wednesday's game 27th

[Saidin]

feel free to link me if I'm totally blind but haven't seen the loot/
exp post for the failed temple run with the ogres.. we waiting on
something for this?

[Xeiro]

Me too, just didn't want to make a topic on it, fiqured it would
devolop in time.

[Arkaris]

I apologize yesterday was swamped and so is today I have not had time
to figure up any loot.

The party receives 5 xp for killing the ogres (yes 1 xp each) and no
xp for completeing any quests or returning with an information.

The Ogres carried 60 dragon-headed coins
All 5 hides (their armor) is worth 5 gold

Outside of the cave you find nothing else of value.

> > something for this?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jason]

*Busy counting profits* Sigh, monster hunting is just not as
profitable as it once was :P

[Tensers Imp]

Why? 5xp is just ludicrous, for a whole nights play. What a waste of
time. And I suppose the town who were paying for goblins killed just
say ogres bah, goblins are far more dangerous. I thought Conrad was
joking when he told me this, but now I realize you must be joking, you
are joking right? Tell me you are joking.

[Arkaris]

I am not joking. Nothing was accomplished by slaying the ogres, so
nothing is going to be rewarded.

[Tensers Imp]

Except the slaying of 5 ogres, the same ogres who had caused the mayor
to draw in patrols, etc. i just don't understand this kind of
attitude in a DM, this is supposed to be fun. Where is the fun in
telling eight people screw you you wasted my time have 5xp instead of
500 odd? Because I know it is not here.

If you had a problem with us facing the ogres you should have stopped
us fighting them you are the DM! You brought the things out, now you
are telling me your whole session was a collosal waste of time. Well
you've convinced me thanks for wasting my time.

[Arkaris]

The ogres have not had any impact upon the patrols, the goblins have.
The ogres have given no problems toward the patrols. When the group
reported back there were ogres, the mayor also gave no orders to
change plans due to that news. As far as the group knows those were
the only 5 ogres in the entire foothills.

[Tensers Imp]

I'd just ask that in future if we are taking on something which is of
no value you give an ooc head up, otherwise it's just a waste of
time. I'll admit you did offer that impression IC, and I was one of
the ones advocating flight, I would guess that people stuck around
thinking they would get XP, etc. Maybe just a quick... (((You can
fight, but minimal XP and loot be warned.)))

[Xeiro]

I stuck around cause it seemed the right thing to do, also never took
down an ogre before. You live and learn.

[Arkaris]

I will give no such warnings Tesners. The players are free to do
worthless acts and I will not stop them, this is as much your game as
mine. However, the largest rewards will be for finding supplies for
the city and completeing quests given by the leaders of the town. I
made it as perfectly clear as I could in game that there were multiple
ways out of the situation. If the players want to go chasing
waterfalls I am perfectly happy to let them do it. And we will spend
more game sessions doing pointless activities, until everyone gets
bored of being their current level and decides they want to advance
some.

> > fight, but minimal XP and loot be warned.)))- Hide quoted text -

[Tensers Imp]

That's not freedom it's be rail roaded or be punished to my mind at
least. Well i think everyone knows my opinion so I'll zip it now.

[Arkaris]

No railroading is forcing players to follow my story line. Should I
overly reward the players for slaughtering the population of
Stonereach too? That is what you essentially did, went and killed 5
ogres that had done nothing to the city, had no story driven plot to
kill, had no request for them to be removed from the area, and were
actually helping to stem the tide of goblins in their own fashion...
so if you walked out and burned down an inn with 300 people inside I
should give you the xp of killing 300 innocnets inside that building?
No. That is a bad argument and one that I will not accept as a reason
to reward the players who participated in that event.

In fact I will give you grounds as to why I SHOULD actually award
everyone negative xp for that adventure. 1) You took the time to
slaughter a group of ogres that had shown no aggression toward you or
to the city of stonereach, which in my opinion is also grounds for
shift in alignment. An event I gave ample opportunities for you all
to move away from. 2) You took away possible future adventures
dealing with them, now I have to take the time to drop in another plot
hook in to the game for future adventures. 3) You wasted the time I
invested in this game by not completeing the request of the mayor and
the priest of peolor, which would have netted in various goods and
artifacts to move the game and the world forward. 4) A group of
fellow adventurers are in desparate need of help and you all choose to
preform another action possibly killing them, which is a net loss in
personnel, information, and possible future plot hooks, which means a
GREATER investment of time for me, and I am leaving their fate up to
the dice now. 5) I was hoping to run a player focused adventure
tonight which now has to be scrapped and replaced by this quest.
There was a post on the forum about goblin scoutting that I would have
been more than happy to acomodate (and might have lead back to the
goblin underground city or where ever the group wanted to go) that now
we do not get to play, because you wanted to kill innocent ogres.

Now, having said that I want everyone to know I am not mad at the
situation, I am not discouraged, I am not unimpressed by the group. I
am not limiting the types of adventures, I do not wish this to be a
drain on anyone participating in future games. I am not even put off
by the game, and that I did actually reward a player with a great gift
because of the heroism he showed. The above paragraph is not a
reflection of my true feelings but is merely an intellectual statement
of why I feel I could be justified in handing out negative xp (an
event I will never do as gm of this game, unless given a far more
serious negative situation than what happened in that game).

In saying that I have no problems giving out misdirections and leading
the group off the beaten path, that is part of life, it is your job to
determine what is worth following and what is worth avoiding. Last
night a group was presented with a trap door that would not open,
several players said that they understood I didn't want them down in
the tunnel, the real reason they were unable to get down is just bad
dice (I rolled 20 in public for the strength of the door, without
using GM/rigged dice). After that roll the tunnel was locked, and it
took Serrenade to pick the latch and everyone went down. I was
perfectly fine and I gave the group the chance to explore the tunnel
and a few hints as to who built the tunnel. At that point I wanted
them to stop I gave them the cue to go any further would cause
suffocation and fort checks would be required. I will give plenty of
outs when I do not wish something to be continued, though the group
could have continued and hoped for good rolls. Instead they opted to
go disperse the information and they will be rewarded for doing that.

[Tensers Imp]

I do see where you are coming from, but from my recollection over half
the group wished to flee - including myself. I had my character stay
in part because I did not wish to split up the group OOC and in part
because I could not justify abandoning my fellow adventurers IC. It
was obvious you were hinting for us to do so and probably the sensible
course, I think we all know we only beat the creatures because they
came out essentially one at a time. But I feel like what for me was
an enjoyable first go with the group has been sullied because the
whole group has been essentially punished by a derogatory reward. I
had fun, but now when I look back on that game i will think, "Grrr 5xp
my bottom!", instead of, "Oh yeah the awesome ogre killing game!"