Some OT trivia: Windows NT celebrate it's 10 years anniversary July 27
Vaughn Bender
wow 10 years of ripping people off and robbing their pockets...always
advertising that the NEXT version will be better...
sorry...couldn't help myself...
.........Vaughn
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:21:27 UTC, "Martin Törnsten"
<omar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> A little OT warning, but long time reader of this group, and as a long time
> user of not only OS/2 (even if not currently) and also NT, 2000 (and now XP
> and Windows Server) I would like to send some short trivia notice that NT
> was RTM July 26 1993 at 2:30 p.m and because of that NT and all it's newer
> derivatives as 2000, XP, Windows Server, XP Embedded, etc (almost all of
> Microsoft's big OS line) just celebrated 10 years!
>
> Best regards,
>
> martin t”rnsten
>
> --
> http://194.236.153.211/
>
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Martin Törnsten
"Vaughn Bender" <vaughn!SP...@stechgroup.ca> wrote in message
news:4N84hVfC7gck-pn2-TtUTnWFdLtSf@dads...
: Hi
Hi!
: wow 10 years of ripping people off and robbing their pockets...always
I'm a long time customer myself, and I would say that I have been generously
treated with free updates and service packs for all years for free (in
difference to OS/2, which I once used, and Windows 95/98 users). I'm very
happy with both the long time support and development that Microsoft has
committed to (even if it was a very small user base in the beginning they
have always stood firmly behind it and never given up on it's users).
: advertising that the NEXT version will be better...
Well, it has become better for each version (and strange would be if not --
as they mostly compete with their own products they need to provide better
versions to be able to give better value to it's customers) and with over 10
years it's quite obvious if we take some time and look back how long it has
come from NT 3.1 to XP and from NT AS 3.1 to Server 2003. Quite fascinating
what a good journey it has been when I come to think about it.
You also have to count in that even if OS/2 isn't any potential threat since
long, you still have potential competition from Apple (with their first real
desktop OS now in form of MacOS X) and Linux/*BSD who has many heavy backers
(not at least IBM who puts extremely much effort and resources behind
Linux -- which OS/2 unfortunately never got even at it's best years).
So it has been some very interesting years indeed... and many more to come
(for both NT and also all it's competitors).
: sorry...couldn't help myself...
No problem at all.
I always appreciate both an honest discussion and not at least some
nostalgia!
Best regards,
martin törnsten
Vaughn Bender
Yes...can't argue with that but I use Windows XP and 2k at work and
using it in a Netware environment and there are many short falls I
have witnessed of the win OS's. The newer the OS, the more resources
it needs...and more CPU power...in my opinion is that is not
better...but hardware prices are quite cheaper now so it does the
trade off....Windows is definitely IT in the world and no arguments
there.
again I have to stay with eCS ....in the Novell environment, it is
much much quicker in a netware environment, and very very stable, most
all tools now in Netware are browser based to I don't have to use
windoz, my eCS system at work is up more than down (reboots etc.) and
I have a minimum of 10 apps open at work. With XP....wouldn't dare
have more than 4 open at a time or there are app freezes ocasionally
and have to restart the apps, desktop freezes for what ever the
reason.
anyways...I would love to see XP as stable as eCS as there are more
apps available on that platform. But I am very content using what I
have both at work and at home. many trade offs for being there but I
like my system to work and work well....
TTL
Vaughn
Martin Törnsten
: have witnessed of the win OS's. The newer the OS, the more resources
: it needs...and more CPU power...in my opinion is that is not
In my experience it do consumes a little bit more memory for each new
version in synch with the hardware advances (just like most software), but
actually gets to be faster and more optimized (consume less CPU) for each
version.
: I have a minimum of 10 apps open at work. With XP....wouldn't dare
: have more than 4 open at a time or there are app freezes ocasionally
I have about 20 applications open at the same time.
: and have to restart the apps, desktop freezes for what ever the
: reason.
I think you definitely should check your machine (or the IT people managing
it). I can assure you that's *not* standard behavior in NT/2K/XP.
Take care Bender!
Vaughn Bender
I am the IT support for the School Division...infact I manage over 800
wkstns and 22 Netware servers and 3 web servers.
NT, 2K, and Xp all seem to have similar issues. All windows OS's have
similar issues...if you install and uninstall too many apps the OS is
happy. If you install too many apps....then is boggs...and the only
way to resolve it is reimage the darn thing. Thank goodness for
Semantic Norton Ghost with multicast. Also Novell licenses software
from PowerQuest that makes it easy to reimage with no human
intervention....remote imaging becomes a breeze.
every two years we reimage a lab of PC's because they slow down and
become almost useless... reimaging restores them to their proper
speeds. To me it is a pathetic OS when one has to do such a thing. I
only see such an effort is one is upgrading hardware...like the hard
drive.
I am not the only one with these same issues.... Ask any IT person
with large networks,
Vaughn
Martin Törnsten
: Hi
:
: I am the IT support for the School Division...infact I manage over 800
: wkstns and 22 Netware servers and 3 web servers.
:
: NT, 2K, and Xp all seem to have similar issues. All windows OS's have
Ouch!!!
And you only manages to make an image with these OS who at maximum can run
four (4) applications at the same time on NT, 2000 and XP???
I think you should *seriously* reconsider your job position in that case...
David H. McCoy
SP...@stechgroup.ca says...
home and I've never seen these issues. I work with these IT people.
--
--------------------------------------
David H. McCoy
--------------------------------------
Salvador R. Manzo
There are two likely cause for the behaviour that Vaughn describes...
heavy fragmentation due to a large amount of file activity over the
course of the OS lifetime (which would be expected in lab computers,
as projects from multiple people are created, deleted, etc.) and messy
uninstall routines. If the users have rights to install software,
they will, and that stuff doesn't necessarily get cleaned up properly.
I've seen PCs with four or five separate installations of AOL,
multiple installation of the same IM software,etc, where the concept
of Add/Remove Programs is a mystery (they just... delete stuff.)
Again, this is the kind of thing I'd expect in a lab.
That said, the Uni at which I work re-images their lab machines weekly
(Mac and PC alike.) This isn't done because of any particular
weakness in the OSes involved, it's just a basic support question.
The lab consultants are usually undergrads with some basic support
training. We need to make sure that what's on the machines is only
the supported suite of applications, so images are the best way to
insure it.
---
Salvador R. Manzo
System Administrator
Finance and Accounting
USC Auxiliaries Services
These are my views, not USC's. So, there.
Vaughn Bender
With Novell Zenworks uses have NO rights to install anything...all
apps are controlled or installed from the server....Users only have a
drive letter to their mapped home directory on the Netware Server
which is also controlled and restricted by Netware.
As I said...if you only install just a hand full of apps the OS is
happy....students have no rights to add apps etc...but really Win9x is
still only dos and we remember how win3x would slow down over time
... win9x is No different. NT/Win2k/xp is better but only just some
what better... People have come to accept that you redo your system
every couple of years... I don't share that same view.
At the Senior level where they USE the pcs there is lots of disk
activity...but again no rights to the local drive and over time they
experience slow down and a fresh install of the OS and apps give the
system new life. Hummf....why?
........Vaughn
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:41:30 UTC, David H. McCoy <fa...@mail.com>
wrote:
--
Vaughn Bender
>
> And you only manages to make an image with these OS who at maximum can run
> four (4) applications at the same time on NT, 2000 and XP???
A DEFINITION of "IMAGE"! -> Take a pc reinstall windows from
scratch ....apply all current service packs, and common apps. Then
image it to a file and use that image to restore all same pcs to
original.
any inifficencies of running apps is NOT the fault of the image but
the issue of the OS ! :-(
as with ANY winOS.
.....cheers
Vaughn
David H. McCoy
SP...@stechgroup.ca says...
> Hi
>
> apps are controlled or installed from the server....Users only have a
> drive letter to their mapped home directory on the Netware Server
> which is also controlled and restricted by Netware.
>
> As I said...if you only install just a hand full of apps the OS is
> happy....students have no rights to add apps etc...but really Win9x is
> still only dos and we remember how win3x would slow down over time
> ... win9x is No different. NT/Win2k/xp is better but only just some
> what better... People have come to accept that you redo your system
> every couple of years... I don't share that same view.
>
> At the Senior level where they USE the pcs there is lots of disk
> activity...but again no rights to the local drive and over time they
> experience slow down and a fresh install of the OS and apps give the
> system new life. Hummf....why?
>
> ........Vaughn
>
> > Please. Every job I've had since 98 have used NT and 2000. I use XP at
> > home and I've never seen these issues. I work with these IT people.
>
And as I've said, I've used NT at home since 96 and at work since 98.
I've installed dozens of applications and I've never experienced this
slowdown caused by applications.
Heck, I worked at one company for 3.5 years and had the same PC for 2.5
years and NEVER reinstalled NT 4.
The only time I have a problems with required reinstallions were caused
by the AMD chipset I used, not the OS. This was running XP and those
problems al vanished when I upgrade to a Pentium 4. My systems at home
(4 of them) all run XP and have been absolute rock solid.
GLMarx
wrote:
> > As I said...if you only install just a hand full of apps the OS is
> > happy....students have no rights to add apps etc...but really Win9x is
> > still only dos and we remember how win3x would slow down over time
> > ... win9x is No different. NT/Win2k/xp is better but only just some
> > what better... People have come to accept that you redo your system
> > every couple of years... I don't share that same view.
There have been a handful of Windows Columnists that have advocated
this be done as a matter of course.
Brian Livingston from InfoWorld used to pose this very question quite
often.
Why after so much time does a windows computer start running slower
.. and slower ... and slower ?
> > > Please. Every job I've had since 98 have used NT and 2000. I use XP at
> > > home and I've never seen these issues. I work with these IT people.
> >
>
> And as I've said, I've used NT at home since 96 and at work since 98.
> I've installed dozens of applications and I've never experienced this
> slowdown caused by applications.
>
> Heck, I worked at one company for 3.5 years and had the same PC for 2.5
> years and NEVER reinstalled NT 4.
>
> The only time I have a problems with required reinstallions were caused
> by the AMD chipset I used, not the OS. This was running XP and those
> problems al vanished when I upgrade to a Pentium 4. My systems at home
> (4 of them) all run XP and have been absolute rock solid.
You're just blessed David ... Truly blessed :-)
David H. McCoy
gregor...@verizon.net says...
XP and none are having problems.
Perhaps I just not a victim of OS/2 bad luck.
Vaughn Bender
the data well....this is their biggest problem in the
OS...defragmentation and their bug ridden Registry...
Vaughn
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:27:29 UTC, David H. McCoy <fa...@mail.com>
wrote:
--
David H. McCoy
SP...@stechgroup.ca says...
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.36.186.9
>
> All Microsofts file systems suck and have the problem of not managing
> the data well....this is their biggest problem in the
> OS...defragmentation and their bug ridden Registry...
>
> Vaughn
>
Says with objective gentleman with fanatical fevor...
Bye.
Martin Törnsten
news:6mb8kv4to253n0tq2...@4ax.com...
: uninstall routines. If the users have rights to install software,
: they will, and that stuff doesn't necessarily get cleaned up properly.
: I've seen PCs with four or five separate installations of AOL,
: multiple installation of the same IM software,etc, where the concept
: of Add/Remove Programs is a mystery (they just... delete stuff.)
: Again, this is the kind of thing I'd expect in a lab.
Yes, that's probably the case.
: That said, the Uni at which I work re-images their lab machines weekly
: (Mac and PC alike.) This isn't done because of any particular
: weakness in the OSes involved, it's just a basic support question.
: The lab consultants are usually undergrads with some basic support
: training. We need to make sure that what's on the machines is only
: the supported suite of applications, so images are the best way to
: insure it.
I personally *love* to use images for such situation. I have a customer who
have a computer lab for people to learn using the machines, and that
includes giving them total control (administrative rights) over the
machines). It's perfect for that (and in many other areas).
What I reacted against is that Bender does seems to have major problems with
his own XP machine to the degree that he even can't get it to run four (4)
applications at the same time.
I quote bender:
<start bender testimonial>
windoz, my eCS system at work is up more than down (reboots etc.) and
I have a minimum of 10 apps open at work. With XP....wouldn't dare
have more than 4 open at a time or there are app freezes ocasionally
and have to restart the apps, desktop freezes for what ever the
reason.
<end bender testimonial>
That's quite an accomplishment (regardless if he did a standard
installation, or installed his machine from an earlier image he has setup)!
I think he *seriously* needs to get some people with more clues or knowledge
to get him a better machine or a better setup of it.