KMOX is done
Terry Lomax
station in the world. Jack Buck and Mike Shannon did Cardinal games.
Dan Kelly did Blues games. KMOX also did Big Red games.
The Blues moved away from KMOX. When the Rams moved to St. Louis,
other stations got to broadcast the games instead of KMOX. KMOX still
had the Cardinals, even though they made the bad move of playing Rush
Limberger instead of preseason games.
Now it appears the Cardinals won't be on KMOX anymore.
KMOX is done. No reason to listen to them anymore. The end of an era.
Soon they'll be a waste of a powerful transmitter.
The Cardinal owners are scum. While moving away from KMOX isn't nearly
as bad as stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from local taxpayers
to build the new stadium, it's still a bad move. Ideally they owners
will lose millions in advertising revenue.
nelli...@mindspring.com
especially at night because of the clear channel access. Not so with
KTRS. It's going to hurt the Cardinals in the long term. But then
they're probably more interested in luxury boxes and shoring up the
short term profits. At KMOX, Bob Hyland was the visionary who built
it into a powerhouse. The management that replaced him is just a
bunch of bottom liners - but not shrewd bottom liners. Seems like
each new iteration of that management gets dumber than the last one.
Meantime, Tim Dorsey, of KTRS, has been more than happy to take
everything that KMOX is too dumb to hold onto.
tph
renewal negotiations of their contract. A number that was substantially
lower then the previous contract.
I think Cardinal fan base may drop a little, but from a financial
standpoint you would have to agree with the move. They are being strategic
and gaining ownership in the station as well.
In the long run, it will be better for the Cardinals as an
organization.
I think KMOX shot themselves in the foot.
"Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123119996.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Bushido Hacks
switching to KTRS it is that the Cardinal Owners have decided to let a
local media owner take charge of broadcasting.
The Dorsey Media Group, who own KTRS, would control 50% of the radio
station and the St. Louis Cardinals Organization would control the
other 50%.
Dorsey Media is a local media company compared to that of Infinity
Broadcasting which owns KMOX and dozens of other radio stations in the
same way that Clear Channel and Emmis Communications have control of
the radio market. If anything, the Cardinals have liberated themselves
from Big Radio.
Infinity Broadcasting also owns KEZK and KYKY. Basically, they own
every radio station in the area that sucks with exception of Z107.7,
which Clear Channel owns. (Top 40 must die!)
Infinity is a divsion of Viacom. The same Viacom that owns eMpTyV
Networks.
KMOX is located in the same building as KMOV-TV. Channel 4's News
broadcasts are so full of crap. They make it sound like "Your gonna
die if you don't watch us!" It's like the local version of Fox News.
I basically have lost interest in watching any programming on CBS
because the reporters make the viewers sound inferior.
Perhaps there was also a little bit of listener bias between KTRS and
KMOX. When Paul Harris was fired from KTRS, KMOX immediately picked
him up. Many times I heard Frank O. Pinion refer to KMOX as "the old
people station". In alot of ways it is.
KTRS has alot of great programming. Coast-to-Coast AM from midnight to
5AM. The Rams and The Blues. Jim Cramer on Saturday Mornings. Frank
O. Pinion and The Large Morning Show in the Afternoon. Kevin Slaton,
Wendy Weiss, Dan Dierdorf. Just about everyone except someone who does
a technology show like David Lawrence or Kim Kommando or even some
local geek who is willing to give it a try.
This is not the end of an era, just a new beginning.
jt august
"Bushido Hacks" <bushid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Infinity is a divsion of Viacom. The same Viacom that owns eMpTyV
> Networks.
I like that comment. Mind if I plagiarize it?
> Perhaps there was also a little bit of listener bias between KTRS and
> KMOX. When Paul Harris was fired from KTRS, KMOX immediately picked
> him up. Many times I heard Frank O. Pinion refer to KMOX as "the old
> people station". In a lot of ways it is.
"The 50,000 watt voice of Delmar Gardens." Actually, a line Frank heard
J.C. Corcoran use during the short time J.C. was on KTRS. Because of
the the contract J.C. had with KTRS, Frank can get away with using this,
even though it falls within content copyrights that J.C. retained. That
line is amoung a multi-page filing of copyrighted lines and items J.C.
Corcoran has on file, and anyone else on any other radio station can be
barred from using it, but since J.C. coined the phrase while at KTRS, a
clause in that contract gives Frank leeway to use it.
> KTRS has a lot of great programming. Coast-to-Coast AM from midnight to
> 5AM. The Rams and The Blues. Jim Cramer on Saturday Mornings. Frank
> O. Pinion and The Large Morning Show in the Afternoon. Kevin Slaton,
> Wendy Weiss, Dan Dierdorf. Just about everyone except someone who does
> a technology show like David Lawrence or Kim Kommando or even some
> local geek who is willing to give it a try.
I should point out that KTRS had Kim K., and let the contract lapse due
to poor audience ratings and response, and KMOX picked it up almost a
year after KTRS let it drop.
jt
jt august
"tph" <her...@olin.wustl.edu> wrote:
> From what I understand, KMOX low-balled the Cardinals in the
> renewal negotiations of their contract. A number that was substantially
> lower then the previous contract.
Cardinals ratings, as have all of KMOX's ratings, has dropped so
massively in the last decade. Lush Rimshot - er - Rush Limbaugh is 13th
in its midday time slot. Total info a.m. and p.m. are both in the 6-10
positions for their respective dayparts. During the Cardinals seasons,
ratings are trackably higher, but still pale compared to the Bob
Highland days when the Mighty MOX reigned supreme.
There was a time when ratings service clearly demonstrated that a lot of
people watched Cards games with the sound down and KMOX on. Since the
passing of the Legend, jack Buck, this is no longer true. Mike Shannon,
while a current institution, does not hold audiences the way Mr. Buck
did. Additionally, KMOX tagalong programming about the Cards has very
poor ratings, and with low ratings comes reduced ad revenue. KMOX
cannot afford to pay what they did before.
> I think Cardinal fan base may drop a little, but from a financial
> standpoint you would have to agree with the move. They are being strategic
> and gaining ownership in the station as well.
All the publicly available financial data supports this, and the Card's
have access to additional data to further support it. Otherwise, they
would not have done this deal. They are now in a position to draw
profits from all the local baseball programming, not just the games
themselves, along with profits from other time slots, and from hockey
and rams broadcasts if those sports remain on KTRS (still a big question
mark). the Cards management believes this move has the potential to
help keep ticket prices down. And before you say anything, they
recognize that lower profits on more sell outs is more long term profit
than higher profits on very few sell outs, so keeping prices down IS in
their long term interest. Look at the Wal-Mart example, where they sell
more than any other single competitor, but even though each items's
profit is less, the shear quantity makes the gross profit quite gross.
> In the long run, it will be better for the Cardinals as an
> organization.
Only time will tell, but I personally agree.
> I think KMOX shot themselves in the foot.
Again!
jt
jt august
"Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> KMOX is done. No reason to listen to them anymore. The end of an era.
> Soon they'll be a waste of a powerful transmitter.
Soon? How about now. Their ratings pale compared to the past. The
station has been hurting during Cards off season, and now they won't
have that to look forward to. They are living a failing legacy.
Mid-days are now off satellite, their legendary Peabody and other major
national award winners have retired and the replacement talent is not of
the same caliber. They stole Harris from KTRS in hopes of taking the
competitor that was beating Limbaugh and putting him on after the Rush,
and now Harris' ratings are trackably down. Once the place for traffic,
their traffic reporters now actually work for the asme area wide
contract service that feeds all traffic reports to all competing
stations such that their service does not stand above the others. And
weather is now fed from out of town instead of having a locally
recognized meteorologist (they had Ben Able who was at the national
weather service, but based here in STL, and had a strong local
recognition).
As to the argument that after dark, their signal won't carry to distant
reaches, this is where adaptive technologies will step in. Games are
streamed on the internet through mlb.com and currently kmox.com, so I
will presume that ktrs.com will also stream. Also, both satellite radio
services offer national baseball packages that carry all games, day and
night, so listeners in OK or WA will be able to listen at any time of
day.
> The Cardinal owners are scum. While moving away from KMOX isn't nearly
> as bad as stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from local taxpayers
> to build the new stadium,
Oh, please. Give it up, Terry.
> it's still a bad move. Ideally they owners
> will lose millions in advertising revenue.
Keep blowing the candle, your wish won't come true. This move will
definitely benefit the Cards. The only ones who will suffer are KMOX,
and that is not a bad thing in my humble opinion.
jt
Kevin Childers
station I've ever listened to a Cards game on.
KC
"jt august" <star...@att.net> wrote in message
news:starsabre-0B39E...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
nelli...@mindspring.com
>In article <1123196174.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bushido Hacks" <bushid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Infinity is a divsion of Viacom. The same Viacom that owns eMpTyV
>> Networks.
>
>I like that comment. Mind if I plagiarize it?
>
>> Perhaps there was also a little bit of listener bias between KTRS and
>> KMOX. When Paul Harris was fired from KTRS, KMOX immediately picked
>> him up. Many times I heard Frank O. Pinion refer to KMOX as "the old
>> people station". In a lot of ways it is.
>
>"The 50,000 watt voice of Delmar Gardens." Actually, a line Frank heard
>J.C. Corcoran use during the short time J.C. was on KTRS. Because of
>the the contract J.C. had with KTRS, Frank can get away with using this,
>even though it falls within content copyrights that J.C. retained. That
>line is amoung a multi-page filing of copyrighted lines and items J.C.
>Corcoran has on file, and anyone else on any other radio station can be
>barred from using it, but since J.C. coined the phrase while at KTRS, a
>clause in that contract gives Frank leeway to use it.
>
I was listening to Frank O. Pinion after the Cardinals announced the
new lineup. He was chorting it up about the signal strength issue.
He claimed that old coots don't know about iPods, satellite radio, the
internet, and they don't even know how to tune a different radio
station. Plus, only old coots were complaining. Man, he was talking
like 80, 90, 100 years old. Ergo, everything's OK! Now, I do like
Frank's programs (ladies, could you come in here...), but seriously -
iPods? Don't people tune to the ballgame to get real time results?
Yeah, Frank, I'll be able tune into the ballgame with my iPod in real
time! How old is Frank? When the old coots catch on to satellite
radio, they might just decide to tune into some other ballgame.
Anyway, Frank might try be a little more diplomatic - he might need
KMOX when KTRS starts bumping his AM in the PM shows. Heck, Geritol
might be a big sponsor.
I also caught Paul Harris' program when he interviewed the person in
New York that had done the negotiating. My first thoughts were - what
the hell was this guy doing sitting in New York when he should have
been here for the negotiations? Then he went on about how it just
didn't make financial sense for KMOX and Infinity, so they all decided
to go their own ways. Plus the Cards didn't have enough sense to know
they were going to make more money by getting the lower money deal.
Huh?
jt august
nelli...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Plus the Cards didn't have enough sense to know
> they were going to make more money by getting the lower money deal.
> Huh?
Missed that one. Let's see, lower money = more money. Sorry, even with
my old HP calculator (RPN), it just doesn't add up.
jt
Terry Lomax
> I was listening to Frank O. Pinion after the Cardinals announced the
...
> Anyway, Frank might try be a little more diplomatic - he might need
> KMOX when KTRS starts bumping his AM in the PM shows. Heck, Geritol
What is his slogan "AM in the PM" supposed to mean? An AM radio show
in the afternoon? Occasionally I see a car with "I'm AM in the PM" as
a bumper sticker, probably a station giveaway. Who would be motivated
to put something so lame on their vehicle?
nelli...@mindspring.com
I'll top that one for you! Today, I saw an Illinois license plate
that read "AM N PM 2". Sheesh. Supposedly, it's supposed to be the
morning show in the afternoon. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but
it does seem to be catchy.
jt august
nelli...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >What is his slogan "AM in the PM" supposed to mean? An AM radio show
> >in the afternoon? Occasionally I see a car with "I'm AM in the PM" as
> >a bumper sticker, probably a station giveaway. Who would be motivated
> >to put something so lame on their vehicle?
>
> I'll top that one for you! Today, I saw an Illinois license plate
> that read "AM N PM 2". Sheesh. Supposedly, it's supposed to be the
> morning show in the afternoon. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but
> it does seem to be catchy.
Frank's concept is that he is putting on a morning radio style show in
the afternoon. A mostly talky show, with a lot of humor, ala JC
Corcoran, Philips and Co., the now defunct (locally) Steve and DC,
Howard Stern, etc. No one else does that sort of programme in the
afternoons in local radio. The the concept of AM (morning) in the PM
(afternoon).
And yes, those bumper stickers mentioned above are promotional
giveaways. As to who would be so motivated, I would say people who are
hard core fans of Frank's show. Lust like KSHE fans are motivated to
put KSHE bumper stickers on their cars.
jt
BrentJ
>
> And yes, those bumper stickers mentioned above are promotional
> giveaways. As to who would be so motivated, I would say people who are
> hard core fans of Frank's show. Lust like KSHE fans are motivated to
> put KSHE bumper stickers on their cars.
>
> jt
I've seen a license plate in Illinois that said KSHE. This is the kind
of thing that happens when you let people have personalized license
plates at no extra cost.
Funny, I've never seen a KMOX.
BrentJ
Terry Lomax
jt august wrote:
> nellie4526 wrote:
> > I'll top that one for you! Today, I saw an Illinois license plate
> > that read "AM N PM 2". Sheesh. Supposedly, it's supposed to be the
> > morning show in the afternoon. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but
> > it does seem to be catchy.
>
> Frank's concept is that he is putting on a morning radio style show in
> the afternoon. A mostly talky show, with a lot of humor, ala JC
> Corcoran, Philips and Co., the now defunct (locally) Steve and DC,
> Howard Stern, etc. No one else does that sort of programme in the
> afternoons in local radio. The the concept of AM (morning) in the PM
> (afternoon).
Thanks to both for the explanations.
Turned on 550 just before the 3:30 PM press conference this past week,
and the show indeed sounded like a morning show. It was like the local
JC shows and the syndicated "Bob & Tom" show, with the hosts unfocused,
cutting each other off and laughing at literally everything. One host
laughed about the death of another host's dog. As with JC and Bob &
Tom, they sound like middle aged people with adolescent minds. Very
typical of a "morning show".
As to the press conference, ideally KTRS will improve their broadcasts
by the time they air Cardinals games. The sound went through various
stages of distortion: robotic voices, fading, echoes, etc. That
combined with the lame "morning show" that preceeded the conference
does not make a good impression.
They did say they'd simulcast Cardinal games on the 106.1 Litchfield
station. That should have better reception when driving under bridges,
during lightning strikes, etc. Music listeners might remember in the
mid 1980s the Litchfield station played some cool hard rock for a
while.
Another abbreviation I have yet to decipher is the "AMF" used by a KSHE
DJ when his shift is up. Anyone know what that means? "Adios, Mother
----ers?"
jt august
BrentJ <bre...@dontspamme.charter.isaiddontspamme.net> wrote:
It is commonly known among St. Louisans who listen to said station that
there are 37 boys named Kshe (in various spellings). This happens when
you let people have personalized names for their kids at no extra
charge.
And FWIW, I've seen KSHE plates in MO not owned by the station. Same
for Y98, The Point and KLOU.
jt
jt august
"Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Turned on 550 just before the 3:30 PM press conference this past week,
> and the show indeed sounded like a morning show. It was like the local
> JC shows and the syndicated "Bob & Tom" show, with the hosts unfocused,
> cutting each other off and laughing at literally everything. One host
> laughed about the death of another host's dog. As with JC and Bob &
> Tom, they sound like middle aged people with adolescent minds. Very
> typical of a "morning show".
And the thing is that Frank is almost 80. He was middle aged back in
the 70's when he had an argument with a now former station manager from
KSHE about the joint sweatmeat smoked. But he prides himself on his
adolescent mindedness regarding his show.
jt
jt august
"Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> As to the press conference, ideally KTRS will improve their broadcasts
> by the time they air Cardinals games. The sound went through various
> stages of distortion: robotic voices, fading, echoes, etc. That
> combined with the lame "morning show" that preceeded the conference
> does not make a good impression.
Their lame "morning show" gets better ratings than KMOX's Total
Information PM. The MOX's falling ratings were a important factor in
the decision. Not the top factor or the most important, but it did
figure in. KTRS beats KMOX in all dayparts except John Carney's late
night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games.
> They did say they'd simulcast Cardinal games on the 106.1 Litchfield
> station. That should have better reception when driving under bridges,
> during lightning strikes, etc. Music listeners might remember in the
> mid 1980s the Litchfield station played some cool hard rock for a
> while.
Yeah. Many times people (myself included) thought KWK was returning the
"Rockin' Best" format (digital radio tuners ended that confusion). I
have some LPs I got free from an appearance they made once in
Carlinville.
> Another abbreviation I have yet to decipher is the "AMF" used by a KSHE
> DJ when his shift is up. Anyone know what that means? "Adios, Mother
> ----ers?"
Yup. That or "Adios my friends." (Did a google search to find this
answer.)
jt
Bushido Hacks
jt august wrote:
> In article <1123196174.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bushido Hacks" <bushid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Infinity is a divsion of Viacom. The same Viacom that owns eMpTyV
> > Networks.
>
> I like that comment. Mind if I plagiarize it?
>
> > Perhaps there was also a little bit of listener bias between KTRS and
> > KMOX. When Paul Harris was fired from KTRS, KMOX immediately picked
> > him up. Many times I heard Frank O. Pinion refer to KMOX as "the old
> > people station". In a lot of ways it is.
>
> "The 50,000 watt voice of Delmar Gardens." Actually, a line Frank heard
> J.C. Corcoran use during the short time J.C. was on KTRS. Because of
> the the contract J.C. had with KTRS, Frank can get away with using this,
> even though it falls within content copyrights that J.C. retained. That
> line is amoung a multi-page filing of copyrighted lines and items J.C.
> Corcoran has on file, and anyone else on any other radio station can be
> barred from using it, but since J.C. coined the phrase while at KTRS, a
> clause in that contract gives Frank leeway to use it.
>
> > KTRS has a lot of great programming. Coast-to-Coast AM from midnight to
> > 5AM. The Rams and The Blues. Jim Cramer on Saturday Mornings. Frank
> > O. Pinion and The Large Morning Show in the Afternoon. Kevin Slaton,
> > Wendy Weiss, Dan Dierdorf. Just about everyone except someone who does
> > a technology show like David Lawrence or Kim Kommando or even some
> > local geek who is willing to give it a try.
>
> I should point out that KTRS had Kim K., and let the contract lapse due
> to poor audience ratings and response, and KMOX picked it up almost a
> year after KTRS let it drop.
>
I can see that. David Lawrence was always the better guy. I wish Leo
Laporte would go national. That guy would have ratings through the
roof! G4 has turned TechTV into another eMpTyV. I'm tired of people
about video games. I want to see people brag about Linux and
programming and mods to peoples computers. Radio is way better than TV
anyday!
> jt
Bushido Hacks
theory may be retro but are way better. Besides, when's the last time
there were hidden sex scenes in a TI-83 program?
Bushido Hacks
New York sucks anyway.
nelli...@mindspring.com
>I can see that. David Lawrence was always the better guy. I wish Leo
>Laporte would go national. That guy would have ratings through the
>roof! G4 has turned TechTV into another eMpTyV. I'm tired of people
>about video games. I want to see people brag about Linux and
>programming and mods to peoples computers. Radio is way better than TV
>anyday!
>> jt
Leo Laporte does some podcasts, now. Check out
http://thisweekintech.com/. Agree with you about TechTV. It was a
great show when Leo was hosting it. G4 has tried their best to ruin
the TechTV concept, but somehow it still hangs in there. "Attack of
the Show" seems to be an appropriate name.
BrentJ
> In article <H%nJe.8813$Tt6...@fe04.lga>,
> It is commonly known among St. Louisans who listen to said station that
> there are 37 boys named Kshe (in various spellings). This happens when
> you let people have personalized names for their kids at no extra
> charge.
>
> And FWIW, I've seen KSHE plates in MO not owned by the station. Same
> for Y98, The Point and KLOU.
>
> jt
You know, I like radio, but that's just pushing it a bit.
Personally when it comes to AM, I'd rather listen to the fundy-christian
nuts, such as you find on 630. They may be mostly insane, but at least
they have a point to deliver. I find it good entertainment.
So they have the Cardinals on the radio now? Radio entertains me while
I make my overly long commute (out of the city) of 40 minutes and back
home, but if I audio entertainment any other time, I head for internet
radio. At least they generally don't have a bottom line to worry about,
and instead of a crowded dial of a few local stations, I can get
thousands from around the world.
BrentJ
Ken
Too big?
Wrong color?
Did the pig steal it?
How can you argue over a joint?
Kevin Childers
Pass it on over here again...."
-I don't remember who said it first-
Could have been his last joint, could have been from his private stash.
What about joint ownership? Who knows, a lot of things can be argued about
a joint.
"Ken" <Hown...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ooahf1pj66dja4lt4...@4ax.com...
jt august
Ken <Hown...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Frank tells the story that sweatmeat was smoking a doobie, and
supposedly the then station manager denied it was a joint.
Ken
How did Frank know it was MJ?
Was Frank's small, stale stash surreptitiously stolen?
Maybe Sweetmeat is a hand roller of tobbacky?
Guess Old baldy thought it made for a bad image?
Hah! KSHE with a bad image? Hah again!
From one who liked Crestwood more when the 66 Drive-In was open.
jt august
Ken <Hown...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It ain't joint unless it's got Mary Jane in it.
> How did Frank know it was MJ?
> Was Frank's small, stale stash surreptitiously stolen?
> Maybe Sweetmeat is a hand roller of tobbacky?
>
> Guess Old baldy thought it made for a bad image?
> Hah! KSHE with a bad image? Hah again!
Well, back in the 70's (when the argument took place), younger folks
(teens and 20's) embraced the joint image openly. That was back in the
days when more than half the audience at most rock concerts were smoking
joints openly. Frank was in his 50's back then, so he was on the old
fogeys side of this issue from the outset.
Sweatmeat has had a colorful history. Yes, at one time, that was a
joint hanging from his mouth. At one point in the 80's, it was changed
to a filtered cigarette. Then the smoking was eliminated. Now the
mouthstick is back, and it isn't quite so clear whether it is a cig or a
joint, although if you ask anyone who works for KSHE, they will declare
it is a cigarette.
And KSHE has been known for having a mostly badass image, that's for
sure.
jt
David Loewe, Jr.
alt.sports.baseball.stl-cardinals added as this discussion has *some*
bearing on that NG.
>In article <1123430617.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As to the press conference, ideally KTRS will improve their broadcasts
>> by the time they air Cardinals games. The sound went through various
>> stages of distortion: robotic voices, fading, echoes, etc. That
>> combined with the lame "morning show" that preceeded the conference
>> does not make a good impression.
>
>Their lame "morning show" gets better ratings than KMOX's Total
>Information PM. The MOX's falling ratings were a important factor in
>the decision. Not the top factor or the most important, but it did
>figure in. KTRS beats KMOX in all dayparts except John Carney's late
>night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games.
This *has* to be utter bullshit.
KMOX had a 8.5 in Winter 2005 while KTRS had a 3.2.
I don't see *any* way for KTRS to be beating KMOX "in all dayparts
except John Carney's late night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games." and
still lose the Winter ratings - when there are no Cards ball games -
by an over two to one margin.
>
>> They did say they'd simulcast Cardinal games on the 106.1 Litchfield
>> station. That should have better reception when driving under bridges,
>> during lightning strikes, etc. Music listeners might remember in the
>> mid 1980s the Litchfield station played some cool hard rock for a
>> while.
>
>Yeah. Many times people (myself included) thought KWK was returning the
>"Rockin' Best" format (digital radio tuners ended that confusion). I
>have some LPs I got free from an appearance they made once in
>Carlinville.
--
"Time passes and you must move on,
Half the distance takes you twice as long
So you keep on singing for the sake of the song
After the thrill is gone."
Don Henley & Glenn Frey
jt august
"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Their lame "morning show" gets better ratings than KMOX's Total
> >Information PM. The MOX's falling ratings were a important factor in
> >the decision. Not the top factor or the most important, but it did
> >figure in. KTRS beats KMOX in all dayparts except John Carney's late
> >night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games.
>
> This *has* to be utter bullshit.
>
> KMOX had a 8.5 in Winter 2005 while KTRS had a 3.2.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ao367
>
> I don't see *any* way for KTRS to be beating KMOX "in all dayparts
> except John Carney's late night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games." and
> still lose the Winter ratings - when there are no Cards ball games -
> by an over two to one margin.
OK, note that the list you sited was on the !@+ overalls, which means
every pair of ears 12 years of age and older. This includes 12-15 year
olds, 75-100 Year olds (the KMOX set), male, female and other. My info
is admittedly a breakdown of the 25-54 male/female joint demographic.
This info came from a buddy who works in an ad placement agency in the
area, and I cannot identify the person or the agency because the info is
proprietary, and it could impact this person's company's access to these
numbers if they are identified as a source of public distribution.
That having been said, I would point out that the OVERWHELMING majority
of advertising is not geared towards everyone who listens to the radio,
and advertisers want to advertise to relevant demographics. To that
end, 25-54 is the most important age bracket, and on a gender breakdown,
women are more important than men. In this prime listening audience,
KMOX is hurting like you wouldn't believe. KMOX is strong in males 45
and up, and fairly strong with women in the same age bracket. Audience
shares drop of unfathomably as you trickle down that various age break
points; 36-44, 25-25, 18-24, 12-17.
Listen to the ads KMOX sells and you can get a feel for who is
listening; Kutis Funeral Home, Delmar Gardens, Blue Star Ointment.
jt
Atlanta Cardfan
And Frederick Roofing has been getting nationwide ads every summer
for more than 50 years. I'm sure Empire Carpet started with the
Chicago teams, but I began hearing the 588-2300 number before I
was a teenager many moons ago, and now it's a completely national
chain.
Cardinal fans across the country will have to brace for the fact that
when you're driving any distance during a summer evening, an old
friend that used to be there on the dial will no longer be there;
not, at least, with a Cardinals broadcast.
I was listening to the Braves "new, demographically better" station,
WGST while the Cards & Braves recent series was going on. I was at
the northern edge of Fulton County on Windward Parkway, the VERY
COUNTY in which the Braves play, when the signal faded to nothing
but static. I tuned in to KMOX and was able to hear Mike Shannon's
call the rest of the way home.
For those of you in St. Louis, that doesn't mean a thing, but for
those of us who HAVE been listening for close to 50 years, it's
not dissimilar to hearing the familiar voices of your childhood
fade away never to come back.
And if you think I'm ready to up and dump some cash into Howard
Stern's coffers for the same priviledge, you're thick as a brick.
The Cardinal's calculated loss of me and hundreds of thousands
like me is as short sited as each of the MLB cities making the
same decision.
KMOX won't be hurt at all. They'll just take that clear channel
and blast out another conservative talk show, just like WSB in
Atlanta did, and their ratings will improve as they move to
become a completely conservative talk-show format, which has
been proven as a winner throughout the country. Perhaps the
reason KMOX didn't strive any harder to keep the Cardinals is
because they were licking their chops at the national ad
revenue they could pull in that way.
Well, I can say I'm happy for Dan Dierdorf, who I understand
is an investor in KTRS, but for Cardinals fans outside of their
miniscule broadcasting environment, it's a sad day.
Paul
Unclaimed Mysteries
> Cardinal fans across the country will have to brace for the fact that
> when you're driving any distance during a summer evening, an old
> friend that used to be there on the dial will no longer be there;
> not, at least, with a Cardinals broadcast.
>
> I was listening to the Braves "new, demographically better" station,
> WGST while the Cards & Braves recent series was going on. I was at
> the northern edge of Fulton County on Windward Parkway, the VERY
> COUNTY in which the Braves play, when the signal faded to nothing
> but static. I tuned in to KMOX and was able to hear Mike Shannon's
> call the rest of the way home.
>
When I was a kid I used to think those 50kW clear channel stations such
as WSB, KMOX, and WLW were cool too. But I later learned that in order
to protect their gigantic regional coverage areas the FCC forced many
local stations to undesirable frequencies, bizarre antenna patterns, and
anemic power levels. Small towns were often ill-served by the crippled
stations.
At one time these powerful stations might have been useful, but the
scarcity of radio stations in the US hasn't been an issue for several
decades.
Oh, yeah, WGST 640 is at low power at night to "protect" 50kW KFI in Los
Angeles, and 50kW KYUK in Bethel, AK.
Corry
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"
Mark Lar
> Atlanta Cardfan wrote in part:
dafuk did this thread come from?
jt august
Atlanta Cardfan <us...@example.net> wrote:
> KMOX won't be hurt at all. They'll just take that clear channel
> and blast out another conservative talk show, just like WSB in
> Atlanta did, and their ratings will improve as they move to
> become a completely conservative talk-show format, which has
> been proven as a winner throughout the country.
Here in St. Louis, we have an FM station that is already an all
conservative, all talk station, and they are not the biggest winners in
the market. Also, remember that historically, populace political
preferences sway, and the time will come when such hard core
conservatism will lose momentum. When that happens, the current batch
of shows will drop off the landscape.
> Perhaps the
> reason KMOX didn't strive any harder to keep the Cardinals is
> because they were licking their chops at the national ad
> revenue they could pull in that way.
KMOX offered less money for the next contract than they did in the
previous contract. And whether you look at the previously posted url
for the 12+ overalls or the more profitable 25-54 demographics, KMOX's
numbers drop off dramatically during the Cards off season. Next year,
their ratings will not get that boost, and that will hurt overall
revenues perceptibly. And if you say that satellite based programming
is the profitable answer, I would point to their current satellite show,
Rush Limbaugh, which is 13th in its time slot on the 25-54 demo, and
lower in breakdown when expanded to 18-63. Such pathetic ratings make
selling ads hard and profits low. I anticipate that KMOX will not renew
Limbaugh when the time comes.
jt
Unclaimed Mysteries
Exactly. While most USENET threads in the Age of the Internets were
domestically produced, these days more and more are outsourced. This
thread originated in Dafuk, Malayistanopore.
As usual, it's Clinton's fault.
Dick Sidbury
> Mark Lar wrote:
>
>> Unclaimed Mysteries wrote:
>>
>>> Atlanta Cardfan wrote in part:
>>
>>
>> dafuk did this thread come from?
>
>
> Exactly. While most USENET threads in the Age of the Internets were
> domestically produced, these days more and more are outsourced. This
> thread originated in Dafuk, Malayistanopore.
>
> As usual, it's Clinton's fault.
>
Well that goes without saying.
dick
-- Way to go Corry. This looks like a POTY nominee and probably a shoo
in for POTD.
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
<SACAIGAP>
I'm trying to figure out why you added the braves group...
--
"Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist."
- Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones
Dale Hicks
dlo...@mindspring.com says...
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:12:26 GMT, Atlanta Cardfan <us...@example.net>
> wrote:
>
> <SACAIGAP>
>
> I'm trying to figure out why you added the braves group...
My only guess is he's complaining about the switch from high-power AM to
low-range FM, which has happened with the radio coverage of the Braves
recently. So maybe he wanted someone to say "yeah, this is horrible".
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
Atlanta Cardfan
> In article <c08vf1lvt0l05nhg5...@4ax.com>,
> dlo...@mindspring.com says...
>
>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:12:26 GMT, Atlanta Cardfan <us...@example.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>><SACAIGAP>
>>
>>I'm trying to figure out why you added the braves group...
>
>
> My only guess is he's complaining about the switch from high-power AM to
> low-range FM, which has happened with the radio coverage of the Braves
> recently. So maybe he wanted someone to say "yeah, this is horrible".
No one in the Cardinals group has a clue where Windward Parkway is.
You're right about the FM, I wasn't thinking at the time, I guess I
could have located DAVE-FM or whatever FM station the Braves are playing
on, it was just much easier to hit my memorized KMOX AM button.
Besides, as much as I like Skip, I'd much rather hear Shannon boast
about the ice cold Bud in his hand. ;-)
If you happen to drive outside of the FM signal range, you're screwed
on hearing the Braves broadcast as well. You can pick the game up
again once you're within 20 miles of B'ham, but you lose it just
as quickly on the other side.
Aren't you guys tired of the sports radio roulette in Atlanta? There
is not one major sport of 4 that is on the same station it was two (2)
years ago. I know, I'm an old fart and therefore I must hate change.
A little bit of consistency can't hurt, though, and you shouldn't have
to do a channel search to find the football, basketball, and hockey
broadcasts either.
Paul
Lance Freezeland
<dlo...@mindspring.com> gave us:
><SACAIGAP>
>I'm trying to figure out why you added the braves group...
Me too. Those guys are bastards.
--
Lance
"There are three-hundred thousand sportswriters
and they're all against me. Every one of them."
-- Joaquin Andujar
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Lance Freezeland
us:
Do you have a source for this information?
--
Lance
"Luck? If the roof fell in and Diz (Dean) was sitting
in the middle of the room, everybody else would be
buried and a gumdrop would fall in his mouth."
-- Leo Durocher
Dick Sidbury
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:49:16 -0500, "David Loewe, Jr."
> <dlo...@mindspring.com> gave us:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:12:26 GMT, Atlanta Cardfan <us...@example.net>
>>wrote:
>
>
>><SACAIGAP>
>
>
>>I'm trying to figure out why you added the braves group...
>
>
> Me too. Those guys are bastards.
Well that goes without saying, you're one of us.
dick
-- well, at least you post "here" a lot.
David Loewe, Jr.
13th behind what? If it's behind music, then who cares? Those are
different audiences.
>
>Do you have a source for this information?
I'm having trouble buying into this as well. As I posted, KMOX leads
KTRS by over 2.5 to 1 in overall ratings - in the winter when the
Cardinals are out of the equation. I don't see how you can lose 25-54
as badly as this guy implies and still beat KTRS by over 2.5 to 1. It
seems to me that every 12-24 and 55-over person in the metro area
would have to listening in order for that to occur.
--
"Small wonder that human beings in general disgust me."
Fred J. McCall in <qoil6vog8pbc1m252...@4ax.com>
Judge Phelps
<theletter_k_and...@unclaimedmysteries.net> wrote:
> But I later learned that in order to protect their gigantic regional coverage areas the FCC forced many
>local stations to undesirable frequencies, bizarre antenna patterns, and anemic power levels.
Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
ziggy
maybe kenneth knows.
--
zig
i don't need hair. i have a beanie.
(sam in a.s.b.a-b)
David Loewe, Jr.
>Listen to the ads KMOX sells and you can get a feel for who is
>listening; Kutis Funeral Home, Delmar Gardens, Blue Star Ointment.
Funny...
I spent all day yesterday listening to KMOX. I heard ads for mortgage
brokers, gutter covers, cars, jewelry stores, clothiers, tree services
and a whole bunch more. I did not, however, hear one ad for Kutis,
Delmar Gardens or Blue Star Ointment. I have in the past (the rather
distant past for Blue Star), but not yesterday (and, one of the
reasons I picked yesterday was because there was no Cards game).
The ads seemed solidly aimed at young to middle-aged, middle-class St
Louis adults with children - you know, 24-54. Even the Delmar Gardens
ads I can recall involve you deciding on which nursing home is right
*for your aged parent*.
--
"I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've
always worked for me."
- Hunter S. Thompson
Unclaimed Mysteries
> Judge Phelps wrote:
>
>>Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
>
>
> maybe kenneth knows.
>
Heh.
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
Of course I went to law school. - Warren Zevon, "Mr. Bad Example"
Unclaimed Mysteries
> Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
>
The higher the frequency, the less local "ground wave" coverage. All
other things being equal, a station on 750 will have better *local*
coverage than one at 1570. Or even 1120.
Ned Flanders
IOW, no difference that matters
Dale Hicks
theletter_k_and...@unclaimedmysteries.net says...
> ziggy wrote:
> > Judge Phelps wrote:
> >
>
> >>Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
> >
> >
> > maybe kenneth knows.
> >
>
> Heh.
Cue Daniel.
Unclaimed Mysteries
> In article <%fpMe.7620$Je....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> theletter_k_and...@unclaimedmysteries.net says...
>
>>ziggy wrote:
>>
>>>Judge Phelps wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
>>>
>>>
>>>maybe kenneth knows.
>>>
>>
>>Heh.
>
>
> Cue Daniel.
>
Done.
http://evolution-control.com/cbs.html
http://evolution-control.com/sounds/The%20Evolution%20Control%20Committee%20-%20Rocked%20By%20Rape.mp3
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
The Julio Franco of rsfc
ziggy
> Dale Hicks wrote:
>
>> In article <%fpMe.7620$Je....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
>> theletter_k_and...@unclaimedmysteries.net says...
>>
>>> ziggy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Judge Phelps wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> maybe kenneth knows.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heh.
>>
>>
>> Cue Daniel.
>>
>
> Done.
>
> http://evolution-control.com/cbs.html
> http://evolution-control.com/sounds/The%20Evolution%20Control%20Committee%20-%20Rocked%20By%20Rape.mp3
very cool.
thanks. :)
--
zig
Ain't no combover like a Keady combover 'cos a Keady combover don't stop.
(unclaimed mysteries in a.s.b.a-b)
Unclaimed Mysteries
> Unclaimed Mysteries wrote:
>
>>http://evolution-control.com/cbs.html
>>http://evolution-control.com/sounds/The%20Evolution%20Control%20Committee%20-%20Rocked%20By%20Rape.mp3
>
>
> very cool.
> thanks. :)
>
Yer welcome. It's rude, childish, and irredeemably tasteless. Much more
pleasant than contemplating the Braves' bullpen.
Unclaimed Mysteries
> Always less than 1 uVolt of attenuation per meter of 1/2 wave dipole.
> IOW, no difference that matters
>
The relative strength of a ground wave transmitted at 550kHz and one at
1620 kHz is noticeable, all else being the same.
Lance Freezeland
us:
>In article <1123430617.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Terry Lomax" <Lom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Turned on 550 just before the 3:30 PM press conference this past week,
>> and the show indeed sounded like a morning show. It was like the local
>> JC shows and the syndicated "Bob & Tom" show, with the hosts unfocused,
>> cutting each other off and laughing at literally everything. One host
>> laughed about the death of another host's dog. As with JC and Bob &
>> Tom, they sound like middle aged people with adolescent minds. Very
>> typical of a "morning show".
>And the thing is that Frank is almost 80. He was middle aged back in
>the 70's when he had an argument with a now former station manager from
>KSHE about the joint sweatmeat smoked. But he prides himself on his
>adolescent mindedness regarding his show.
Frank's 55. His website says that he was born December 14, 1949.
That's him, the bald guy on the left in the picture on the front page.
--
Lance
"I believe in the Church of Baseball" Annie Savoy
Lance Freezeland
us:
>In article <3lvsf1dvaf8ccdhqb...@4ax.com>,
> "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >Their lame "morning show" gets better ratings than KMOX's Total
>> >Information PM. The MOX's falling ratings were a important factor in
>> >the decision. Not the top factor or the most important, but it did
>> >figure in. KTRS beats KMOX in all dayparts except John Carney's late
>> >night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games.
>> This *has* to be utter bullshit.
>> KMOX had a 8.5 in Winter 2005 while KTRS had a 3.2.
>> http://tinyurl.com/ao367
>> I don't see *any* way for KTRS to be beating KMOX "in all dayparts
>> except John Carney's late night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games." and
>> still lose the Winter ratings - when there are no Cards ball games -
>> by an over two to one margin.
>OK, note that the list you sited was on the !@+ overalls, which means
>every pair of ears 12 years of age and older. This includes 12-15 year
>olds, 75-100 Year olds (the KMOX set), male, female and other. My info
>is admittedly a breakdown of the 25-54 male/female joint demographic.
>This info came from a buddy who works in an ad placement agency in the
>area, and I cannot identify the person or the agency because the info is
>proprietary, and it could impact this person's company's access to these
>numbers if they are identified as a source of public distribution.
I'm still waiting to see your source on Limbaugh's ratings. I agree
with you that Frank O. Pinion wins his timeslot of afternoon drive,
but that's about the only time that KTRS does well. Since you've
already proven that you're willing to make stuff up (your assertion
that Frank was old back in the 1970s), I remain dubious until I see
the data.
Lance Freezeland
<dlo...@mindspring.com> gave us:
>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:23:29 GMT, jt august <star...@att.net> wrote:
>>Listen to the ads KMOX sells and you can get a feel for who is
>>listening; Kutis Funeral Home, Delmar Gardens, Blue Star Ointment.
>Funny...
>I spent all day yesterday listening to KMOX.
Egad.
> I heard ads for mortgage
>brokers, gutter covers, cars, jewelry stores, clothiers, tree services
>and a whole bunch more. I did not, however, hear one ad for Kutis,
>Delmar Gardens or Blue Star Ointment. I have in the past (the rather
>distant past for Blue Star), but not yesterday (and, one of the
>reasons I picked yesterday was because there was no Cards game).
>The ads seemed solidly aimed at young to middle-aged, middle-class St
>Louis adults with children - you know, 24-54. Even the Delmar Gardens
>ads I can recall involve you deciding on which nursing home is right
>*for your aged parent*.
I heard one for Kutis Funeral Home during the pre-game show to Tuesday
night's game. It was by Carole Buck, Jack's widow. The gist of it
was that you should spend your funeral money locally, rather than
paying some out-of-town conglomerate. She said that you could pass
the savings down to your children.
--
Lance
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
-- Connie Mack
jt august
"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I'm having trouble buying into this as well. As I posted, KMOX leads
> KTRS by over 2.5 to 1 in overall ratings - in the winter when the
> Cardinals are out of the equation. I don't see how you can lose 25-54
> as badly as this guy implies and still beat KTRS by over 2.5 to 1. It
> seems to me that every 12-24 and 55-over person in the metro area
> would have to listening in order for that to occur.
There are so flipping many old fogeys that skew the overalls, but
advertisers don't give a rats afterquarters about the overalls, and
never have. That is why the overalls are freely distributable and
openly publishable.
As to the comment earlier I made about KMOX offering less money, that
element has been widely published. A gentleman from CBS was being
interviewed live on one of the TV stations, and said something to the
effect that the Cardinals are blowing it by going with the package that
gives them less money, and that quote was requoted numerous times
followed by people saying "Huh?" I heard the quote on KTRS, KIHT, KLOU
(during Rams pregame), and KSKD (Sunday night sports program).
As to the demographics breakdown, I have the privilege of knowing
someone with the numbers who could show me this. I cannot give details,
but I can speak about summations without getting anyone in trouble.
These books give all kinds of breakdowns; age, ex, race, work, home,
car, hour by hour, dayparts, host summaries, etc. Advertisers and radio
stations use these numbers to determine which stations are best suited
to which products, and bigger numbers allow higher ad revenues.
KMOX has seen audience fall off in recent years, even with Cards games.
Likely this is due to greater numbers of people watching games and
listening to the games on TV. Before Jack Buck died, many would turn
down the volume and listen to KMOX. Shannon and the rotation of color
commentators has not held the audience. KMOX has resultantly seen ad
revenues fall, and cannot afford to give the Cards as much money per
year as they have. The Cards, in turn researched other options and have
made their choice to switch stations.
This has happened in a couple other markets, and long time fans have
been just as dismayed. But teams play on, and fans adjust. That will
happen here.
It should be noted that fans here were just as upset when the Cards
moved TV rights from KSD TV to KPLR, and many were more upset when the
Cards went to the Cards Cable Network (even though that was only home
games), and more recently when many games ended up on Fox Midwest. But
fans have survived, and the Cards have among the loyalist of fans in the
Stadium (3.5 million per year), on radio and TV combined.
The stadium is being changed, the radio rights are changing, and the TV
rights are spilt between 3 outlets predominantly (one of whom can change
a game time and TV outlet on as little as four days notice). But in the
finally tally, the Cars will still remain a team with powerfully loyal
fans. Some will quit (and half of them are probably posters in this
thread), but not many.
jt
jt august
Judge Phelps <JDF...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > But I later learned that in order to protect their gigantic regional
> > coverage areas the FCC forced many
> >local stations to undesirable frequencies, bizarre antenna patterns, and
> >anemic power levels.
>
> Just what are some of the undesirable frequencies?
I cannot give numbers, and honestly, those frequencies in question
differ from area to area. But factors of local geography, immediate
frequency neighbors, power grid interference and localized industrial
base factor in extensively on AM transmissions. There are stations with
frequencies that have diminished broadcast range and potential audiences
because they have no option on their frequencies.
jt
jt august
Lance Freezeland <freezeland...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> Frank's 55. His website says that he was born December 14, 1949.
>
> http://www.frankopinion.com/
>
> That's him, the bald guy on the left in the picture on the front page.
I have heard that he is not being entirely honest on his own website.
Wow, someone lying on the web. Who'da thunk.
Really, I have heard that he is in his 60's, but I cannot generate any
proof to back this.
jt
Lance Freezeland
us:
>> I'm having trouble buying into this as well. As I posted, KMOX leads
>> KTRS by over 2.5 to 1 in overall ratings - in the winter when the
>> Cardinals are out of the equation. I don't see how you can lose 25-54
>> as badly as this guy implies and still beat KTRS by over 2.5 to 1. It
>> seems to me that every 12-24 and 55-over person in the metro area
>> would have to listening in order for that to occur.
>There are so flipping many old fogeys that skew the overalls, but
>advertisers don't give a rats afterquarters about the overalls, and
>never have. That is why the overalls are freely distributable and
>openly publishable.
>As to the comment earlier I made about KMOX offering less money, that
>element has been widely published. A gentleman from CBS was being
>interviewed live on one of the TV stations, and said something to the
>effect that the Cardinals are blowing it by going with the package that
>gives them less money, and that quote was requoted numerous times
>followed by people saying "Huh?" I heard the quote on KTRS, KIHT, KLOU
>(during Rams pregame), and KSKD (Sunday night sports program).
>As to the demographics breakdown, I have the privilege of knowing
>someone with the numbers who could show me this. I cannot give details,
>but I can speak about summations without getting anyone in trouble.
Inside secret information usually tends to be somebody just talking
out of his ass, especially when the information tends to be
counterintuitive as it is here.
--
Lance
"I believe in the Church of Baseball" Annie Savoy
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Kevin Childers
news:starsabre-6F18C...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Just to add a little on the methodology. Back in the '70s I worked for
Reuben Donnelly and they did national surveys on radio listeners. We were
the folks who were out ringing door bells between 6 & 9 PM Monday through
Saturdays and asking a dozen questions or so about when and what people
listened to. We would have a list of two or three streets in an area, or a
small town and would be tasked with getting ten (10) interviews per area
(town). We only covered the St. Louis area. I think Pevely was as far out
as we ever went. Those ten interviews then represented the radio listening
habit of that area and for the regional demographics that the aggregate of
those individuals fell into for the region. I presume they have something
similar going on these days. Paid $6.00 an hour which was good for a
teenager back then.
So if some one knocks at your door in the evening and wants to ask you a
few questions you might want to take a moments to get your two cents worth
in.
KC
jt august
"Kevin Childers" <wildth...@charter.net> wrote:
> Just to add a little on the methodology. Back in the '70s I worked for
> Reuben Donnelly and they did national surveys on radio listeners. We were
> the folks who were out ringing door bells between 6 & 9 PM Monday through
> Saturdays and asking a dozen questions or so about when and what people
> listened to. We would have a list of two or three streets in an area, or a
> small town and would be tasked with getting ten (10) interviews per area
> (town). We only covered the St. Louis area. I think Pevely was as far out
> as we ever went. Those ten interviews then represented the radio listening
> habit of that area and for the regional demographics that the aggregate of
> those individuals fell into for the region. I presume they have something
> similar going on these days. Paid $6.00 an hour which was good for a
> teenager back then.
>
> So if some one knocks at your door in the evening and wants to ask you a
> few questions you might want to take a moments to get your two cents worth
> in.
Well, first off, Donnelly fell to the way side back in the late 80's or
early 90's. Bartch fell about the the same time. Arbitron, once the
king pin of radio ratings, was the last of the firms to go under. These
days, it's Nielson. Most of their research is by diary logging, but
supplemented with random phone surveys, so if you get a phone call, then
you have your chance. Be warned, though, that today's phone screeners
have been trained to weed out vendetta types, so if someone answers all
questions with an angry tone towards or against a specific topic or
station, those responses may get cast aside. Handled right, you can
successfully express your opinion in the direction you desire.
jt
jt august
Lance Freezeland <freezeland...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> >As to the demographics breakdown, I have the privilege of knowing
> >someone with the numbers who could show me this. I cannot give details,
> >but I can speak about summations without getting anyone in trouble.
>
> Inside secret information usually tends to be somebody just talking
> out of his ass, especially when the information tends to be
> counterintuitive as it is here.
And when it comes do to it, it's all about money, and so much of it
seems counter intuitive as it is, which is what lead to this thread in
the first place. There are so many who felt the Card's move didn't make
sense. Radio ratings don't make sense, and how advertisers pick their
target audiences can baffle even the most expert of sales reps.
Have you ever seen a ratings book? It isn't a simple list as is posted
on a previously sited web page. It is a thick volume with all kinds of
breakdowns, full of numbers that could confuse even the mighty Deep
Thought (the second greatest computer in all of existence). And without
being able to show you all the specific numbers, there is no way I could
convince you of any validity of my arguments, but then again, even if I
did show you the numbers, you likely still wouldn't believe me, since
the numbers are not only confusing but don't necessarily support anyone
clearly.
But at this point, it doesn't matter since neither of us are in any
position to change anything about the Cards / KTRS / KMOX relationships,
and my convincing you I'm right nor your convincing me that you're right
would have any relevant effect on these events.
I'll break off with this parting blow - er - thought: I'll be listening
to KTRS next spring and summer. Will you?
jt
David Loewe, Jr.
>In article <u54kg15vr8didr2vc...@4ax.com>,
> Lance Freezeland <freezeland...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>
>> >As to the demographics breakdown, I have the privilege of knowing
>> >someone with the numbers who could show me this. I cannot give details,
>> >but I can speak about summations without getting anyone in trouble.
>>
>> Inside secret information usually tends to be somebody just talking
>> out of his ass, especially when the information tends to be
>> counterintuitive as it is here.
>
>And when it comes do to it, it's all about money, and so much of it
>seems counter intuitive as it is, which is what lead to this thread in
>the first place. There are so many who felt the Card's move didn't make
>sense. Radio ratings don't make sense, and how advertisers pick their
>target audiences can baffle even the most expert of sales reps.
Which must be why I keep hearing ads for wedding rings on KMOX -
despite your claim that no one in that demographic listens to KMOX.
>
>Have you ever seen a ratings book? It isn't a simple list as is posted
>on a previously sited web page. It is a thick volume with all kinds of
>breakdowns, full of numbers that could confuse even the mighty Deep
>Thought (the second greatest computer in all of existence). And without
>being able to show you all the specific numbers, there is no way I could
>convince you of any validity of my arguments, but then again, even if I
>did show you the numbers, you likely still wouldn't believe me, since
>the numbers are not only confusing
It's never a good thing to put down the intelligence of your fellow
interlocutors, but I digress...
>but don't necessarily support anyone clearly.
Heh...
I talked to someone in the know last night. That person indicated
that your claims were exaggerated at best.
Are you, by any chance, a KTRS investor?
>
>But at this point, it doesn't matter since neither of us are in any
>position to change anything about the Cards / KTRS / KMOX relationships,
>and my convincing you I'm right nor your convincing me that you're right
>would have any relevant effect on these events.
>
>I'll break off with this parting blow - er - thought: I'll be listening
>to KTRS next spring and summer. Will you?
Since Lance lives in Greater Effingham, no, he won't be listening to
KTRS much.
As for me, I'll listen the Cardinals. That does not mean I'll be
listening to any other KTRS broadcasts.
--
"Never appeal to a man's "better nature". He may not
have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more
leverage."
-Lazarus Long
Kevin Childers
opinion can carry a great deal of weight.
KC
"jt august" <star...@att.net> wrote in message
news:starsabre-D560D...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
jt august
"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Are you, by any chance, a KTRS investor?
> >
Not only am I not an investor in that or any radio station, I am not
particularly a fan of KTRS. To be honest, I don't have any vested or
particular interest in how KTRS does with or without the Cards. I do,
however, find great amusement in all the ultimately petty bickering and
whining that has come about both on the air, in print and on the net
about this whole situation.
jt
Atlanta Cardfan
Well, it's obviously a certainty that Lance won't and I won't, because
we're well out of K-Trash's abysmal range. I'm certain that Lance's
tone came from the high handedness that you've treated this topic with.
Using the format trends report that I have pulled down from
out-of-business Arbitron, I see that All Sports mediums generally make
up 20% of the market share that News/Talk does. That is approximately
what is going down in Atlanta, which is the number 10 market in
comparison with St. Louis, which is the #20 market.
http://wargod.arbitron.com/scripts/ndb/fmttrends2.asp
I can only surmise that KTRS, even though they are probably the monster
of Sports Talk in St. Louis, is woefully short of KMOX, which will most
certainly miss the Cardinals, but will make at least as much off of the
ad rights to a conservative talk host who would LOVE to bloviate over
the majority of the 48 states without listeners having to pay a $120/yr
surcharge to listen to them.
It seems lost on people in the St. Louis area that the KMOX signal comes
in stronger in medium size cities 4-5 states away than the local
stations for those same cities. This is not lost on the other clear
channel AM stations that have recently been abandoned by sports franchises.
Paul
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>Well, it's obviously a certainty that Lance won't and I won't, because
>we're well out of K-Trash's abysmal range. I'm certain that Lance's
>tone came from the high handedness that you've treated this topic with.
>
>Using the format trends report that I have pulled down from
>out-of-business Arbitron, I see that All Sports mediums generally make
>up 20% of the market share that News/Talk does. That is approximately
>what is going down in Atlanta, which is the number 10 market in
>comparison with St. Louis, which is the #20 market.
>
>http://wargod.arbitron.com/scripts/ndb/fmttrends2.asp
>
>I can only surmise that KTRS, even though they are probably the monster
>of Sports Talk in St. Louis, is woefully short of KMOX, which will most
>certainly miss the Cardinals, but will make at least as much off of the
>ad rights to a conservative talk host who would LOVE to bloviate over
>the majority of the 48 states without listeners having to pay a $120/yr
>surcharge to listen to them.
Ummmm...
BOTH KTRS and KMOX are "News/Talk" stations.
>
>It seems lost on people in the St. Louis area that the KMOX signal comes
>in stronger in medium size cities 4-5 states away than the local
>stations for those same cities. This is not lost on the other clear
>channel AM stations that have recently been abandoned by sports franchises.
--
"Tax the rich, feed the poor
till there are no rich no more."
Alvin Lee
Lance Freezeland
<dlo...@mindspring.com> gave us:
>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 07:14:36 GMT, jt august <star...@att.net> wrote:
>>In article <u54kg15vr8didr2vc...@4ax.com>,
>> Lance Freezeland <freezeland...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>>> >As to the demographics breakdown, I have the privilege of knowing
>>> >someone with the numbers who could show me this. I cannot give details,
>>> >but I can speak about summations without getting anyone in trouble.
>>> Inside secret information usually tends to be somebody just talking
>>> out of his ass, especially when the information tends to be
>>> counterintuitive as it is here.
>>And when it comes do to it, it's all about money, and so much of it
>>seems counter intuitive as it is, which is what lead to this thread in
>>the first place. There are so many who felt the Card's move didn't make
>>sense. Radio ratings don't make sense, and how advertisers pick their
>>target audiences can baffle even the most expert of sales reps.
[Piggybacking here because my server didn't pick up jt's post.]
No, the move made perfect sense. The Cardinals view their long
distance listeners, like Paul in Atlanta, as few and far between, and
therefore expendable. They view the people who still listen to most
of the games on the radio as little old blue haired women, and they do
not see the next generation of fans, hundreds of miles from St. Louis,
as being recruitable by the signal of KMOX. Therefore, it makes
perfect sense to go with the highest revenue stream possible, and use
the station as a vehicle to promote the team locally.
>Which must be why I keep hearing ads for wedding rings on KMOX -
>despite your claim that no one in that demographic listens to KMOX.
>>Have you ever seen a ratings book? It isn't a simple list as is posted
>>on a previously sited web page. It is a thick volume with all kinds of
>>breakdowns, full of numbers that could confuse even the mighty Deep
>>Thought (the second greatest computer in all of existence). And without
>>being able to show you all the specific numbers, there is no way I could
>>convince you of any validity of my arguments, but then again, even if I
>>did show you the numbers, you likely still wouldn't believe me, since
>>the numbers are not only confusing
No, it's real simple. If, as you claim, the Rush Limbaugh show is
coming in 13th among listeners between the ages of 25 and 54, then you
should be able to produce the data to support such a claim. It
shouldn't be all that complicated whatsoever. Until then, I will
continue to call bullshit by its proper name.
>It's never a good thing to put down the intelligence of your fellow
>interlocutors, but I digress...
>>but don't necessarily support anyone clearly.
>Heh...
>I talked to someone in the know last night. That person indicated
>that your claims were exaggerated at best.
>Are you, by any chance, a KTRS investor?
>>But at this point, it doesn't matter since neither of us are in any
>>position to change anything about the Cards / KTRS / KMOX relationships,
>>and my convincing you I'm right nor your convincing me that you're right
>>would have any relevant effect on these events.
>>I'll break off with this parting blow - er - thought: I'll be listening
>>to KTRS next spring and summer. Will you?
>Since Lance lives in Greater Effingham, no, he won't be listening to
>KTRS much.
>As for me, I'll listen the Cardinals. That does not mean I'll be
>listening to any other KTRS broadcasts.
Actually, I've been listening to Frank O. Pinion's show on KTRS in the
afternoons for several years now. The signal comes in loud and clear
during the day. For the Cardinals' night games, though, I'll have to
resort to one of my local stations -- either WSEI (92.9 Olney), WBQQ
(98.9 Shelbyville) or 104.7, a local transmitter of 98.9. Of course,
I'll be watching most night games on Fox Sports Midwest anyhow, but
when I do need a radio signal, that's where I'll have to turn.
David Loewe, Jr.
<freezeland...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:44:49 -0500, "David Loewe, Jr."
><dlo...@mindspring.com> gave us:
>>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 07:14:36 GMT, jt august <star...@att.net> wrote:
>>>Have you ever seen a ratings book? It isn't a simple list as is posted
>>>on a previously sited web page. It is a thick volume with all kinds of
>>>breakdowns, full of numbers that could confuse even the mighty Deep
>>>Thought (the second greatest computer in all of existence). And without
>>>being able to show you all the specific numbers, there is no way I could
>>>convince you of any validity of my arguments, but then again, even if I
>>>did show you the numbers, you likely still wouldn't believe me, since
>>>the numbers are not only confusing
>
>No, it's real simple. If, as you claim, the Rush Limbaugh show is
>coming in 13th among listeners between the ages of 25 and 54, then you
>should be able to produce the data to support such a claim. It
>shouldn't be all that complicated whatsoever. Until then, I will
>continue to call bullshit by its proper name.
>
>>It's never a good thing to put down the intelligence of your fellow
>>interlocutors, but I digress...
>
>>>but don't necessarily support anyone clearly.
>
>>Heh...
>
>>I talked to someone in the know last night. That person indicated
>>that your claims were exaggerated at best.
The person I talked to Saturday indicated that Limbaugh came in like
#2 or #3 in the 25-54 demographic...
>
>>Are you, by any chance, a KTRS investor?
--
"Will you come quietly, or must I use earplugs?"
- Russ Cage
Ned Flanders
wrote:
>"Will you come quietly, or must I use earplugs?"
> - Russ Cage
Who is/was Russ Cage?
David Loewe, Jr.
I don't know. That .sig came from a quotes page. My guess, however,
would be someone at CMU in the late 80s/early 90s. Alternatively,
someone from the early days of Usenet.
--
"Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of."
- David Moser
David Loewe, Jr.
>In article <3lvsf1dvaf8ccdhqb...@4ax.com>,
> "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> >Their lame "morning show" gets better ratings than KMOX's Total
>> >Information PM. The MOX's falling ratings were a important factor in
>> >the decision. Not the top factor or the most important, but it did
>> >figure in. KTRS beats KMOX in all dayparts except John Carney's late
>> >night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games.
>>
>> This *has* to be utter bullshit.
>>
>> KMOX had a 8.5 in Winter 2005 while KTRS had a 3.2.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ao367
>>
>> I don't see *any* way for KTRS to be beating KMOX "in all dayparts
>> except John Carney's late night, EXCEPT during Cards ball games." and
>> still lose the Winter ratings - when there are no Cards ball games -
>> by an over two to one margin.
>
>OK, note that the list you sited was on the !@+ overalls, which means
>every pair of ears 12 years of age and older.
No shit...
You said KTRS was beating KMOX. You neglected to inform us that it
was only in some specific demographic.
>This includes 12-15 year
>olds, 75-100 Year olds (the KMOX set), male, female and other. My info
>is admittedly a breakdown of the 25-54 male/female joint demographic.
Gee... guess where *this* listener to KMOX falls in the demographic
spectrum?
>This info came from a buddy who works in an ad placement agency in the
>area, and I cannot identify the person or the agency because the info is
>proprietary, and it could impact this person's company's access to these
>numbers if they are identified as a source of public distribution.
>
>That having been said, I would point out that the OVERWHELMING majority
>of advertising is not geared towards everyone who listens to the radio,
>and advertisers want to advertise to relevant demographics. To that
>end, 25-54 is the most important age bracket, and on a gender breakdown,
>women are more important than men. In this prime listening audience,
>KMOX is hurting like you wouldn't believe. KMOX is strong in males 45
>and up, and fairly strong with women in the same age bracket. Audience
>shares drop of unfathomably as you trickle down that various age break
>points; 36-44, 25-25, 18-24, 12-17.
>
>Listen to the ads KMOX sells and you can get a feel for who is
>listening; Kutis Funeral Home,
I have been to the funeral of a 21 year old co-worker.
>Delmar Gardens,
LOL
The nursing home ads talk about putting your *mom or dad* in the home.
How is this not relevant to 36-54 year olds?
>Blue Star Ointment.
I listen to KMOX all day long and I *rarely* hear ads for Blue Star
Ointment. Fast Eddie's Bon-Air advertises on KMOX more than Blue Star
by my observation.
I also note that you don't mention the Number One category of ad on
KMOX (derived from an unscientific straight up listen to the station)
- mortgage refi ads. No clog gutters and gutter covers are pretty
big, too - along with casinos.
--
"Getting a SCSI chain working is perfectly simple if you remember that there
must be exactly three terminations: one on one end of the cable, one on the
far end, and the goat, terminated over the SCSI chain with a silver-handled
knife whilst burning *black* candles." -- Anthony DeBoer
BOBOBOnoBO®
Commercial radio survives because it's listeners are sheeplike enough
to be influenced by the crappy commercials to buy the products being
hyped.
Public radio is so good that they can just ask listeners to give them
money, without coercion, because what it offers is so high quality that
people want to support it.
While I have to admit that I do occasionally listen to the oldies on
KLOU, mostly at the urging of my 4 year old, other than for Rams or
Cards games, the about only radio I turn on is 90.7FM, KWMU*. Try it
for a couple of weeks. KMOX will be shown for the garbage it truly is.
* The two exceptions are KDHX (also commercial-free), and KFUO (the
classical station).
Speaking of classical, the SLSO is performing Beethoven's 5th tomorrow.
Fucking awesome.
--Bryan
Kevin Childers
> "Getting a SCSI chain working is perfectly simple if you remember that
> there
> must be exactly three terminations: one on one end of the cable, one on
> the
> far end, and the goat, terminated over the SCSI chain with a
> silver-handled
> knife whilst burning *black* candles." -- Anthony DeBoer
Another BSOFH
MarkofTroy
Fox's physical appearance, mocking his bout with Parkinson's.