[First Project] The Blithedale Romance by Nathaniel Hawthorne

[Jason Livermore]

I'd like to produce as my first project, The Blithedale Romance by Nathaniel Hawthorne.

PG: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2081

IA has dozens of scans.  This one is published 1912, reprinted in 1926, so is perhaps the latest public domain version:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.202386

Jason

[Alex Cabal]

Great, that one would be a good start.

The latest possible page scan is a good bet. If that's the one, then
that works.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

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[B Keith]

This project has been sitting on my “to finish” list for almost a year now and I am happy to give it up. (Sorry Alex)

If you want, I have a cover that was approved, but feel free to find one that you like better.

Long Island Homestead, Study from Nature
Andrew W. Warren
1859
https://collections.si.edu/search/detail/edanmdm:saam_1971.373

Good luck!

Bruce

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[Jason Livermore]

Repository:  https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance

Jason

[Alex Cabal]

Vince, can you manage this with David reviewing?

> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
> >
> >
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
> >
> > The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
> >
> >

> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>

> >
> > Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our
> standards are well-established so there is probably already a
> standard for formatting whatever problem you've encountered.
> >
> > When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github
> repository so that I can mark you as having started.
> >
> > Have fun! :)
> >
> >
> > On 3/3/23 1:39 PM, Jason Livermore wrote:
> >> I'd like to produce as my first project, The Blithedale Romance
> by Nathaniel Hawthorne.
> >> PG: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2081
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2081>
> >> IA has dozens of scans. This one is published 1912, reprinted in
> 1926, so is perhaps the latest public domain version:
> >> https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.202386
> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.202386>
> >> Jason
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> >
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>
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[Vince]

Will do.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Can review.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/23f2461a-f670-97b6-1fd6-646a42f5c86d%40standardebooks.org.

[Jason Livermore]

I'm working with modernize-spelling and it gave me this:

"chapter-3.xhtml: “grownup” or “grown-up” detected. Confirm that “grownup” is strictly a noun, and “grown-up” is strictly

an adjective."

However, the online grammar advice and the dictionary tell me that "grownup" is never correct.  It's either grown-up (as adjective before noun) or "grown up" as noun.  I will go with the sense that fits, but maybe the script should be changed?

Jason

[Alex Cabal]

You can do what the tool says. This is an editorial style.

On 3/6/23 9:03 PM, Jason Livermore wrote:
> I'm working with modernize-spelling and it gave me this:
>
> "chapter-3.xhtml: “grownup” or “grown-up” detected. Confirm that
> “grownup” is strictly a noun, and “grown-up” is strictly
> an adjective."
>
> However, the online grammar advice and the dictionary tell me that
> "grownup" is never correct.  It's either grown-up (as adjective before
> noun) or "grown up" as noun.  I will go with the sense that fits, but
> maybe the script should be changed?
>
> Jason
>
> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 4:37:25 PM UTC-6 David at Standard Ebooks wrote:
>
> Can review.
> On 4 Mar 2023 at 8:54 AM +1100, Alex Cabal
> <al...@standardebooks.org>, wrote:
>> Vince, can you manage this with David reviewing?
>>
>> On 3/3/23 3:25 PM, Jason Livermore wrote:
>>> Repository:

>>> https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance <https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance>

>>> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>>

>>>>
>>>> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography
>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
>>>>
>>>> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>>>>
>>>>

>>> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>>

>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/88c7deea-9ab4-417e-86f8-896469e744e0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

>>>>
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[Vince]

Actually, our dictionary of record says that grown-up is the correct spelling for the adjective and the noun, which would simply everything. But neither matter; our EiC wants it the way it is, so that’s what we go with. :)

[Jason Livermore]

Looking for guidance on how much to work on spelling, after running the modernize script.

British or chiefly British should be updated to American standard?

Some others are variant spellings, in M-W, but not the most common spelling.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

Don't alter British spelling to American. Tag the language of your content files to en-GB instead of en-US in the header. Content.opf should also show the language to be en-GB.

I'm not sure what you mean by variant spellings. Can you give examples?

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[Jason Livermore]

Hawthorne was American and it's an American story.  I think the British spellings were just prevalent at the time he wrote it. It's a mix.  Offence, defence, plough, draught.  There are definitely other spellings that are American standard that would then have to change to British (labour, etc.)  So do we really want to mark this as a British language work?

Some variant words: sombre, incrusted (encrusted), strait (where the meaning is straight), spoilt, betwixt.

[Alex Cabal]

In those days there was less of a difference between "American" and
"British" spelling and it was often mixed. You don't have to change one
to the other. If it's unclear which one it is, just select one that you
think feels right for the `xml:lang` attribute on `<html>`.

Of your list, the only one we would change would be `strait`, and only
if it refers to something not crooked. `Strait` is still the correct
spelling for the water feature.

You can get an idea of a word's spelling history by using Google N-Gram.
Check the American English corpus vs the British English corpus to see
if a word really is archaically spelled in both variants, or just a
regional variant.

On 3/7/23 8:13 PM, Jason Livermore wrote:
> Hawthorne was American and it's an American story.  I think the British
> spellings were just prevalent at the time he wrote it. It's a mix.
> Offence, defence, plough, draught.  There are definitely other spellings
> that are American standard that would then have to change to British
> (labour, etc.)  So do we really want to mark this as a British language
> work?
>
> Some variant words: sombre, incrusted (encrusted), strait (where the
> meaning is straight), spoilt, betwixt.
>
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 7:44:49 PM UTC-6 David at Standard Ebooks
> wrote:
>
> Don't alter British spelling to American. Tag the language of your
> content files to en-GB instead of en-US in the header. Content.opf
> should also show the language to be en-GB.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by variant spellings. Can you give examples?
> On 8 Mar 2023 at 11:49 AM +1100, Jason Livermore
> <jason.l...@gmail.com>, wrote:
>> Looking for guidance on how much to work on spelling, after
>> running the modernize script.
>>
>> British or chiefly British should be updated to American standard?
>>
>> Some others are variant spellings, in M-W, but not the most common
>> spelling.
>>
>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 9:48:55 PM UTC-6 Vince wrote:
>>
>> Actually, our dictionary of record says that grown-up is the

>> correct spelling for the adjective /and/ the noun, which would

>> simply everything. But neither matter; our EiC wants it the
>> way it is, so that’s what we go with. :)
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2023, at 9:03 PM, Jason Livermore
>>> <jason.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm working with modernize-spelling and it gave me this:
>>>
>>> "chapter-3.xhtml: “grownup” or “grown-up” detected. Confirm
>>> that “grownup” is strictly a noun, and “grown-up” is strictly
>>> an adjective."
>>>
>>> However, the online grammar advice and the dictionary tell me
>>> that "grownup" is never correct.  It's either grown-up (as
>>> adjective before noun) or "grown up" as noun.  I will go with
>>> the sense that fits, but maybe the script should be changed?
>>
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[Jason Livermore]

Just going over the scan in fine detail now, I'm finding that the epub text most likely followed a different scan, or someone already made editorial decisions in transcribing.  There are many scans, and as I said, I picked one from 1926 that would be the latest public domain one.  The differences in epub do tend towards more modernized writing, i.e. hypenated words that the modernizer script might easily have changed anyway.  Very few other spelling differences.  Some punctuation that changed either through error or someone's decision, but I'm fixing anything that violates the style manual or general rules of grammar.

So...do I try to stay as close as possible to the scan that I picked?  Or leave the modernized changes if it's something we might have chosen to do anyway?

[Alex Cabal]

Vince, thoughts?

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/64c594fc-2dc3-4902-a7e1-4bdce64bc659n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/64c594fc-2dc3-4902-a7e1-4bdce64bc659n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/64c594fc-2dc3-4902-a7e1-4bdce64bc659n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/64c594fc-2dc3-4902-a7e1-4bdce64bc659n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Vince]

Sorry, we have company from out-of-town this weekend, so I’ve been AFK.

Speaking in broad generalities, if the transcription is PG, we leave it alone. They don’t always adhere to a single printed edition, so we can’t always perfectly identify the scans from which the transcription comes. The only reason I’ve deviated from that is if the transcription was from a very early edition and the scans were from a much later one with a lot better punctuation (generally way less commas, e.g. Tom Jones).

We should do generally one or the other though—stick with the transcription, or stick with the scans. We don’t want to re-edit the book. This also means we’re not trying to interpret the “general rules of grammar.” As stated previously, we also don’t generally mess with compound words that modernize spelling doesn’t change; there are just too many possibilities, changing them in one production isn’t helping the rest of the corpus, and it takes too much time for both producer and reviewer. It’s a very deep rabbit hole. :)

If the transcription has an actual mistake, e.g. a word that’s misspelled (usually an OCR mistake), correcting that is not an [Editorial] change, since we’re not making a change to the text, just putting it back like it was supposed to be. Same if we make changes to the transcription to match the scans. But other changes to the text are [Editorial], and we try to keep those to a minimum (apart from whatever modernize spelling does).

[Jason Livermore]

OK that makes sense to me. No need to creates lots of work and go
down rabbit holes. The PG text is very clean overall, just picky
little changes that we can keep, as long as they seem correct.

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[Jason Livermore]

A question about coding and formatting. One chapter has a story
within the chapter that is narrated by a character. It has its own
title. I tried putting in section and header tags, but it seems to
need some format, like a sort of subchapter heading to make it more
bold and pronounced. I could use h4, but I don't think it should end
up in the TOC. I looked at 7.2.10.8 in the manual. Not sure if I need
to add CSS code. In the Kindle rendering, the title was left
justified and not at all emphasized. Also, it should have a break at
the end to show where the narration ends, and regular story resumes.
Any tips?

<section id="subchapter-13-1" epub:type="z3998:subchapter">
<header>
<p>The Silvery Veil</p>
</header>
<p>You have heard, my dear friends, ......
....
.....she was his bond-slave for evermore!</p>
</section>
<p>Zenobia, all this while... [regular story resumes....]

[Vince]

I dug it out this time, but it’s very helpful if you provide a link to the place in the scans where your question is, so we can what the original looked like.

That’s just an extended blockquote; give it a header and format it appropriately (it will be centered already, but you can give it a margin, etc.).

[Jason Livermore]

For the cover, I'd like to use what Bruce had picked out and said was approved.  I have not committed it yet.

Long Island Homestead, Study from Nature
Andrew W. Warren
1859
https://collections.si.edu/search/detail/edanmdm:saam_1971.373 

In portrait aspect, it was bottom-heavy with a lot of sky, so I zoomed in a little bit and tried to center on something interesting.

[Vince]

Looks good, and PD proof is good.

Your crop is great, here’s the one Bruce did just so you can compare. You’re free to choose whichever one you prefer.

On Mar 20, 2023, at 2:25 PM, Jason Livermore <jason.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

For the cover, I'd like to use what Bruce had picked out and said was approved.  I have not committed it yet.

Long Island Homestead, Study from Nature 
Andrew W. Warren 
1859 
https://collections.si.edu/search/detail/edanmdm:saam_1971.373 

In portrait aspect, it was bottom-heavy with a lot of sky, so I zoomed in a little bit and tried to center on something interesting.

[Jason Livermore]

This is ready for review.  It was a fair amount of work -- some missing or wrong punctuation, wrong paragraph breaks, etc. in most chapters.  It should be in considerably better shape now.

https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance

[Alex Cabal]

David, you're up for review on this one

On 3/21/23 7:34 AM, Jason Livermore wrote:
> This is ready for review.  It was a fair amount of work -- some missing
> or wrong punctuation, wrong paragraph breaks, etc. in most chapters.  It
> should be in considerably better shape now.
>
> https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance
>
>
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 2:40:18 PM UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>
> Looks good, and PD proof is good.
>
> Your crop is great, here’s the one Bruce did just so you can
> compare. You’re free to choose whichever one you prefer.
>
>

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[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK. I'm pretty busy at the moment, so I won't be able to look at it until this weekend.

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[David Grigg]

Jason: this isn't a criticism, just a question, possibly more for Vince or Alex. 

In the scans you've linked to (the Everyman edition) there's both an Introduction by the series editor and quite an interesting Preface by the author (https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.202386/page/n13/mode/2up). These haven't been transcribed by PG, but my question is whether it would be worth transcribing these ourselves and including them (though this would mean the work needs a halftitle page). The introduction I'm ho-hum about, but the Preface by the author might be worth the trouble.

What do people think?

[Jason Livermore]

I was kind of thinking along these lines myself. If I remember correctly, looking through the many scans, this preface is by the author himself and might be in the original edition -- so seems fitting to include it. I'd be up for doing the work, but it would have to be after this coming "spring break" week.

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[David Grigg]

The more I look into it, the more I think we should include it. Here, for example, is what Wikipedia says:

"As one reviewer claims, the preface which is merely a disclaimer of sorts, "is by no means the least important part of it".[13] In fact, to many reviews this simple, non-fictional disclaimer seems to be the most important part of the book. Many reviews refer to the preface of the novel and express skepticism in regard to Hawthorne's plea contained therein for the reader not to take the characters and occurrences of the novel as representative of real-life people and events."

By the way, your long description is very short. It would. be good to look at the Wikipedia article and at least give us a brief summary of how the book was received and what its significance is considered to be.

[Vince]

I read it and I agree it should be included. It’s also short enough that transcribing it shouldn’t be too onerous.

[David Grigg]

Apart from the above, and a couple of small issues I've raised on your repository, this all looks very good.

[Brian]

If it's at all helpful, here's a transcription of the text of the preface. (I bashed it out while I was waiting for some laundry.) Even if you don't use it directly, I've often found it helpful to have two independent transcriptions for finding typos and such.

[Jason Livermore]

Thanks Brian. I'll bang out my own transcription and then compare
against yours. And I'll work out the other issues that David raised,
and get this thing finished. It's been fun and interesting so far.

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 1:22 AM Brian <blr....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If it's at all helpful, here's a transcription of the text of the preface. (I bashed it out while I was waiting for some laundry.) Even if you don't use it directly, I've often found it helpful to have two independent transcriptions for finding typos and such.
>

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[Jason Livermore]

I managed to finish the preface and add the half title page, and fix
the issues David pointed out. I'll be away this coming week, but when
I get back I'll put in a better long description, and recheck once
more.

[Jason Livermore]

I think it's ready for final review again. Preface added, improved
long description.

https://github.com/javamanatee/nathaniel-hawthorne_the-blithedale-romance

[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, please give me a day or two to look at it again. (You'd think that being retired, I would have lots of time, but let me tell you, it doesn't work out that way!)

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[David Grigg]

Jason, it's coming along nicely. The revised long description looks good, the preface looks good and the revised ToC structure looks good.

There are another couple of minor issues I've raised on the repository, but after you've fixed those it should be ready to go.

[Jason Livermore]

David, I just fixed the new issues.  Should be ready now.

[David at Standard Ebooks]

OK, Alex, over to you.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, everything looks good and I've gone ahead and released it. Great
work Jason, thanks!

If you'd like to work on another book, check out our wanted list for
moderate-difficulty productions, or pitch something else that might
interest you to the mailing list.

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