[Next Project] The Clever Woman of the Family by Charlotte M. Yonge

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

With Quatermain in review, I started poking around a Patron's selection: The Clever Woman of the Family (PG (1880) / HT (one novel, 1875) OR IA vol1 & IA vol 2 (1865) / No Wiki)

PG states it is using the 1880 version, HT is the 1875 version (4th ed). Originally, it was split into 2 volumes and the chapters started over (e.g. Vol 1: Ch1-14, Vol 2: 1-16), but by 1875, it had merged into one novel with Ch1-30. 

Do we go with PG one novel or keep the original volume 1&2 split?

Otherwise, epigraphs every chapter, letters, poems, and hymns; and I'll just have to go through and give italic semantics manually via scans since (as stated in the Wanted List) I think PG stripped formatting other than the no/wrap for the epigraphs, letters, poems, and hymns.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, sure. I think it makes more sense as a single novel. Please send a
link to your repo once you get started.

On 5/31/25 8:05 AM, Elizabeth Miller-Boldt wrote:
> With Quatermain in review, I started poking around a Patron's selection:

> The Clever Woman of the Family (PG <https://www.gutenberg.org/
> ebooks/3292> (1880) / HT <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/
> Record/006155732> (one novel, 1875) OR IA vol1 <https://archive.org/
> details/cleverwomanoffam01yong/page/n7/mode/2up> & IA vol 2 <https://
> archive.org/details/cleverwomanoffam02yong/page/n7/mode/2up> (1865) / No

> Wiki)
>
> PG states it is using the 1880 version, HT is the 1875 version (4th ed).
> Originally, it was split into 2 volumes and the chapters started over
> (e.g. Vol 1: Ch1-14, Vol 2: 1-16), but by 1875, it had merged into one
> novel with Ch1-30.
>
> Do we go with PG one novel or keep the original volume 1&2 split?
>
> Otherwise, epigraphs every chapter, letters, poems, and hymns; and I'll
> just have to go through and give italic semantics manually via scans
> since (as stated in the Wanted List) I think PG stripped formatting
> other than the no/wrap for the epigraphs, letters, poems, and hymns.
>

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[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Repo

• Would these be [Editorial]?

  • removing the em dashes and periods prior to formatting for epigraphs

  • changing — (one em dash) to  ⸻ (three em dashes) per 8.7.7.9.5. (it’s one em dash on PG (and in the text file), scans look like it’s three)

• A chapter is made out of multiple different letters

  • Does it change to <section id="chapter-XX" epub:type="chapter z3998:letter">

  • Do I blockquote each one individually or just blockquote the whole chapter?

• Guessing C. N. M. is a given name abbreviation but can’t find the quote attributed to anyone; search results just come up with the book itself

• Guessing S. M. is an initialism, but also cannot find a source for that either

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Vince will manage this with Robin reviewing.

On 5/31/25 1:55 PM, Elizabeth Miller-Boldt wrote:
> Repo <https://github.com/eybmv/charlotte-m-yonge_the-clever-woman-of-
> the-family>
>
> *

>
> Would these be [Editorial]?
>

> o

>
> removing the em dashes and periods prior to formatting for epigraphs
>

> o

>
> changing — (one em dash) to  ⸻ (three em dashes) per 8.7.7.9.5.

> (it’s one em dash on PG (and in the text file), scans <https://
> archive.org/details/cleverwomanoffam00yongrich/page/238/
> mode/2up>look like it’s three)
>
> *
>
> A chapter is made out of multiple different letters <https://
> babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc2.ark:/13960/t9k35zm3k&seq=400&>
>
> o

>
> Does it change to <section id="chapter-XX" epub:type="chapter
> z3998:letter">
>

> o

>
> Do I blockquote each one individually or just blockquote the
> whole chapter?
>

> *
>
> Guessing C. N. M. <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?
> id=uc2.ark:/13960/t9k35zm3k&seq=15>is a given name abbreviation but

> can’t find the quote attributed to anyone; search results just come
> up with the book itself
>

> *
>
> Guessing S. M. <https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?
> id=uc2.ark:/13960/t9k35zm3k&seq=173>is an initialism, but also

> cannot find a source for that either
>
>
> On Saturday, May 31, 2025 at 2:43:40 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, sure. I think it makes more sense as a single novel. Please send a
> link to your repo once you get started.
>
> On 5/31/25 8:05 AM, Elizabeth Miller-Boldt wrote:
> > With Quatermain in review, I started poking around a Patron's
> selection:
> > The Clever Woman of the Family (PG <https://www.gutenberg.org/
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/>
> > ebooks/3292> (1880) / HT <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/
> <https://catalog.hathitrust.org/>
> > Record/006155732> (one novel, 1875) OR IA vol1 <https://

> archive.org/ <https://archive.org/>

> > details/cleverwomanoffam01yong/page/n7/mode/2up> & IA vol 2
> <https://
> > archive.org/details/cleverwomanoffam02yong/page/n7/mode/2up

> <http://archive.org/details/cleverwomanoffam02yong/page/n7/

> mode/2up>> (1865) / No
> > Wiki)
> >
> > PG states it is using the 1880 version, HT is the 1875 version
> (4th ed).
> > Originally, it was split into 2 volumes and the chapters started
> over
> > (e.g. Vol 1: Ch1-14, Vol 2: 1-16), but by 1875, it had merged
> into one
> > novel with Ch1-30.
> >
> > Do we go with PG one novel or keep the original volume 1&2 split?
> >
> > Otherwise, epigraphs every chapter, letters, poems, and hymns;
> and I'll
> > just have to go through and give italic semantics manually via scans
> > since (as stated in the Wanted List) I think PG stripped formatting
> > other than the no/wrap for the epigraphs, letters, poems, and hymns.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/f82e9a92-ce7b-46b6-
> b9c2-1a708cc8d2e7n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f82e9a92-
> ce7b-46b6- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> f82e9a92-ce7b-46b6->
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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[Vince]

Removing what em dashes and periods? Why?

What dashes look like in scans is mostly irrelevant (they often use two-em-dashes for interruptions, etc.), it’s what they should be according to SEMoS that matters. From one kind of dash to another isn’t changing the text, just visual formatting, so it would not be editorial.

If it’s multiple letters, then every letter is its own blockquote.

The assumption for C. N. M would have to be a name, and the same for S. M. (by S. M.).

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Dashes and periods on the citation for epigraphs per 7.4.5.--on the example it looks as though the dash and the period around the cite (Chaucer) have been dropped. I was wondering if we have to detail discarding them in an Editorial remark, unless the "it's just visual formatting" also applies here

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

After a bit more digging, I think I found S.M.--I think it fits? It's apparently a French initialism for His/Her Majesty.

[Vince]

Yes it is, but there’s no reason to think a royal penned that poem. The one reference I found to it attributes it to Manella Bute Smedley, whose initials are the reverse of S.M. Where Yonge came up with “Queen Isabella” is a mystery.

On what example? You did not provide a link, and a search for “Chaucer” yields nothing in either the scans or the transcription.

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Okay, I'll change that to personal name then. Odd!

I was talking about the example in SESMoS and then wondering if I just extend that logic to all of the ones in the book. But, for example on the first epigraph, SESMoS would have me take away the dash and the period and just have <cite>Dante</cite> NOT --<cite>Dante</cite>. / My question is would I have to do a "[Editorial] Remove dash and period" or is that unnecessary because dropping the punctuation is just part of formatting and not the text itself?

[Vince]

Ahh, OK, I see. I don’t believe I’ve ever formatted doing that as editorial, but it’s probably best to make those changes in their own commit just in case.

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, is this how Ch2's epigraph would be formatted?

<blockquote epub:type="epigraph">
<p epub:type="z3998:verse"><span>“Thought is free, as sages tells us⁠—<span><br/>
<span class="i1">Free to rove, and free to soar;</span><br/>
<span>But affection lives in bondage,</span><br/>
<span class="i1">That enthrals her more and more.”</span>⁠</p>
<cite>Jean Ingelow</cite>
</blockquote>

[Vince]

The verse tag goes on the blockquote as well, and as with all verse, the p’s and br's go on their own line (see SEMoS 7.5.7 and .8).

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Ah, yes yes. I sent that before I applied the clean--all p's and br's are in their proper places!

Just in from the bizarre world of "Queen Isabel &c." -- it's most likely a reference to a book of poems (just not the real title...) that "Three Voices" is included in (one of which being "The Story of Queen Isabel", which is where the book gets the title from I imagine), the way the author's name is listed in Abe's books is S[MEDLEY], M[enella], so maybe that's just her author gimmick or something, but then on the IA scan of the poetry book it's M.S. *shrug*. 

All this to say, I'll be tagging "Queen Isabel &c." with <i epub:type="se:name.publication.book"> (because the scans have it in italics--which is why I went back down the research hole) unless you think it ought to be tagged w something else or you the evidence doesn't back it up/warrant it enough.

[Vince Rice]

Not “most likely,” is—look at the spine in the picture you sent. :) And yes, it’s a book title in whole or in part, so it gets the appropriate semantics.

On May 31, 2025, at 7:32 PM, Elizabeth Miller-Boldt <mb.eliz...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

haha, I good point. didn't look at the spine. was too busy with the bottom text lol.

• Correct and commit as [Editorial] Printer Errors or leave them?

  • In Rokeby, the verse “What could presumptuous hope inspire” has a question mark at the end; Clever Woman put in a period

  • The titlecase of “about” in Much Ado about Nothing

• The Beleaguered City is not a long poem, however it’s italicized in the scans; do I follow SESMoS in this case and put the title in quotations and give it a <span…publication.poem> tag instead of <i>?

• There doesn't seem to be any media called Knowledge and Wisdom by Tennyson. The verse is from a poem called In Memoriam which is split into sections that take roman numerals as their headings. Do I keep the original text and assume Knowledge and Wisdom is a book publication (that has In Memoriam in it) that I haven't found? Do I put the actual source (That seems like quite a big Editorial...)? Other...?

• All the chapter names contain periods at the end (except the last one which has a question mark). Do I put the periods in?

Note on XVIII epigraph, so it doesn’t get flagged for not matching with the scans. Canning and Frere are two of the authors of the book of poetry called ​​Poetry of the Anti-Jacobin, which is where the verse is from (specifically from the poem “Inscription for the Door of the Cell…”)

[Vince]

On Jun 1, 2025, at 2:55 PM, Elizabeth Miller-Boldt <mb.eliz...@gmail.com> wrote:

• Correct and commit as [Editorial] Printer Errors or leave them?
  • In Rokeby, the verse “What could presumptuous hope inspire” has a question mark at the end; Clever Woman put in a period
  • The titlecase of “about” in Much Ado about Nothing
• The Beleaguered City is not a long poem, however it’s italicized in the scans; do I follow SESMoS in this case and put the title in quotations and give it a <span…publication.poem> tag instead of <i>?
• There doesn't seem to be any media called Knowledge and Wisdom by Tennyson. The verse is from a poem called In Memoriam which is split into sections that take roman numerals as their headings. Do I keep the original text and assume Knowledge and Wisdom is a book publication (that has In Memoriam in it) that I haven't found? Do I put the actual source (That seems like quite a big Editorial...)? Other...?
• All the chapter names contain periods at the end (except the last one which has a question mark). Do I put the periods in?

Note on XVIII epigraph, so it doesn’t get flagged for not matching with the scans. Canning and Frere are two of the authors of the book of poetry called ​​Poetry of the Anti-Jacobin, which is where the verse is from (specifically from the poem “Inscription for the Door of the Cell…”)

You can leave it as is. Editors do that kind of thing all the time.

The titlecase change is changing text, so is editorial.

For this and anything else, what the scans have is immaterial if it conflicts with SEMoS. This is no different than deitalicizing a word that is in M-W. It should be quoted per SEMoS.

Re chapter titles, see SEMoS 8.1.3.

You didn’t specify what you did to make it “not match with the scans,” so I have no idea what to do with that entire paragraph.

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Ahhh whoops, sorry. Context. Canning and Frere are italicized in the scans but are just authors not a work, so I took the italics off.

What are your thoughts about what to do with #3? (citation of Knowledge and Wisdom in XXX)?

[Elizabeth Miller-Boldt]

Hey guys! I'm still here making (very) slow progress on proofreading the book.