[Next Project] Hand and Ring by Anna Katherine Green

[Cecil New]

For my next project, I’d like to work on the 4th Detective Gryce book by author Anna Katherine Green. 

• Link to SE page: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-katharine-green/hand-and-ring  

• Link to page scan: https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/ 

• Link to PG source: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681

• My github repo: TBD

Observations:

• Several illustrations that can be cut

• Diagram referred to in the text: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil

• Diagram of a house, but only implicitly mentioned in the text: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances 

[Alex Cabal]

OK, please send a link to your repo once you start!

On 5/19/26 2:44 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> For my next project, I’d like to work on the 4th Detective Gryce book by
> author Anna Katherine Green.
>

> *

>
> Link to SE page: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-katharine-

> green/hand-and-ring <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-
> katharine-green/hand-and-ring>
>
> *

>
> Link to page scan: https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/

> <https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/>
>
> *
>
> Link to PG source: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681 <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681>
>
> *

>
> My github repo: TBD
>
>
> Observations:
>

> *

>
> Several illustrations that can be cut
>

> *

>
> Diagram referred to in the text: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/
> epub/31681/pg31681-

> images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil>
>
> *

>
> Diagram of a house, but only implicitly mentioned in the text:
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-

> images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances>
>
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[Cecil New]

This hasn't happened before... have they made changes over at Project Gutenberg?

```

 se create-draft --author "Anna Katherine Green" --title "Hand and Ring" --pg-id 31681
 Error  Could download ebook metadata, but couldn’t find URL for the ebook HTML.
$

```

Will I have to capture this manually? Thought I'd ask before proceeding, since it is nice to have a lot of the metadata filled in for me.

[Alex Cabal]

Yes, it looks like their website has changed. We'll have to update the
toolset. In the meantime you can simply copy the file in by hand.

On 5/20/26 8:33 AM, Cecil New wrote:
> This hasn't happened before... have they made changes over at Project
> Gutenberg?
>
> ```
>  se create-draft --author "Anna Katherine Green" --title "Hand and
> Ring" --pg-id 31681
>  Error  Could download ebook metadata, but couldn’t find URL for the
> ebook HTML.
> $
> ```
>
> Will I have to capture this manually? Thought I'd ask before proceeding,
> since it is nice to have a lot of the metadata filled in for me.
>
> On Tuesday, May 19, 2026 at 5:01:43 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, please send a link to your repo once you start!
>
> On 5/19/26 2:44 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> > For my next project, I’d like to work on the 4th Detective Gryce
> book by
> > author Anna Katherine Green.
> >
> > *
> >
> > Link to SE page: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-

> katharine- <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-katharine->

> > green/hand-and-ring <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna-
> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anna->
> > katharine-green/hand-and-ring>
> >
> > *
> >
> > Link to page scan: https://archive.org/details/
> handring00greeuoft/ <https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/>

> > <https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/ <https://

> archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/>>
> >
> > *
> >
> > Link to PG source: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681> <https://
> > www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31681 <http://www.gutenberg.org/

> ebooks/31681>>
> >
> > *
> >
> > My github repo: TBD
> >
> >
> > Observations:
> >
> > *
> >
> > Several illustrations that can be cut
> >
> > *
> >
> > Diagram referred to in the text: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/>
> > epub/31681/pg31681-
> >

> images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=An%20hour%20spent%20with%20paper%20and%20pencil>>

> >
> > *
> >
> > Diagram of a house, but only implicitly mentioned in the text:

> > https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681- <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681->
> >
> images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_364:~:text=The%20house%2C%20as%20you%20will%20see%2C%20has%20but%20three%20entrances>>

> >
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[Cecil New]

Repo: https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katherine-green_hand-and-ring 

Thanks.

[Alex Cabal]

OK, Emma will manage with Weijia reviewing.

On 5/20/26 11:11 AM, Cecil New wrote:
> Repo: https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katherine-green_hand-and-ring
>
> Thanks.

>
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> standardebooks/21433732-d010-46d8-a0c7-91d337fdc681n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/21433732-d010-46d8-
> a0c7-91d337fdc681n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Weijia Cheng]

Ok, noted.

[Cecil New]

I see a transcriber note in the text that goes like this:

```

<p>"I don't think she'll ever come to," said one, who from his dusty coat might have been a miller. "Blows like that <ins title="Transcriber's Note: original reads 'have'nt'">haven't</ins> much let-up about them."</p>
```

Should I do anything more than simply remove it? IOW, I should not do some sort of [Editorial] commit for this?

[Alex Cabal]

Just remove that note.

It looks like you misspelled the author name here too, please correct
that and don't forget the cover image, titlepage image, and titlepage.
Thanks!

On 5/21/26 9:06 AM, Cecil New wrote:
> I see a transcriber note in the text that goes like this:
>
> ```
> <p>"I don't think she'll ever come to," said one, who from his dusty
> coat might have been a miller. "Blows like that <ins
> title="Transcriber's Note: original reads 'have'nt'">haven't</ins> much
> let-up about them."</p>
> ```
>
> Should I do anything more than simply remove it? IOW, I should not do
> some sort of [Editorial] commit for this?
>
> On Wednesday, May 20, 2026 at 1:38:00 PM UTC-4 weij...@bu.edu wrote:
>
> Ok, noted.
>
> On Wednesday, May 20, 2026 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> OK, Emma will manage with Weijia reviewing.
>
> On 5/20/26 11:11 AM, Cecil New wrote:
> > Repo: https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katherine-green_hand-

> and-ring <https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katherine-
> green_hand-and-ring>

> >
> > Thanks.
> >
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[Cecil New]

new repo link:

https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katharine-green_hand-and-ring 

[Cecil New]

In the chapter 20 header: https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/page/244/mode/2up there is some drama markup required. In this case, some lines are elided and they use a row of spaced asterisks to indicate the line(s) missing. I see examples of using `<span>...</span>` in the poetry section here, but nothing in the accompanying text is about handling skipped lines.

In the transcription they use a line of asterisks with non-breaking spaces to space them out.

How should I handle this?

[Cecil New]

Relative to preceding, here are two screenshots. The first is the transcription. The second is what I have at the moment.

[Emma Sweeney]

Use the vertical ellipsis for missing verse lines (SEMoS 7.5.7).

Emma

[Cecil New]

Thanks! Next question... Chapter 27 has a bit of drama in the header. The  line of Othello beginning with "As if..." is wrapping without indentation. Seems like it would be cleaner if it did. Have I missed some CSS that should be included or is this something that we endure?

Here are links to scan and transcription:
https://archive.org/details/handring00greeuoft/page/314/mode/2up 

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-images.html#Page_299 

And here is what I am seeing:

[Emma Sweeney]

Can you push your changes to the GitHub repository?

Emma

[Cecil New]

I'm still working in steps 7 and 8. So I'm pushing to a branch named step-7. You can switch to it to see the latest. I just pushed work I had done yesterday in chapters 28 to 35. Still a lot of work to do. Focused on cleaning up the chapter headers at present. Then I have to go thru and remove all the other stuff (mostly span elements) that the transcription has embedded.

Hope that helps.

[Emma Sweeney]

It looks like you need to add verse semantics and CSS.

Emma

[Cecil New]

I could not find any CSS for verses, per se. But after studying the CSS in the manual, I tried the below and got the result I was hoping for. Adding the verse semantic had no effect, but adding the poem semantic did. I'll go back thru all the chapters and ensure that such verse-like content has both semantics. Thanks for identifying this! 

It occurs to me that perhaps I should add z3998:verse to this  particular CSS selector. If that is preferred, let me know. Then that CSS would be:

```

[epub|type~="z3998:poem"] p > span,
[epub|type~="z3998:verse"] p > span {
display: block;
padding-left: 1em;
text-indent: -1em;
}

```

Here was my first attempt which worked. Verse semantics alone had no associated CSS, but poem semantics did.

```

<tr>
<td epub:type="z3998:persona">Othello</td>
<td epub:type="z3998:poem z3998:verse">
<p>
<span>By heav'n, he echoes me.</span>
<br/>
<span>As if there was some monster in his thought</span>
<br/>
<span>Too hideous to be shown.</span>
</p>
</td>
</tr>

```

And this shows the result I was expecting to see.

[Emma Sweeney]

Use the CSS found in SEMoS 7.5. Just change `z3998:poem` to ``z3998:verse`.

Emma

[Cecil New]

There are a couple of diagrams that need to be kept. I've been playing around with Inkscape, but so far the SVG files aren't very good. There are two sizes for the second diagram - so three files in all. I attached them in case someone else would like to try.

Are there some settings that are known to improve the quality of the SVG outputs?

[Alex Cabal]

1 should be pretty easy. Edit it in Gimp or Photoshop first to remove
dirt/smudges then trace with Inkscape.

2 will be much harder because the scan is very poor. You can try finding
a better scan, or maybe using Gimp to increase the contrast or fill in
some of the faded spots by hand so that it will trace better.

On 5/27/26 6:03 PM, Cecil New wrote:
> There are a couple of diagrams that need to be kept. I've been playing
> around with Inkscape, but so far the SVG files aren't very good. There
> are two sizes for the second diagram - so three files in all. I attached
> them in case someone else would like to try.
>
> Are there some settings that are known to improve the quality of the SVG
> outputs?
>
> On Monday, May 25, 2026 at 9:46:08 AM UTC-4 Emma Sweeney wrote:
>

> Use the CSS found in SEMoS 7.5 <https://standardebooks.org/
> manual/1.8.8/single-page#7.5>. Just change `z3998:poem` to

> ``z3998:verse`.
>
> Emma
> On Monday, May 25, 2026 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-4 ceci...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I could not find any CSS for verses, per se. But after studying
> the CSS in the manual, I tried the below and got the result I
> was hoping for. Adding the verse semantic had no effect, but
> adding the poem semantic did. I'll go back thru all the chapters
> and ensure that such verse-like content has both semantics.
> Thanks for identifying this!
>
> It occurs to me that perhaps I should add z3998:verse to this
> particular CSS selector. If that is preferred, let me know. Then
> that CSS would be:
> ```
> [epub|type~="z3998:poem"] p > span,
> [epub|type~="z3998:verse"] p > span {
> display: block;
> padding-left: 1em;
> text-indent: -1em;
> }
> ```

> *Here was my first attempt which worked. Verse semantics alone
> had no associated CSS, but poem semantics did.*
> ```

> <tr>
> <td epub:type="z3998:persona">Othello</td>
> <td epub:type="z3998:poem z3998:verse">
> <p>
> <span>By heav'n, he echoes me.</span>
> <br/>
> <span>As if there was some monster in his thought</span>
> <br/>
> <span>Too hideous to be shown.</span>
> </p>
> </td>
> </tr>
> ```

> *And this shows the result I was expecting to see.*

> page/314/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/
> handring00greeuoft/page/314/mode/2up>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/
> pg31681-images.html#Page_299 <https://
> www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681-
> images.html#Page_299>

>
> And here is what I am seeing:

> Screenshot from 2026-05-24 09-52-14.png
>
> On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 8:22:24 PM UTC-4 Emma
> Sweeney wrote:
>
> Use the vertical ellipsis for missing verse

> lines (SEMoS 7.5.7 <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single-
> page#7.5.7>).

>
> Emma
> On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 5:23:10 PM UTC-4
> ceci...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Relative to preceding, here are two
> screenshots. The first is the
> transcription. The second is what I have
> at the moment.

> Screenshot from 2026-05-22 17-19-03.png

>
> Screenshot from 2026-05-22 17-22-39.png
>
> On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 5:02:54 PM
> UTC-4 Cecil New wrote:
>
> In the chapter 20 header: https://
> archive.org/details/
> handring00greeuoft/page/244/mode/2up

> <https://archive.org/details/
> handring00greeuoft/page/244/
> mode/2up> there is some drama markup

> required. In this case, some lines
> are elided and they use a row of
> spaced asterisks to indicate the
> line(s) missing. I see examples of
> using `<span>...</span>` in the

> poetry section here <https://
> standardebooks.org/contribute/how-
> tos/how-to-structure-and-style-
> large-poetic-
> productions#:~:text=son,%3C/
> span%3E%0A%09%3Cbr/%3E-,
> %3Cspan%3E...%3C/span%3E,-%3Cbr/
> %3E%0A%09%3Cspan%3EAnd>, but nothing

> in the accompanying text is about
> handling skipped lines.
>
> In the transcription they use a line
> of asterisks with non-breaking
> spaces to space them out.
>
> How should I handle this?
>

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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Emma Sweeney]

I recommend starting with the images in the page scans.

Emma

[Cecil New]

Thanks for the tip about using the page scans for the images. I have found some much better ones. Altho, the village image remains elusive; most of the books just scan it in its folded form, so basically useless. 

At this point, I haven't been able to create a trace that satisfies me. I can't work on this anymore until I return from vacation. I'll try again late next week.

Cheers.

[Cecil New]

I spent some time on this today, trying to get an acceptable SVG. After some time tweaking and playing with Gimp and Inkscape, I have this:
https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katharine-green_hand-and-ring/blob/step-12-add-loi/src/epub/images/illustration-1.svg

This was the "easy" one. Note that both of these diagrams are supposed to be hand-drawn, pencil on paper.

Let me know if you think it needs more work. 

I'll start on the more difficult one today or tomorrow. After Thursday, I will again be out-of-pocket for a week.

[Emma Sweeney]

You'll need to delete the source image embedded in the SVG. I also recommend saving the SVG as an "optimized SVG".

Emma

[Cecil New]

After removing the source image layer, the SVG indicates a transparent background. Is that OK? Or should I add a pure white layer under it?

Also, I don't see a way to save an "optimized SVG", but I do note that the optimize option is checked in the trace bitmap panel:

Is that the same intent?

[Alex Cabal]

Yes, all SVGs should have a transparent background.

Optimized SVG is an option in the "save as" dialog.

On 6/10/26 7:42 AM, Cecil New wrote:
> After removing the source image layer, the SVG indicates a transparent
> background. Is that OK? Or should I add a pure white layer under it?
>
> Also, I don't see a way to save an "optimized SVG", but I do note that
> the optimize option is checked in the trace bitmap panel:

> Screenshot from 2026-06-10 08-40-04.png
>
>
> Is that the same intent?
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2026 at 2:48:52 PM UTC-4 Emma Sweeney wrote:
>
> You'll need to delete the source image embedded in the SVG. I also
> recommend saving the SVG as an "optimized SVG".
>
> Emma
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2026 at 1:32:31 PM UTC-4 ceci...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I spent some time on this today, trying to get an acceptable
> SVG. After some time tweaking and playing with Gimp and
> Inkscape, I have this:
> https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katharine-green_hand-and-ring/
> blob/step-12-add-loi/src/epub/images/illustration-1.svg

> <https://github.com/mandolyte/anna-katharine-green_hand-and-
> ring/blob/step-12-add-loi/src/epub/images/illustration-1.svg>

> standardebooks.org/ <https://standardebooks.org/>

> <http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/31681/pg31681->

> > images.html#Page_299>
> >
> > And here is what I am seeing:
> > Screenshot from 2026-05-24 09-52-14.png
> >
> > On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 8:22:24 PM UTC-4 Emma
> > Sweeney wrote:
> >
> > Use the vertical ellipsis for missing verse
> > lines (SEMoS 7.5.7 <https://

> > standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single- <http://

> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.8/single->
> > page#7.5.7>).
> >
> > Emma
> > On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 5:23:10 PM UTC-4
> > ceci...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Relative to preceding, here are two
> > screenshots. The first is the
> > transcription. The second is what I have
> > at the moment.
> > Screenshot from 2026-05-22 17-19-03.png
> >
> > Screenshot from 2026-05-22 17-22-39.png
> >
> > On Friday, May 22, 2026 at 5:02:54 PM
> > UTC-4 Cecil New wrote:
> >
> > In the chapter 20 header: https://

> > archive.org/details/ <http://archive.org/details/>
> > handring00greeuoft/page/244/mode/2up
> > <https://archive.org/details/ <https://
> archive.org/details/>

> > handring00greeuoft/page/244/
> > mode/2up> there is some drama markup
> > required. In this case, some lines
> > are elided and they use a row of
> > spaced asterisks to indicate the
> > line(s) missing. I see examples of
> > using `<span>...</span>` in the
> > poetry section here <https://

> > standardebooks.org/contribute/how- <http://

> standardebooks.org/contribute/how->
> > tos/how-to-structure-and-style-
> > large-poetic-
> > productions#:~:text=son,%3C/
> > span%3E%0A%09%3Cbr/%3E-,
> > %3Cspan%3E...%3C/span%3E,-%3Cbr/
> > %3E%0A%09%3Cspan%3EAnd>, but nothing
> > in the accompanying text is about
> > handling skipped lines.
> >
> > In the transcription they use a line
> > of asterisks with non-breaking
> > spaces to space them out.
> >
> > How should I handle this?
> >
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