.
So my question is..... is this simply an error on the local sorting
office ?, or is this more widespread. In that telling householders
they had , had no notifications of house numbers to not deliver the
junk, therefore posting it anyway.
Oh and the postie did see the No Junk Mail sign, they are told to
ignore them !!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY.?
Makes my blood boiol it really does, what is the point of a polite
sign when the are TOLD to ignore them. The law needs to change and
change fast.
On Aug 18, 4:28 pm, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> Looks like a standard response. Interesting to see they mentioned the £16
> billion figure used by the DMA; when I discussed junk mail with Defra a
> couple of months ago they acknowledged they haven't verified any of the data
> they're being fed by the junk mail lobby group. Anyway, I hope they'll use
> the comments you made in their discussions with the industry.
>
> I've just fired off the following FoI request to f...@royalmail.com:
>
> ---
>
> Dear Sir, Madam,
>
> I am writing to request information about the door-to-door scheme, the
> door-to-door sustainable mail product, and the door-to-door opt-out. I am
> making this request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
>
> With regards to Royal Mail's door-to-door scheme (as described on the Royal
> Mail website at
> www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door), please
> could you provide me the following information:
>
> 1) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items
> distributed to UK households via the door-to-door scheme, from January 2000
> to the present date. Royal Mail already publishes detailed information about
> the volume of addressed advertising mail, amongst others in the Mail Media
> Centre's report called 'Mail Volumes and Response Rates by industry sector
> 2010', published in April 2011 and available viawww.mmc.co.uk. Please note
On a similar topic, it appears we have a new postie to my street, or
maybe the normal person in on summer hols - who knows, BUT for the
last two days he has been posting the normal mail and also the junk
mail, I let that go the first time, as i thought he may have not seen
the signs I have. However this morning the same thing happened again,
I rushed out before he was able to leave my propery and handed the
junk back to him.
He responded have you signed up for the ' Opt Out', I replied yes, oh
he said I haven't had any notifications about that in this area.
So my question is..... is this simply an error on the local sorting
office ?, or is this more widespread. In that telling householders
they had , had no notifications of house numbers to not deliver the
junk, therefore posting it anyway.
Oh and the postie did see the No Junk Mail sign, they are told to
ignore them !!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY.?
Makes my blood boiol it really does, what is the point of a polite
sign when the are TOLD to ignore them. The law needs to change and
change fast.
On Aug 18, 4:28 pm, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> Looks like a standard response. Interesting to see they mentioned the £16
> billion figure used by the DMA; when I discussed junk mail with Defra a
> couple of months ago they acknowledged they haven't verified any of the data
> they're being fed by the junk mail lobby group. Anyway, I hope they'll use
> the comments you made in their discussions with the industry.
>
> I've just fired off the following FoI request to f...@royalmail.com:
>
> ---
>
> Dear Sir, Madam,
>
> I am writing to request information about the door-to-door scheme, the
> door-to-door sustainable mail product, and the door-to-door opt-out. I am
> making this request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
>
> With regards to Royal Mail's door-to-door scheme (as described on the Royal
> Mail website at
> www2.royalmail.com/marketing-services/campaign-delivery/door-door), please
> could you provide me the following information:
>
> 1) A quarterly breakdown of the total number of unaddressed mail items
> distributed to UK households via the door-to-door scheme, from January 2000
> to the present date. Royal Mail already publishes detailed information about
> the volume of addressed advertising mail, amongst others in the Mail Media
> Centre's report called 'Mail Volumes and Response Rates by industry sector
rkhff
Aug 29, 2011, 3:53:51 PM8/29/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
They've confirmed I can expect a reply by 16/09/11 - I'll post the
answer here. Not holding my breath…
Re your postie being unaware of your registration with the Door-to-
Door Opt-Out, that's a common complaint. It seems postmen are almost
routinely not told about households registered with the opt-out
scheme. The issue, I suspect, is that the administrators in Oxford
often don't bother telling local offices about new registrations. It's
worth sending an e-mail to door_to_doo...@royalmail.com
(that's the opt-out apparatchiks in Oxford) to ask:
- If your household is registered.
- If so, from what date your household is registered.
- If so, if they could remind your local sorting office to mark your
address as 'opted out'.
It's always useful to know the date from which your address has been
registered as your opt-out will expire after only two years. You need
to remind yourself to re-register before the opt-out runs out (as
you'd have to go through the lengthy and laborious registration
process again).
And yes… it's true Royal Mail has a policy of ignoring 'No Junk Mail'
signs. The only way to stop unaddressed junk mail distributed by Royal
Mail is by signing up to the company's failing Door-to-Door Opt-Out.
It makes my blood boil too, but I've tried to politely answer that
part of your question in more detail at www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/doctor/consults.php?consult=15.
(PS - to see hyperlinks properly you need to 'view this group in the
new Google groups' - there should be a link in the right hand side
column somewhere.)
answer here. Not holding my breath…
Re your postie being unaware of your registration with the Door-to-
Door Opt-Out, that's a common complaint. It seems postmen are almost
routinely not told about households registered with the opt-out
scheme. The issue, I suspect, is that the administrators in Oxford
often don't bother telling local offices about new registrations. It's
worth sending an e-mail to door_to_doo...@royalmail.com
(that's the opt-out apparatchiks in Oxford) to ask:
- If your household is registered.
- If so, from what date your household is registered.
- If so, if they could remind your local sorting office to mark your
address as 'opted out'.
It's always useful to know the date from which your address has been
registered as your opt-out will expire after only two years. You need
to remind yourself to re-register before the opt-out runs out (as
you'd have to go through the lengthy and laborious registration
process again).
And yes… it's true Royal Mail has a policy of ignoring 'No Junk Mail'
signs. The only way to stop unaddressed junk mail distributed by Royal
Mail is by signing up to the company's failing Door-to-Door Opt-Out.
It makes my blood boil too, but I've tried to politely answer that
part of your question in more detail at www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/doctor/consults.php?consult=15.
(PS - to see hyperlinks properly you need to 'view this group in the
new Google groups' - there should be a link in the right hand side
column somewhere.)
West Field
Aug 30, 2011, 7:55:47 AM8/30/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Well it happened again this morning, despite being on the opt out
system I am still getting junk mail.
I got quite annoyed with the postie today, he refused to accept the
return of the junk mail back into his hand and let it all fall over my
garden, I picked it all up and handed it back to him once again. This
time he took it, and said I was NOT on the opt out scheme, when I know
full well I am, what perhaps needs to happen here is for the royal
mail to supply stickers to affix to letterboxes informing new or
relief postmen that the property is indeed on the Opt Out. Something
like
Opt Out scheme active
with an expirey date at the bottom.
The issue seems to be with these either new or relief persons - in
that they are not the regular postman for that street, so when a temp
person comes in, they have no clue as to who is and is not on the Opt
Out.
I eventually sought out the phone number and rang my local sorting
office who said they will follow the matter up with the postman
concerned.
When quizzed about why they ignore any signs householders may have, I
was told yes, we get paid to deliver the junkmail wether you want it
or not !!! - not that I didn't know that, but was nice to hear from
the horses mouth so to speak.
On Aug 29, 3:53 pm, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> They've confirmed I can expect a reply by 16/09/11 - I'll post the
> answer here. Not holding my breath…
>
> Re your postie being unaware of your registration with the Door-to-
> Door Opt-Out, that's a common complaint. It seems postmen are almost
> routinely not told about households registered with the opt-out
> scheme. The issue, I suspect, is that the administrators in Oxford
> often don't bother telling local offices about new registrations. It's
> worth sending an e-mail to door_to_door_ops_ad...@royalmail.com
system I am still getting junk mail.
I got quite annoyed with the postie today, he refused to accept the
return of the junk mail back into his hand and let it all fall over my
garden, I picked it all up and handed it back to him once again. This
time he took it, and said I was NOT on the opt out scheme, when I know
full well I am, what perhaps needs to happen here is for the royal
mail to supply stickers to affix to letterboxes informing new or
relief postmen that the property is indeed on the Opt Out. Something
like
Opt Out scheme active
with an expirey date at the bottom.
The issue seems to be with these either new or relief persons - in
that they are not the regular postman for that street, so when a temp
person comes in, they have no clue as to who is and is not on the Opt
Out.
I eventually sought out the phone number and rang my local sorting
office who said they will follow the matter up with the postman
concerned.
When quizzed about why they ignore any signs householders may have, I
was told yes, we get paid to deliver the junkmail wether you want it
or not !!! - not that I didn't know that, but was nice to hear from
the horses mouth so to speak.
On Aug 29, 3:53 pm, rkhff <rob...@stopjunkmail.org.uk> wrote:
> They've confirmed I can expect a reply by 16/09/11 - I'll post the
> answer here. Not holding my breath…
>
> Re your postie being unaware of your registration with the Door-to-
> Door Opt-Out, that's a common complaint. It seems postmen are almost
> routinely not told about households registered with the opt-out
> scheme. The issue, I suspect, is that the administrators in Oxford
> often don't bother telling local offices about new registrations. It's
West Field
Aug 30, 2011, 9:45:08 AM8/30/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
EDIT TO ADD
Just sent off an email to the Opt Out address, stating the information
required.
I know I am on the system because I re-registered well before the old
one expired.
I do think the Royal Mail are under a lot of pressure to deliver this
junkmail, as we know they get paid for doing so and maybe seemingly
convienently forgetting to tell the sorting offices about any opt
outs. That makes a mockery of the whole system doesn't it?
I was thinking, if I had a fridge that someone gave me, and the person
giving me that fridge paid me to give it someone else for free, and I
left that fridge at your front door -Oh and you have a NO OLD FRIDGES
sign on your door would you be happy?
I am guessing not, because how is that different from Royal Mail are
doing?
Just because someone gets paid to deliver something, why to they have
the right to blatantly ignore signs that request no JUNKMAIL, where is
this right written please?.
They are a law unto themselves it
seems................................
Just sent off an email to the Opt Out address, stating the information
required.
I know I am on the system because I re-registered well before the old
one expired.
I do think the Royal Mail are under a lot of pressure to deliver this
junkmail, as we know they get paid for doing so and maybe seemingly
convienently forgetting to tell the sorting offices about any opt
outs. That makes a mockery of the whole system doesn't it?
I was thinking, if I had a fridge that someone gave me, and the person
giving me that fridge paid me to give it someone else for free, and I
left that fridge at your front door -Oh and you have a NO OLD FRIDGES
sign on your door would you be happy?
I am guessing not, because how is that different from Royal Mail are
doing?
Just because someone gets paid to deliver something, why to they have
the right to blatantly ignore signs that request no JUNKMAIL, where is
this right written please?.
They are a law unto themselves it
seems................................
West Field
Aug 30, 2011, 10:14:50 AM8/30/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Is there not a button to edit ones post on this forum, can't seem to
find one. So here goes on a new post.
Ok , well forget using the optout email address to request further
information ,as all that does is just bounce back a corporate email
responce, everytime you email it, it just sends an auto reply out.
Telling you why you perhaps should not sign up for the Opt Out,
together with a form in PDF format, clever that, what if you don't
have a printer !!!!!!!!
the address I was using was
opt...@royalmail.com - use only for NEW enquires
On their website they also had a phone number
01865 796964
This was far better, actually speaking to a human !!. After details
were exchanged it was indeed proved that I was on the Opt Out scheme
and that they will now be contacting my local sorting office directly
to see what happened.
The nice lady said she would call be back tomorrow with an
explaination.
I am a bit happier now, as it now appears the fault lies at the
sorting office rather than the Opt Out scheme as a whole.
> ...
>
> read more »
find one. So here goes on a new post.
Ok , well forget using the optout email address to request further
information ,as all that does is just bounce back a corporate email
responce, everytime you email it, it just sends an auto reply out.
Telling you why you perhaps should not sign up for the Opt Out,
together with a form in PDF format, clever that, what if you don't
have a printer !!!!!!!!
the address I was using was
opt...@royalmail.com - use only for NEW enquires
On their website they also had a phone number
01865 796964
This was far better, actually speaking to a human !!. After details
were exchanged it was indeed proved that I was on the Opt Out scheme
and that they will now be contacting my local sorting office directly
to see what happened.
The nice lady said she would call be back tomorrow with an
explaination.
I am a bit happier now, as it now appears the fault lies at the
sorting office rather than the Opt Out scheme as a whole.
>
> read more »
rkhff
Sep 3, 2011, 9:14:39 AM9/3/11
to stopju...@googlegroups.com
There's no 'edit' button - it's a bit like an e-mail list. Once you hit 'Post' there's no going back :).
As I understand it the opt-out process is as follows:
- Opt-out requests are adminstered in Oxford.
- When someone has registered the relevant local sorting office is contacted.
- The manager of the sorting office advises the relevant postman.
- The postman puts a sticker on the slot for your address.
At every stage things can go wrong. Oxford may fail to contact the local sorting office; the manager at the sorting office may forget to tell your postie you've opted out; or your postman may forget about the opt-out while on his round. The system is prone to such errors, all the more so because, as you said, they're desparate to deliver junk mail.
A particular issue is that postmen have to learn by heart which household on their round are opted out. They can mark your address on the sorting rack, but once they're out and about they have to remember to skip your address. This is doable if only 0.8% of households are opted out but you can see the whole system collapse once 5 or even 10% of households is opted out.
It may also be a good idea to list the contact details for the Door-to-Door Opt-Out here:
- To get a registration form in the post, contact 01865 796 964 or 01865 796 988.
- To get a form via e-mail (as a PDF), contact opt...@royalmail.com.
- For any queries about your registration, phone the above numbers or send an e-mail to door_to_doo...@royalmail.com.
Lots more details at www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/door_to_door_opt_out.php!
I hope the Royal Junk Mail has now stopped!
As I understand it the opt-out process is as follows:
- Opt-out requests are adminstered in Oxford.
- When someone has registered the relevant local sorting office is contacted.
- The manager of the sorting office advises the relevant postman.
- The postman puts a sticker on the slot for your address.
At every stage things can go wrong. Oxford may fail to contact the local sorting office; the manager at the sorting office may forget to tell your postie you've opted out; or your postman may forget about the opt-out while on his round. The system is prone to such errors, all the more so because, as you said, they're desparate to deliver junk mail.
A particular issue is that postmen have to learn by heart which household on their round are opted out. They can mark your address on the sorting rack, but once they're out and about they have to remember to skip your address. This is doable if only 0.8% of households are opted out but you can see the whole system collapse once 5 or even 10% of households is opted out.
It may also be a good idea to list the contact details for the Door-to-Door Opt-Out here:
- To get a registration form in the post, contact 01865 796 964 or 01865 796 988.
- To get a form via e-mail (as a PDF), contact opt...@royalmail.com.
- For any queries about your registration, phone the above numbers or send an e-mail to door_to_doo...@royalmail.com.
Lots more details at www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/door_to_door_opt_out.php!
I hope the Royal Junk Mail has now stopped!
West Field
Sep 3, 2011, 11:23:39 AM9/3/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
Yes thanks, all sorted out now. I'm afraid I am not very patient with
incompetant organisations, hence my annoyance the other day. Oxford
rang me back the following day and explained that the issue was with
my local sorting office and that some new procedures were to be
drafted on coping with relief and replacement staff when it comes to
the folks who are in the Opt Out Scheme. Hopefully this will message
will go out to all the sorting offices, so this situation does not
arise again ?.
I appreciate that in all companies there may be breakdowns in
comunications from time to time, but the bit that got me, was the
posties actually saying i was NOT on the scheme and was quite adament
he was correct, now, if they had not been given a list in the first
place (because of a mistake or whatever), how would they know?, had
they been given a list, it would have been plain to see I WAS on the
Opt Out. The issue perhaps was made worse by the actual postmans
ignorance in the matter.
Anyway, all sorted as I said, and have had 3 days Junk Mail free, he's
to the next xxx days......
> an e-mail to door_to_door_ops_ad...@royalmail.com.
>
> Lots more details atwww.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/door_to_door_opt_out.php!
incompetant organisations, hence my annoyance the other day. Oxford
rang me back the following day and explained that the issue was with
my local sorting office and that some new procedures were to be
drafted on coping with relief and replacement staff when it comes to
the folks who are in the Opt Out Scheme. Hopefully this will message
will go out to all the sorting offices, so this situation does not
arise again ?.
I appreciate that in all companies there may be breakdowns in
comunications from time to time, but the bit that got me, was the
posties actually saying i was NOT on the scheme and was quite adament
he was correct, now, if they had not been given a list in the first
place (because of a mistake or whatever), how would they know?, had
they been given a list, it would have been plain to see I WAS on the
Opt Out. The issue perhaps was made worse by the actual postmans
ignorance in the matter.
Anyway, all sorted as I said, and have had 3 days Junk Mail free, he's
to the next xxx days......
>
> Lots more details atwww.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/door_to_door_opt_out.php!
rkhff
Sep 15, 2011, 4:33:03 PM9/15/11
to stopju...@googlegroups.com
Royal Mail today replied to the FoI request:
---
I am writing in response to your email on the 18/08/2011. We have considered your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. In your email you asked six extensive questions in relation to Royal Mails Door 2 Door product.
In your request you asked for information in a quarterly format. As our systems are not set up for this, to get the information you requested would involve the commissioning of a bespoke report from our IT provider, the cost of which is estimated as between £500 and £1500. Your request would therefore exceed the appropriate cost limit set out under section 12 (1) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to retrieve the information you have asked for. Consequently, we are not obliged by the Freedom of Information Act to provide this information.
The appropriate limit for Royal Mail Group is set at £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person spending 18 hours in determining whether we hold the information, and in locating, retrieving and extracting the information.
You may therefore wish to narrow the scope of your request and look at wider time periods. Please note, however, that as Royal Mail operates in an open market where competition is growing, details of volumes delivered by us in local areas could be utilised by Royal Mail’s competitors, and it may be considered appropriate to withhold this information. Any revised request we receive from you will need to be treated as a fresh FOI request and will of course be considered carefully under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.
Etc.
---
I didn't think my questions were that "extensive" (getting a quarterly breakdown of the number of opt-out forms sent and the number of registrations really shouldn't take more than an hour) but I guess I have to be less ambitious. Think I'll ask for an annual breakdown going back to 2008 tomorrow. The questions about the sustainable mail 'product' probably have to go (or someone else could submit a request!).
---
I am writing in response to your email on the 18/08/2011. We have considered your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. In your email you asked six extensive questions in relation to Royal Mails Door 2 Door product.
In your request you asked for information in a quarterly format. As our systems are not set up for this, to get the information you requested would involve the commissioning of a bespoke report from our IT provider, the cost of which is estimated as between £500 and £1500. Your request would therefore exceed the appropriate cost limit set out under section 12 (1) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to retrieve the information you have asked for. Consequently, we are not obliged by the Freedom of Information Act to provide this information.
The appropriate limit for Royal Mail Group is set at £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person spending 18 hours in determining whether we hold the information, and in locating, retrieving and extracting the information.
You may therefore wish to narrow the scope of your request and look at wider time periods. Please note, however, that as Royal Mail operates in an open market where competition is growing, details of volumes delivered by us in local areas could be utilised by Royal Mail’s competitors, and it may be considered appropriate to withhold this information. Any revised request we receive from you will need to be treated as a fresh FOI request and will of course be considered carefully under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.
Etc.
---
I didn't think my questions were that "extensive" (getting a quarterly breakdown of the number of opt-out forms sent and the number of registrations really shouldn't take more than an hour) but I guess I have to be less ambitious. Think I'll ask for an annual breakdown going back to 2008 tomorrow. The questions about the sustainable mail 'product' probably have to go (or someone else could submit a request!).
West Field
Sep 15, 2011, 6:21:16 PM9/15/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
This does not seem normal to me, if I was a large company and was in
charge of the ' third party mail' lets call it, I would know exactly
how much I sent and how much I got paid for it, how hard can it be?
If this 3rd party mail contributes to such an extent to actually
subsidise my companies fianances, I really would know.................
and if it does not contribute much, then why would I enter into any
dealings with the 3rd party mailers in the first place.
Sorry Royal Mail, yet another FAIL.
Seems to me you are hiding behind all your junk mail, and cant see the
facts because of it.
Again comes as no suprise to hear that response, thanks for posting
anyway, and good luck on the follow up.
charge of the ' third party mail' lets call it, I would know exactly
how much I sent and how much I got paid for it, how hard can it be?
If this 3rd party mail contributes to such an extent to actually
subsidise my companies fianances, I really would know.................
and if it does not contribute much, then why would I enter into any
dealings with the 3rd party mailers in the first place.
Sorry Royal Mail, yet another FAIL.
Seems to me you are hiding behind all your junk mail, and cant see the
facts because of it.
Again comes as no suprise to hear that response, thanks for posting
anyway, and good luck on the follow up.
rkhff
Sep 22, 2011, 9:11:48 AM9/22/11
to stopju...@googlegroups.com
Second attempt to get information from Royal Mail... I've dropped four of the six questions and simplified the remaining two. Any company, however inefficient, should be able to retrieve the data for less than £450.
---
Dear Sir, Madam,
I recently submitted a Freedom of Information Request (ref -xxx-) which was not answered because providing the information would cost more than the "appropriate limit" of £450. I understand you will treat a revised Freedom of Information Request as a "fresh request".
I herewith wish to submit a new request. I have greatly simplified my request in the hope that the information can be retrieved by running a basic database query. Please could you provide me with the following information:
1. An annual breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from 2006 to the present date. The information could be provided either per calendar year or financial year (I believe you record this information per financial year as the 'Direct Marketing Waste Prevention Report 2009', produced by Royal Mail and the Direct Marketing Association in early 2010, mentions that 198,000 households were registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out as at April 2009.
2. An annual breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from 2006 to the present date. It is important that this information is provided in the same format as the information provided under 1. above. This is because I intent to use this information to establish the percentage of households that choose not to register after having been sent the registration form.
I understand the Freedom of Information Act requires you to advise and assist requesters. Therefore, should any part of this request be too wide or too unclear, please contact me so that I can clarify and/or rephrase the request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
etc.
---
---
Dear Sir, Madam,
I recently submitted a Freedom of Information Request (ref -xxx-) which was not answered because providing the information would cost more than the "appropriate limit" of £450. I understand you will treat a revised Freedom of Information Request as a "fresh request".
I herewith wish to submit a new request. I have greatly simplified my request in the hope that the information can be retrieved by running a basic database query. Please could you provide me with the following information:
1. An annual breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from 2006 to the present date. The information could be provided either per calendar year or financial year (I believe you record this information per financial year as the 'Direct Marketing Waste Prevention Report 2009', produced by Royal Mail and the Direct Marketing Association in early 2010, mentions that 198,000 households were registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out as at April 2009.
2. An annual breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from 2006 to the present date. It is important that this information is provided in the same format as the information provided under 1. above. This is because I intent to use this information to establish the percentage of households that choose not to register after having been sent the registration form.
I understand the Freedom of Information Act requires you to advise and assist requesters. Therefore, should any part of this request be too wide or too unclear, please contact me so that I can clarify and/or rephrase the request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
---
West Field
Sep 24, 2011, 8:29:43 AM9/24/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
I was always under the impression that Royal Mail were government
owned and therefore have an upper limit off £600 per F.O.I requests,
however having looked at this in more detail, it seems in June of this
year they released 90% of that ownership to private buyers - which is
a pain. SO I guess their limit of £450 does actually stack up.
That said, if all this information is stored on a central computer
somewhere, how hard can it be to simply bring up those details on-
screen and write them down - and would that ACTUALLY cost £450, and
if it does, then someone is being grossly overpaid
somewhere...............
I suspect , they are using the costings of such requests as a smoke
screen and really do not wish to answer your questions correctly .
If you get no where this time, it may well be worth asking how they
quantify these costs, giving a breakdown of the costings where
applicable. As I fail to see how they can charge this much for so
little information.
It may of course be a situation where, because they have now sold 90%
of the company, that they have no clue to these figures at all - as
they are all now separate companies who each hold a piece of the
information separately, if that is indeed the case then getting an
accurate figure would be nigh on impossible, as it would only take one
company to not release ( or fabricate figures) to mess up the whole
thing.
Here's to take 2 anyway, good luck.
owned and therefore have an upper limit off £600 per F.O.I requests,
however having looked at this in more detail, it seems in June of this
year they released 90% of that ownership to private buyers - which is
a pain. SO I guess their limit of £450 does actually stack up.
That said, if all this information is stored on a central computer
somewhere, how hard can it be to simply bring up those details on-
screen and write them down - and would that ACTUALLY cost £450, and
if it does, then someone is being grossly overpaid
somewhere...............
I suspect , they are using the costings of such requests as a smoke
screen and really do not wish to answer your questions correctly .
If you get no where this time, it may well be worth asking how they
quantify these costs, giving a breakdown of the costings where
applicable. As I fail to see how they can charge this much for so
little information.
It may of course be a situation where, because they have now sold 90%
of the company, that they have no clue to these figures at all - as
they are all now separate companies who each hold a piece of the
information separately, if that is indeed the case then getting an
accurate figure would be nigh on impossible, as it would only take one
company to not release ( or fabricate figures) to mess up the whole
thing.
Here's to take 2 anyway, good luck.
rkhff
Nov 11, 2011, 12:50:08 PM11/11/11
to stopju...@googlegroups.com
Got the response (below) to my second, less ambitious FoI request a while ago. The long and short of it is that I might be able to get an estimate of the number of households registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out, but getting an exact figure would require a "bespoke report". I'm considering asking for a review. Anyone who knows how to run a basic database query could retrieve the requested information from the Royal Mail database in less than five minutes time.
Good news is that Defra has told me they're keen to get basic stats about unaddressed junk mail in the public domain. Sooner or later they'll give in…
---
I am writing in response to your email on the 18/08/2011. We have considered your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. In your email you requested the following;
1. An annual breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from 2006 to the present date. The information could be provided either per calendar year or financial year. (I believe you record this information per financial year as the 'Direct Marketing Waste Prevention Report 2009', produced by Royal Mail and the Direct Marketing Association in early 2010, mentions that 198,000 households were registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out as at April 2009.)
2. An annual breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from 2006 to the present date. It is important that this information is provided in the same format as the information provided under 1. above. This is because I intent to use this information to establish the percentage of households that choose not to register after having been sent the registration form.
In relation to the first part of your request I can confirm that we do hold information in relation to your request. In order to verify ‘the total number of households registered’ would involve the commissioning of a bespoke report from our IT provider, the cost of which is estimated as £1000. Your request would therefore exceed the appropriate cost limit set out under section 12 (1) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to retrieve the information you have asked for. Consequently, we are not obliged by the Freedom of Information Act to provide this information.
The appropriate limit for Royal Mail Group is set at £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person spending 18 hours in determining whether we hold the information, and in locating, retrieving and extracting the information.
It is difficult to suggest ways in which you may narrow the scope of your request as information regarding the number of people who have opted out will always require a bespoke report from our IT provider.
You may therefore wish to request the information we hold on the number of those people we estimate are currently opted out. Please note, however, that as Royal Mail operates in an open market where competition is growing, details of the number of opt outs could be utilised by Royal Mail’s competitors, and it may be considered appropriate to withhold this information. It may also be useful to note there is no record kept of the number of addresses that are automatically opted back in each month or if the new requests received are from households that have previously opted out.
Any revised request we receive from you will need to be treated as a fresh FOI request and will of course be considered carefully under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.
In relation to the second part of your request it is not possible to identify the number of forms sent out in relation to those who are currently opted out of receiving our door to door product. As we are unable to provide the answer to question 1 due to the request exceeding the cost limit we not obliged to answer the remainder of your request. It may be possible to identify the number of new or returning opt-out requests we received by email since 2006 if you were to resubmit your request just asking for this information.
I'm sorry that your request cannot be met at this time. If for any reason you are not satisfied with this response, you do have the right to request a review. If you wish to do so please set out in writing your grounds of appeal and send to the Head of Information Compliance, Royal Mail Group, Company Secretary's Office, 100 Victoria Embankment, LONDON, EC4Y 0HQ. An internal panel will then review the decision, and you will be advised of the outcome.
If, having requested an internal review by Royal Mail, you are still not satisfied with our response you also have a right of appeal to the Information Commissioner at:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
WILMSLOW
SK9 5AF
www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk
Etc.
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Good news is that Defra has told me they're keen to get basic stats about unaddressed junk mail in the public domain. Sooner or later they'll give in…
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I am writing in response to your email on the 18/08/2011. We have considered your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. In your email you requested the following;
1. An annual breakdown of the total number of households registered with Royal Mail's door-to-door opt-out, from 2006 to the present date. The information could be provided either per calendar year or financial year. (I believe you record this information per financial year as the 'Direct Marketing Waste Prevention Report 2009', produced by Royal Mail and the Direct Marketing Association in early 2010, mentions that 198,000 households were registered with the Door-to-Door Opt-Out as at April 2009.)
2. An annual breakdown of the total number of registration forms for the door-to-door opt-out sent out, from 2006 to the present date. It is important that this information is provided in the same format as the information provided under 1. above. This is because I intent to use this information to establish the percentage of households that choose not to register after having been sent the registration form.
The appropriate limit for Royal Mail Group is set at £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person spending 18 hours in determining whether we hold the information, and in locating, retrieving and extracting the information.
You may therefore wish to request the information we hold on the number of those people we estimate are currently opted out. Please note, however, that as Royal Mail operates in an open market where competition is growing, details of the number of opt outs could be utilised by Royal Mail’s competitors, and it may be considered appropriate to withhold this information. It may also be useful to note there is no record kept of the number of addresses that are automatically opted back in each month or if the new requests received are from households that have previously opted out.
Any revised request we receive from you will need to be treated as a fresh FOI request and will of course be considered carefully under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.
I'm sorry that your request cannot be met at this time. If for any reason you are not satisfied with this response, you do have the right to request a review. If you wish to do so please set out in writing your grounds of appeal and send to the Head of Information Compliance, Royal Mail Group, Company Secretary's Office, 100 Victoria Embankment, LONDON, EC4Y 0HQ. An internal panel will then review the decision, and you will be advised of the outcome.
If, having requested an internal review by Royal Mail, you are still not satisfied with our response you also have a right of appeal to the Information Commissioner at:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
WILMSLOW
SK9 5AF
www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk
Etc.
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West Field
Nov 12, 2011, 8:53:05 AM11/12/11
to Stop Junk Mail (UK)
It's quite plain to see what is happening here.
As you have noted any fool could come up with these figures in a
matter of minutes.
As I see it there are two possible reasons behind their lack of
willing to give you this info.
1) Royal Mail do not wish to release such figures for fear of losing
ongoing and/or new business , by disclosing the actual figures for
people who have opted out.
2) Along the lines of the first reason, Royal Mail obviously rely on
these junk mailers for added revenue, due to increased costs along the
way. The internet for example must have affected them to some degree,
whilst I appreciate that this could in some case boost their targets,
I would imagine overall they are now making a loss over what they were
say 20 years ago. It can't be a coinincident that they stopped the
second afternoon delevery some years ago.
They really must be desperate to hold onto whatever revenue they are
getting it seems, at the cost of the general public who have to
recieve all this unwanted mail.
As you have noted any fool could come up with these figures in a
matter of minutes.
As I see it there are two possible reasons behind their lack of
willing to give you this info.
1) Royal Mail do not wish to release such figures for fear of losing
ongoing and/or new business , by disclosing the actual figures for
people who have opted out.
2) Along the lines of the first reason, Royal Mail obviously rely on
these junk mailers for added revenue, due to increased costs along the
way. The internet for example must have affected them to some degree,
whilst I appreciate that this could in some case boost their targets,
I would imagine overall they are now making a loss over what they were
say 20 years ago. It can't be a coinincident that they stopped the
second afternoon delevery some years ago.
They really must be desperate to hold onto whatever revenue they are
getting it seems, at the cost of the general public who have to
recieve all this unwanted mail.
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