Brian Czech responds to Paul Krugman in the Huffington Post

[Rentz Hilyer]

You've probably seen Brian Czech's response to Paul Krugman's recent argument against the idea of limits to growth. You're a prolific group. I encourage everyone to weigh in on this dialog. It's a rare opportunity to get into the mix with Paul Krugman. We want the Huffington Post to start seeing this topic as newsworthy and of interest to many. We also are hoping for just enough traffic that this column makes it back to Krugman, who could one day become an ally, or at least stop his perpetual growth pontificating.

[Darrell Prince`]

Is he saying that green programs will not increase GDP? I agree that GDP is not the ultimate measure of human need. but the amount of work entailed in lowering our per capita emissions is going to increase our GDP.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Rentz Hilyer <rentz...@gmail.com> wrote:

You've probably seen Brian Czech's response to Paul Krugman's recent argument against the idea of limits to growth. You're a prolific group. I encourage everyone to weigh in on this dialog. It's a rare opportunity to get into the mix with Paul Krugman. We want the Huffington Post to start seeing this topic as newsworthy and of interest to many. We also are hoping for just enough traffic that this column makes it back to Krugman, who could one day become an ally, or at least stop his perpetual growth pontificating.

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[da...@growthbusters.org]

Great request, Rentz. Glad CASSE has waded into this.

Growth Bias Busted has devoted the entire week to this topic. If any of you are looking for some good background to inform your comments on HuffPost, you may enjoy reviewing the debate:

MONDAY: Paul Krugman Digging Way to China

http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of-shame/entry/paul-krugman-digging-way-to-china

TUESDAY: Heinberg: The Limits of Hubris

http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of-fame/entry/heinberg-the-limits-of-hubris

WEDNESDAY: Why So Hard to Question Growth?

http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of-fame/entry/why-so-hard-to-question-growth

THURSDAY: Brian Czechs Krugman on Limits to Growth

http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of-fame/entry/brian-czechs-krugman-on-limits-to-growth

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On Oct 17, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Rentz Hilyer <rentz...@gmail.com> wrote:

You've probably seen Brian Czech's response to Paul Krugman's recent argument against the idea of limits to growth. You're a prolific group. I encourage everyone to weigh in on this dialog. It's a rare opportunity to get into the mix with Paul Krugman. We want the Huffington Post to start seeing this topic as newsworthy and of interest to many. We also are hoping for just enough traffic that this column makes it back to Krugman, who could one day become an ally, or at least stop his perpetual growth pontificating.

[biz modl]

from a harris model point of view, arguing about growth or limits isn't really an issue.  harris says that people in all cultures make decisions by choosing options that meet their basic needs with least effort (he defines basic needs in terms of food (sustenance), sex and love (all types of 'belonging')). 

 

if you want a steady state culture, you need zero growth production and population systems that meet member's basic needs with minimal effort that are as good or better than the current systems.  this is a matter of design.  there is nothing in the current system that stops a group of people (who believe in no growth) from developing a counter culture that is steady state.  but you can't get there if you spend all your intellectual capital and effort arguing with people who have overriding vested interests in the current system.

 

don’t argue - compete! give people good options and they will take them J

 

have fun,    biz

[Darrell Prince`]

true speak

[Cole Thompson]

That has me thinking (I have not read Harris deeply yet), there may indeed be something to the idea of "compete."  So we know that many find modern life in the developed world taxing.  From a Silicon Valley CA perspective, it seems as if one gets an earful from people saying how exhausting things are.  I find it more stimulating than exhausting but that's me, and I might change with the passage of years.  So, to cut to the chase, if the current system is not fun to individuals, if an SSE lifestyle / township / society offered good food, sex and love, and a credible hope of not being a mirage, I could see people saying "sign me up" just out of self interest.

[Keith Hudson]

Paul Krugman, after pushing an ultra-Keynesian position for years has now decided to switch horses and follow his new idol, Larry Summers, in propositioning "secure stagation". (Apart from describing the present situation so uneloquently, Larry Summers has given no reason for it as far as I understand).

Not only is Paul Krugman switching horses but he's driving another team simultaneously.

As for Brian Czech's rebuttal, I didn't think much of that anyway. Besides, he's quite wrong at the end of this piece about Adam Smith. Brilliant though A.S. was, he couldn't possibly have had any idea of the immensity of the coal and oil resources in the world and that it would drive economic growth at such a fast clip resulting in the overwhelming power of the mammoth mulitnational corporations that we have today. 

I've given account of why I think a steady-state world economy is probably not far off -- when a  Chinese-Korean consumer goods manufacturing economy will trade with a US-Europe-UK sophisticated services economic in a sort of exclusive dumb-bell shaped manner, leaving most countries out of the picture becajse they wlonlt nhave the culture or the investments to be able to break in.

Keith    

At 17:03 17/10/2014, you wrote:

You've probably seen Brian Czech's response to Paul Krugman's recent argument against the idea of limits to growth. You're a prolific group. I encourage everyone to weigh in on this dialog. It's a rare opportunity to get into the mix with Paul Krugman. We want the Huffington Post to start seeing this topic as newsworthy and of interest to many. We also are hoping for just enough traffic that this column makes it back to Krugman, who could one day become an ally, or at least stop his perpetual growth pontificating.