Jim Kirk's Fighter vs Bomber Comparison
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Jim_Kirk
May 31, 2012, 11:22:48 AM5/31/12
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"Jim looks like you got a fighter and a bomber which one do you like better?" Stealth Forum on Endless Sphere -page 123
Ahhh, indeed that is the question. Let me set the stage for an answer so you have some background. My objective was street riding at various speeds and I wanted to have gears so I could match cadence to bike speed. First a no pedaling data point.
No pedaling flat road top speed of the Bomber is 48 mph and Fighter is 35 mph.
As of today I have 3,800 miles on the Bomber and 250 miles on the Fighter. The Bomber came to me first, August 2011. The Fighter came March 2012. Had an Optibike 850R (Rohloff rear hub-self install before Opti started selling it) for about 2 years before the Stealth's, 11K miles on the Opti when I sold it.
About 4 weeks ago I got to the point where the Strealth's are both set up the way I like them for street riding. I grab either one for a short commute to the store (less than 5 miles) and for a longer ride (that's about 10-15 miles for me) at this time I grab the Bomber.
I have a few hundred miles on the 13T freewheel modification for the Bomber and I put a 7 speed freewheel, a derailleur, and a 40T chainring on the Fighter when I got it so both gearing systems are now nicely matched to my cadence capabilities (old guy cadence :lol: , max 85 more like 70-75 for street riding). Of the 7 derailleur gears on the Fighter 5 are usable (11,13,15,18,21) because of the derailleur hanger position.
With my gearing I now get:
Bomber: 70 rpm = 33 mph (13T Freewheel and G9)
Fighter: 70 rpm = 35 mph (40T Chainring on 11T at Freewheel, Schlumpf high gear)
Out of the box, however, my Bomber and my Fighter both came with a 16T Dicta freewheel (yes same on both) with a 36T Chainring on the Fighter (70 rpm = 19.7 mph in Schlumpf high gear) . For my street riding the Fighter, out of the box, was not geared as good as the Bomber. Now they are both geared well for me. Bomber shifting is precise and you know exactly what gear you are in-no phantom shifts-no multiple clicks of the twist grip shifter to get one gear changes. Derailleur shifting on the Fighter is not as good-clicks of the twist grip shifter don't cause corresponding gear changes on the derailleur. For the Fighter this is usable but not nearly as good as the precise Bomber shifting. For the Fighter I'll just live with it.
Bomber came out of the box with Triple crown forks, Fighter came with single crown. My Optibike 850R came with single crown so I got used to 90 degree handlebar turns for street riding maneuverability and ease of moving the bike around my shop. Didn't realize how much I missed single crown maneuverability until the Fighter arrived. So, I made all the Stealth's the same with a single crown Fox Van Fork. Out of the box, for me, Fighter was better for maneuvering. Now its a non issue both are the same.
Both bikes are set up as close to identical as I can make them. Seat height, handlebar position, tires (dual ply Hookworm), brakes, rear rack, etc. Close my eyes and sit on one vs the other its hard to tell them apart :D.
Battery range is no issue for either bike for my riding pattern. I ride, use maybe 500-600 WH at most on my longer rides, I bring it back and I charge.
With all this a background I'll answer the burning question of which I like better :D , with the caveat your answer may be different.
I like the Bomber better. Why? Main Reasons are:
1. The Bomber has better shifting performance, crisper and more positive. You know exactly what gear you are in for the Bomber, not so with the derailleur equipped Fighter.
2. The Bomber has more acceleration than the Fighter which I like (even old street riding guys like things like this). The Bomber goes like hell when you twist the throttle. Fighter is more refined and, if I can use the word, gentle, in twist grip power application.
3. I'm a tall guy at 6 feet 1 inch so when I sit on the Bomber the angle of viewing (my eyes looking at the Cycle Analyst screen) is better for the Bomber than the Fighter. True, its a small point but very noticeable since the CA is the centerpiece instrumentation on the Stealth's
Now, would I let my daughter ride the Bomber when she visits me. No. Too much power and the power is not well managed with the twist grip throttle. I've adjusted to the bike but lifting the front wheel is just too easy on the Bomber. Fighter-no problem. Its fast and power is well managed with the throttle. How about if ES members wanted to ride one? Well you could try either but leave me your VISA card if you try the Bomber.
-Jim
Ahhh, indeed that is the question. Let me set the stage for an answer so you have some background. My objective was street riding at various speeds and I wanted to have gears so I could match cadence to bike speed. First a no pedaling data point.
No pedaling flat road top speed of the Bomber is 48 mph and Fighter is 35 mph.
As of today I have 3,800 miles on the Bomber and 250 miles on the Fighter. The Bomber came to me first, August 2011. The Fighter came March 2012. Had an Optibike 850R (Rohloff rear hub-self install before Opti started selling it) for about 2 years before the Stealth's, 11K miles on the Opti when I sold it.
About 4 weeks ago I got to the point where the Strealth's are both set up the way I like them for street riding. I grab either one for a short commute to the store (less than 5 miles) and for a longer ride (that's about 10-15 miles for me) at this time I grab the Bomber.
I have a few hundred miles on the 13T freewheel modification for the Bomber and I put a 7 speed freewheel, a derailleur, and a 40T chainring on the Fighter when I got it so both gearing systems are now nicely matched to my cadence capabilities (old guy cadence :lol: , max 85 more like 70-75 for street riding). Of the 7 derailleur gears on the Fighter 5 are usable (11,13,15,18,21) because of the derailleur hanger position.
With my gearing I now get:
Bomber: 70 rpm = 33 mph (13T Freewheel and G9)
Fighter: 70 rpm = 35 mph (40T Chainring on 11T at Freewheel, Schlumpf high gear)
Out of the box, however, my Bomber and my Fighter both came with a 16T Dicta freewheel (yes same on both) with a 36T Chainring on the Fighter (70 rpm = 19.7 mph in Schlumpf high gear) . For my street riding the Fighter, out of the box, was not geared as good as the Bomber. Now they are both geared well for me. Bomber shifting is precise and you know exactly what gear you are in-no phantom shifts-no multiple clicks of the twist grip shifter to get one gear changes. Derailleur shifting on the Fighter is not as good-clicks of the twist grip shifter don't cause corresponding gear changes on the derailleur. For the Fighter this is usable but not nearly as good as the precise Bomber shifting. For the Fighter I'll just live with it.
Bomber came out of the box with Triple crown forks, Fighter came with single crown. My Optibike 850R came with single crown so I got used to 90 degree handlebar turns for street riding maneuverability and ease of moving the bike around my shop. Didn't realize how much I missed single crown maneuverability until the Fighter arrived. So, I made all the Stealth's the same with a single crown Fox Van Fork. Out of the box, for me, Fighter was better for maneuvering. Now its a non issue both are the same.
Both bikes are set up as close to identical as I can make them. Seat height, handlebar position, tires (dual ply Hookworm), brakes, rear rack, etc. Close my eyes and sit on one vs the other its hard to tell them apart :D.
Battery range is no issue for either bike for my riding pattern. I ride, use maybe 500-600 WH at most on my longer rides, I bring it back and I charge.
With all this a background I'll answer the burning question of which I like better :D , with the caveat your answer may be different.
I like the Bomber better. Why? Main Reasons are:
1. The Bomber has better shifting performance, crisper and more positive. You know exactly what gear you are in for the Bomber, not so with the derailleur equipped Fighter.
2. The Bomber has more acceleration than the Fighter which I like (even old street riding guys like things like this). The Bomber goes like hell when you twist the throttle. Fighter is more refined and, if I can use the word, gentle, in twist grip power application.
3. I'm a tall guy at 6 feet 1 inch so when I sit on the Bomber the angle of viewing (my eyes looking at the Cycle Analyst screen) is better for the Bomber than the Fighter. True, its a small point but very noticeable since the CA is the centerpiece instrumentation on the Stealth's
Now, would I let my daughter ride the Bomber when she visits me. No. Too much power and the power is not well managed with the twist grip throttle. I've adjusted to the bike but lifting the front wheel is just too easy on the Bomber. Fighter-no problem. Its fast and power is well managed with the throttle. How about if ES members wanted to ride one? Well you could try either but leave me your VISA card if you try the Bomber.
-Jim
Jim_Kirk
Jun 1, 2012, 10:13:21 AM6/1/12
to stealth-ele...@googlegroups.com
The 13T Bomber freewheel modification:
http://www.fareinc.com/65/13T/
The derailleur addition to the Fighter:
http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Derailleur/
Video of the Fighter derailleur operation with my comments. Video is about 75 MB-be patient. Will show in the browser if you right click on it or you can download and look at it outside of the browser.
http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Videos/Fighter-Derailleur.mp4
The two Stealth's:
http://www.fareinc.com/65/FoxVan/
-Jim
http://www.fareinc.com/65/13T/
The derailleur addition to the Fighter:
http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Derailleur/
Video of the Fighter derailleur operation with my comments. Video is about 75 MB-be patient. Will show in the browser if you right click on it or you can download and look at it outside of the browser.
http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Videos/Fighter-Derailleur.mp4
The two Stealth's:
http://www.fareinc.com/65/FoxVan/
-Jim
Elect Bike
Jun 1, 2012, 10:41:41 AM6/1/12
to Stealth Electric Bikes
What kind of range have you been getting on the ffighter at say 25 to
30 mph ? I realize those are high speed averages that are difficult to
maintain. Just curious about aprox ranges at higher speeds above 20
mph average.
thanks for the reviews.
On Jun 1, 7:13 am, Jim_Kirk <jim.kirk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 13T Bomber freewheel modification:http://www.fareinc.com/65/13T/
>
> The derailleur addition to the Fighter:http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Derailleur/
>
> Video of the Fighter derailleur operation with my comments. Video is about
> 75 MB-be patient. Will show in the browser if you right click on it or you
> can download and look at it outside of the browser.http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Videos/Fighter-Derailleur.mp4
30 mph ? I realize those are high speed averages that are difficult to
maintain. Just curious about aprox ranges at higher speeds above 20
mph average.
thanks for the reviews.
On Jun 1, 7:13 am, Jim_Kirk <jim.kirk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 13T Bomber freewheel modification:http://www.fareinc.com/65/13T/
>
> The derailleur addition to the Fighter:http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/Derailleur/
>
> Video of the Fighter derailleur operation with my comments. Video is about
> 75 MB-be patient. Will show in the browser if you right click on it or you
Jim_Kirk
Jun 1, 2012, 11:27:49 AM6/1/12
to stealth-ele...@googlegroups.com
EB,
Don't know those numbers because I normally just go for a ride (speeds are quite variable over my ride), get back, look at the WH, reset the CA, and then charge. I have looked at the CA WH/mi reading at the end of the ride but the CA number is the average for the entire ride.
-Jim
Don't know those numbers because I normally just go for a ride (speeds are quite variable over my ride), get back, look at the WH, reset the CA, and then charge. I have looked at the CA WH/mi reading at the end of the ride but the CA number is the average for the entire ride.
-Jim
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