Important data for reference, revising Stellarium

[道非常]

I believe that the astronomical characteristics of this day are very important for the revision of the Stellarium.

Somewhere in North Africa, e.g. N 30° 0' 0.00", E 15° 41' 27.32", on 8 December 118258 BC, at 0:0:0, sunset, a total eclipse of the sun occurred, with a longitude of 60° on the Dabih Major, and a longitude of exactly 60°on Jupiter.

[Georg Zotti]

In which written document from 118000BC did you find this? 

For 118000BC, nobody can tell you where on the planet a Solar eclipse would have been observable. At least not with current knowledge. Not even for 10.000BC.

[道非常]

 https://core2.gsfc.nasa.gov/time/julian.html

This website provides inquiries about the Julian Day.

December 8, 118,258 BC is the "Jiazi Day", which must be the first day of November in the lunar calendar. At sunset on that day, it marks the beginning of the winter solstice.
Since the sun and moon have the same celestial longitude, the most likely scenario is that a total solar eclipse occurred, so that ancestors could see  Dabih Major   and Jupiter at the same position on the ecliptic at sunset.
The period of Jiazi, month and day of Jiazi in the year Jiazi has always been considered by ancient Chinese astronomers as the date of origin of the calendar.
Therefore, I believe that on December 8, 118258 BC, the sunset time was exactly 0:0:0.

[道非常]

I have done a lot of archaeological research using Stellarium, and these three papers are for your reference.

Decoding the Mystery of the Dendera Zodiac— the Shocking Secrets of Ancient Huaxia Astronomy and Calendar Hidden in the Dendera Zodiac
https://zenodo.org/records/7450166

Decoding the Astronomical Characteristics Depicted on the Narmer Palette, the Narmer Macehead and the Scorpion Macehead
https://zenodo.org/records/7450172

A Textual Research on the Relationship between Göbekli Tepe and Huaxia Civilization— Discussing the Origin of Huaxia Civilization, the Exact Dates of Major Historical Events, and the Relationship with Göbekli Tepe in Light of the Characteristics of Ancient Astronomy and Calendar Recorded in Chinese Historical
https://zenodo.org/records/7450145

在2024年1月24日星期三 UTC+8 02:14:18<Georg Zotti> 写道：

[道非常]

I'm sorry to bother you.
However, tracing the origins of civilization is a major event worth studying.
According to the backward calculation of the chronological stems and branches, this year must be the "Year of Guihai（癸亥）".
At the same time, the ecliptic longitude value of Dabih Major（牛宿一） must be 60°.
On the day of the winter solstice, the sun sets at zero o'clock, the sun's ecliptic longitude is 270°, and a total solar eclipse occurs.
At that time, Jupiter and Dabih Major had the same ecliptic longitude.
In this way, the ancestors could easily know that this was the first day of the eleventh lunar month, and also know how to use Dabih Major as the origin of the coordinates to design the coordinates of the twelve constellations of the zodiac.
I would be very grateful if you could tell me which year 100,000 years ago when the ecliptic longitude value of Dabih Major was 60°.

在2024年1月24日星期三 UTC+8 02:14:18<Georg Zotti> 写道：

[Aaron K]

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Sensitivity to initial conditions makes this essentially impossible.  You are not going to find any substantiation for your mythology here.

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[道非常]

Of course I know what I'm talking about, but obviously you don't. If you can't help, show some courtesy.

[Aaron K]

You are literally spouting nonsense.  Please take your pseudoscience somewhere else. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/stellarium/06c97248-146b-4145-883a-cf8703367b2cn%40googlegroups.com.

[道非常]

Not only are you ignorant, you are also uneducated. I'm not here to exchange insults with you, but are you sure you're not trying to smear the Stellarium team?

[kedar damle]

I think the OP should use an ephemeris program for calculating the required year, which can then be verified using Stellarium.

Stellarium being simulation program, calculation of year will be out of its scope.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/stellarium/384dfdb4-247d-45db-b963-6cc4425658b1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Georg Zotti]

The best publicly available ephemeris goes back to -13000. Accurate simulation before that is out of scope. The time range +/-100000 years is to view stellar proper motion, not planet positions (or even eclipses!). The world experts on eclipses and DeltaT do not go further back than about 720BC for accurate results. Extrapolating for a few centuries may be allowed, but not 100000 years.

User Guide, Appendix F, describes limitations. If you have a complete peer-reviewed model (ephemeris algorithm) that extends our range of dates, feel free to add it. But not a data point from an era beyond scope. In this case, just use different software.

[道非常]

I calculated the precession rate as accurately as possible and got the year 118258 BC, which was a "Guihai" year with "Jiazi month and Jiazi day".
The result of the recalculation is that the winter solstice was October 7 of that year. In any case, it seems that this year can be designated as "Jiazi year Jiazi month Jiazi day".
If this is true, then I am convinced that a total solar eclipse occurred at zero o'clock at sunset on the winter solstice.
At the same time, the celestial longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major is 60°.
The ancestors then used Dabih Major as the standard to delineate multiple ecliptic coordinates for astronomical observations. Civilization was born.
I think that after determining the date of the winter solstice, somebody may be able to make some revisions to the Stellarium using the celestial characteristics I inferred at the time of the winter solstice, so that it can simulate the celestial phenomena a hundred thousand years ago as accurately as possible.

[道非常]

Ancient Chinese documents record a great solar eclipse that occurred in the Xia Dynasty. This solar eclipse occurred in the "Fangsu" area of the ecliptic, causing panic in the capital of the Xia Dynasty. People used to not know where the capital of the Xia Dynasty was, nor did they know the age of the Xia Dynasty. I have done research and found that the capital of the early Xia Dynasty was Ur, and this solar eclipse occurred on October 19, 2267 BC.
I used Stellarium to make an accurate reconstruction of this solar eclipse. Believe me, stellarium is very powerful.

在2024年1月25日星期四 UTC+8 16:20:24<Georg Zotti> 写道：

[kedar damle]

You are taking only precession into account. But stars have a proper motion also. According to one source, the proper motion of Dabih is 0.042 arcsec per year in Right Ascension and 0.002 arcsec per year in Declination. Is it correct to consider that over a span of 100,000 years, there won't be any change in the proper motion? Without observational data how can we say that these values have remained the same over the years?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/stellarium/5951c8e6-9c04-4a26-a84a-4539c2aaf210n%40googlegroups.com.

[道非常]

[道非常]

I made an inference about the celestial phenomena that occurred at the winter solstice on October 7 or December 8, 118258 BC. You can certainly consider this inference as a hypothesis. But even a hypothesis can serve as the starting point for a new inference. If it can be verified by relevant facts, the hypothesis is of course valid. Interested experts may try to test it, assuming that these celestial phenomena are true, make some revisions to the software itself based on this assumption, and then use some important data from the past 20,000 years to test it. If it can be matched well, I think it will be a great success.

[道非常]

长话短说。
我知道牛宿一黄经60°非常重要，这相当于一个新纪元的开始。
特别重要的是，我知道牛宿一对于划分各种黄道天区来说，是一个坐标原点。
我认识到，当木星和牛宿一黄经值非常接近时，这是黄道天区坐标划分的最好时刻。
因此，我用stellarium检索了牛宿一黄经60°的平均岁差周期，木星黄经60°的平均周期，牛宿一和木星同时接近黄经60°的平均周期。

Long story short.
I know that the 60° ecliptic longitude of Dabih Major（牛宿一） is very important, and that it corresponds to the beginning of a new era.
Particularly important, I know that Dabih Major is a coordinate origin for the division of the various zodiacal sky zones.
I realised that when the value of the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major are very close to each other, this is the best moment for the division of the coordinates of the ecliptic sky zones.
Therefore, I used stellarium to retrieve the average age difference period of 60° of ecliptic longitude for Dabih Major, the average period of 60° of ecliptic longitude for Jupiter, and the average period when both Dabih Major and Jupiter are close to 60° of ecliptic longitude at the same time.

N 30° 0' 0.00"，W 12° 33' 0.00"，这是我所认为的Atlantis所在地。
我认为Atlantis是一个错误的译名，其本字本义是“天狼”，是古羌人的发源地。
公元前92525年6月24日，儒略日-32073158，牛宿一黄经60°。
牛宿一黄经60°的平均岁差周期是9389764.142857143。
因此，上一次牛宿一黄经60°是公元前118232年9月17日，儒略日-41462922。

N 30° 0' 0.00", W 12° 33' 0.00", this is where I think Atlantis is.
I think Atlantis is a wrong translation. Its original meaning is "Sirian Wolf"（天狼）, which is the birthplace of the ancient Qiang（羌） people.
June 24, 92525 B.C., Julian day -32073158, Dabih Major longitude 60°.
The average precession period of Dabih Major at 60° ecliptic longitude is 9389764.142857143.
Therefore, the last time the longitude of Dabih Major was 60° was September 17, 118232 BC, Julian Day -41462922.

公元前92521年4月28日，儒略日-32071754，木星黄经60°。当天，木星与牛宿一的黄经非常接近。
木星与牛宿一的黄经接近60°，平均周期是9388748.5天。
公元前66815年5月11日，儒略日-22682990，木星与牛宿一的黄经接近，与平均周期的计算结果相差仅16天。
公元前41111年3月31日，儒略日-13294280，木星与牛宿一的黄经接近，与平均周期的计算结果相差仅22.5天。
因此，在公元前92521年4月28日之前，木星与牛宿一的黄经接近60°，应为 -41460502 日，这是公元前118225年5月3日，误差范围似乎应该在20天左右。

April 28, 92521 BC, Julian Day -32071754, Jupiter's ecliptic longitude 60°. On that day, Jupiter was very close to the ecliptic longitude of Dabih Major.
The ecliptic longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major is close to 60°, and the average period is 9388748.5 days.
On May 11, 66815 BC, Julian Day -22682990, the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major were close to each other, and the difference from the calculation result of the average period was only 16 days.
On March 31, 41111 BC, Julian Day -13294280, the celestial longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major were close to each other, and the difference from the calculation result of the average period was only 22.5 days.
Therefore, before April 28, 92521 BC, the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter and Dabih Major was close to 60°, which should be Julian day -41460502. This is May 3, 118225 BC. The error range seems to be about 20 days.

公元前92521年4月28日，儒略日-32071754，木星黄经60°。
公元前66816年5月7日，儒略日 -22682993，木星黄经60°，跟上个周期 -32071754 相差 9388761 天。
公元前41111年8月24日，儒略日 -13294134，木星黄经60°，跟上个周期 相差 9388859 天。
公元前15406年8月9日，儒略日 -3905397，木星黄经60°，跟上个周期 相差 9388737 天。
公元10300年6月22日，儒略日 5483230，木星黄经60°，跟上个周期 相差 9388627。
计算可知，木星黄经60°的平均周期是 9388746 天。
因此，在公元前92521年以前，木星黄经60°的日期应该是 -41460500，这是公元前118225年5月5日。

April 28, 92521 BC, Julian Day -32071754, Jupiter's ecliptic longitude 60°.
On May 7, 66816 BC, the Julian day was -22682993, and the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter was 60°, which was 9388761 days away from the previous cycle of -32071754.
On August 24, 41111 BC, the Julian day was -13294134, and the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter was 60°, which was 9388859 days away from the previous cycle.
On August 9, 15406 BC, Julian Day was -3905397, Jupiter's ecliptic longitude was 60°, which was 9388737 days away from the previous cycle.
June 22, 10300 AD, Julian Day 5483230, Jupiter's ecliptic longitude was 60°, 9388627 days away from the previous cycle.
Calculation shows that the average period of Jupiter's ecliptic longitude 60° is 9388746 days.
Therefore, before 92521 BC, the date of Jupiter's 60° ecliptic longitude should be -41460500, which is May 5, 118225 BC.

根据上述计算结果，我认为，在公元前92521年以前，公元前118225年5月5日，木星与牛宿一正好接近黄经60°。
换言之，公元前118225年5月5日就是“小满”，太阳周年视运动位置黄经60°。
既然5月5日是“小满”，那么“冬至”必然在12月8日左右。
公元前118258年是唯一可以作为“历元”——历法起始年代——的年份。按现在的纪年干支回溯，这一年的纪年干支是“癸未”，因此这一年有“甲子月”，并且“甲子月”有“甲子日”。

Based on the above calculation results, I believe that before 92521 BC, on May 5, 118225 BC, Jupiter and Dabih Major were exactly close to 60° of the ecliptic longitude.
In other words, May 5, 118,225 BC was the "Lesser Fullness"（小满）, and the annual apparent motion position of the sun was 60° in ecliptic longitude.
Since May 5th is "Lesser Fullness", then the "Winter Solstice" must be around December 8th.
118258 BC is the only year that can be pointed as an "era" - the starting year of the calendar.
According to the current chronological stems and branches, the chronological stems and branches of this year are "Guiwei"（癸未）, so this year has "Jiazi month"（甲子月）, and "Jiazi month" has "Jiazi day"（甲子日）.

公元前118258年12月8日，儒略日-41472336，这一天就是“甲子日”。
由于5月5日左右是“小满”，因此公元前118258年12月8日一定就是“冬至”。
这是“甲子月甲子日”冬至。
公元前118232年9月17日，儒略日-41462922，牛宿一黄经60°。
用Stellarium模拟计算，公元前118258年12月8日，牛宿一黄经应该是59°38′38.9″左右。
在72年中，木星黄经60°的平均周期是 4364.766666666667 天。
公元前118225年5月5日，儒略日 -41460500，木星黄经60°。
因此，公元前118258年12月8日，木星的黄经也是59°38′左右。

December 8, 118258 BC, Julian Day - 41472336, this day is "Jiazi Day".
Since May 5th is "Lesser Fullness", December 8th, 118258 BC must be the "Winter Solstice"（冬至）.
This is the winter solstice on the "Jiazi month and Jiazi day".
September 17, 118232 B.C., Julian Day -41462922, Dabih Major ecliptic longitude 60°.
Using Stellarium simulation calculations, on December 8, 118258 BC, the ecliptic longitude of Dabih Major should be about 59°33′02.4″.
In 72 years, the average period of Jupiter's 60° ecliptic longitude is 4364.766666666667 days.
May 5, 118225 BC, Julian Day -41460500, Jupiter's ecliptic longitude 60°.
Therefore, on December 8, 118258 BC, the ecliptic longitude of Jupiter was also about 59°33′.

公元前118258年12月8日，是“甲子月甲子日”冬至，木星和牛宿一黄经接近60°。
这是唯一符合“历法起始年代”的一天。
这一天，日落时刻必然是在“子时正”，即0：0：0。
这一刻，正好是冬至，太阳黄经270°。
这一刻，必然发生了日全食。
于是，先民可以明确地看到木星和牛宿一位于黄道相同位置，同时明确认识到这是阴历月的第一日。
因此，这一天，这一刻，就能被先民指认为历法的起始——甲子年甲子月甲子日甲子时。

December 8, 118258 BC, was the winter solstice on the Jiazi day of the Jiazi month. Jupiter and the ecliptic longitude of Dabih Major were close to 60°.
This is the only day that matches the "starting year of the calendar".
On this day, the sunset time must be at "Zi Shi Zheng"（子时正）, that is, 0:0:0.
At this moment, it happens to be the winter solstice, and the sun's ecliptic longitude is 270°.
At this moment, a total solar eclipse must have occurred.
As a result, the First Men could clearly see that Jupiter and Dabih Major were at the same position on the ecliptic, and at the same time clearly recognized that this was the first day of the lunar month.
Therefore, this day and this moment can be identified by the First Men as the beginning of the calendar - Jiazi year, Jiazi month, Jiazi day, Jiazi hour（甲子年甲子月甲子日甲子时）.

先民以牛宿一为坐标原点，划分出了黄道十二宫、二十八宿、二十七宿。
黄道十二宫的第一宫（摩羯宫）是“星纪”，在古代汉语和方言中读为 tseng-gei ，与发明文字的“仓颉”同音，也与炎帝、黄帝的姓“姜、姬”同音。
实际上，我认为，“仓颉”、“姜姬”就是“星纪”。所谓“星纪”，就是以木星为纪历的起始。
牛宿一是“星纪”的中点、二十八宿的牛宿的起点、二十八宿斗宿的中点。

The First Men used Dabih Major as the origin of the coordinates and divided the zodiac into the twelve constellations, the twenty-eight hsius（二十八宿）, and the twenty-seven hsius（二十七宿）.
The first constellation of the zodiac (Capricorn) is "Xing Ji"（星纪）, which is pronounced as "tseng-gei" in ancient Chinese and dialects. It is the same as "Cangjie"（仓颉） who invented writing, and also has the same pronunciation as "Jiang and Ji"（姜、姬）, the surnames of Emperor Yan（炎帝） and Emperor Yellow（黄帝）.
In fact, I think "Cangjie" and "Jiang Ji" are "Xing Ji". The so-called "Xing Ji" refers to Jupiter as the starting point of the chronological calendar.
Dabih Major is the midpoint of the "Xing Ji", the starting point of Ox of the 28 hsius  , and the midpoint of Dipper of the 27 hsius .
Forever so.

在遥远的年代，先民根据这奇特的一刻，一次性发明了三个最重要的黄道坐标。
这就是“文明”的起点。
这就是先民走出非洲的根本驱动力。

In distant times, the First Men invented the three most important zodiac coordinates at once based on this peculiar moment.
This is where “civilization” begins.
This was the fundamental driving force and "core high technology" for the First Men to leave Africa.

感谢 Stellarium 的卓越贡献。
没有 Stellarium ，我没有可能走得这么远。
我认为，我对 Stellarium 的信心比 Stellarium 团队要大得多。
因为你们不了解中国文献记载的遥远年代的天文数据。
但是，毫无疑问，Stellarium 可以做得更好。
我期待着你们的辉煌。

Thanks to Stellarium for your great contribution.
I wouldn’t have gotten this far without Stellarium.
I think I have much more confidence in Stellarium than the Stellarium team.
Because you don’t understand the astronomical data of distant times recorded in Chinese documents.
However, there is no doubt that Stellarium can do better.
I look forward to your glory.

[道非常]

朋友帮我解除了 stellarium 的时间限制，于是我找到了最大程度符合此前推测的天象。
公元前117835年2月25日，北纬30°，西经18° 20' 51.97"。
日落时刻，冬至交节。
如果月亮的轨道计算正确，就会看到日落时刻发生日全食。
木星和牛宿一黄经值接近，几乎是黄经60°。
这就是我推测的人类文明正式诞生时刻的天象。
先民以牛宿一为坐标原点，发明了黄道十二宫、二十七宿和二十八宿。
牛宿一是摩羯宫的中点、二十八宿牛宿的起点、二十七宿斗宿的中点。
这三大黄道坐标的完成，意味着天文观测技术的进一步精密化，文明正式诞生。
这一刻，在中文历法中就是历法的起点：甲子年甲子月甲子日甲子时。
天文观测技术，是促使人类走出非洲的核心高科技。

A friend helped me remove the time restriction on Stellarium, allowing me to locate the celestial phenomenon that most closely matches the previous speculation.
On February 25, 117,835 BC, at 30° North latitude and 18° 20' 51.97" West longitude, at sunset, the winter solstice occurred.
If the moon's orbit is calculated correctly, a total solar eclipse would be observed at sunset.
Jupiter and Beta Capricorni (Dabih) were close in ecliptic longitude, nearly at 60° ecliptic longitude.
This is the celestial phenomenon I speculate to mark the formal birth of human civilization.
The ancients used Beta Capricorni as the coordinate origin to invent the zodiac signs, the 27 lunar mansions, and the 28 lunar mansions.
Beta Capricorni is the midpoint of Capricorn, the starting point of the Ox mansion in the 28 mansions, and the midpoint of the Dipper mansion in the 27 mansions.
The completion of these three major ecliptic coordinate systems signifies the further refinement of astronomical observation techniques and the formal birth of civilization.
This moment, in the Chinese calendar, marks the starting point: the Jiazi year, Jiazi month, Jiazi day, and Jiazi hour.
Astronomical observation technology was the core high-tech that enabled humans to migrate out of Africa.

[Georg Zotti]

> If the moon's orbit is calculated correctly, a total solar eclipse would be observed at sunset.

The Moon's orbit is not calculated correctly for 117.835 BC.

[老道]

Georg Zotti <georg...@univie.ac.at> 于2025年3月19日周三 23:02写道：

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佛本无生，信陆象水龙百转劫灰终不死；
我来访旧，看怡红快绿千秋景物此重新。

[Pokojowa Apokalipsa]

The Sun is written with a CAPITAL letter.

https://a.co/d/gTujALk

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