[Next Project] The Fifth Queen Crowned by Ford Madox Ford

[Stephen Fenwick]

I'd like to take this on next to complete the series:

The Fifth Queen Crowned by Ford Madox Ford | Project Gutenberg

The fifth queen: The fifth queen, Privy Seal, The fifth queen crowned : Ford, Ford Madox, 1873-1939. cn : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

For the cover I'm considering this image:

File:Hans Holbein the Younger - Jane Seymour, Queen of England - Google Art Project.jpg - Wikipedia

PD proof: Hans Holbein the younger : Chamberlain, Arthur Bensley : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, page 218

[Alex Cabal]

OK, sure. Please send a link to your repo once you start!

On 4/3/26 8:15 PM, Stephen Fenwick wrote:
> I'd like to take this on next to complete the series:

> The Fifth Queen Crowned by Ford Madox Ford | Project Gutenberg <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/27432>

> The fifth queen: The fifth queen, Privy Seal, The fifth queen crowned :
> Ford, Ford Madox, 1873-1939. cn : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming :

> Internet Archive <https://archive.org/details/fifthqueenfift00ford/page/
> n15/mode/2up>

>
> For the cover I'm considering this image:
> File:Hans Holbein the Younger - Jane Seymour, Queen of England - Google

> Art Project.jpg - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> File:Hans_Holbein_the_Younger_-_Jane_Seymour,_Queen_of_England_-
> _Google_Art_Project.jpg>

> PD proof: Hans Holbein the younger : Chamberlain, Arthur Bensley : Free

> Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive <https://archive.org/
> details/hansholbeinyoung02cham/page/n217/mode/2up>, page 218
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/864072db-e74f-43a4-b33a-d7fb8c81e815n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/864072db-e74f-43a4-
> b33a-d7fb8c81e815n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Stephen Fenwick]

Repo is here: https://github.com/spfenwick/ford-madox-ford_the-fifth-queen-crowned

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Lukas will manage with David reviewing.

On 4/8/26 12:01 AM, Stephen Fenwick wrote:
> Repo is here: https://github.com/spfenwick/ford-madox-ford_the-fifth-
> queen-crowned

>
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2026 at 6:40:24 AM UTC+12 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, sure. Please send a link to your repo once you start!
>
> On 4/3/26 8:15 PM, Stephen Fenwick wrote:
> > I'd like to take this on next to complete the series:
> > The Fifth Queen Crowned by Ford Madox Ford | Project Gutenberg
> <https://

> > www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/27432 <http://www.gutenberg.org/

> ebooks/27432>>
> > The fifth queen: The fifth queen, Privy Seal, The fifth queen
> crowned :
> > Ford, Ford Madox, 1873-1939. cn : Free Download, Borrow, and
> Streaming :
> > Internet Archive <https://archive.org/details/

> fifthqueenfift00ford/page/ <https://archive.org/details/
> fifthqueenfift00ford/page/>

> > n15/mode/2up>
> >
> > For the cover I'm considering this image:
> > File:Hans Holbein the Younger - Jane Seymour, Queen of England -
> Google
> > Art Project.jpg - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/>
> > File:Hans_Holbein_the_Younger_-_Jane_Seymour,_Queen_of_England_-
> > _Google_Art_Project.jpg>
> > PD proof: Hans Holbein the younger : Chamberlain, Arthur
> Bensley : Free
> > Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive <https://

> archive.org/ <https://archive.org/>

> > details/hansholbeinyoung02cham/page/n217/mode/2up>, page 218
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/864072db-e74f-43a4-b33a-
> d7fb8c81e815n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/864072db-
> e74f-43a4- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/864072db-e74f-43a4->
> > b33a-d7fb8c81e815n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> standardebooks/602cb3dc-7ce7-491f-b472-8dbb22bd07fan%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/602cb3dc-7ce7-491f-
> b472-8dbb22bd07fan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Stephen Fenwick]

Two questions:

 - I'd like to use this image suitable for the cover. Is it suitable?

File:Hans Holbein the Younger - Jane Seymour, Queen of England - Google Art Project.jpg - Wikipedia

PD proof: Hans Holbein the younger : Chamberlain, Arthur Bensley : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, page 218

 - The book ends with this inscription:

I've converted the calligraphy to normal text, but apart from that what are the best semantics to use for this? Currently I'm using <blockquote> but that doesn't seem right.

[David]

I'm reviewing, not managing :), but a couple thoughts which Lukas can override:

1. I wouldn't be a fan of a Jane Seymour portrait for a novel about Katharine Howard...

2. As for the inscription, `blockquote` is the standard for such things (why doesn't it seem right? it's a blockquote, after all!). And note that SE does have its own CC0 blackletter font (HT: David Grigg) which you could use with it. See the titles in the corpus that use it already for code/markup.

FWIW! David / Fife, UK

[Stephen Fenwick]

The challenge with the cover is from what I've been able to find there are no authenticated portraits of Katharine Howard - and the portrait most commonly associated with her is already in use for the first book of the series.

Given the title of the book showing a Tudor queen on the cover seems a reasonable compromise - otherwise I'll probably try to find something that's Tudor period but not a recognisable individual.

I wasn't sure about using blockquote, since the text isn't actually a quote, but if that's the best approach I'll go with it. Thanks for the pointer to the blackletter font - I'll check that out.

[Vince Rice]

I’m not doing anything, just the peanut gallery, but what “things” is a blockquote the standard for? That is, what is that text quoting? Nothing that I can see, and if it’s not quoting something, then a blockquote wouldn’t be appropriate.

On Apr 9, 2026, at 4:29 AM, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm reviewing, not managing :), but a couple thoughts which Lukas can override:

[David]

Strictly speaking, I'm another peanut ... but since you mention it, blockquots are standard for quoted things. I suspect you know that already. :)

The screenshot Stephen provided us with looked very much like quoted material to me, a monument or inscription perhaps (why else the blackletter and lineation?). But no context was included. Now with context....

... it is not obvious that these closing lines are a blockquote, nor does the PG transcription have one (though it does respect the thematic break before it).

So, to answer my own question ("why doesn't it seem right?"), it's because my assumption was wrong: this appears not to be quoted material, which Stephen picked up on: "since the text isn't actually a quote". Previously he called it "an inscription". So, mea culpa! (Not for the first time, not for the last.)

On Thursday, 9 April 2026 at 17:48:30 UTC+1 Vince Rice wrote:

I’m not doing anything, just the peanut gallery, but what “things” is a blockquote the standard for? That is, what is that text quoting? Nothing that I can see, and if it’s not quoting something, then a blockquote wouldn’t be appropriate.

On Apr 9, 2026, at 4:29 AM, David wrote:

I'm reviewing, not managing :), but a couple thoughts which Lukas can override:

[Lukas Bystricky]

I agree with David about the cover. It's a bit unfortunate because as you said it is a good visual fit, but since it's known to be a portrait of a different wife of Henry's it's best to choose something else I'm afraid. Is there another prominent character you could find a portrait of? The second book in the series used a portrait of Cromwell for instance. Maybe a portrait of King Henry himself could be appropriate?

Regarding the blockquote issue, I think Vince is correct, it's not exactly quoting anything. In this case I think a <div> would be appropriate, with styling applied using CSS. 

[Stephen Fenwick]

For the cover another possibility would be Mary Tudor:

File:Anthonis Mor 001.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

PD Proof:  Antonio Moro, son œuvre et son temps : Hymans, Henri, 1836-1912 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Mary is a prominent character in the story, though younger in the book than in this portrait.

We used Cromwell in #2 of the series. I thought about using King Henry but that seems a bit off too - as if we're putting the focus on his "triumph" over Katherine or something.

[Stephen Fenwick]

Another possibility is this which is plausibly Katherine Howard:

File:Hans Holbein the Younger - Portrait of a Lady, perhaps Katherine Howard (Royal Collection).JPG - Wikimedia Commons

I initially discounted this since:

 - It's a watercolour so doesn't strictly meet SE requirements (though possibly it's close enough to an "oil painting style" to qualify?).

 - It's round so wouldn't fit neatly on a cover.

Playing with this more I could see it working with some cropping:

I could also edit it to extend the blue background out to the corners.

Let me know what you think.

I haven't investigated PD status yet.

[Emma Sweeney]

Isn't this another unauthenticated portrait of Katherine Howard?

Holbein, Hans (II) - Portrait of a lady, probably of the Cromwell Family formerly known as Catherine Howard (PD proof)

Emma

[Lukas Bystricky]

According to the notes it was originally thought to be Katherine Howard, but now is thought to be Elizabeth Seymour (this is her portrait on Wikipedia). Still maybe there's enough ambiguity that it could work? Or maybe Elizabeth Seymour is a character in the novel? Otherwise the painting with the blue background looks ok to me, especially if you can extend the background out a bit. 

[Stephen Fenwick]

I'm tending towards the Hans Holbein miniature as there's at least a plausible case that it's the right person.

PD Proof:  Hans Holbein the younger : Chamberlain, Arthur Bensley : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive (Miniature 4 on this page)

The cover would look like this:

[Lukas Bystricky]

I think that looks really good. I've added it to the DB and assigned it. I set the artist to "Workshop of Hans Holbein the Younger" to keep it consistent with the other portraits attributed to Holbein.