How much light do Hoyas really need?
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got2...@live.com
Jul 11, 2008, 6:58:01 PM7/11/08
to Stemma
In the "enough is enough" thread, Jen, you mentioned that you felt
that your house does not have ideal light conditions, and even with
the addition of artificial lighting, your hoyas are not performing to
their best potential. I know that you have in the past put your
plants outside in the spring and summer months, are you comparing the
growth rates of the indoor periods, with the outdoor ones? I am
wondering if they are comparable, since hoyas grow more in spring and
summer regardless, and tend to slow in fall and winter when you would
logically bring them inside due to cooler temps? I don't think that
any plant grown inside would do as well as those grown outside, even
if the indoor ones were in full and direct sun, and the outdoor ones
in heavy shade. I admit though, I am theorizing, as I have never
grown my hoyas outside, though am tempted to every year. I would love
for you to help me explore this concept further, as I have recently
thought a lot about hoyas and their lighting needs.
Daivd, you recently moved some of your hoyas from your greenhouse to
the outside, are you seeing a difference? I ask because I have always
considered a greenhouse to be so much more ideal than how I am growing
mine, which is simply as houseplants.
This is a topic that I have thought about a lot recently, and Ann and
I even discussed at length prior to her moving into a new apartment.
I spent a long time stressing and worrying about whether my plants
would get enough light upon getting a new plant, and placing it in
it's "life spot" (I am a bit of a "life spot" and "life pot" grower.
I very seldom move my plants, and often will plant a cutting in a pot
as large as 18 inches knowing that is the pot that I want it to stay
in, and re potting plants with stiff stems and huge leaves can
frequently be disastrous for me).
For years, I would maneuver and move, and sweat, and stress about
whether a beloved new hoya would be getting ideal light where I was
putting it. As my collection grew, I was forced to put new hoyas on
the periphery of the light sources, and as it grew even more, I would
move them, and hang them further and further away, until they
eventually were in corners. This stressed me out for a while, until
they proceeded to bloom in their non-lighted corners, against dark
painted walls, or solid brick fireplaces. Aha! I had to ask myself,
is the high light requirement, really a requirement at all?
In my most recent David Liddle order I received a cutting of Hoya
rigida "red leaf form". I put it on my glass shelves in direct west
sun exposure. I thought it would do great with the high light, and
the heat from the late afternoon sun. It was on a shelf with about 15
other plants, as well as shelves above and below all containing 15-20
plants each. Non have ever had a problem in that location. I
realized that this hoya however was getting severely sunburned, and
was actually withering. Yikes. I moved it to a rather dark location,
placed in amongst several other plants, and it has proceeded to return
to a nice rich green color, send new vine growth from every node, and
is growing like wild fire. Just as fast as the hoyas that are in the
extremely high light areas (west and south exposures).
I would love to hear other theories about light needs. I am finding
the opposite of my original assumptions to be proven true, and am
wondering......
Thanx,
Sara
that your house does not have ideal light conditions, and even with
the addition of artificial lighting, your hoyas are not performing to
their best potential. I know that you have in the past put your
plants outside in the spring and summer months, are you comparing the
growth rates of the indoor periods, with the outdoor ones? I am
wondering if they are comparable, since hoyas grow more in spring and
summer regardless, and tend to slow in fall and winter when you would
logically bring them inside due to cooler temps? I don't think that
any plant grown inside would do as well as those grown outside, even
if the indoor ones were in full and direct sun, and the outdoor ones
in heavy shade. I admit though, I am theorizing, as I have never
grown my hoyas outside, though am tempted to every year. I would love
for you to help me explore this concept further, as I have recently
thought a lot about hoyas and their lighting needs.
Daivd, you recently moved some of your hoyas from your greenhouse to
the outside, are you seeing a difference? I ask because I have always
considered a greenhouse to be so much more ideal than how I am growing
mine, which is simply as houseplants.
This is a topic that I have thought about a lot recently, and Ann and
I even discussed at length prior to her moving into a new apartment.
I spent a long time stressing and worrying about whether my plants
would get enough light upon getting a new plant, and placing it in
it's "life spot" (I am a bit of a "life spot" and "life pot" grower.
I very seldom move my plants, and often will plant a cutting in a pot
as large as 18 inches knowing that is the pot that I want it to stay
in, and re potting plants with stiff stems and huge leaves can
frequently be disastrous for me).
For years, I would maneuver and move, and sweat, and stress about
whether a beloved new hoya would be getting ideal light where I was
putting it. As my collection grew, I was forced to put new hoyas on
the periphery of the light sources, and as it grew even more, I would
move them, and hang them further and further away, until they
eventually were in corners. This stressed me out for a while, until
they proceeded to bloom in their non-lighted corners, against dark
painted walls, or solid brick fireplaces. Aha! I had to ask myself,
is the high light requirement, really a requirement at all?
In my most recent David Liddle order I received a cutting of Hoya
rigida "red leaf form". I put it on my glass shelves in direct west
sun exposure. I thought it would do great with the high light, and
the heat from the late afternoon sun. It was on a shelf with about 15
other plants, as well as shelves above and below all containing 15-20
plants each. Non have ever had a problem in that location. I
realized that this hoya however was getting severely sunburned, and
was actually withering. Yikes. I moved it to a rather dark location,
placed in amongst several other plants, and it has proceeded to return
to a nice rich green color, send new vine growth from every node, and
is growing like wild fire. Just as fast as the hoyas that are in the
extremely high light areas (west and south exposures).
I would love to hear other theories about light needs. I am finding
the opposite of my original assumptions to be proven true, and am
wondering......
Thanx,
Sara
jen
Jul 11, 2008, 9:42:40 PM7/11/08
to Stemma
No, not really comparing the growth rate periods...I do have one
location in my home that is lit by skylights, and the plants I put
there do well year round. They get more growth in the spring months,
but do not stop growing entirely like they do in the rest of the
houses darker spots. And I am not just talking about flowering, I
mean foliage growth as well.
I think that when they are outdoors, they also benefit from our
legendary northeast humidity. Believe me when I tell you that being
in a greenhouse is sometimes cooler than the average summer day in my
area, especially in late summer, and this year it has been ALL THE
TIME so far. But, it has to be more the light than anything else that
jumpstarts my plants.
Sara, in your situation, are your plants growing year round or do you
just get the major growth in the spring/summer months? Maybe due to
their size, i am picturing your monsters just going crazy all year and
if so, I am not being realistic...the grass is always greener,
right?
I have lived in very bright homes and my plants did much better, it's
a fact....but with hoyas, we have all heard that they do not grow in
the bright light in their native habitats, and in fact alot grow in
what could be called deep shade. The ones in too-bright light aren't
even all that attractive, all yellow and bleached out and scorched
looking. So it makes sense that your plants would bloom in the darker
corners of your home....but why are mine not doing well in the same
conditions? Or am I expecting too much of them in the off
season....have I never really given them a chance to prove themselves
"in the dark" during the growing season? I am so tired after the
dreariness of winter that I throw them all outdoors as early as I can.
It is an interesting subject, and one I think on alot while trying to
grow these plants in low light conditions. Considering they thrive in
low light in the wild, it doesn't make full sense to me....but you
have to figure that in the wild all of their other needs are being met
100% - and in our homes the entire environment has to be faked by
us...with light being the easiest thing to make available (unless you
live in my house!)
One thing that I think could be important is moving plants around, or
not moving them. I move my plants ALOT, trying to give them all their
moment in the bright spots, and I wonder sometimes if that is not
doing them any good - and Sara doesn't do that...I wonder if that
could have anything to do with how well the plants do? They also
don't get moved around in the wild, so could be they prefer to stay in
one spot -
location in my home that is lit by skylights, and the plants I put
there do well year round. They get more growth in the spring months,
but do not stop growing entirely like they do in the rest of the
houses darker spots. And I am not just talking about flowering, I
mean foliage growth as well.
I think that when they are outdoors, they also benefit from our
legendary northeast humidity. Believe me when I tell you that being
in a greenhouse is sometimes cooler than the average summer day in my
area, especially in late summer, and this year it has been ALL THE
TIME so far. But, it has to be more the light than anything else that
jumpstarts my plants.
Sara, in your situation, are your plants growing year round or do you
just get the major growth in the spring/summer months? Maybe due to
their size, i am picturing your monsters just going crazy all year and
if so, I am not being realistic...the grass is always greener,
right?
I have lived in very bright homes and my plants did much better, it's
a fact....but with hoyas, we have all heard that they do not grow in
the bright light in their native habitats, and in fact alot grow in
what could be called deep shade. The ones in too-bright light aren't
even all that attractive, all yellow and bleached out and scorched
looking. So it makes sense that your plants would bloom in the darker
corners of your home....but why are mine not doing well in the same
conditions? Or am I expecting too much of them in the off
season....have I never really given them a chance to prove themselves
"in the dark" during the growing season? I am so tired after the
dreariness of winter that I throw them all outdoors as early as I can.
It is an interesting subject, and one I think on alot while trying to
grow these plants in low light conditions. Considering they thrive in
low light in the wild, it doesn't make full sense to me....but you
have to figure that in the wild all of their other needs are being met
100% - and in our homes the entire environment has to be faked by
us...with light being the easiest thing to make available (unless you
live in my house!)
One thing that I think could be important is moving plants around, or
not moving them. I move my plants ALOT, trying to give them all their
moment in the bright spots, and I wonder sometimes if that is not
doing them any good - and Sara doesn't do that...I wonder if that
could have anything to do with how well the plants do? They also
don't get moved around in the wild, so could be they prefer to stay in
one spot -
got2...@live.com
Jul 11, 2008, 9:56:05 PM7/11/08
to Stemma
Excellent point Jen!! I don't move my plants around much at all!! I
think that the last time I moved my plants was when we painted our
house (indoors) 3 years ago. Basically they get shifted down one way
to dust, then get shifted back. Every 3 months or so, I try to turn
them so that they grow evenly, but essentially they are in their
assigned spots to stay. I do have hoyas that are literally growing in
a corner with NO light source that are blooming regularly. I wouldn't
say they are all huge, but that could almost be considered a survival
thing too, I don't have abundant amounts of room either.
I kind of think of it like aquarium fish - they actually excrete a
growth inhibitor so that they can all survive in the tank size that
they are in, and not outgrow it and eventually all die. Sort of
nature's way of maintaining the "status quo" if you will.
I wonder, Jen, if all of your hoyas don't react a bit the way
eriostemmas are said to, and pout about the extremes of coming inside
after being out? David said that his outdoor hoyas are doing a lot
more than his greenhouse hoyas are.
Mine don't get any change really at all. I certainly don't get gobs
of growth in the winter. Some plants will give me 2 leaves in 6
months from October to April. My Lambii didn't put on one single leaf
all winter long, and is just now forming new leaves. Certainly isn't
growing the way David's does. Kerrii is the same way. Sort of plods
along all fall and winter, growing, but minimally, until the overdrive
kicks in come spring. Others, like cinnamomifolia just don't slow
down at all.
Definitely something to think on...
S
jen
Jul 12, 2008, 9:42:05 AM7/12/08
to Stemma
the pouting when they are moved inside - or maybe it is just shock at
the sudden change in light levels - is a very good point. I wonder
though how much of an effect moving them around too much has on them,
it has to do something.
I also think that when outdoors, they are getting more out of the
environment. Rainwater, for one, is better than tap water. And all
the fresh air.
Maybe in your situation, where you do not move your plants around,
where they have never had to go thru and recover from the indoors to
outdoors to back indoors shock, your plants have just settled in and
made the best of their environment. With the constant moving around
of my plants since I moved here, I have never been able to see if they
really would be happy if I left them alone.
the sudden change in light levels - is a very good point. I wonder
though how much of an effect moving them around too much has on them,
it has to do something.
I also think that when outdoors, they are getting more out of the
environment. Rainwater, for one, is better than tap water. And all
the fresh air.
Maybe in your situation, where you do not move your plants around,
where they have never had to go thru and recover from the indoors to
outdoors to back indoors shock, your plants have just settled in and
made the best of their environment. With the constant moving around
of my plants since I moved here, I have never been able to see if they
really would be happy if I left them alone.
Ann Strahm
Jul 12, 2008, 8:16:31 PM7/12/08
to ste...@googlegroups.com
Well, I must be honest ... it took Sara multiple conversations where she had to speak to me with that soft, I know you haven't taken your meds, kind of voice to get me to take the apartment I'm in now.
Seriously, the poor thing had to repeat herself over and over again because I just wasn't going to be convinced of north-facing windows.
However, when she finally pointed out that "north-facing windows in California are different than north-facing windows in Eugene, Oregon," I was brought out of my direct-sun stupor and thought "OK, I'll do it."
The fact that she has healthy and blooming Hoyas hanging on a wall 12-feet from a window suggests that there is a lot of mythology running rampant in the Hoya "community" about the kind of light necessary for Hoyas.
And ... Jen, you pointed this out too - you reminded us that Hoyas hang-out under tree canopies in the wild. And David's green house, if I am recalling correctly, is filled with bright light, but little direct sun.
The proof is in the pudding - two plants that have never bloomed have or are beginning to bloom in my north-facing windows - H. sp. Abas developed a peduncle, buds, and bloomed within the first month of moving in (by the way, I had it sitting near a south-facing window in Chowchilla, CA where it got wayyyyy too much sun); and the Hoya vitellinoides (aka meridithii) buds are almost at opening stage. All in my new north-facing apartment (three windows and a sliding glass door all face north).
I think there may be a misunderstanding about Hoyas by so-called experts. I suspect there is a spurious correlation going on - most people put their smaller Hoyas in high-light areas and when the plants mature and bloom, they attribute that to high-light, when it may be more a case of maturity. Thinking back on all of the plants that I have ever had in direct sun, they grew like mad but never bloomed until they were moved into bright spots with little direct sun.
This discussion reminds me of another myth that is endemic to the Hoya "community" - the necessity of being root/pot-bound before blooming. Again, as with the direct sun issue, I think it's still all about maturity of the plant. I think that David's plants are a testament to this. He'll get cuttings that within a few months are huge and blooming. I suspect it has very much to do with the fact that his greenhouse replicates the conditions found in the wild - bright light, high humidity, and lots of nutrition. This allows his plants to mature much faster than most of our window-sill captives.
OK, battery's going out on my computer ... gotta go.
Thanks for bringing up this discussion!!!
Ann
Seriously, the poor thing had to repeat herself over and over again because I just wasn't going to be convinced of north-facing windows.
However, when she finally pointed out that "north-facing windows in California are different than north-facing windows in Eugene, Oregon," I was brought out of my direct-sun stupor and thought "OK, I'll do it."
The fact that she has healthy and blooming Hoyas hanging on a wall 12-feet from a window suggests that there is a lot of mythology running rampant in the Hoya "community" about the kind of light necessary for Hoyas.
And ... Jen, you pointed this out too - you reminded us that Hoyas hang-out under tree canopies in the wild. And David's green house, if I am recalling correctly, is filled with bright light, but little direct sun.
The proof is in the pudding - two plants that have never bloomed have or are beginning to bloom in my north-facing windows - H. sp. Abas developed a peduncle, buds, and bloomed within the first month of moving in (by the way, I had it sitting near a south-facing window in Chowchilla, CA where it got wayyyyy too much sun); and the Hoya vitellinoides (aka meridithii) buds are almost at opening stage. All in my new north-facing apartment (three windows and a sliding glass door all face north).
I think there may be a misunderstanding about Hoyas by so-called experts. I suspect there is a spurious correlation going on - most people put their smaller Hoyas in high-light areas and when the plants mature and bloom, they attribute that to high-light, when it may be more a case of maturity. Thinking back on all of the plants that I have ever had in direct sun, they grew like mad but never bloomed until they were moved into bright spots with little direct sun.
This discussion reminds me of another myth that is endemic to the Hoya "community" - the necessity of being root/pot-bound before blooming. Again, as with the direct sun issue, I think it's still all about maturity of the plant. I think that David's plants are a testament to this. He'll get cuttings that within a few months are huge and blooming. I suspect it has very much to do with the fact that his greenhouse replicates the conditions found in the wild - bright light, high humidity, and lots of nutrition. This allows his plants to mature much faster than most of our window-sill captives.
OK, battery's going out on my computer ... gotta go.
Thanks for bringing up this discussion!!!
Ann
jen
Jul 14, 2008, 4:47:32 PM7/14/08
to Stemma
I have d cummingii that does not seem to do well in high light, I have
moved it in and out of bright areas a few times to test this theory
and the brighter light seems to have a negative effect. It isn't the
same as with some plants, where you can see the scorching from too
much sun, it just doesn't do well or bloom until I move it to a
shadier spot. I have also noticed that fungii grows well in lower
light.
Still, Ann is right, it is when all the conditions similar to the wild
are being met that most plants do best. I also think that while on
the subject of myths, some hoyas do much better with more water. I
tend to underwater, just to play it safe. I have a few that look bad
over the winter because I don't want to risk root rot. I don't leave
them dry for days, I wait for them to feel dry before watering
again. But now that they are outside and getting rained on for days
in a row, they look great - so obviously the extra rainwater isn't
hurting them, not at this time of year anyway.
moved it in and out of bright areas a few times to test this theory
and the brighter light seems to have a negative effect. It isn't the
same as with some plants, where you can see the scorching from too
much sun, it just doesn't do well or bloom until I move it to a
shadier spot. I have also noticed that fungii grows well in lower
light.
Still, Ann is right, it is when all the conditions similar to the wild
are being met that most plants do best. I also think that while on
the subject of myths, some hoyas do much better with more water. I
tend to underwater, just to play it safe. I have a few that look bad
over the winter because I don't want to risk root rot. I don't leave
them dry for days, I wait for them to feel dry before watering
again. But now that they are outside and getting rained on for days
in a row, they look great - so obviously the extra rainwater isn't
hurting them, not at this time of year anyway.
dmichael
Jul 17, 2008, 12:33:58 PM7/17/08
to Stemma
The first 2 years that i grew hoyas they all got moved outside during
the spring/summer months and back into the gh for the late fall/winter
months. Since purchasing the large gh they all stay inside year round.
The gh is located in a spot that gets full sun all day long. The only
shade is provided by a double layer of shade cloth (not sure of the
%age) but it still gets so bright that I almost feel the need for
sunshades while inside!!!! All of my hoyas are exposed to the same
amount of light regardless of what i've read about some of them
needing very low light/deep shade. I just can't provide those
conditions where i'm located.
For those plants,said to require low light/deep shade I try to place
them behind or under other plants when possible on the darker side of
the gh (which is still somewhat bright) and they do very well there.
It's been my experience not only with growing hoyas but plants in
general,they can and in most cases will/do adapt to their new growing
conditions and do quite well there.
This year I decided to bring a few of the hanging basket out of the gh
and see what they would do outside during the warmer months. All of my
hoyas grow like wildfire inside the gh putting on in many cases feet
of new growth but i've noticed the ones that I brought outside are
putting on an extreme amount of new growth. I'm not sure if it's due
to the light exposure which isn't really that much different outside
as to what they were being exposed to inside or if it's the open air
movement or a combination of both.
My gh sides roll up to about 6ft from the ground up and I keep 2
--24" and 1--32" high velocity fan (s) blowing in all directions 24/7
so there isn't any lack of air movement in side the gh. The humidity
is high inside as well as outside the gh so i'm not sure why the
outside plants are growing slightly faster and larger than the ones
inside since growing conditions are the same with the exception that
some are hanging outside and some inside the gh. My plans are to this
winter and early spring work on a slat house so I can move all of the
hoyas in hanging baskets outside for the spring/summer months.
david
the spring/summer months and back into the gh for the late fall/winter
months. Since purchasing the large gh they all stay inside year round.
The gh is located in a spot that gets full sun all day long. The only
shade is provided by a double layer of shade cloth (not sure of the
%age) but it still gets so bright that I almost feel the need for
sunshades while inside!!!! All of my hoyas are exposed to the same
amount of light regardless of what i've read about some of them
needing very low light/deep shade. I just can't provide those
conditions where i'm located.
For those plants,said to require low light/deep shade I try to place
them behind or under other plants when possible on the darker side of
the gh (which is still somewhat bright) and they do very well there.
It's been my experience not only with growing hoyas but plants in
general,they can and in most cases will/do adapt to their new growing
conditions and do quite well there.
This year I decided to bring a few of the hanging basket out of the gh
and see what they would do outside during the warmer months. All of my
hoyas grow like wildfire inside the gh putting on in many cases feet
of new growth but i've noticed the ones that I brought outside are
putting on an extreme amount of new growth. I'm not sure if it's due
to the light exposure which isn't really that much different outside
as to what they were being exposed to inside or if it's the open air
movement or a combination of both.
My gh sides roll up to about 6ft from the ground up and I keep 2
--24" and 1--32" high velocity fan (s) blowing in all directions 24/7
so there isn't any lack of air movement in side the gh. The humidity
is high inside as well as outside the gh so i'm not sure why the
outside plants are growing slightly faster and larger than the ones
inside since growing conditions are the same with the exception that
some are hanging outside and some inside the gh. My plans are to this
winter and early spring work on a slat house so I can move all of the
hoyas in hanging baskets outside for the spring/summer months.
david
jen
Jul 19, 2008, 9:43:54 AM7/19/08
to Stemma
David, it could be the fresh air that your outside plants are loving.
And of course, you are not far from the ocean, and air that contains
all the minerals etc that are evaporated from the ocean are good for
all living things. My hoyas never looked as good as they did than
when I lived on one of our barrier islands up here.
As for light, even the morning sun my plants were loving is getting to
be too much with consistant temps in the 90's and no clouds to give
even a short break from the rays. I have been seeing alot of scorched
leaves lately. I think it is the combination of the heat, and the
sun, and no breezes. I myself feel lousy, I came home from work
yesterday around 1pm and just slept the afternoon away. The heat
wears me out, and the older I get, the worse it gets.
And of course, you are not far from the ocean, and air that contains
all the minerals etc that are evaporated from the ocean are good for
all living things. My hoyas never looked as good as they did than
when I lived on one of our barrier islands up here.
As for light, even the morning sun my plants were loving is getting to
be too much with consistant temps in the 90's and no clouds to give
even a short break from the rays. I have been seeing alot of scorched
leaves lately. I think it is the combination of the heat, and the
sun, and no breezes. I myself feel lousy, I came home from work
yesterday around 1pm and just slept the afternoon away. The heat
wears me out, and the older I get, the worse it gets.
jen
Jul 23, 2008, 2:06:27 PM7/23/08
to Stemma
For those of you who have hoyas whose foliage turns red in alot of
sunlight, does the foliage go yellow before going red, or does it just
go red? I have a few in bright sun right now that are getting that
yellow color they get from too much sun, one being a pottsii type that
I have seen red-leafed photos of. Mine is getting yellow from the sun
- not that scorched white/yellow shade, just yellow - and I am curious
if it will change to red eventually. Waymanaie I noticed just goes
straight to red.
I am asking because I like the red, but if the plant is supposed to
just go from green to red, and mine are turning yellow, then I may be
doing more harm than good.
sunlight, does the foliage go yellow before going red, or does it just
go red? I have a few in bright sun right now that are getting that
yellow color they get from too much sun, one being a pottsii type that
I have seen red-leafed photos of. Mine is getting yellow from the sun
- not that scorched white/yellow shade, just yellow - and I am curious
if it will change to red eventually. Waymanaie I noticed just goes
straight to red.
I am asking because I like the red, but if the plant is supposed to
just go from green to red, and mine are turning yellow, then I may be
doing more harm than good.
hoyagal Growing
Jul 23, 2008, 3:40:31 PM7/23/08
to ste...@googlegroups.com
Jen, I think that I have had hoyas in too high light do both - yellow and red, as well as horrible white spots, and wrinkled leaves. If your leaves are still firm, I would guess that it is ok, probably just a bit ugly. I think that the red is far more attractive.
I have gotten several cuttings from David Liddle that were ugly, ugly yellow, but were so thick and healthy that they rooted really well. I would guess that maybe it is a pigment thing. I personally like the red better, and would guess that maybe they will go red if you move it into a lower but still bright location.
S
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